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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Sixtyniner
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:01:00 -
[1381]
Originally by: Gradinger tbh im amazed and saddened that this happened or that you had to admit it CCP - although not totally surprised.
CCP, you have betrayed your players, your customers, sometimes comrades.
Well, as stated, CCP will continue to play this game among us - and this is TOTALLY FINE - a desirable advantage to develop this game.
And to everybody who wishes otherwise and cries for dev ban over TQ - how do you think that would work? Apart from the lacking playing experience at CCP - this couldnt even be policed in any way. How you want to stop somebody from playing a mmo? if needed he can use a friends credit card and a proxy. and the other thing is, devs are making this gaming - they can manipulate it if they want and they got insider-knowledge of mechanics, events etc..
So how can we, regular players, be sure CCP aint cheating? hmm.. noway. there is now way to make sure no information leaves the CCP-HQ or something alike.
So what is left? TRUST - it¦s all about trust. all we can do is trust you CCP, and you have admittedly abused this trust, at least once.
I beg you CCP - dont abuse us again. I beg you CCP - dont disappoint us again. Please, CCP, dont cheat on us - again.
What he said. Trust is all we got, and since CCP abused it once it¦s gonna be twice as hard to convince us that nothing bad i sgoing on.
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Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:02:00 -
[1382]
Edited by: Mortania on 10/02/2007 12:59:20
Originally by: Nole Garyer
Originally by: Mortania
those who say, "Quit if you don't like it," you also cheapen your own and everyone else's time
Then people should seriously stop using it as a "threat".
Your backseat driving makes you look rediculos. Hot air and chestbeating wont win you any T2 bpo's.
Get lost idiot.
Thanks, we have over 20 of them in the corp already. I never said I was threatening to leave. I said saying, "quit if you don't like it," cheapens your own investement in this game.
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Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:05:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: Sixtyniner
What he said. Trust is all we got, and since CCP abused it once it¦s gonna be twice as hard to convince us that nothing bad i sgoing on.
So what do you suggest we do in the meantime? How will this alter you daily gaming?
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Yoran Gerel
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:08:00 -
[1384]
Originally by: Mortania Edited by: Mortania on 10/02/2007 12:59:20
Originally by: Nole Garyer
Originally by: Mortania
those who say, "Quit if you don't like it," you also cheapen your own and everyone else's time
Then people should seriously stop using it as a "threat".
Your backseat driving makes you look rediculos. Hot air and chestbeating wont win you any T2 bpo's.
Get lost idiot.
Thanks, we have over 20 of them in the corp already. I never said I was threatening to leave. I said saying, "quit if you don't like it," cheapens your own investement in this game.
I agree with you there. But to be honest, I think most people here wont be satisfied until they see thier wallet blink with a "were sorry here's a billion isk" from ccp. So many think they have had a loss, when all they suffered were a 2 second "what the ****" moment.
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Mill Spec
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:08:00 -
[1385]
A few thoughts on human nature and power.
Several times over the last 3 years we have been embroiled in accusations of and grudging (my opinion) admittance to improper in game use of privileges achieved via employment at CCP. Because of this the community at a whole has had it's trust abused on a reoccurring basis. Trust is not an inexhaustible well, people are leaving, and although the most recent incident may not be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back as things stand such a straw will drop.
Human nature has at it's heart a belief that what "I" do is right. In support of this belief is one of human kind's greatest talents. That being the talent for self deception. The poorest of the poor can convince him/her self that it's not so bad and in the end believe they had a decent life. The richest of the rich can convince her/his self that it is their right and that they need more.
This leads people who have power in any form towards using that power to better themselves. No not all do so, there are benevolent dictators, but don't bet the rent check on finding such. The statement "Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" or some version of such is familiar to all. While no absolute statement can cover everyone it is a warning to the wise.
In every governing system be it government, religion, corporate, sports, club, ect. there are some things that are essential for long term stability. The single most important guarantee of stability is by balancing Power with Accountability. The more Power the more Accountable one must be and in some situations the associated risk will overrule giving such a level of power.
For example: Organizations that have raffles, contests, sweepstakes and any such with prized that are valuable restricts their own and any associated organizations employee's and their families from participating. There is plenty of evidence in the legal system that doing otherwise is a sure fire way to get your employee's to do the wrong thing.
Valuable can mean many things. Things of value: 1. Influence over another's options. 2. Influence over another's choices. 3. Influence over multiple people. 4. The tried and true "Cash". 5. Some people only feel value if people know they have power. 6. Some people value invisible power over others. 7. Some value respect and accolades from others. 8. Some value the score. "I got more money/isk than you do." 9. Some value the impact. "I can take/destroy what you have."
And of course people aren't limited to one. Having more cash, nets you better stuff, used to destroy someone else's stuff, posted to public forums/trophyboards....
Using an exploit that nets you a lot of cash that you use to purchase an expensive BPO that you donate to your corp. You are rewarded with a high position in the corp and accrue accolades from many of the members especially when your contributions help improve the corp's status in it's alliance and so on...
I, and I'm sure many people that read this, could come up with endless scenarios but that isn't the point. THE POINT is that people do abuse their authority and that, with very few exceptions, if you provide authority without oversight then it WILL be abused and the abuse will steadily get worse. This has been documented in almost every venue where one human has authority over another.
I'm not saying people can't be good. Plenty of them are good folks. But don't delude yourselves any competent psychologist can tell you that it's no effort to encourage a group with power over another group to abuse and steadily increase the abuses against the other group. It does however require organization and a steady attention to detail to prevent such from occurring.
Mill Spec
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Mill Spec
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:09:00 -
[1386]
Taking the above into consideration I personally believe:
1. CCP Employee's with access to the production game must have their activities logged in such a fashion that they can't modify those logs. This provides for the ability to oversee their activities.
2. CCP employee's in game should be obviously tied to CCP in such a fashion that can't be duplicated by customers.
3. In the case where CCP employee's need to be unobserved they should have NO ability to affect gameplay without multiple layers of active oversight.
4. CCP employee's should be banned from participating in the game. The exception might be first level help personnel who don't have the ability to affect other players. Yes I know that people love the game. But they need to make a choice, love to work on it or love to play it and never the two shall meet.
If you work on a game, and even work around people that do so you will accrue information about upcoming changes and directions that will affect the way you chose what skills to train, what things to spend time on practicing. Even without any intent to cheat or get an advantage you will inevitably accrue such and advantage over other players.
5. Internal to CCP's operations there should be some very serious divisions on information flow. For instance a developer for the game should never have any access to financial information of any kind. That includes email address's and any other identifiable information.
6. Perhaps the most important. Bad things happen. It is also human nature to try to minimize, cover-up, and excuse and even rationalize such things. AVOID THAT. When an issue occurs immediately announce someone uninvolved as the spokesperson. Define the issue/accusation. Report same minus any identifiable information. Investigate thoroughly - using people that are good at that and uninvolved as much as possible in anything to do with the issue. Report to the community the results of the investigation and as much as possible what actions were taken. Do your level best to correct the effects of the issue and explain to any innocent parties involved exactly (again minus real names ect.) how and why they are involved.
The above suggestions might be considered draconian by some, but I believe they are reasonable for a corporation such as CCP. In a non profit environment I would have suggested a considerably more openness and transparency in all operations.
Mill Spec
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Christopher Scott
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:12:00 -
[1387]
Edited by: Christopher Scott on 10/02/2007 13:10:29 Three words: Mo0, Evolution, Reikouku.
All three corporations were 'notorious' for exploiting. They had this reputation before they created BoB, and they had this reputation before even joining EVE Online. The history goes very, very deep. All the numerous damagemod stacking exploits that was covered up, the ISK duping, the targeting mod exploit that crashed peoples clients, massive dumping of cans and mines to lag people out, I could go on forever.
Mo0 was the only corporation that, after years of ridiculous exploiting, finally got some form of punishment, although it was rather light in my opinion.
Meanwhile, Reikouku and Evolution just assimilated the rest of Mo0, and kept on going with their blatant cheating. For the newer players who were not around to see these days, to know what went on, well now you know.
This is not the end of blatant cheating within CCP. Not even the tip of the iceberg has been uncovered. If people only knew 'how' easy it was to cheat and trade insider information as a volunteer alone, you would be digusted. There are virtually no checks and balances on volunteer accounts.
But I digress. All the crap about Xirtam and the rest of VOTF being crazy and wearing tinfoil hats, for calling BoB and CCP out for developer misconduct.. well "we told you so."
By the way, you have read kuugutsmen's logs and insider information, but you haven't read ours. Trust me, there is a LOT more dirt on CCP that has yet to be released from other alliances. We save our GM chatlogs, we carefully watch what our enemies admit in private conversations and in local. We have seen and recorded really suspicious activity with fraps and screenshots. We have testimonials from ex-BoB players and ISD members that have seen alot of underhanded stuff going on. We have been doing this for three years, and for good reason.
The next three months are going to be very interesting.
Originally by: DB Preacher I may be a muppet on these forums and wind peeps up massively but what is going on here is waaaaay over the edge of reasonable morality.
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Veryez
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:19:00 -
[1388]
First off that t20 cheated there is no question and his "punishment" should be the same as any player that cheated. That was in the agreement that ALL of us agreed to. His punishment should be no different.
As far as his continued employment @ CCP. That's really none of anyone's business. Whatever his conditions of employment, it's up to CCP to enforce the rules as they see fit.
However as seen by the number of replies here, the real damage is the reputation of "EVE", a game we are all very passionate about. Our game has been hurt by the thought that people with inside knowledge have used that to get ahead (and help others get ahead). In this case a creation of an "Internal Affairs" division is a very good step in the right direction. If EVE's reputation becomes one of, "the way to get ahead is to join "X" and have the dev's help you", it will die. The community will leave and what was a great game will be lost to us forever. I wish this new "Internal Affairs" division great success.
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Khanid Knight
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:25:00 -
[1389]
To solve this, there is only one solution. A 8 months role-back
With all benefits and dev help that BOB have got, there is no other way! Its not only the BPO's the got, the simply have cheated!
CCP don't like to change this, many corporations and alliance have been misleaded in a "fair" play. What if BOB would not have all thoos info from the devs and GM's, would the have beaten ASCN? (and i'm not a fan of them)
And how comes that with a system crash BOB is always on the winning side?
Its time that CCP explain all of this for ones.
If not, there is simply no reason to play this game any longer
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:25:00 -
[1390]
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot. |
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Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:25:00 -
[1391]
Originally by: Christopher Scott
By the way, you have read kuugutsmen's logs and insider information, but you haven't read ours. Trust me, there is a LOT more dirt on CCP that has yet to be released from other alliances. We save our GM chatlogs, we carefully watch what our enemies admit in private conversations and in local. We have seen and recorded really suspicious activity with fraps and screenshots. We have testimonials from ex-BoB players and ISD members that have seen alot of underhanded stuff going on. We have been doing this for three years, and for good reason.
The next three months are going to be very interesting.
Question, what do you expect to gain from this? What result are you hoping for?
And why should we wait three month?
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
dokkillo
Amarr 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:26:00 -
[1392]
Should i petition my loses by fleet bobs with ammo T2 or sabres?
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Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:27:00 -
[1393]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Read my post again:
I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons.
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Fulber
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:27:00 -
[1394]
Originally by: dokkillo Should i petition my loses by fleet bobs with ammo T2 or sabres?
100 ISK says the BoB GM who answers it won't reimburse it.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:28:00 -
[1395]
Originally by: Eron Lygera
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Read my post again:
I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons.
You mean the reasons of why we are mad? |
olddone
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:29:00 -
[1396]
My my, sad news indeed. Developer favors the rest of us do not enjoy. And where is my Christmas present? This type of thing is community crushing.
Funny my research agent isn't happy with you. I always thought there wasn't really a lottery. BPO are given out by ccp in the "interests of the game not its unconnected players".
Oh, I hear ccp forgot to mention faction loot gifts as a "token of affection" when their were additions of certain stations in Delve as few patches back. What else do we not know about?
The will to fight is all you need to kill them, and a few friends. |
Mortania
Minmatar Carbide Industries Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:32:00 -
[1397]
Originally by: Eron Lygera
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Read my post again:
I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons.
Your alt's seem to say you care about more than that.
Or are Eron Lygera Nole Garyer Yoran Gerel
all posting close to each other just a coincidence? Here, alphabetically for each name for ya: aeeglnorry aeeglnorry aeeglnorry
You do seem worked up about it.
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Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:34:00 -
[1398]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Read my post again:
I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons.
You mean the reasons of why we are mad?
Yes... you posting with your alt suggests that its more than just bitterness at T20.
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Adsterine
Rome SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:36:00 -
[1399]
Ok, maybe this has already been answered, but theres 51 pages which i'm just not even gonna look at... My question is that, ok so t20 spawned some BPO, ok whatever and CCP knew about the BPO since last summer? Correct me if im wrong. So if you knew about the BPO since last summer why were they still in circulation, have they now only been removed because it's been uncovered? Would they still be in the corp? From what i've read yes. Like i said correct me if im rong, just seems a tad odd.
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Tanis Bastar
Caldari Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:37:00 -
[1400]
Originally by: EscapeArtist
TBH, it doesn't bother me if the developers do have a leg up in the game. In fact, I like the idea of items being placed in the game via dev chars.
Then you've found the perfect game! Most players will probably have different views, however. -BoB Delenda Est- |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:37:00 -
[1401]
Originally by: Christopher Scott Edited by: Christopher Scott on 10/02/2007 13:10:29 Three words: Mo0, Evolution, Reikouku.
All three corporations were 'notorious' for exploiting. They had this reputation before they created BoB, and they had this reputation before even joining EVE Online. The history goes very, very deep. All the numerous damagemod stacking exploits that was covered up, the ISK duping, the targeting mod exploit that crashed peoples clients, massive dumping of cans and mines to lag people out, I could go on forever.
Mo0 was the only corporation that, after years of ridiculous exploiting, finally got some form of punishment, although it was rather light in my opinion.
Meanwhile, Reikouku and Evolution just assimilated the rest of Mo0, and kept on going with their blatant cheating. For the newer players who were not around to see these days, to know what went on, well now you know.
This is not the end of blatant cheating within CCP. Not even the tip of the iceberg has been uncovered. If people only knew 'how' easy it was to cheat and trade insider information as a volunteer alone, you would be digusted. There are virtually no checks and balances on volunteer accounts.
But I digress. All the crap about Xirtam and the rest of VOTF being crazy and wearing tinfoil hats, for calling BoB and CCP out for developer misconduct.. well "we told you so."
By the way, you have read kuugutsmen's logs and insider information, but you haven't read ours. Trust me, there is a LOT more dirt on CCP that has yet to be released from other alliances. We save our GM chatlogs, we carefully watch what our enemies admit in private conversations and in local. We have seen and recorded really suspicious activity with fraps and screenshots. We have testimonials from ex-BoB players and ISD members that have seen alot of underhanded stuff going on. We have been doing this for three years, and for good reason.
The next three months are going to be very interesting.
Why wait? Go ahead and present the evidence I'd say. Lets get them to come clean.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Soon Tzu
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:39:00 -
[1402]
Originally by: Eron Lygera wow 47 pages of:
<bob arse kissing sound>
God, there are so many nubs in here. Grow up.
Hi there bob alt, how ya doing bob alt?
Go kiss ccp/bob arse in the coverup closet please, the paying customers don't need to see it...
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Unvisibility
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:41:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: Eron Lygera Yes... you posting with your alt suggests that its more than just bitterness at T20.
... says the person posting with 3 alts on the same thread
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Soon Tzu
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:41:00 -
[1404]
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: Eron Lygera wow 47 pages of:
- Omg bob must be banzored - omg he cheated, banzor him and everyone else we dont like with him - omg I will close my account if you dont banzor -insert victim- now!
All I see is alot of envy. The same envy that goes towards certain alliances ingame because they are better at what they do than you.
T20 did bad things, and as kieron mentioned he has been punished. End of story.
Everyone else who feels they have been violated, lied to or what not do the following:
1 - walk away from computer 2 - walk to a mirror 3 - look at yourselv in mirror 4 - say "Its just a game" out loud 10 times 5 - Still angry? Return to step 3 6 - Feeling better now? Good... go shoot someone in lowsec.
Please, please grow up. What the dev did is bad and CCP has handled the situation as professionaly as possible if you ask me. If you dont want to support CCP I suggest you cancel your accounts as fast as possible. Because whining here about how violated you feel wont get you anywhere.
God, there are so many nubs in here. Grow up.
Is this possible? someone that actually makes sense? wow.
and hi to you too bob alt, i see the bob alts are off their leash and allowed to post some spin doctor crap now.
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Arvo Henderson
3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:41:00 -
[1405]
I've been refraining to make any posts in any threads regarding this issue, but I can't refrain myself anymore after reading T20 and Hellmar's blogs.
This is a simple question that I hope kieron will care to answer:
After reading T20 "confession" it seems to me that CCP was aware of the BPOs affair back in summer 2006, while they have been removed from the game now, in February 2007. Could you please tell us what was preventing you from restoring the game balance 6 months ago? Why have you decided to do it now when there's been a huge outcry in the community?
Thank you.
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Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:42:00 -
[1406]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Eron Lygera
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Originally by: Eron Lygera
I dont care how mad you are.
Are you sure? Because your posts per minute on this thread says you do care a lot.
Read my post again:
I do not care how mad you are. I care about the reasons.
Your alt's seem to say you care about more than that.
Or are Eron Lygera Nole Garyer Yoran Gerel
all posting close to each other just a coincidence? Here, alphabetically for each name for ya: aeeglnorry aeeglnorry aeeglnorry
You do seem worked up about it.
busted.
I ****** up on the rolldowns and decided to let it stay. But well done figuring it out.
Yes Im worked up about it. But again, not because people are mad. But because of the reasons wich seem to apply bitterness towards other players more than bitterness at T20 who is the real perp.
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
Eron Lygera
Gallente Sharded Awareness
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:45:00 -
[1407]
Originally by: Soon Tzu
Originally by: Eron Lygera wow 47 pages of:
<bob arse kissing sound>
God, there are so many nubs in here. Grow up.
Hi there bob alt, how ya doing bob alt?
Go kiss ccp/bob arse in the coverup closet please, the paying customers don't need to see it...
Hi there ASCN/D2/IRON/GOON alt, how ya doing alt?
Sorry that you are so bitter at us for kicking your arse ingame. Perhaps you should start doing something about it instead of whining.
Who are you mad at? T20 or bob?
Ps. Dont nerf WCS! |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:45:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Khanid Knight To solve this, there is only one solution. A 8 months role-back
With all benefits and dev help that BOB have got, there is no other way! Its not only the BPO's the got, the simply have cheated!
CCP don't like to change this, many corporations and alliance have been misleaded in a "fair" play. What if BOB would not have all thoos info from the devs and GM's, would the have beaten ASCN? (and i'm not a fan of them)
And how comes that with a system crash BOB is always on the winning side?
Its time that CCP explain all of this for ones.
If not, there is simply no reason to play this game any longer
An 8 month rollback in a game which revolves around ammount of time played would be suicidal for the game.
imagine the game did get rolled back 8 months... everything gets rolled back skills cash, time invested new players accounted get wiped. That would be shortly followed by everyone demanding an 8 months refund itself an costly task. That would also be shortly followed by layoffs at CCP which would be followed by the game going **** up which would be followed by CCP closing.
A roll back even though it would be the best solution to solve the problems is immpossible.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Nicholas Barker
Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:46:00 -
[1409]
seems to me just like t20 dropped a live grenade, and ccp pushed him on top of it. -------------------------------------
LAUNCH THAT SUCKER YEAH! |
Soon Tzu
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Posted - 2007.02.10 13:47:00 -
[1410]
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: KiLLaH KLoWN
I see the BoB alts are filtering in finally
Yes, people that can actually reason must be bob alts. I wonder how many of you will go to the fanfest and have the balls to actually stand up to the developers, instead of pretending to be all that behind your computerscreen.
ok bob alt, why the F would anyone want to goto a ccp fanfest now??
If the customers are crapped on like this, why would they spend a few thousand to go?
I know, I know, you had a hard time breathing, lack of oxygen and all considering where you head is inserted...thats why you posted such a moronic thing huh?
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