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Juwi Kotch
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.08 14:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 08/02/2007 14:28:47
ups... premature posting... content will follow...
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.08 14:55:00 -
[2]
reserved
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Endless Horizon
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Posted - 2007.02.08 16:04:00 -
[3]
Let me just say I love that 'resulting in a well balanced' part ^^
/*
Teach a rookie today watch him takedown a battleship tomorrow...
*/ |
BlackStone Sr
Caldari
BlackStone Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.08 17:01:00 -
[4]
Greetings,
Well done, After reviewing your work I am glad I decided to create a Caldari player. Thanks for the hard work.
BlackStone Sr.
CEO, BlackStone Heavy Industries
"Were the size of Gun Matters" |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
|
Posted - 2007.02.09 11:38:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 09/02/2007 11:36:54
Before someone could tell me, I corrected an error in the above attribute analysis: I had calculated the combination of Intelligence plus Willpower for balanced characters, what is wrong, it should be Intelligence plus Perception.
That is corrected now, and the final ranking is:
 Best industrialist: Gallente Intaki Reborn
Best pilot and fighter: Minmatar Brutor Slave Child
Best balanced: Caldari Achura Inventor
Best overall: Caldari Achura Inventor
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
Countess NotFarOut2
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:34:00 -
[6]
I wonder now, if you nlook at developed/older characters, if you can find these stats back in them? I reaize that these older characters had a different starting point.
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Yena Tso
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:10:00 -
[7]
This is very helpful, thanks for the info.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.02.10 05:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/02/2007 05:21:59
And don't forget, the best overall initial choice:
Caldari Achura Inventor, with Engineering training (base stats 12i/7p/6m/6w/3c)
Can train Cybernetics L1 right off the bat to plug in +3 implant set in ROUGHLY ONE HOUR from creation.
Two more hours later (so 3 hours from character creation), assuming you train advanced int L1 and learning L2, and you picked +3 per and +2 int at custom points distribution in character creation, you get (base/custom/skill/implant):
INT : 22.88 <- 1.04*(12b+2c+4s+3i+1s)
PER : 13.52 <- 1.04*(7b+3c+3i)
MEM : 11.44 <- 1.04*(6b+2s+3i)
WIL : 09.36 <- 1.04*(6b+3i)
CHA : 06.24 <- 1.04*(3b+3i)
Hey, not bad for 3 hours of work and ~100 mil ISK.
And with 33k SP per day into M/I skills (like, oh, learning skills for instance) after 3 hours, you can bet this char gets all his "basic" learning (L4 all 6 basics, L3 all 5 advanced) done VERY fast... as a matter of fact, it will probably take much less than 14 days total for that.
So, what can we get as attributes on this char even BEFORE end of trial period ?
INT : 25.92 <- 1.08*(12b+2c+10)
PER : 21.60 <- 1.08*(7b+3c+10)
MEM : 17.28 <- 1.08*(6b+10)
WIL : 17.28 <- 1.08*(6b+10)
CHA : 14.04 <- 1.08*(3b+10)
That's right, with a mere 100 mil ISK and before the trial period runs over, you can have a char with the attributes from above AND marginally decent support skills (you do have a lot of spare time before trial runs out, you can bet on that).
Now, start running around creating an army of alts, pronto !
Oh, the best part ?
Not bound to any race of ships nor any weapons platform... L1 caldari frig and L1 small hybrids only, so EVERY race's ships can be flown just about with the same ease afterwards.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.02.12 06:00:00 -
[9]
Any reason this isn't a sticky yet?
Good work
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Distun
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Posted - 2007.02.12 13:00:00 -
[10]
So, the bottom line is that Caldari Achura chars are imbalanced!
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Qevan
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Posted - 2007.02.14 20:59:00 -
[11]
Just to make sure... after Revelations, your character's race and bloodline no longer affect your skills, right? Only the attributes taht you get in order to train those skills?
I wonder if I should reroll. :) :) :)
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Carl Rabbit
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Posted - 2007.02.14 22:19:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Qevan
Just to make sure... after Revelations, your character's race and bloodline no longer affect your skills, right? Only the attributes taht you get in order to train those skills?
I wonder if I should reroll. :) :) :)
Oh, actually the starting skills are affected by the selected race and bloodline. The skill distribution is quite different per race and bloodline. In the OP you get some more information about that. You can see that in detail in Tiberyya's posting, as mentioned int the OP.
Juwi Kotch
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2007.02.14 22:20:00 -
[13]
Damn board character selection...
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |
The Fates
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.02.18 11:54:00 -
[14]
Juwi I looked into these numbers as well a while back and came to very similar conclusions as you did.
I'd just like to point out one thing about the Achura thing, is the low charisma. This isn't a big deal IF you don't care for skills with charisma. Seeing that I'm Achura, when it comes to training anything charisma related if you are in it for the long run with one of these characters you can add training advanced charisma learning to your skill list where some characters might be able to get away with not doing it...
As discussed in other skill threads the bottom line is the 'best' character depends entirely on what you want to train, and if its a character you'll be playing with for years, or you are not sure 100% what your plan is, you will want to balance your attributes, perhaps just slightly lower charisma, for the long run. This achura character of mine will have over 17 million sp on his 1st birthday, which I'm quite happy with. Your mileage may vary.
Originally by: Napoleon Bonaparte
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.
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DogzNutz
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.04 00:49:00 -
[15]
Juwi I am not faulting you as Thanks to your input I personally think Trading Standards need to make a visit to CCP.
If your stats are correct and they seem to be then those of us tat have been playing for 2 years or more are absolutely screwed.
We will NEVER have the attributes the new subscriber are currently getting and yes they will catch us up but what you guys havent realized is that they will then superceed us people that have been playing for 4-5 years. I personally didn't pay ú500 over a period of 4 years to for my avatars to be made redundant.
Also why is it that the new subscribers pay the same amount of money as us old players when they have better characters? This is not fair in any business.
Old members are being ripped off guys and the sooner you realize this the sooner we will get CCP to resolve this major oversight.
Bow Wow wow yippy ya yippy ya!!
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Mycroft Kencyrath
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Posted - 2007.03.04 06:08:00 -
[16]
Nice work. I know what my my alt will be when I start em. Heheh.
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Cirale
GALAXIAN
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.05 11:56:00 -
[17]
sticky this!!!!
although I kinda doubt it will happen because everyone in their right mind will be makin this char, except for the newbs who dont know better/didnt research.
sorta kills the variety of the game a bit 
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.05 12:49:00 -
[18]
Well 1 point there or here isnt much difference if someone decides to train adv to 5 and plug some implants. However Achura does look quite imbalanced, int should be lower imo.
---
tnx. |
shakin stevens
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Posted - 2007.03.05 17:26:00 -
[19]
Well i can understand them giving new characters more sp at startup to get them immersed in the game but higher attribs lol. What you going to do in a year or so when you need to address this issue again????
I have played this game since release and have paid for my sp could u please tell me under what petition heading i post to claim my extra atrrib points please
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Junapo
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Posted - 2007.03.05 19:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DogzNutz
We will NEVER have the attributes the new subscriber are currently getting and yes they will catch us up but what you guys havent realized is that they will then superceed us people that have been playing for 4-5 years. I personally didn't pay ú500 over a period of 4 years to for my avatars to be made redundant.
Actualy when you think about it. This isn't realy too unfair.
You can if you want to start from scratch just like the new players and then it will only be even. The new players are starting with a HUGE hill infront of them looking at the more skilled players, and they(untill the patch) had no chance of catching up. That is in my opinion not to fair. They shouldn't be so chanceless just because they didn't see any adverts sooner, or didn't have any friends playing. Think about it, you're not LOOSING anything, the newbs are just getting a helping nudge into the world.
Also, the fact of the matter is that it isn't your Skillpoints and Attributes that realy declare who's good in this game. I for one took place in the PVP tournament at the last fanfest were all they players got super chars(450+MillSP) so everyone had same amount of SP no matter the race or anything. No implants allowed so everyone was even, and yet. There were HUGE differences in how good all the players were.
So my conclusion,
The newbs deserve the nudge, because you have the exact same chance of greatness as they do by also starting over. The older players are not LOOSING anything and it's just not what really matters in the game anyway. Don't get me wrong. Skills play a part of course, and the attributes play the biggest part in getting those skill points. And yet everyday you see 10mill SP chars kicking 60mill SP chars arses because of the right fit, the right tactic and the rigth place at the right time.
NOW BRING ON THE FLAMES!!!
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Terminal Saint
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Posted - 2007.03.06 12:26:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Terminal Saint on 06/03/2007 12:23:52
My character is ingame for a period of 1 year with a break of 4 month's and reached 14 mil skill points.
Looking at creating a new character at the moment, ill be having the same skillpoints in about half the time it took me to get the amount of skillpoints on my current character,
WITH the advantage of having way higher atributes as i can ever get on my current character.
I kinda feel cheated and robbed for all the efford it took me to get those 14 mil skillpoints and the subscription money spended for that.
Guess i am better off creating a new character and start all over again thanks ccp!
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.06 14:10:00 -
[22]
no flames just people saying that new characters will reach what they have reached in 3 years they will do in 2 for example. If EVE continues(i certainly hope) to run for next 4-5 years then those who are starting now will have potential to over-skill current characters.
btw, i dont like overall best comparism, since if youd go for combat, perc and will still need to be higher since theres more high-rank skills there rather then in mem+int for combat character(i mean combat pilot doesnt need some rank 8 reactions skill to lvl 5, but he does need BS to lvl 5). So for me its not viable, int 12 while perc is 7 isnt that great trade.
---
tnx. |
Tyrattica
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Posted - 2007.03.06 15:16:00 -
[23]
I don't have EVE here, but it's my recollection that the "custom" attributes you assign during character creation (e.g. the 5 extra points you can distribute) are added on by assigning learning skills. So, if you decide to add +2 int, and +3 willpower, you get 2 levels of the int skill and 3 levels of the willpower skill. This means that you get base + custom + (10 - custom amount) for each skill.
So older players are not at a disadvantage, if I'm correct.
Confirmation is welcome.
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Indiano Arko
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: n0thing
btw, i dont like overall best comparism, since if youd go for combat, perc and will still need to be higher
Can't agree about willpower. Perception, Intelligence, Memory, Willpower - this is an order of attributes by importance for "combat" oriented characters, in my opinion. Willpower in almost all cases will be a second attribute at best, while perception and intelligence for much more skills are primary attributes. Memory is important if you planning to skill-up drones and for learning skill tree. Thus why Caldari Achura is the best choice if you want to make a combat oriented character.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.03.07 06:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: shakin stevens
Well i can understand them giving new characters more sp at startup to get them immersed in the game but higher attribs lol. What you going to do in a year or so when you need to address this issue again????
I have played this game since release and have paid for my sp could u please tell me under what petition heading i post to claim my extra atrrib points please
You got that wrong.
They're NOT getting any extra attributes.
They're getting pre-levelled LEARNING skills.
Each and every character in the game has EXACTLY 39 base attribute points, no more, no less.
34 of those are determined by race, bloodline and ancestry, while 5 of them are "custom" (no more than 3 on one single attribute though).
"Old" characters used to start with modified attribute points of 40 (you got L1 in ONE learning skill), unless they also had the "learning" skill somewhere inside char creation, but the difference is not very large (40 vs 40.8 with L1 or 41.6 with L2 learning).
Nowadays, instead of usually starting with 34(bloodline)+5(custom)+1(school)=40, people start with [34(bloodline)+5(custom)+6(school)]*1.02 = 45.9.
Still, at a maximum, EVERYBODY can only get a grand total of exactly 125.4 "modified" attribute points =(34+5+5*(5+5+5))*1.1, that with all L5 trainings done, all +5 implants plugged in, and learning to L5.
Doesn't matter if it's a 3-year-old char or some char created yesterday, same maximums still apply.
The new guys just start a bit higher as everybody else started in the older days.
They don't get any attribute advantages.
_
MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.07 10:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Indiano Arko
Originally by: n0thing
btw, i dont like overall best comparism, since if youd go for combat, perc and will still need to be higher
Can't agree about willpower. Perception, Intelligence, Memory, Willpower - this is an order of attributes by importance for "combat" oriented characters, in my opinion. Willpower in almost all cases will be a second attribute at best, while perception and intelligence for much more skills are primary attributes. Memory is important if you planning to skill-up drones and for learning skill tree. Thus why Caldari Achura is the best choice if you want to make a combat oriented character.
Memory is only needed for at most 10 skills in learning, but what im saying is that 12 int wont buy you time that youll loose with 7 perception. At end with adv to 5 youll have 22 int, but only 17 perc wich will make you loose great deal of time on rank 5-8 skills while int skills wont go higher then rank 4 most of the time, at least till you wont turn into industrial areas. id rather have 7 int and 12 perception imo. On each day that id loose from int id gain 4-5 days on perception lvl 5`s.
---
tnx. |
Nekali Zho
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Posted - 2007.03.07 15:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 10/02/2007 05:21:59
And don't forget, the best overall initial choice:
Caldari Achura Inventor, with Engineering training (base stats 12i/7p/6m/6w/3c)
Can train Cybernetics L1 right off the bat to plug in +3 implant set in ROUGHLY ONE HOUR from creation.
Two more hours later (so 3 hours from character creation), assuming you train advanced int L1 and learning L2, and you picked +3 per and +2 int at custom points distribution in character creation, you get (base/custom/skill/implant):
INT : 22.88 <- 1.04*(12b+2c+4s+3i+1s)
PER : 13.52 <- 1.04*(7b+3c+3i)
MEM : 11.44 <- 1.04*(6b+2s+3i)
WIL : 09.36 <- 1.04*(6b+3i)
CHA : 06.24 <- 1.04*(3b+3i)
Hey, not bad for 3 hours of work and ~100 mil ISK.
And with 33k SP per day into M/I skills (like, oh, learning skills for instance) after 3 hours, you can bet this char gets all his "basic" learning (L4 all 6 basics, L3 all 5 advanced) done VERY fast... as a matter of fact, it will probably take much less than 14 days total for that.
So, what can we get as attributes on this char even BEFORE end of trial period ?
INT : 25.92 <- 1.08*(12b+2c+10)
PER : 21.60 <- 1.08*(7b+3c+10)
MEM : 17.28 <- 1.08*(6b+10)
WIL : 17.28 <- 1.08*(6b+10)
CHA : 14.04 <- 1.08*(3b+10)
That's right, with a mere 100 mil ISK and before the trial period runs over, you can have a char with the attributes from above AND marginally decent support skills (you do have a lot of spare time before trial runs out, you can bet on that).
Now, start running around creating an army of alts, pronto !
Oh, the best part ?
Not bound to any race of ships nor any weapons platform... L1 caldari frig and L1 small hybrids only, so EVERY race's ships can be flown just about with the same ease afterwards.
I'm actually doing that for my new char...since he will be very mining/ind focused it's a pretty nice start.
I started with +2 int and +3 mem I think.
So right off the start you can learn adv. int L1.
The best plan is something like:
Adv. Int 1-2-3
Basic mem 4
Adv. Mem 1-2
Learning 3
Adv. Mem 3
Learning 4
and so on.
I don't really remember if it's exactly that, but its something pretty odd. =P
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Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland
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Posted - 2007.03.07 16:45:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 07/03/2007 16:42:38
those numbers are the reason i piked what i am, achura offer the best overall balance in the stats and as a starter i didnt want to limit myself too much from the start. 'did a similar survey back than, not as thourougly as yours though.
--
Chi Quan on the run :) |
Indiano Arko
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.03.07 21:22:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Indiano Arko on 07/03/2007 21:25:24
Originally by: n0thing
Memory is only needed for at most 10 skills in learning,
Actually for 6 basic and 1 advanced. Also memory is primary for drones.
Originally by: n0thing
but what im saying is that 12 int wont buy you time that youll loose with 7 perception. At end with adv to 5 youll have 22 int, but only 17 perc wich will make you loose great deal of time on rank 5-8 skills while int skills wont go higher then rank 4 most of the time, at least till you wont turn into industrial areas. id rather have 7 int and 12 perception imo. On each day that id loose from int id gain 4-5 days on perception lvl 5`s.
Indeed.
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Indiano Arko
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.03.07 21:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nekali Zho
The best plan is something like:
Adv. Int 1-2-3
Basic mem 4
Adv. Mem 1-2
Learning 3
Adv. Mem 3
Learning 4
and so on.
I advice to use the EVEMon - it can automatically optimize skill learning curves, show estimated training time, speed, training time saved by implants etc etc.
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