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Citizen Smif
Traumark Shadow Elite H Y E N A
32
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello, this thread is based on the premis that missions are incredibly boring, monotomous and just a generally empty task. So if you don't agree feel free to agitate or troll away, you won't harvest my tears
Anyway I digress.. Missions are very boring. Its just a horribly slow process of drifting across the room to the next acceleration gate and clicking maybe 2 different modules. It's not at all a rewarding form of PvE and probably one of the most underdeveloped of any MMO I've played. The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do. With this in mind what would you do to make them more rewarding gameplay? Or do you actually like missions the way they are, if so why?
The problems imo:
Boring gameplay No risk Repetitive and grindy
The pros:
Reasonably good income Safe Low SP entry point
Feel free to add to that if you want..
My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions. I find incursions fairly enjoyable because they're very short and (would be) tough in a weaker fleet.. but like most things they are very easy with a decent FC, logi and shiny ships. Not to mention the teamplay is much more satisfying than solo grind.
Anyway, I would nerf bounties slightly (-10/15% perhaps) and increase the likelihood of getting worthwhile loot: this will give the missions a randomness to them. Also perhaps create a few worthwhile storylines or an easier task would just be to create regional/racial themes to missions (this already exists to a point but is underdeveloped.) And most of all create far more missions! It's appalling how few missions there are in almost 10 years of the game being out.. but i suppose with missions in their current state there isn't much incentive to do so.
Thoughts? |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let the agent give mission from the complete pool. Make missions more unpredictable. Create more missions. |
Maureen Biologist
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
making an agent take from the entire pool would be good for mixing it up.
my current agent is freaking awesome, but thats because she literally only gives me about 8 different missions, including WC, AE, recon and a few other awesome ones.
part of me would like to see more missions offered. part of me likes that she gives me the most awesome selection of missiony goodness |
stoicfaux
416
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Randomly generated missions. The main reason missions are "easy" is because they're predictable. If every mission had the possibility of a 'Stop the Thief' type ambush (suddenly get hot-dropped by a swarm of webbing/scramming frigates,) you would see more people trading gank for actual tank, thus lowering DPS, thus lowering the speed at which missions are run.
Sleeper AI, fewer ships, and encouraging PvP style fits are always peachy ideas.
Fewer ships would also mean less bounties, less loot and less salvage. Faster missions would probably mean less LP gains. This would reduce the effects of the level 4 isk/mineral/salvage faucets, and could have an amusingly drastic effect on the economy. It also might encourage more cooperation between industrialists, miners, and combat pilots.
You can tell me what is and isn't true when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Ayianapa
C-Tech Developments
4
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Posted - 2011.12.16 23:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would completely scrap all current missions and rewrite the lot from a PvP fit point of view with new Ai.
this won't happen as people have become incredibly accepting of CCP barely working on their game and lauding an expansion that has in their own words a few weeks work in it. |
Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
18
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Posted - 2011.12.17 05:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Speaking of the lower end (level 1-4) missions, I would make a mechanic that scales enemy strength according to the number or size of a fleet (go by total mass maybe?). You could perhaps do away with the mission level system entirely that way.
This is to make those missions a FLEET operation. But still be able to be solo'd, which I believe is important especially to new players not 'in the know' or with people to help them out. All types of missions would work this way, so for example a Distribution mission being run solo would have a smaller cargo size and likely weak or no rats as resistence during the mission- but a fleet might have a cargo requiring more than one ship to move, possibly a gauntlet to run in deadspace with stronger NPC's if you enter as a fleet or in larger ship classes.
Level 5 missions and Incursions (essentially level 5+ missions) already favor or require fleets, dedicated roles, and high end fittings meaning that new players aren't really within their scope.
Low SP toons are stuck with boring, way too easy or way too hard solo missions. Where max tank and DPS is all that matters, tactics rarely matter beyond orbit at optimal, EW is rarely better than another DPS mod to clear NPCs, and fitting to kill specific NPCs means zero challenge, zero 'practice' for PvP, and zero respect from most other career paths in Eve. Yes, you can take a fleet into missions, but it's simply not worth it for low end missions- they are too easy to get useful gang practice, and dont pay out enough to make it worth it to form up fleets, run an op-- for a mission a solo ship will finish in 10 minutes anyway....
The often strong difference between fitting requirements for PvE and PvP means new players are forced to choose between them for some time- usually ending up with PvE which they at least have a chance of survival with. But it breeds care bears. I know it's heresy to say here- but bear with me- I have to give credit to WoW for their Dungeon Finder tool (I haven't played in years but did when that feature was introduced) for making the MM part of MMO very easy to access on short notice, and with little commitment beyond that one instance.
I would tie the Fleet Finder into mission running, make it safe to form fleets (no remote rep scams by losers picking on newbies for jollies) with strangers, and make it easy to team people up together on a more or less equal footing. Not the arena combat Eve players are so loathe to speak of (and I agree), but somewhere that T1 gear looted from missions (whatever meta level) is as viable as fittings that cost 200x the cost of the hull. There newbs could learn how to PvP before being tossed into low sec with a grip of countdown timers, aggression rules, remember not to warp out to gates, etc etc etc... I know there is a point of pride in hanging in there for that famously steep Eve learning curve-- but then don't complain that people are so hesitant to even dip a toe into low or null sec. For me, missions should all give a chance for solid training for PvP. The current structure may do that for the highest end of missioning, but you really need to grab players early on or they (like me) end up spending WAY too long care bearing. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
355
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do.
To solve the problem of L4 missions being many people's sole income source, those people should explore alternatives. Making missions more interesting is not going to stop people wasting time on missions.
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mingetek
Obsidian Innovations
21
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
make anti faction missiosn available to anyone whom wants them and. remove sec increase from all misisons. .. |
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
17
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Posted - 2011.12.18 08:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
More missions would definitively help in the short term. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
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Posted - 2011.12.18 09:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I would not change them to much becouse low sp skill pilots and new players need this to both build up some isk in EVE and as something to fall back on.
I how ever would make wider broad sweaping changes to NPC's and remove loot drops and replace them with 1 run bpc's.
I would not change rouge drones or Drone goo. If a person likes to mine at the end of a Mega Pulse Lazer reather then a Mining Lazer or striper I realy dont have a problem with that.
I both like and dislike the ideal of pulling from the hole mission database. It's going to make it much harder on the new players trying to just learn there own races ships and it's going to cut the isk making of older players that have worked hard to find good mission giving NPC's.
I would fully like to see all missions revamped and more new missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet added to the game.
A even better option is to have 1 NPC agent offer you 3 or more missions to pick from every time once you hit 8+ standing with that agent.
But my ideals have never been very popular. |
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FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Perkone Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 12:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would do this,
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=447786#post447786 |
Sellendis
The Ares project
32
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Posted - 2011.12.18 14:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
mingetek wrote:make anti faction missiosn available to anyone whom wants them and. remove sec increase from all misisons.
also pooling missiosn is bad..
if missiosn are pooled for everyone to pick from you are gonna get assholes like me wh get 10 alts... get 10 enemies abound.. and farms them all week..
having a pool of missions for everyone to pick and shoose from is bad.
Well, so what? If you take E-Abound or WC multiple times, the payoff value and bounty's drop, after some time you would get more from Duo of Death. That is one way to prevent same mission farming that could be implemented. |
Exploited Engineer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.12.18 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions.
Replacing cannon fodder with actual challenge - definitely seconded.
I'd make NPC ships work a bit more like player ships, too (e.g. projectile-toting NPC ships may swap out ammo for something the players ship is vulnerable to). Make EWAR (other than target painters) useful in missions. Maybe even add the necessity to point some (high-bounty or equipped with good modules) NPC ships before they warp off.
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Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
9
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
I find this amazing that the missions haven't gotten any attention... since, forever. And it has since the dawn of time, been horrible.
And it's probably the thing most players in EVE pass their time with. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
20
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Posted - 2011.12.18 22:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would attempt to completely redo and improve missions and faction war together. Make Empire Space High and Low, and NPC Nullsec really come alive in terms of the NPC factions and the struggles and wars between them. Integrate players into this story so your not just repetitively grinding mission LPs and ISK your forwarding the interests of the Corporations and Factions your running missions with and impacting the the game world as a whole. ..and yes putting yourself in conflict with other players aligned with opposing NPC factions/corps.
Also your standings to NPC Corps and Factions should not be trivial, and should have a real impact on your interactions with NPCs.
Ideas of making NPC AI better and blurring the line between optimized PvE and PvP fits are good too.
And Bigger ship shouldn't always be the best ship to use. |
Mr Jack Black
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.12.21 16:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:Let the agent give mission from the complete pool. Make missions more unpredictable. Create more missions.
This pretty much sums it up. More missions would be fan.freagn.tastic. I like running missions, they are my main source of income and all MMO's work this way. Grind missions to obtain upgrades! Increasing difficulty would almost require increasing payout of the mission, or pilots wont "grind" them. Adding more can mean adding more difficulty, dont mess with the current ones. New missions mean more happy players which means more low and hi sec pilots in the grand scheme.
1. More missions 2. More missions 3. More missions
Im Mr Jack Black and I endorse this message.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
238
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 16:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote:Hello, this thread is based on the premis that missions are incredibly boring, monotomous and just a generally empty task. So if you don't agree feel free to agitate or troll away, you won't harvest my tears Anyway I digress.. Missions are very boring. Its just a horribly slow process of drifting across the room to the next acceleration gate and clicking maybe 2 different modules. It's not at all a rewarding form of PvE and probably one of the most underdeveloped of any MMO I've played. The problem is: for a lot of people lvl 4 missions are their entire income so messing around with them is something that CCP seems to be incredibly hesitant to do. With this in mind what would you do to make them more rewarding gameplay? Or do you actually like missions the way they are, if so why? The problems imo: Boring gameplay No risk Repetitive and grindy The pros: Reasonably good income Safe Low SP entry point Feel free to add to that if you want.. My idea is to perhaps make missions more unique by lowering the amount of ships, buffing them and giving them better AI (like a weaker sleeper AI) and have them more as short encounters than long-winded missions. I find incursions fairly enjoyable because they're very short and (would be) tough in a weaker fleet.. but like most things they are very easy with a decent FC, logi and shiny ships. Not to mention the teamplay is much more satisfying than solo grind. Anyway, I would nerf bounties slightly (-10/15% perhaps) and increase the likelihood of getting worthwhile loot: this will give the missions a randomness to them. Also perhaps create a few worthwhile storylines or an easier task would just be to create regional/racial themes to missions (this already exists to a point but is underdeveloped.) And most of all create far more missions! It's appalling how few missions there are in almost 10 years of the game being out.. but i suppose with missions in their current state there isn't much incentive to do so. Thoughts?
This thread should have been posted in 'Features and Ideas' sub forum channel. After working out the ideas so there isn't any game breakers or exploits, then post it in the 'Assembly Hall' sub forum channel where other players can show support if they like it. Actually, there's probably a few threads like that already.
CCP already has a lot on their plate and before changing content that already works just fine, they need to fix a lot of other things first. Since missions are so boring for you, then don't do them. Plain and simple. Obviously it's too much trouble for you to think outside the box and make it fun and exciting. Guess it never occurred to you to mix things up a bit.
If you want a challenge, try doing high lv missions in a small ship.
If you want risk, go do missions in low sec systems.
If you want to incorporate PvP aspect with PvE mission, go do Factional Warfare.
If you want to do PvE Fleet action, go do level 5 missions or Sansha Incursions.
If you want advanced NPC AI, go jump into some worm-holes.
No to changing the current bounty.
No to changing the agents current mission pool.
No to decreasing the current amount of npc's.
Actually, pretty much no, nO, NO to almost everything.
There are a few items I would agree with though, such as adding some new missions and a couple of new agent divisions. One Division that gives a random mix of all mission types and another Division that only gives Anti-Faction missions..Other than that, if you want regional/racial themes, go try Cosmos missions.
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Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
16
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Acceleration gates that *require* modules: Warp Scrambler or Warp Distuptor & Stasis Web. NPC's who will pod-kill, and deal substationally more serious DPS, - yet not so much that 1 player can not complete them. Incursion/Sleeper AI-Lite. Soloable small numbers of npc.
Similiar rewards as per current L1-5 missions.
NPC Tears in local. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
289
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lvl 4 missions that have a frigate/cruiser limitation (no T3). |
Velarra
Ghost Festival Naraka.
16
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Lvl 4 missions that have a frigate/cruiser limitation (no T3).
Try running L4's in NPC 0.0 for environment forced size limits. The T3? Pop them on Gates & undock.It's at worst a shame too many of the hard-to-probe are mostly T2/meta4 fit.
The unfortunate issue is that pvp fit ships can't casually fly pve missions, while conversely pve ships are great fun to hunt down in pvp fit ships.
There's something to be said for casual single player flyable missions. Their only problem is that they teach/require PVE fits that are incompatible with the rest of eve's PVP fittings & related activities. |
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
12
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Posted - 2011.12.23 00:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
L4 missions should have more mixed rats like the Dread Pirate Scarlet one forcing players to omni tank. That would make them more difficult (not much of a problem since missions are usually boringly easy anyway), but also more interesting, especially if there would be a certain random element in the composition of the rats so players will never be absolutely sure what to exspect. Unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
Sandrestal
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 13:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd like to see some really really good easter eggs inserted into missions but only very rarely. The high valued finds, whether high end ore roids/implants/mods, should be found in any mission...not just a select few. Something similar to ratting in null sec. Every now anf then you get a good faction spawn or a officer spawn. The idea being the chance of a expensive drop being found, no matter what the mission, lends a certain ambiance akin to searching for a diamond deposit or looking for spanish galleons. Knowing the next mission could be the big one would certainly make missions something to look forward to do. |
Berluth Luthian
14th Legion Sanctuary Pact
0
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Posted - 2011.12.23 16:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
You could do some creative stuff, still.
Some missions could be more 'puzzle like' with a labyrinth of acceleration gates but a juicier ending worth the hunt.
Some missions could literally require a race to completion because you would be alerted that "Capsuleer X" has been contracted by your employer to complete this task, which would enable you to legally engage them in high sec for so many minutes. Only one of you could complete the mission due to the objectives.
You could make more things change mid mission with hints in local. You would hear things like, "boy i'm glad we have moved our mining ops a few jumps from Frarn!" Which would force you to look around for the encounter deadspace, but even then there could be multiple faux deadspace pockets that weren't what you wanted.
You could have NPCs that you had to say special key words to in local or other NPCs you had to hear key information from.
Missions with friendly NPCs that you had to aid, protect, support, etc would add a layer of difficulty/ tactics/ thought, that aren't normally in missions.
NPC's could drop 'keys' to deadspace which would act like agent mission bookmarks.
Basically, you could have suprises still that aren't as archivable mechanics wise, but put enough of an interesting spin on things and still could be programmable and easily randomized. |
Fast300ZX
HotRock Mining PLC
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 19:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Missions definitely are due for a bit of improvement. I would like to not only see a greater variety of missions for each faction, but also I'd like to see greater detail involved with each mission, and events within said missions that make things exciting. Phenomena such as magnetic storms (which affect max velocity, missile velocity, ect.), plasma clouds (which light up as explosions occur near them dealing additional damage to any nearby ships), Asteroid fields with hit detection based on LOS (so that you can put something between you and your foe to avoid getting hit in a pinch), black holes created by doomsday devices made by the NPC factions (where you and everything in the room would slowly be pulled towards the event horizon as you try to accelerate in the opposite direction while trying to beat the clock by firing on the blackhole generating weapon, ect. These things should be included in various missions as well as the plots redone, made more convincing and dire, and more plots overall for added variety. I could come up with 5 or 6 extraordinarily epic space missions for pilots of all skill levels right off the top of my head so I'm sure the great minds of CCP could expound greatly upon the missions if they chose to. Let me also suggest this: Missions in which you can get in the middle of an NPC battle. For instance, you arrive on grid after accepting a mission to find two dueling fleets, Ammar vs. Republic Fleet for instance. The odds are in favor of your factions opposition, so you have to make the difference (you would only gain bounty for ships you personally destroyed ect.). Eve has the potential to grow and be improved indefinitely, and CCP has always rewarded Eve players with free updates and new content continually, so I have great faith that one day missions will see the improvements that Eve players deserve. |
Ooda
London Elektricity
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 21:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:
I have to give credit to WoW for their Dungeon Finder tool (I haven't played in years but did when that feature was introduced) for making the MM part of MMO very easy to access on short notice, and with little commitment beyond that one instance.
I would never, EVER use a Dungeon finder tool in EvE.. NEVER ever.. If I want to loose my ship, I would rather self-destruct it, no need for random fags while my raven tanks at it's limit.. |
Sandrestal
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 22:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Fast300ZX wrote: , black holes created by doomsday devices made by the NPC factions (where you and everything in the room would slowly be pulled towards the event horizon as you try to accelerate in the opposite direction while trying to beat the clock by firing on the blackhole generating weapon, ect.
Kinda like Black Shark missiles in Descent
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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
395
|
Posted - 2011.12.23 23:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
There are two types of PvE in this game 1. Missions/Ratting, Boring, Monotonous, but steady income 2. Exploration, More Exciting, Random, Income varies on your luck 3. Incursions, ISK fountains, NERF THEM! 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.24 00:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Berluth Luthian wrote:You could do some creative stuff, still.
Some missions could be more 'puzzle like' with a labyrinth of acceleration gates but a juicier ending worth the hunt.
Some missions could literally require a race to completion because you would be alerted that "Capsuleer X" has been contracted by your employer to complete this task, which would enable you to legally engage them in high sec for so many minutes. Only one of you could complete the mission due to the objectives.
You could make more things change mid mission with hints in local. You would hear things like, "boy i'm glad we have moved our mining ops a few jumps from Frarn!" Which would force you to look around for the encounter deadspace, but even then there could be multiple faux deadspace pockets that weren't what you wanted.
You could have NPCs that you had to say special key words to in local or other NPCs you had to hear key information from.
Missions with friendly NPCs that you had to aid, protect, support, etc would add a layer of difficulty/ tactics/ thought, that aren't normally in missions.
NPC's could drop 'keys' to deadspace which would act like agent mission bookmarks.
Basically, you could have suprises still that aren't as archivable mechanics wise, but put enough of an interesting spin on things and still could be programmable and easily randomized.
Actually these are very good ideas, except for the competition thing with Capsuleer X.
In fact, I think the Epic Arcs were supposed to be like that but ended up falling way short of the mark. |
Kietay Ayari
Rogue Elements.
86
|
Posted - 2011.12.25 02:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Citizen Smif wrote: It's not at all a rewarding form of PvE and probably one of the most underdeveloped of any MMO I've played.
What other MMO have you played where the standard grind was at all challenging or developed? The only difference is in EVE you grind for money (if you actually do missions and not one of the many other ways to make money) and not skill points.
Anyways my point is there are actually lots of PvE things to do in EVE that require a challenge. Missions are for the really simple that don't want that. I'm sure people already realize this since one of the most common suggestions is give mission NPCs sleeper AI. Well why not just go fight sleepers? o_o Ferox #1 |
Vito Tattaglia
New Paradigm Inc.
2
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Posted - 2011.12.25 03:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Make agents choose from an entire pool. Grinding the same 4 Level 3 missions from a single agent for LP gets incredibly boring. |
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