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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mat rix
Caldari Grail Seekers NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:19:00 -
[541]
I see it as gross misconduct and he should be sacked
however i wont let it ruin the game i love to play.
We have a strong community we can overcome this, but ccp needs to be more transparent in there investigations. All ccp players should be investigated to ensure they are all above board.
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Imperium
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:20:00 -
[542]
Oh, and Eve Revelations, indeed.
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Toshiro Khan
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:20:00 -
[543]
Edited by: Toshiro Khan on 09/02/2007 23:17:34 **Removed as original comment was deleted**
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Tuschii
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:21:00 -
[544]
Edited by: Tuschii on 09/02/2007 23:17:59 Tuschii does not approve of T20's behavior, I trust ccp to take the correct actions.
/Me hunts out all sabres and subject them to tha pwn. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Dark Spartacus
Cross Road
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:22:00 -
[545]
I really think...
...Free Kugutsumen...
And cheaters shall not keep their job, although their apologizing is accepted.
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Abiel Mordecai
Gallente Wings of Redemption
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:22:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Im actually feeling a bit sorry for T20.
The guy did fess up. At least give him credit for that. I really dont like the idea of anyone losing jobs over this, but maybe Im biased as an old union boy.
NO! He didn't confess, he got caught, and only NOW does he say he's sorry. I have no respect for t20, if he had any feelings of remorse about this he should have confessed, or fixed it sooner. He didn't. He was quite happy with his actions until now. Conveniently, the exact same time that he gets busted, he decides to be "truly sorry" for what he did. Truly sorry is admitting to one's mistakes, not waiting to get caught to be sorry. That's not what being sorry is, that's saying what you think people want to hear.
t20 - if you're truly sorry, why didn't you confess? Or is it just now you've been caught that you've realised it was wrong?
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:22:00 -
[547]
Removed reference to deleted post - Serathu ([email protected]) __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:22:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 09/02/2007 23:01:29 Your leaders are liars and cheaters of the highest magnitude - you've asked us how we can follow Remedial - for all his faults, he's never, ever, come close to what your leaders have done. How can you follow them, after all of this? You called Goonfleet the cancer of EVE ; it is my pleasure to hand the title back to you.
.
very good quote. remedial is not my favourite character but you are so much better than the leaders in bob who knowly cheat
bobs new names BOD CHEATS HAXERS
just add to the list
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Levin Cavil That punishment may not seem like enough to many people but its too late now to do anything. Double Jeopardy is what we are really talking about when asking for t20 to lose his job.
For those who seem to be a bit uninformed of how legal systems work, Double Jeopardy only applies to CRIMINAL prosecutions. Not civil, corporate, or interpersonal matters.
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Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[550]
I will quit when good and ready, as will the others complaining. Till then we can voice our opinions as much as we wish. Deal with it. We are paying customers fighting for something we love that has been defiled by selfish jerks who deserve much more than they got, and we won't quit till justice is served.
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
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Athelas Loraiel
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Blacklight Very very difficult to post in this thread from my point of view. Not because I feel either myself or my mates that I play Eve with are cheats but because one man, an employee of CCP no less has let us all down, most of all he's let all of BoB down.
We play hard but I firmly believe we play fair and to have the rug pulled out from beneath us like this is a very bitter pill to swallow.
I'll blog about the issue from my perspective when I am done moving house and stuff so could be a week or so.
Not much more I can say really except that I am sickened and saddened to learn that a CCP employee in my alliance cheated.
Can someone link him the PMs from Kugutsmans Blog where it's obvious THEY KNEW ?? --------------
...Free Kugutsumen...
On the lookout for devs in BOB disguise. |
WhiteSnake
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[552]
I am pretty sure that K. wasnt right only about t2 distribution, he pointed few other issues. I just wonder did ccp talked with K. and ask him to give the rest of the evidence that he has? couse I ve seen some very interesting screenshots / chatlogs that he has at his site. Eve is great game, CCP employees are commited, no question about it, but does CCP wants to clear everything out? Couse if only one guy is punished, the rest that have cheated or knew about that (there is no doubt about knowning), should be more carefull and cover their tracks better, since they managed to get out with it. In my opinion, either you go and clear it all the way, or leave it as it is and let T20 to enjoy the game, couse letting t20 be the sacrificial lamb is not helping eve community.
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Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Jas Dor
That said the ASCN member who suggested at class action suit may just have a point.
Someone around page 10 pointed out they know of an ASCN dev, and that CLS has alot of tech2 bpo's for some reason...
Maybe in order to get the good stuff in eve, you just have to join a big alliance? __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Cyrus Ildemar Edited by: Cyrus Ildemar on 09/02/2007 23:06:33
Originally by: Grez You cannot stop the people making this game, playing it, and I for one will STOP paying for and playing this game if they stop. After all, they need feedback, and one of the only ways they can actually check for bugs, or see if the games working or not, is playing it.
Okay, so here's an idea.
Instead of most of the devs diligently and rigorously testing the workings of T2 blueprints, and leading capital fleets into battle, how about they actually spend time playing at the level of most players, and doing the things that most players do?
If the devs want to play so that they are aware of how the game works, then most or all of them should be mining in Ospreys, ratting, doing missions, perhaps participating in small-scale engagements.
Because THAT'S WHAT MOST OF THE PLAYERS DO.
I'm very glad that the heroic devs are willing to test the game experience of the top 0.1% of players, but perhaps they should set their sights a bit lower. And then I would stop doubting that they are actually playing for the good of the game, and not for the good of their own ego.
And maybe if a dev then cheats by spawning 1000 units of illegal Veldspar in his hangar, there won't be such an outcry.
This is EXACTLY my concern.
Most players are playing a nerfed game while the Devs play the game at it's fullest extent.
Dev's playing Eve in 0.0 is leading to distorted development for the Dev's own ends and not the playerbase.
Dev's should not be playing Eve as for them there is no game to play,,, they already know how to win way, way before it's implemented and know how to stick the oar in to stop the people who are taking Eve in the "wrong" direction by their eyes.
Even when you lose in Eve it seems a Dev will always win,,, where is the game in that ?
It's like the PE teacher competing in a school of 5 year olds and walking off with all the prizes,,,
I want my game of Eve back please.
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thirdeye47
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:23:00 -
[555]
what saddens and angers me is that a third party had to expose ccp, i dont think they know what really goes on, i also feel that this stinks of damage limitations from ccp
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Kerushi
Caldari Black Thorne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:25:00 -
[556]
just read his forums and
Quote:
Spike L Blueprint Malediction Blueprint Quake L Blueprint Barrage L Blueprint Sabre Blueprint Flameburst Precision Light Missile Blueprint Phalanx Rage Rocket Blueprint Havoc Fury Heavy Missile Blueprint
So thats our 2nd interdictor bpo, 2nd malediction bpo, and quite a collection of t2 ammo.
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Rhaegar Targarin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:25:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Im actually feeling a bit sorry for T20.
The guy did fess up. At least give him credit for that. I really dont like the idea of anyone losing jobs over this, but maybe Im biased as an old union boy.
CCP: The lesson of this is UNNERF MY FALCON
That is all.
I once got caught cheating on a girlfriend. I admitted it after I knew I was caught, even though she didn't have "proof". Guess what? She dumped me.
Rhaegar Targarin - Minmatar Combat Pilot |
Ademaro Imre
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:25:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Qual
Originally by: mazzilliu Edited by: mazzilliu on 09/02/2007 20:34:13 :whoah:
any chance of unbanning kugutsumen then? :/
Hell no!
Mind you he is NO hero. He is a hacker. And a pretty nasty one. He has broken into more than just web sites. He has hacked actual player accounts. Thats a CLEAR ban. NO discussion.
he is my Hero in this game. What would CCP be doing right now without him? Giving more dirts Dev's more tools to screw the game with?
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:26:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Lord XSiV Actually it would be nice if all these people threatening to quit actually do. Eve would be a better place and more mature people would be more likely to start playing Eve. As it is right now, many people shy away from playing Eve due to this kind of crud. Unfortunately those threatening to quit have been playing the same tune over and over trying to get what they want with no intentions of ever quiting the game. It isn't a threat unless you are actually willing to go through with it; otherwise it is just a bunch of hot air. So to that, if you don't like the outcome and are threatening on leaving, I am calling out your bluff and stating the obligatory 'Can I have your stuff?'
As for the guy who supposedly 'outted' the story, he should remain banned permanantly as CCP has taken the appropriate course of action based upon their own investgation. Hypothetically let me put it to you this way. If some of us players used our influences and abilities that we exhibit in real life as this clown has done, the reprecusions can be quite damaging whereas in the Eve world, you can always turn it off and walk away. The actions taken to obtain the information he has done are considered unethical in the very least and possibly illegal. Stating that he has information that could lead to repercussions against individuals if they don't follow his wishes is considered blackmail and possibly extortion if he is potentially using actions that will directly harm such individuals. It wouldn't be a far stretch for someone to explore these possibilities in the real world if it their area of expertise. It may seem trivial as it is 'just a game' but the reality is that online crime can bring a certain reputation which leads to advancement of one's career.
You can discredit this all you want as rubbish but it is general knowledge that people from many aspects of life play eve; doctors, lawyers, corporate directors, not just students, teenage kids and the 'unemployed' as some think.
Anyhow, CCP did their investigation and having access to all the relevant information did the proper analysis and made the decision based on their own policies. Those who who are crying that the sky is falling don't have access to the details or even the capability to do a proper unbiased analysis if they did so they should just shut up and realize that they are nothing more than a member of the peanut gallery....In this world, CCP runs the justice system and justice has been served. Leave it be and find something else to moan about like balancing Amarr :)
QFT :) |
iulixxi
Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:26:00 -
[560]
I dont believe that expelling t20 from CCP will fix any of the problems ... he made a mistake , we all make mistakes , we all fall to the temptation from time to time ... I don't know t20 , never heard of him since cople of days ago , but since he workes for CCP and he is a part of the DEV TEAM i am convinced that is a good guy , he makes good work , fiering him won't help the community ...
ALDO I believe that some messured must be taken, first off all i am 100% against the ideea that DEV and GM are allowed to play (lets not forget that they know things that us, usual players, dont know , they can and - like it seems here - use the game mechanism in their favor or in someone else's favor).
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Gharmin Ra
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:26:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Niaski Zalani
Originally by: Qual
Originally by: mazzilliu Edited by: mazzilliu on 09/02/2007 20:34:13 :whoah:
any chance of unbanning kugutsumen then? :/
Hell no!
Mind you he is NO hero. He is a hacker. And a pretty nasty one. He has broken into more than just web sites. He has hacked actual player accounts. Thats a CLEAR ban. NO discussion.
And you know that how?
I know I've got orange text in my sig field for having the same sig you have Niaski =) You may not discuss moderation, if you have any questions email us at [email protected] Tirg |
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:27:00 -
[562]
Originally by: thirdeye47 what saddens and angers me is that a third party had to expose ccp, i dont think they know what really goes on, i also feel that this stinks of damage limitations from ccp
Well to be fair, CCP didnt create thier Internal Affairs group until a few months ago right?
The created the group to try and stop this in the future, but there was no way of them tracking it in the past. Its a step in the right direction and thats what most people seem to be missing.
=(
I miss the old Eve Community. __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Grez
Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:27:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Im actually feeling a bit sorry for T20.
The guy did fess up. At least give him credit for that. I really dont like the idea of anyone losing jobs over this, but maybe Im biased as an old union boy.
He fessed up after he was caught.
Going to the police station and saying "I did it", is different from the police coming to you and catching. ---
Cache Clearer |
Kitsune Seventails
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:27:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Sephiraa THIS IS NOT OVER.
* T20, you claim there were 6 BPOs, but that's not true. There were more. What is the fate of the others? What about these BPOs? When are they being put back in the lottery? - Barrage S Blueprint - Barrage L Blueprint - Inferno Javelin Torpedo Blueprint - Malediction Blueprint - Quake L Blueprint
* We know there are other Devs still in BoB, and we know their names. What assurance do we have that this kind of corruption has come to an end? Do they need to be exposed as well, or will you make an effort on your own to insure the integrity of fair play in this game moving forward?
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet with full knowledge of the account sharing being used to create the cynonet. Accounts shared by all of the Directors in BoB. Every single one of those accounts should be fully banned, if not every single account owned by the BoB directors who took part in the account sharing. Considering other account sharing players have been banned, the answer about what to do here should be obvious.
* T20 led BoB's capital fleet, with inside knowledge of game mechanics, and somehow BoB just magically happens to control the largest amount of space. Is anything going to be done to balance this unfair advantage given to the BoB alliance?
* The financial gain given to BoB through early, and 'illegal' aquisition of those BPOs has a much large ripple effect in terms of economic and military power that needs to be balanced. What are CCPs plan to right that wrong?
* What is the nature and purpose of the Polaris vessels seen around GoonSwarm's moons as some of them are claiming? How can the players by sure the corruption is not still ongoing?
* Is a further level of scandal required to get LV's ill gotten Mothership removed? It would be sad, but I'm sure the community is willing to produce it, if CCP is unable to police themseves internally, as the Kugutsume's banning, and seeming coverup attempts suggest.
* Unban the whistleblower's account. This shouldn't even be up for debate. This whole scenario is reprehensible, and needs to be set right ASAP.
Personally, I don't care if T20 keeps his job or not, as I imgaine he'll not take such risks again. What I do care about is the negative impact on the entire EVE community, from the ripple effects of his cheating. For example, would ASCN be dead today, if T20 had chosen differently.
There is more required of CCP, and you better not fail us this time.
Absolutly... i fully agree with this.. Its one thing to be a Dev and be in some small little corp or alliance even as a CEO and putter around maybe pirating or making stuff... its another thing to have most of the CCP employees in _ONE_ alliance where they are running the major fleet operations, planning galaxy wide wars against paying customers, sharing aco****s, and giving intimate knowlege of game/server mechanics to this faction.
Its "bravo sierra" and you damn well know it CCP.
Make it right.
PS: Makes you think about all those node-crashes when BoB fleets were about to, or just did warp into a system.... the vast majority of which helped BoB... things that make you go hmmmm knowlege of node limits? peak load times? node-reboot timers... anyone? come on now.
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MrDisposable
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:28:00 -
[565]
Wow so the CEO of CCP posted... you guys know that means this is very serious. I think he can see his job is in jeopardy because when word gets around and REAL articles are written about this, CCP stock will take a dump.
SOE should be buying out CCP any day now. Too bad I liked eve for a while.
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Auri Hella
The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:29:00 -
[566]
This is a serious public relations disaster. CCP knew this since last summer and took until now to tell us? This whole situation is bad for everyone. Me not like.
Oh, and whatever you do, sack that cheater. I expect nothing less. Nice guy or not he did something unforgiveable. Bye bye.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:29:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Shadowsword I don't believe T20 should be fired. First because overall, he's been pretty nice for the community, second because he asked for forgiveness
Caught on cheating this game for ages? no... Fire him, this is a game and fairplay is a must.
Have you never done anything wrong? I did, sometimes (nothing really bad, just minor things), and I don't forget them even when the rest in the same period is blurred by memory. And when I think about them, one thing comes to mind: "how could I be such a moron?". Funny thing, feeling guilty: even when your deeds are known only to yourself, they stay branded on your mind, and you never forget them.
The memory of what T20 did, the harm is did to CCP and Eve and his workmates, those memories are punishment enough... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Popsikle
Caffeine Commodities Company
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:29:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Amiable Quinn Notice no BoB player has shown their face, but a bunch of alts are now arguing that 6 T2 BPO's were "no big deal?"
Seriously guys, you are really not fooling anybody.
Yeah it's very clever to admit some small wrongdoing to quiet down all the people who are suspecting wrongdoings and favoritism on a larger scale ...
I haven't seen BoB on these forums for a while, maybe they got silenced by thier leaders. __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =- |
Jahah Smith
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:29:00 -
[569]
OK let me say up FRONT that these oponions are mine and in no way reflect the attitude of my alliance. Saying that; here goes.
For me apology accepted, most would rather be fired than have to make a public apology. While I DO believe there should be some sort of punishment; with the public apology and the amount of ridicule that T20 was willing to endure with it termination should not be an option.
As to Devs being involved in Alliance warfare I am all for it. How can the devs understand the situation of a full on alliance battle if they do not experence it for themselves. I have seen the other side of this where devs do not get involved in the game and the issues brought up byh the playerbase not only are not understood; they are ridiculed for what they see by those same devs who also say "Well, we haven't seen that so we do not know what you mean." There is no more frustrating line than that to hear from a Developer. Cheers to CCP for encouraging massive dev interaction.
I know there will most likely be some flames from this post but these are my oponions and will remain such.
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
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Citizen Zero
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Posted - 2007.02.09 23:30:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Yellow Planet What about the account sharing and other accusations. I have been on the receiving end of being shot though a POS shield by these guys.
I used to think all this stuff was crazy until that faction scorp got popped.
There are so many issues tied into this scandal, of which the BPO's are just the tip of the iceberg, it is hard to know where to start.
Lets start with the most important factor: CASH All of the players of EVE have invested LARGE ammounts of time and more importantly money in this game. I personally have more than 1 account and have paid for YEARS of monthly service on each of them. Additionally I have invested large ammounts of money in web hosting, ventrilo, teamspeak, etc to further the goals of the organizations I have participated in. I have literally spent THOUSANDS of dollars on this game in the last few years.
In the time I have been playing there have been NUMEROUS reports of foul play. For the purposes of accuracy however I will only refer to the 1 incident I was directly and personally involed in which is the incident Yellow Planet is refering to: "I have been on the receiving end of being shot though a POS shield by these guys"
A while back RONA / Imperium attacked BOB in the back part of their space (I was flying the freighter setting up the POS's). I won't re-hash the entire incident here but the long and the short of it is that we had 2 of our POS's setup in their system (Shields active with passwords set) and BOB was able to fly INTO our shields and more importantly they were able to lock and fire on us while we were INSIDE our own POS bubble. We however were not able to target any of the BOB players from inside our bubble. Not even those BOB members who entered the shield.
Here is an "explanation" of these events from Rod Blaine of BOB in the original "corruption thread that started this: Linkage
"That day we got to shoot you through your pos shields was rather funny actually. I surprised us to notice that some of the ships we were shooting actually were in the shields, and that warping to the moon at zero landed us inside the shields as well iirr. I was there, as you were, and saw it."
Even if we accept this explanation of "we found out how to do this on accident" defense on face value, the fact still remains that once they "discovered" how to do this, their ENTIRE fleet EXPLOITED this and persisted in doing so until we were wiped out or run off.
At the time this occured there was a clearly stated rule from CCP that "Any player found utilizing an exploit will have their account banned". Needless to say nobody was banned even though fraps were provided identifying all parties involved.
It is incidents like these where rules set by CCP are glossed over or ignored that people get ****ed. The GM / Dev involved in the BPO scandal is not being fired. The players involved in the above incident were not banned or even penalized.
As many people have already mentioned the "polluting" effect of this incident (the BPO's) is HUGE. Simply removing the BPO's is not sufficient. Yes its a start but what about all the items produced? BPC's sold, units sold, units used in combat for "free", players losses contributed to by the use of these items?
As to developers etc playing the game, thats fine. But they should be restricted to NPC corps and not allowed to have any ISK or item transactions with players in game nor should they be allowed to participate in corp / alliance engagements.
1 set of FAIR rules for everyone. Players & Devs. Then enforce them consistantly. We the players have no sense that the game is fair or balanced. We deserve a real and COMPLETE accounting of these issues and not just an "apology" or a "we are looking into it... no really"
Thanks, CZ |
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