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Galveran
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:39:00 -
[1]
Ok, I don't have much knowledge of fleet PvP, and the nano issue is confusing me even more.
One tactic I would see to kill a small nanoBS fleet (20ish) would be to use 2 gangs spread 150km apart all fitted for sniping (on on the gate, the other 150km away from it, in a grouped bunch).... Each group would snipe the nanoBS orbiting the other group... with good comms, the sniping BS groups could pop the nanoBS and finish victorious (of force the others to leave the system).
Is this a valid tactic versus nanoBS ?
What other tactic could work versus them ?
Galveran
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:43:00 -
[2]
Whining on the forums constantly in hopes of getting them nerfed seems popular.
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xHalcyonx
Amarr EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:51:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile Whining on the forums constantly in hopes of getting them nerfed seems popular.
You even read the thread?
To the OP, that sounds like a viable tactic and the trasversal should be low enough to hit them, though if it is a small fleet of the nano-bs, they could potentially kill a few of the snipers they are attacking and then just warp off with nary a thought.
IMO a more viable tactic is to position some heavy hitters near a gate with 2 or 3 groups of sniper providing cover while interceptors and other such fast ships hold the offenders in place momentarily allowing the snipers as well as the heavy hitters to hit for full damage.
Just my .2 isk.
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Galveran
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Galveran on 07/02/2007 01:49:32 This was not intended as a whine, I am looking for tactics to use in 0.0 to protect some systems with my main.
Galveran
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Wompm
Rogue Method Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:53:00 -
[5]
I fly a Nano-Domi when i'm in my snake clone- 11kms in the right gang is a scary thing. I've spent plenty on the ship... more than I should, and expect it to be quite good for the price. Thing is if you spend a fraction of the cost you can easily toast a nano-ship:
Hugin or Rapier: most reliable, most Nano pilots will simply leave the system if one of these show up. I know I do. Any BS with a couple officer webs- while very expensive they still don't compare to building a Snake-Implanted faction Nano-ship. Yes frequently the Nano ship will just coast out of web range... so think a bit. Don't slam on the web at the beginning of the fight. Wait till the guy orbits, then web him and approach. Multiple Nos- Wipe out his cap, with BS's you can easily tank a nano ship till its out of cap. If he happens to have faction NOS, space you and your friend out a tad, and take turns sucking when he is in range. With the domi- kill its drones and it is done Use Sensor damps, a celestis can kill the range on a nano BS that is fit to attack at 25+km without too much trouble. Even tho I run a sensor booster 3-4 Phased muons and your range is poo. Run him into a station, or gate, or roid... you get it. Point is if you are aligned and you make him get out of his scram range you can leave any time.
I find the Nano threads funny- sure they may take some thought to take down, but it doesn't take a huge gang to do it, nor a huge investment. Sure this form of pvp may be nerfed soon, but keep in mind if you pop a nano bs your costing the guy between 300mil (for poo) and upwards of 1.3bil... This game is all about tactics, there are few you can use. Enjoy.
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Sebmagic
Caldari In Articulo Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:55:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Sebmagic on 07/02/2007 01:52:10 I want to know more as well... really interesting.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.02.07 01:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: xHalcyonx You even read the thread?
Yes I did. The OP wanted tactics to counter nano-battleships, and so far the most popular tactic is forum whining to get them nerfed. If it eventually results in the nano-battleship phenomena getting nerfed then it will have proven to be an excellent counter-tactic. If they aren't eventually nerfed then it won't be a good counter-tactic.
Regardless, forum whining is a tactic that could work versus nano-battleships which is exactly what the OP asked for.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Galveran Ok, I don't have much knowledge of fleet PvP, and the nano issue is confusing me even more.
They're not really used in fleets much, they're mostly skirmish weapons right now. Largely due to an un-sensorboosted nano-BS easily dropping out of range while not using automatic orbit (and being easy to kill while using it).
In skirmish-sized engagements, they're generally rather easy to kill in any fight they stay comitted to. The reason for their long lifetime is cautious play (like many other ships, when deciding not to aggress or not aggress before an aggro split they have a wide variety of ways to escape), and enormous amount of people unwilling to spend 80m for an interceptor to kill 0.5b ships, terrible spatial awareness and communication, dimwit commanders and really subpar Huginn/Rapier setups and pilots.
Nobody will of course even come close to admitting this, because if something in EvE is a rule then it is that you are perfect and the game is at fault. ;)
Addendum : If they were to be used fleet-like the way you describe, yeah getting into sniping range is the easiest thing to do as they pop incredibly quickly in that case. Realistically speaking also just engaging with your own ubertacklers at any range and hosing them down works just fine, they can't realistically lock/kill them fast enough while closing range to end up winning the engagement. There's a good few reasons it's not done alot, other than unwillingness to change.
Sidetrack / threadjacking : Honestly, I enjoy it and there is nothing terribly wrong with them as you might have gleamed from that subtle bias up there. Rigs/FG snakes/Istabs on the other hand are a bit over the top and could do with some downward adjustment, and possibly / certainly a 30% tracking boost for shortrange BS turrets across the board to compensate for Revelations speed increases. Other turret sizes don't need this as tracking is not a major issue there, and smaller ships still have a factor of 3.5 - 13 working in favor of them, so that a 30% tracking adjustment to shortrange really doesn't hit them very hard.
If it is considered an issue anyway, might as well boost Cruiser speeds across the board. They need a bit of love anyway (signature radius in the case of the Vagabond, if you're worried about that).
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Skankarella
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
Originally by: xHalcyonx You even read the thread?
Yes I did. The OP wanted tactics to counter nano-battleships, and so far the most popular tactic is forum whining to get them nerfed. If it eventually results in the nano-battleship phenomena getting nerfed then it will have proven to be an excellent counter-tactic. If they aren't eventually nerfed then it won't be a good counter-tactic.
Regardless, forum whining is a tactic that could work versus nano-battleships which is exactly what the OP asked for.
lol... the scary truth.
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kublai
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:22:00 -
[10]
I'm training matar cruiser V atm (have recon IV already and fly amarr recons regularly).
I cannot wait until some nano punk comes into the grid of our gang :D
"triple webbed, target painted - BOOM HULLSHOT"
He wont even have time to whack CTRL-Q baby.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:37:00 -
[11]
wait for them to get nurfed. It is goingg to happen, it should happen, and I look forward to it happening. Just because its unnatural for a BB to move that fast, with all that agility. Speed is one thing, speed and agility is a wholly different can of worms.
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Montero
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:39:00 -
[12]
3 steps
1 huggin 2 web 3 profit
---------
Scrapheap Challenge
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.02.07 03:01:00 -
[13]
Step 1: Find and hidden Deadspace Signature with an exploration probe.
Step 2: Use it as a safespot.
Step 3: get scanned out
Step 4: WTFPWN the nano battleship because MWD's dont work here and they ALWAYSE warp in at the same spot (just like how you alwayse go to the 1st Deadspace gate if you warp inside a deadspace complex)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:14:00 -
[14]
Step #3 might be a bit difficult since it is a lot more difficult to scan down targets in deadspace pockets than in normal space. When they need 10 times to find you they might get suspicious...
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Montero 3 steps
1 huggin 2 web 3 profit
Yep, they go down fast if they can't run away. I'll be the first to admit that seeing a domi do 5.5km/sec makes me wonder if nanos should have stacking though.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Skraelingz
Gallente Gallente Federal Bank Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:45:00 -
[16]
Would carrier fighters be a good counter? -----------------------------------------------
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Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 07/02/2007 02:06:24
Originally by: Galveran Ok, I don't have much knowledge of fleet PvP, and the nano issue is confusing me even more.
They're not really used in fleets much, they're mostly skirmish weapons right now. Largely due to an un-sensorboosted nano-BS easily dropping out of range while not using automatic orbit (and being easy to kill while using it).
In skirmish-sized engagements, they're generally rather easy to kill in any fight they stay comitted to. The reason for their long lifetime is cautious play (like many other ships, when deciding not to aggress or not aggress before an aggro split they have a wide variety of ways to escape), and enormous amount of people unwilling to spend 80m for an interceptor to kill 0.5b ships, terrible spatial awareness and communication, dimwit commanders and really subpar Huginn/Rapier setups and pilots.
QFT... an excellent post. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2007.02.07 07:05:00 -
[18]
best is a huginn + arazu combo (web+scram)
Or just get a sniper and warp back in @ 150km shouldn't have too much trouble hitting him
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Tomsudy
Minmatar BloodThirsters Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.07 07:48:00 -
[19]
A curse ________________________________________ THTA |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:01:00 -
[20]
Any recon ship will do nice in (partially) disabling it. And to the guy who posted 'whine on forums', please go somewhere else and enjoy the rest of your life. No need to spoil a genuine inquisitive thread with off-topic and slightly edging to you not-operating-at-100%-mental-capacity-by-the-time-of-posting remarks.
Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety) |
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Killer Dragon
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Skraelingz Would carrier fighters be a good counter?
No, they are too slow.
I would personally use a raven and cruise missiles. Even my furys can hit a nano bs aslong as there not over 5km/s.
Anything higher than that precision cruise will do it.
Just make sure you have 2 heavy nos + cap injector on... To balanace the 4 nos the nano ship will probally have.
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Kay Rissa
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:30:00 -
[22]
curse
lol
whoever said that, m8 u dont have a f...g clue...
highgrade snake curse can move up to 5 k/s... lg nanodomi can easily go quicker that that.
u will endup with a nanodomi, on top of u, webbed, scrambled and his 5 ogres t2 ripping u appart in 5 seconds
If u dont believe, i can come to u and explain u that.
Proud member of the Priory
ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.07 08:42:00 -
[23]
We've had some success by just modifying standard tactics.
Snipers in the middle with EW support with them, tacklers spread out about 40km between them in kind of a globe around it to about 150km from the centre.
The nanoBS will usually target the ships in the middle, since they are the expensive ones, while they are always in scram range from some of the tacklers and never outside the effective range of the snipers and EW.
It worked rather well in 20 vs 20, as in we came out ahead, don't know if it works in larger groups. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 09:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Laboratus We've had some success by just modifying standard tactics.
Snipers in the middle with EW support with them, tacklers spread out about 40km between them in kind of a globe around it to about 150km from the centre.
The nanoBS will usually target the ships in the middle, since they are the expensive ones, while they are always in scram range from some of the tacklers and never outside the effective range of the snipers and EW.
It worked rather well in 20 vs 20, as in we came out ahead, don't know if it works in larger groups.
That seems a good tactical positioning, and one of the very first good examples of FLEET DEPLOYMENT i ever heard of in eve (no commonf sniping fleets dont have any meaningfull fleet deployment complexity).
Problem is
I sa nanophoon get in your system to anoy and disrupt your miners.... how you can make it go away? That is very very hard to do.
Until now very few options are avaiulable. HUggings and rapiers wont do the trick!! a nanophoon will never ever get under 100 km of one of those! Its very good to keep the fleet safe form it.. but wont solve all the problem.
A group of BS with neuteres might do he trick but need a bit of luck on the timing.
Best bet is still a heavy tackler (that can survive the nos long enough to make the nanobs stop) so the Vagabond is the choice ( with the fleet stabber not far behind, since both can easily reach same speed of a high grade nanophoon... without using any snakes for it (just 3 rigs and a faction MWD will do the trick).
a few other ships can engage them and make them go away. Like a munin or autopest with dual 425 and track computers (missiles are the last thing you wanna use on a nanophoon.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2007.02.07 10:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sokratesz guy who posted 'whine on forums' .. to spoil a genuine inquisitive thread
I parsed his post as a compliment to the OP, and slander against general tactic used in other threads (whining instead of thinking). And sadly, his advice was very correct one.
My personal general feelings on nano-Battleships are something like: - They've brought lot of fresh air to standard 3 year old fleet combat models - People are still adapting, so might be a bit early to say if they are too inbalancing (at the moment would say yes)
Based on my limited experience on small nano gangs: - They are very effective against sniper based unprepared gangs - The tempo of battles is greatly increased: fleet commanders have more demanding job, and mistakes (like a lone BS 100km from main fleet) are exploited quickly.
Hence as general theme for efficient small fleet (to work against regular and nano gangs): - Change from long range setups to short-medium range, high tracking DPS ships - Medium size cluster formats: fleet concentrated in swarm of say 20km diameter (ships mostly in range of each other, but at least some of them have good transversals against any hostile)
- Fleet could benefit from a Huginn, but against lone nanoships would suggest something a bit more unpredictable bait, like double-triple webbing regular hac/bs.
-Lasse nanopilot in training
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.07 11:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Until now very few options are avaiulable. HUggings and rapiers wont do the trick!! a nanophoon will never ever get under 100 km of one of those!
Well, tecnically a rapier could work because it can cloak. If the nanobs is very careful it should still be able to move away as soon as it sees something else in the belt, but it's still the best option. If it does not pay attention in the wrong 5 seconds it is toast.
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Galveran
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Posted - 2007.02.07 11:55:00 -
[27]
Wow, a lot of good comments and tactics.
By the look of this, would this new engagement distance be the prequel to the desired changes in fleet warfare and wing//fleet battles ?
By the way, keep the tactics and experiences coming.
Galveran
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.07 12:22:00 -
[28]
A nanoship will always try to dictate range. Imagine what would happen if one was approaching your fleet, from 100km out, with MWD on, and you happened to have a few tempests / geddons around....
They wont fall for that. They will flee, jump or warp off.
Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety) |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.07 12:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Problem is
I sa nanophoon get in your system to anoy and disrupt your miners.... how you can make it go away? That is very very hard to do.
Until now very few options are avaiulable. HUggings and rapiers wont do the trick!! a nanophoon will never ever get under 100 km of one of those! Its very good to keep the fleet safe form it.. but wont solve all the problem.
A group of BS with neuteres might do he trick but need a bit of luck on the timing.
Best bet is still a heavy tackler (that can survive the nos long enough to make the nanobs stop) so the Vagabond is the choice ( with the fleet stabber not far behind, since both can easily reach same speed of a high grade nanophoon... without using any snakes for it (just 3 rigs and a faction MWD will do the trick).
a few other ships can engage them and make them go away. Like a munin or autopest with dual 425 and track computers (missiles are the last thing you wanna use on a nanophoon.
Hmm... I've never actually tried this on nanogroups (not too many around), but it works quite well against traditional groups. Spam bubbles around the gate. Get a 100km+ bubble hell around the gate. This will not enable you to get rid of all of them, unfortunately, but you will be able to cut through quite a few before the rest get out. This will absolutely p*** off any friendly haulers, but if the objective is to protect an op, they just will have to make due... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Kunming
Outcasts
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Posted - 2007.02.07 12:40:00 -
[30]
apoc or moros
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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