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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:08:00 -
[1]
A while back, when Invention was launched i wrote a few threads asking CCP to look at invention, and fix the problems with it.
The main problem being that a few compoenents needed for the builds were simply dropping at a rate of 1 or 2 a day lol, and that the building reqs for the Interfaces was insanely high, and that the datacores were over priced due to the high rp price and max trade of 4 a day...
So they took a look at invention, and....
What on gods earth have you done?
The interfaces are RIDICULOUSLY easy to get, being sold on market for a few hundred million now...
With the increased demand the Datacore prices have RISEN, not dropped, which wouldnt of been the worse result if you hadnt CHANGED THE NUMBER OF RUNS per job.
Success rate with best success decryptors and skills at lvl 4 is about 60-70%, isk wastage is high, and now with new "improved" low run count from the succesful jobs, the swing in tech 2 prices coming down is going to halt very very fast indeed.
I swear CCP, do you actually play this bldy game?
Market forces will of course blanace all this out over the long term, but the promise of the tech 2 market being opened to all, and the prices of tech 2 items no longer being goverend by the tech 2 BPO owners club, and being 1000+% of the prod costs, is never going to happen.
WTS: SOme actual time and effort looking at problems in Eve, and the ability to then make small changes that effect the problems and not making fkn great big ones that massacre the process and make it a bldy joke.
Cost: 1 isk
Auction ends when CCP wake up and get in game.
KIA EVE Home
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:16:00 -
[2]
Invention = ISK sink.
I thought you knew, eddz. -------- ..... |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:17:00 -
[3]
Invention, lol ----------
IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:22:00 -
[4]
There been a lot of threads and posts since the patch that nerfed the "high" runs, there been no word at all from the devs on the changes. I really suggest they go read the bottom of TomB's blog on invention tbh.
The drop rate of interfaces and the changes in build requirements is a bloody kick in the teeth to those who worked hard to get theirs built.
There is a lack of certain decryptors as they dont drop where they used to (like assembly instructions for minmatar). I don't mind put time and effort into get things, but I do mind when it doesn't lead anywhere.
Wonder if the devs is doing a "if we keep silent maybe they go away" approach on this
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
With the increased demand the Datacore prices have RISEN, not dropped, which wouldnt of been the worse result if you hadnt CHANGED THE NUMBER OF RUNS per job.
I made a thread about that a week ago (just after Rev 1.3), and CCP hasn't answered...
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Success rate with best success decryptors and skills at lvl 4 is about 60-70%, isk wastage is high, and now with new "improved" low run count from the succesful jobs, the swing in tech 2 prices coming down is going to halt very very fast indeed.
Cap recharger II price was down to 9 millions, and now that no one is inventing them anymore, their price is slowly rising again.
Same thing for Invulnerability fields II: down to 15 millions, now I doubt you'll find many for less than 19 millions.
Damage control II is also climbing again, afaik.
Originally by: KIAEddZ
I swear CCP, do you actually play this bldy game?
It seems they do. But it also seems that their QA department doesn't... First the crappy salvaging loot table (first of the Revelation era, anyway, previous examples are numerous), then the even crappier interface component loot table, and now this. I believe CCP doesn't spend enough time testing the changes they make, so they have to balance things out with all the subtility of a warhammer after...
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Market forces will of course blanace all this out over the long term, but the promise of the tech 2 market being opened to all, and the prices of tech 2 items no longer being goverend by the tech 2 BPO owners club, and being 1000+% of the prod costs, is never going to happen.
WTS: SOme actual time and effort looking at problems in Eve, and the ability to then make small changes that effect the problems and not making fkn great big ones that massacre the process and make it a bldy joke.
Cost: 1 isk
Auction ends when CCP wake up and get in game.
------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
KIAEnIgMa
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:23:00 -
[6]
i love lamp
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.08 16:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LUKEC Invention = ISK sink.
I thought you knew, eddz.
The ISK I can deal with, its the bldy Time Sink I can't.
KIA EVE Home
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.08 16:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LUKEC Invention = ISK sink.
I thought you knew, eddz.
The ISK I can deal with, its the bldy Time Sink I can't.
KIA EVE Home
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Caldess
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.08 18:08:00 -
[9]
The only thing that really needed to be fixed with invention, imo, was the component parts. The drop rate of interface BPCs was fine... you would see a few new auctions for 2 run BPCs on the forums every day, and more in game. It's a persistent part so there's no need to spam the universe with it like they are now. It should be a substantial investment.
Now we have this problem...
Interface BPC saturation (I know a guy that found 12 runs in 2 days. lol.)
Component part saturation (another guy carting around almost 200 power couplings from a few exploration sites. lol.)
Component requirement changes. Seriously, increasing the component drop rate or decreasing the component requirements would have been sufficient. Both is overkill.
Nerfed run output. Invention used to be worth the risk of failed jobs. Not anymore! Datacore prices. If these dropped it might be worthwhile to risk the failed jobs, of course, until the market crashed because of the huge amount of interfaces in the game and everyone inventing.
I think they should leave the component drop rate where it is, raise the component requirements back to where they were, un-nerf the number of runs, unboost the number of interfaces dropping (or at the very least the number of runs per BPC) and return this to a point where you have to sink an investment into it and work at it to see a profit.
I'm fine with a risk of failure, I just want the risk to be worth the reward, and the way it's going, that won't happen. --------------
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slothe
Caldari Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.08 18:15:00 -
[10]
im still waiting for your definitive guide to invention...
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
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HostageTaker
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 18:16:00 -
[11]
I agree with the stuff being said here.
>>> EvE-Online Wallpapers <<< |
FalconHawk
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.08 19:02:00 -
[12]
there are so many posts about it .... and no reply from a dev. iŠm just happy that i have got that interface early enough to get the costs back in before that major nerf .... flooding eve with interface wasnŠt the best idea the devs had ... as long datacores are so expensive. The only player that can use invention are the metagamers with several characters with omgwtf many r&d jobs and 0.0 alliances that farm the invention plexes for datacores.
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Jemma Talcot
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Posted - 2007.02.08 19:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jemma Talcot on 08/02/2007 19:15:37 CCP, always going from one side of the problem to the other, even a monkey could figure out balance better.
It was obvious at first that certain components were to hard to get, they could have increased drop rate on components in exploration sites to about 20-40 mixed components from a hacking site, not the current 100-300 or whatever it is now. They didn't need to reduce build requirements on interface bpcs and they didn't need to make every single damn hack site drop multiple runs of interface bpcs, god damn, and i thought they were clever.
You can bet the devs are all going "damn whiners on the forums, they are never happy, first they whine it's to hard and now they whine it's to easy" my answer to that would be - YOU SHOULDN'T MAKE IT SUPER HARD AND THEN GO TO THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM AND MAKE IT SUPER EASY THEN SHOULD YOU?
The current changes are ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. I bet all the people who whined interfaces were to hard to get are gutted now, now that everyone has full sets of interfaces suddenly theres nothing special and nothing to be gained from owning one anymore. Then again it's ccps fault for overdoing it big time. The damage is done now, EVE is spammed with interfaces.
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.02.08 19:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: slothe im still waiting for your definitive guide to invention...
I don't do invention but from what i can tell.
Step 1: Don't do invention. ---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.08 20:39:00 -
[15]
I wrote a post here before but failed to hit the "post reply" button. In retrospect I'm glad because it was a bit harsh.
I'll just make one comment. Tweaks needed! Soon!
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.08 20:49:00 -
[16]
Invention is not an ISK sink, for it to be that you would have to buy Datacores from NPC corps.
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 20:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: KIAEddZ Hitting the nail on the head
qft
Listen to me on BoB Radio Wednesdays 16:00-17:00 & Sunday 18:00-19:00. Rock & Metal |
Randay
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.08 21:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KIAEddZ A while back, when Invention was launched i wrote a few threads asking CCP to look at invention, and fix the problems with it.
The main problem being that a few compoenents needed for the builds were simply dropping at a rate of 1 or 2 a day lol, and that the building reqs for the Interfaces was insanely high, and that the datacores were over priced due to the high rp price and max trade of 4 a day...
So they took a look at invention, and....
What on gods earth have you done?
The interfaces are RIDICULOUSLY easy to get, being sold on market for a few hundred million now...
With the increased demand the Datacore prices have RISEN, not dropped, which wouldnt of been the worse result if you hadnt CHANGED THE NUMBER OF RUNS per job.
Success rate with best success decryptors and skills at lvl 4 is about 60-70%, isk wastage is high, and now with new "improved" low run count from the succesful jobs, the swing in tech 2 prices coming down is going to halt very very fast indeed.
I swear CCP, do you actually play this bldy game?
Market forces will of course blanace all this out over the long term, but the promise of the tech 2 market being opened to all, and the prices of tech 2 items no longer being goverend by the tech 2 BPO owners club, and being 1000+% of the prod costs, is never going to happen.
WTS: SOme actual time and effort looking at problems in Eve, and the ability to then make small changes that effect the problems and not making fkn great big ones that massacre the process and make it a bldy joke.
Cost: 1 isk
Auction ends when CCP wake up and get in game.
so which is it? do we want ccp in the game or out of the game?
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Ariel Dawn
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.08 21:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 08/02/2007 21:36:25 Invetion should be rebalanced so it's more profitable than those building from T2 BPOs. There's a ton more work involved for those who get the components themselves, this should be reflected in the profits.
The great majority of the EVE community would like to see reasonably priced T2 modules, hopefully CCP (or BoB ) will make this happen with invention.
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Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2007.02.08 22:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 08/02/2007 21:36:25 Invetion should be rebalanced so it's more profitable than those building from T2 BPOs.
Wait... what?
What would the point of even having t2 BPO's be in this magical fairy-land version of Eve you envision?
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.02.08 22:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mirirar
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 08/02/2007 21:36:25 Invetion should be rebalanced so it's more profitable than those building from T2 BPOs.
Wait... what?
What would the point of even having t2 BPO's be in this magical fairy-land version of Eve you envision?
Invention should NEVER be about produce t2 modules cheaper than what can be built from t2 prints.
Imho some of the t2 modules hardly move at all, and isnt worth inventing, as you gain nothing from it and is better off buy the modules from the market.
Invention come to its right regarding the t2 modules that get sold for profit margins 1000% and more above build cost. It would push the price down a bit (I say a bit, because everyone is a gold digger and want the most from their products, no magic elfs to put modules on market at build cost just because of invention).
End of the day, t2 bpo holders can produce at way lower cost than those doing it from invention, so inventors always at the short end of the stick. Due to CCP the stick now turned into a toothpick though :/
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Drakma
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.08 22:45:00 -
[22]
Interface drop rate needs to be reduced imo. They drop far too easily.
In addition datacores are a joke. At current prices for datacores you've already made the invention of many t2 items more expensive than just buying them off the market... sometimes by orders of magnitude,
-----------------
Gekidoku is recruiting |
Kabeil Blackdawn
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 00:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Drakma In addition datacores are a joke.
Some datacore are so expensive because not a lot of person went in those field of science. Once everyone and there alts are doing molecular engineering, there price will go down and prices for datacore will stabilise. You have to remember that the price of datacore is set by players. When it all started datacores were selling from 2 to 20 mil. Then those selling datacore realised they could make more isk by selling them at a higher price. In the process of invention, the huge profit of selling T2 is taken by those selling datacore. Some people are buying datacores at high price because certain items will still make a profit by being invented, even if you take into account failled jobs.
If I remember correctly, CCP wanted datacore to be the limiting factor in invention. With the changes to the interface and needed material drop rate, this is exactly what has happened.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:46:00 -
[24]
Edited by: LUKEC on 09/02/2007 10:43:18 Invention in few steps with positive 0 at the end: a. buy interface bpc (did 4 run for 600mil) b. build interfaces(read buy skill, components, another 300mil) c. buy datacores(ughomfgthisismoreexpensivethanexpected) d. invent(2x maxrun 425mm railgun, 2x bcu, 2x invul. field, all failed with skills at lvl4, decryptors used, got 1x 6run bcu II) e. sold interfaces for 1.5-1.6bil (380,370,349,330)
In the end I think i ended with postive 0 in isk, 1 expensive skill inserted, like 30h wasted hauling stuff together, looking for cheap skills etc.
Maybe time to start buying t2 stuff again, before prices skyrocket again.
ps. datacores joke: mechanical engeneering, only lvl4 agents are minmatard. Kthxbye. -------- ..... |
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:59:00 -
[25]
Un-nerf the runs! Whoever made the descision to nerf them so bad should be slapped and then fired. ---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Xaildaine
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:09:00 -
[26]
We still cant invent Hulks yet can we?
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Goberth Ludwig
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 09/02/2007 12:13:36 Agreed CCP this has to be your biggest fkup in the last 2 years.
Especially when the blog said the number of bpcs was fine and THEN you make the bpc drops **rediculously** common so the folks that bought them before the patch waste billion isk.
To add insult to injury... you nerfed the number of runs - why again??
Oh well...
- Gob
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Fakespace
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:25:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Fakespace on 09/02/2007 12:22:37
Originally by: Caldess
... Now we have this problem...
Interface BPC saturation (I know a guy that found 12 runs in 2 days. lol.)
Component part saturation (another guy carting around almost 200 power couplings from a few exploration sites. lol.) ...
Sorry, but the situation is even worse the you think... last night i gave up on trying to find resonably priced datacores for a while, so i went exploring for the first time in weeks (in no-sec).
Ok, so it took me a while to track down a hacing site, but when i first found one, it gave me... a 4 run starship interface bpc, a 2 run module interface bpc, a 2 runs rig interface bpc, 150 parts (of the 2 most expensive type) and 4 datacores.
Now, that was from ONE site... to bad only the datacores will be worth anything when i finally get around to ship it all to hi-sec.
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 13:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
I swear CCP, do you actually play this bldy game?
... tech 2 BPO owners club ...
They play the game alright, they just don't PvE.
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Celedris
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.09 13:41:00 -
[30]
This isn't meant as a flame, and I can sympathize with people that spent billions on early interfaces. That said, it seems most of the complaints about invention involve the cost of the datacores.
If invention is so broken and unprofitable: then why are so many people still spending so much cash to buy the datacores?
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