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Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:08:00 -
[1]
Why not have an option to go "anonymous" in local chat so you can travel feely and a gate camp can't use local chat to see who just popped in system when they can't even see the dang ship?
Then people that want to talk in local can and people that want to be discreet can?
Or has this idea already bene brought up? It is SUCH and easy fix I am surprised it hasn't been done yet. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:39:00 -
[2]
It's been brought up a lot in one way or another. The main objections come not from gate campers, but from miners, mission runners, etc. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Milonia on 05/02/2007 17:43:05 Now why in the world would a mission runner or miner object to this? So they can see what pirates are in system?
You can't have it both ways. I think it is retarded to have chat be a tactical tool. And I am a missino runner. And I haul for my miner friend too. And I am in an anti-pirate corp. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
alisandent
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:27:00 -
[4]
sorry but the current system gives the advantage to the carebear. doing what you suggest would give the advantage to the ganker. A ganker enters a system, and even though cant see whos in local, it doesn't really matter, he'll just use his ways to find people in belts and such and gank them, with most likely near complete surprise.
How is the average miner supposed to know someone 'ebil' has entered his system and is systematically searching for him? use his scanner every 20 secs to see whos in system then take time to weed out whos friendly and whos not?
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske It's been brought up a lot in one way or another. The main objections come not from gate campers, but from miners, mission runners, etc.
You damn right I want to see local in lowsec, empire, 0/0, anywhere. If I can't see who's in the neighborhood, I don't need to be there. Also, I talk in local. I want them to know I'm bloody well paying attention (and occasionally they'll strike up conversation and decide to not shoot you because they are enjoying the chat).
Local= the only way I'll go somewhere folks can shoot at me. yeah they know I'm there, but that works both ways and I'm more than willing to make that trade. ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:41:00 -
[6]
Remove local chat, replace with constellation chat.
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Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske It's been brought up a lot in one way or another. The main objections come not from gate campers, but from miners, mission runners, etc.
You damn right I want to see local in lowsec, empire, 0/0, anywhere. If I can't see who's in the neighborhood, I don't need to be there. Also, I talk in local. I want them to know I'm bloody well paying attention (and occasionally they'll strike up conversation and decide to not shoot you because they are enjoying the chat).
Local= the only way I'll go somewhere folks can shoot at me. yeah they know I'm there, but that works both ways and I'm more than willing to make that trade.
If a Pirate wants to chat in local he has to turn his "anonymous" flag off so he can chat. That is more likely with a pirate being in one local system camping a gate. He might want to chat with the locals while he waits.
A hauler or mission runner might turn on local... but will probably not. Either way its not a good system.
Like I said I run missions in low sec. I use the overview to see who is near me. I run my missions in system and I get them done in plenty of time so the pirate doesn't have much time to find me before I skidattle outta there.
Miners need to NOT jetcan mine in low sec that is just plain stupid. They need to mine into thier hold and be aligned to warp to a Stargate at all times.
NO ONE should use chat as a tactical tool. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Swirled
Amarr The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Fubear Remove local chat, replace with constellation chat.
/Signed
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fubear Remove local chat, replace with constellation chat.
Speaking of which...
I haven't seen this mentioned on the forums once, but a few weeks ago when I started up the client, I had constellation chat as well as local chat. A few hours later it was gone.
Anyone else noticed this?
/Ki
Haven't got one yet? |
Corison Terell
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:48:00 -
[10]
You can turn on Const or Region on your own. You proubably changed const.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Milonia
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske It's been brought up a lot in one way or another. The main objections come not from gate campers, but from miners, mission runners, etc.
You damn right I want to see local in lowsec, empire, 0/0, anywhere. If I can't see who's in the neighborhood, I don't need to be there. Also, I talk in local. I want them to know I'm bloody well paying attention (and occasionally they'll strike up conversation and decide to not shoot you because they are enjoying the chat).
Local= the only way I'll go somewhere folks can shoot at me. yeah they know I'm there, but that works both ways and I'm more than willing to make that trade.
If a Pirate wants to chat in local he has to turn his "anonymous" flag off so he can chat. That is more likely with a pirate being in one local system camping a gate. He might want to chat with the locals while he waits.
A hauler or mission runner might turn on local... but will probably not. Either way its not a good system.
Like I said I run missions in low sec. I use the overview to see who is near me. I run my missions in system and I get them done in plenty of time so the pirate doesn't have much time to find me before I skidattle outta there.
Miners need to NOT jetcan mine in low sec that is just plain stupid. They need to mine into thier hold and be aligned to warp to a Stargate at all times.
NO ONE should use chat as a tactical tool.
You're missing the point. I am a miner, I sometimes rat lowsec, and I'm telling you right now if I can't see who's in the neighborhood I WILL NOT GO THERE. EVER. EVER. ******* EVER. Then lowseccers will gripe more because I'm damn sure not the only one, and they'd wind up with less bait then they have NOW.
Local's a catch 22 for CCP: People will ***** if you leave it, and ***** if you take it away, ironically for probably almost the exact same reason.
And I've only jetcanned in lowsec once, with a Domi miner fitted with seven stabs. I damn well meant to escape. ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ki An on 05/02/2007 18:48:29
Originally by: Corison Terell You can turn on Const or Region on your own. You proubably changed const.
I was docked. It appeared, then disappeared when I rebooted the client.
You saying Const chat already exists?
/Edit: Ok, I'm a huge noob who don't know a thing about chat-channels. Of course it exists, and it probably was something I did. Sorry 'bout the intrusion folks.
/Ki
Haven't got one yet? |
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:04:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pham Sirge on 05/02/2007 19:01:32 Hi all,
Removing people from local both helps and hinders both sides.
Pirate & Carebear: Able to hide. Not Able to determine who is out there.
The problem begins with the expected status of both, a pirate will always be in a heavy combat ship while a carebear will be in a mining barge or pve fitted ship(no match for a pvp ship).
Eve tends to be an all or nothing(digital) problem, carebears cant defend themselves while in carebear mode and pirates have trouble with carebear content(missions) while in pirate mode.
Local provides a method of solving this issue. A) 0.0 Alliances get a tool to determine enemy number and can "defend their space" because they know who is there. B) Carebears dont get ganked constantly, because they have a way to determine whos in system. C) Pirates are crying because they cant gank everyone, but they dont end up running endless belts looking for people.
Oh and Pirates if your so keen to fight when not join PA, those guys love the empire gank and provide great fireworks when they go afk at a gate.
, Pham Sirge
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Razin
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fubear Remove local chat, replace with constellation chat.
There's already a constellation chat in game. Removing portraits (and count) from Local is all that needs to be done. ...
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Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
You're missing the point. I am a miner, I sometimes rat lowsec, and I'm telling you right now if I can't see who's in the neighborhood I WILL NOT GO THERE. EVER. EVER. ******* EVER. Then lowseccers will gripe more because I'm damn sure not the only one, and they'd wind up with less bait then they have NOW.
Local's a catch 22 for CCP: People will ***** if you leave it, and ***** if you take it away, ironically for probably almost the exact same reason.
And I've only jetcanned in lowsec once, with a Domi miner fitted with seven stabs. I damn well meant to escape.
Ok well I dont know WHY you wouldn't ever go there. You have options to get away just like you listed. That is your perogative if you will never ever go there. Using chat as a tactical tool is not good game mechanics.
You sig even says you stay in empire space. So stay in high sec if you are going to be so stubborn. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pham Sirge Edited by: Pham Sirge on 05/02/2007 19:01:32 Hi all,
Removing people from local both helps and hinders both sides.
Pirate & Carebear: Able to hide. Not Able to determine who is out there.
The problem begins with the expected status of both, a pirate will always be in a heavy combat ship while a carebear will be in a mining barge or pve fitted ship(no match for a pvp ship).
Eve tends to be an all or nothing(digital) problem, carebears cant defend themselves while in carebear mode and pirates have trouble with carebear content(missions) while in pirate mode.
Local provides a method of solving this issue. A) 0.0 Alliances get a tool to determine enemy number and can "defend their space" because they know who is there. B) Carebears dont get ganked constantly, because they have a way to determine whos in system. C) Pirates are crying because they cant gank everyone, but they dont end up running endless belts looking for people.
Oh and Pirates if your so keen to fight when not join PA, those guys love the empire gank and provide great fireworks when they go afk at a gate.
, Pham Sirge
Ok well explain how showing in local chat channels without any way to block it makes sence in the EVE world with backstory and technology terms? It doesn't work at all. It is a stupid metagaming mechanic. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 05/02/2007 19:13:39
Originally by: Milonia
Like I said I run missions in low sec. I use the overview to see who is near me. I run my missions in system and I get them done in plenty of time so the pirate doesn't have much time to find me before I skidattle outta there.
Miners need to NOT jetcan mine in low sec that is just plain stupid. They need to mine into thier hold and be aligned to warp to a Stargate at all times.
Which is a good attitude to have, Local or no Local. However, it's clear that a lot of people prefer having Local instead of or in addition to having to make those adjustments.
I have mixed feelings about it. I do think EVE would be a better game on paper without it, but I'm concerned that even fewer people would venture outside of HighSec space if it were removed. Correct or not, people feel like they don't have enough options to avoid getting ganked.
So ideally I'd like to see it eliminated in its current form, but only packaged with other changes. For instance, a working bounty-hunting system, viable counters to probes outside of deadspaces, and better overall rewards in LowSec. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Fubear Remove local chat, replace with constellation chat.
Speaking of which...
I haven't seen this mentioned on the forums once, but a few weeks ago when I started up the client, I had constellation chat as well as local chat. A few hours later it was gone.
Anyone else noticed this?
/Ki
It's been appearing for me as one of the default channels when there's a new patch, when I reinstall, and possibly when I clear my cache. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Milonia
Originally by: Pham Sirge Edited by: Pham Sirge on 05/02/2007 19:01:32 Hi all,
Removing people from local both helps and hinders both sides.
Pirate & Carebear: Able to hide. Not Able to determine who is out there.
The problem begins with the expected status of both, a pirate will always be in a heavy combat ship while a carebear will be in a mining barge or pve fitted ship(no match for a pvp ship).
Eve tends to be an all or nothing(digital) problem, carebears cant defend themselves while in carebear mode and pirates have trouble with carebear content(missions) while in pirate mode.
Local provides a method of solving this issue. A) 0.0 Alliances get a tool to determine enemy number and can "defend their space" because they know who is there. B) Carebears dont get ganked constantly, because they have a way to determine whos in system. C) Pirates are crying because they cant gank everyone, but they dont end up running endless belts looking for people.
Oh and Pirates if your so keen to fight when not join PA, those guys love the empire gank and provide great fireworks when they go afk at a gate.
, Pham Sirge
Ok well explain how showing in local chat channels without any way to block it makes sence in the EVE world with backstory and technology terms? It doesn't work at all. It is a stupid metagaming mechanic.
The converse is how does Concord know you are there in Highsec? Because everyone's ship registers in a central place or they wouldn't know who's being naughty, who's being nice, etc. So, local becomes a simple extension of the fact "We know where you are, and by god eveyone around you does too."
Like I said those who complain about local don't realize there will be repercussions if it's removed, and like it or not it's the one thing keeping folks like me willing to consider a diversion into lower sec areas. Once it's gone, lowsec pirates will shortly be REALLY ****ed because they went from not enough targets to almost none at all.
Think about it from both ways is all I amm saying. It's not nearly a cut and dry issue as people want to believe. Yeah I can hide, but at the expense of not knowing if there is someone to hide from. Yeah the pirate isn't spotted the instant he arrives, but he now has to spend a bunch of time scanning and there could be absolutely no one there, he doesn't know. I actually think it would hurt missioners more than ratters and miners (provided they aren't in barges) because that deadspace gate is a huge neon sign says "TARGET RIGHT HERE" on a scan probe. ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:27:00 -
[20]
Regardless of who the current situtation benefits it is completely ridiculous that we as players can see who is in the same system by glancing at a chat box instead of using some sort of scanning device to figure out who is in your area. It ruins all immersiveness and definitely hurts any sort of tactical strategies that use stealth and quick strikes.
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
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jam6549
Amarr Iron Hammer Academy deadspace society
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Milonia
Ok well explain how showing in local chat channels without any way to block it makes sence in the EVE world with backstory and technology terms? It doesn't work at all. It is a stupid metagaming mechanic.
rofl! u do realise that the developers of this game made stuff that aint true in reality but stuck it in because it is needed? Eg your ship being on fire: it would be boring if it wasnt but they bent the rules of fire needing oxygen and let it be.
EVERYONE needs local. Carebears/mission runners/pirates watever. They all need to check local to see if there is a threat there/target there, so its vital for both sides.
Also you got 0.0 . I'm wondering, have u ever even collected intel for a fleet in 0.0 when protecting ur space? Cos if u have done, you'd know that u seriously need it. It saves u wasting precious time scanning the whole system for something that might not be there.
/ends rant DEADS 4TW |
Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 05/02/2007 19:13:39
Which is a good attitude to have, Local or no Local. However, it's clear that a lot of people prefer having Local instead of or in addition to having to make those adjustments.
I have mixed feelings about it. I do think EVE would be a better game on paper without it, but I'm concerned that even fewer people would venture outside of HighSec space if it were removed. Correct or not, people feel like they don't have enough options to avoid getting ganked.
So ideally I'd like to see it eliminated in its current form, but only packaged with other changes. For instance, a working bounty-hunting system, viable counters to probes outside of deadspaces, and better overall rewards in LowSec.
I totally agree we need to rework the bounty system.
Right now pirates need to just do some ratting to offset their pirating ways to be immune to bounty hunters that don't want to take a sec hit by firing first. Bounty hunters are really restricted in this game. ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Milonia
I totally agree we need to rework the bounty system.
Right now pirates need to just do some ratting to offset their pirating ways to be immune to bounty hunters that don't want to take a sec hit by firing first.
And that's *the least* of a pirate hunter's problems. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:53:00 -
[24]
There should always be a way of knowing that someone has either jumped into the system, or has jumped out. Whether it says in local chat that "your sensors spike from the massive flux of power required for a jump gate activation." or what have you. I don't really care where the pirate is, but its obscene (yes, obscene, not absurd) that this many centuries into the future and no one has developed some sort of long range sensors that don't require a probe.
The entire argument is one sided, really, only people that gain anything from this are those who victimize others (ala pirates). As it stands, more people benefit from the local chat than suffer from it; therefore, majority wins, end of story.
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:53:00 -
[25]
The problem is with all these "Fix local chat" threads....Is Local Chat has never been broken......Thats right it is doing just what the devs wanted it to do...except that one little bug when you see yourself as red.....But other then that nada is wrong with it.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Milonia
I totally agree we need to rework the bounty system.
Right now pirates need to just do some ratting to offset their pirating ways to be immune to bounty hunters that don't want to take a sec hit by firing first.
And that's *the least* of a pirate hunter's problems.
TBH, I always thought that it was silly to let antipirates take a sec hit for shooting the actual bad guys. Didn't make a lot of damn sense tbh. But don't let me derail the thread it was just a random thought that applied to your post.
OP, we are never gonna agree, and both sides have their fair share of people. Which is why the situation hasn't been changed tbh. If they gave me a small scanner (like the little blue looking thing from back in the Beta screenshots) that I could set to say 2 au so I knew when someone was coming (whether they were in warp or not) and ran to the side, always on? Then I wouldn't depend on local near as much. Other situations (0.0 recons watching the border of thier territories) would get screwed, but I'd get enough heads up to activate the cloak and 'hide and watch' to see what the inbound person is about. The issue I have is the scanner as it is now is so damned clunky that I need local to tell me when to use it (it freezes me for approx. 2 secs upon use). Fix that, make it capable of being used always on as a radar system, hey then we'll talk about pulling local. You gotta give me a workable alternative to it IOW, because current mechanics aren't that effective at it (at least for me). ---------
Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Hennry Fromer
Gallente TRSG Research
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Milonia
Ok well explain how showing in local chat channels without any way to block it makes sence in the EVE world with backstory and technology terms? It doesn't work at all. It is a stupid metagaming mechanic.
In all of human history no spacecraft has EVER been launched that did not announce itself in at least one of several ways from the first ping of sputnik to the multiple radios on explorer craft. Besides tracking objects in space in area used by spaceflights is not only common - those who fail to risk loosing thier craft. There is your history, technology, and backstory.
These views are not reflective of the viwes of my corp or corpmates . . . If I have failed to take my medication today they probablly aren't my views either. |
Phaige
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:57:00 -
[28]
rofl! u do realise that the developers of this game made stuff that aint true in reality but stuck it in because it is needed? Eg your ship being on fire: it would be boring if it wasnt but they bent the rules of fire needing oxygen and let it be.
Except that your ship dosen't light on fire until there is a hull breachin which case you would be venting oxeygenand the flame could burn freely as long as the hole is still there. Its the same idea as a lighter.
Disclaimer: Sorry, a bit off topic but I hate that little misconception always gets under my skin. So, to topic:
As a mission runner/miner (what can I say, I never got the combat bug) even I'd say take out the pics and count in local. Granted its a very usefull tool, but there are ways around its absence, aka probes, and it makes things to easy
You may be a King or a little street sweeper... but sooner or later you dance wi'de Reaper!! |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Roshan longshot The problem is with all these "Fix local chat" threads....Is Local Chat has never been broken......Thats right it is doing just what the devs wanted it to do...except that one little bug when you see yourself as red.....But other then that nada is wrong with it.
Actually they've said several times that they intended it mostly as a chat system (imagine that) rather than as an intel tool. Whether they do something about that though, or just go with the flow is a different story.
Although Hammer did hint in his most recent blog that they were looking at switching some of the Local intel functions over to the scanning system. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Kunming
Outcasts
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Posted - 2007.02.05 20:02:00 -
[30]
Constelation chat will result in ppl puting scouts at the edge of the next constelation to see enemy forces coming in from several jumps away.
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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