Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 99 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Joy Tung
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 11:57:00 -
[2851]
I attend an ethical class at collage and I would like permission from CCP to highlight this to my tutor I'm also using this as a project entitled;
Theft, Criminality, Corruption & CCP
I also would love to been in every Monday morning meeting held by your competitors what will they do, say or react?
I can imagine a few coffees being spat out at MMO companies around the world, as they draft up meetings to all the GM's, CM's and Dev about the impact to the community these allegations would have if it happened to them. I also Imagine they will draft up proper measures on how to reaction and combat such actions not the half arsed way CCP has dealt or not dealt with it.
I hate that CCP is the guinea pig for these big hitting allegations (or is it lamb to the slaughter?).
|
Plan Neun
Caldari Ganja Unlimited CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:00:00 -
[2852]
Originally by: Katia Tae Edited by: Katia Tae on 12/02/2007 11:52:17 There is so much noise in here it is hard to hear . . .
The single root cause to all of this: a Dev was allowed to play in a player corp/alliance at a high level. Period. If devs were not allowed to play within player corps and alliances, then none of this would have happened. Friends would not have been made, favortism would not have evolved to where it was at.
I believe devs should be allowed to be in game, but not in a manner that they have in the past. It is clear there is a conflict of interest.
Why do you think T20 was comfortable in the role he had in the player corp/alliance? Becuase it is the environment that was fostered within CCP. Come on folks, the dev's are co-workers, friends even, who work next to each other. You can not tell me that this was a single dev issue.
T20 is the scapegoat, nothing more. He was caught. He was only doing and was comfortable with what he was doing because "everyone" else was. He was simply caught.
That is the root cause and it MUST be addressed. It is clear CCP can not fire the whole staff. Why do you think they made the statement that dev's will continue to play the game as they see fit? Because if they pull all the devs from the game now, I'm sure several major corps/alliances would feel the impact at the highest levels.
It's your game CCP, clearly it is not ours. We are just pawns to the gods.
If the Dev's and CCP will continue to do what they see fit, continue to stay in players corps, being Director's, be fleetcommanders and so forth then Eve-Online is a fraud.
Now I want see that statement from Kieron himself who has handled this matter as an amateur so far.
|
Maze La'Zie
Caldari Technology La'Zie
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:01:00 -
[2853]
Ok - I'm three days late - I've been away all weekend.
Thank you t20 for your apology. I hope you keep your job, having learnt from your mistakes.
I look forward to the new sa***uards and procedures that will arise from these event.
The whole thing just makes me sad - I love this game and CCP have generally shown great dedication and support for the playerbase.
To those players still calling for blood - please try and help the healing process rather than making the situation worse.
BOB/RKK - you could help by donating ISK, say 15b, to a good cause - Sisters of Eve or something.
Let's get through this.
___________________ Chief Scientific Officer Technology La'Zie Author of The End |
Serpensis
Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:01:00 -
[2854]
It makes me wonder what never makes it into the light of day. Who is to say this hasnt been done before, and by others? A sad day for EVE, and the community.
Who watches the watchers? -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty." |
Samuel Freedom
Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:05:00 -
[2855]
And so the seemingly unstopable juggernaut continues.......
100 pages plus and still alot of unanswered questions, alot and very few answered, I can wait
P.S.
Can someone answer me this though, I see a few people posting 'BOD' im guessing it is a play on words of sorts for BOB I.E. BOD = Band Of Dev's ? or is it a legitimate allaince with a differnt name or something ?
|
Helox
Gallente Demonic Retribution Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:07:00 -
[2856]
Originally by: Samuel Freedom And so the seemingly unstopable juggernaut continues.......
100 pages plus and still alot of unanswered questions, alot and very few answered, I can wait
I bet they use this thread to let people blow off steam. Once this slows down the thread will be locked and later on deleted. Bussiness as usual will ensue... --
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head -- READ! |
Samuel Freedom
Minmatar Ramdon Industries corporation
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:15:00 -
[2857]
Edited by: Samuel Freedom on 12/02/2007 12:11:51
Originally by: Helox
Originally by: Samuel Freedom And so the seemingly unstopable juggernaut continues.......
100 pages plus and still alot of unanswered questions, alot and very few answered, I can wait
I bet they use this thread to let people blow off steam. Once this slows down the thread will be locked and later on deleted. Bussiness as usual will ensue...
yea your possibly right but this will be thrown up whenever there is a slight deviance of one thing or another and it does have the potential not to destroy but ruin the game.
Really though on CCP behalf it is looking more and more like Monty Python sketch and we as a community are probably not taking and dealing with this very well but it does hurt when people lie about lieing and omit the truth.
P.s what about the question in the second part of my post!!
|
Sir BuildALot
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:21:00 -
[2858]
Originally by: TZeer
Molle post RL info on forums, nothing happens. Kugustsumen do the same, gets banned for it.
The Mittani posted RL information on the forums he is still in game to and he did it on numerous occasions and not just the one Molle did!
1st
2nd (post 381)
|
RadarJack
Amarr Solar Storm X-PACT
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:23:00 -
[2859]
Sound plausable.
But I know of 2 publications that are gathering information both in and out of game to run editorial pieces on corruption effects in MMO's for consumption by the general PC game playing public.
I can't see CCP coming off smelling of roses in those...
|
Nils Bohr
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:25:00 -
[2860]
Edited by: Nils Bohr on 12/02/2007 12:22:58
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Let me quote something:
[...]I wish to make it clear that I acted alone and my co-workers and corp/alliance mates have been cleared of any alleged wrongdoing. [...]
That means T20 worked alone.
Wow, that's a great quote. Here's another one for you:
Originally by: t20 Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level. We don't know more than you do, We don't have GM modules fitted, We petition our losses just the same way you do ...
That means t20 is a bald-faced liar ... unless, of course, you do know how to spawn fraudulent T2 BPOs for yourself and your buddies.
And, tbqh, we're not playing on the same level. Cheaters like t20 make that impossible.
|
|
Logan Feynman
Constructive Influence
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:32:00 -
[2861]
Edited by: Logan Feynman on 12/02/2007 12:29:39 Kugutsumen on BoB
|
D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:32:00 -
[2862]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 12/02/2007 12:30:05
Originally by: RadarJack Sound plausable.
But I know of 2 publications that are gathering information both in and out of game to run editorial pieces on corruption effects in MMO's for consumption by the general PC game playing public.
I can't see CCP coming off smelling of roses in those...
i assume one of them is "pcgamer uk" alot of there staff play eve and doubt they are very happy about this whole afair.
lets hope ccp staff are willing to give them interviews, if they decline i can imagine there article beeing extremly bad for ccp's reputation.
i hate everything that has happened but i would hate to see the best mmo there currently is see a stong decline in potential subscribers.
lets not forget ccp relys on the ammount of people subscribing out weighing the people leaving.
according to that dev blog ages ago most people only play eve for around 7-9 months.
LETS FACE IT EVEN WITH ALL THE CRAP THAT HAS KICKED OFF RECENTLY EVE-ONLINE IS STILL THE BEST MMO AROUND RIGHT NOW!
------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance i belong to. |
OneSock
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:34:00 -
[2863]
Originally by: Katia Tae Edited by: Katia Tae on 12/02/2007 11:52:17
The single root cause to all of this: a Dev was allowed to play in a player corp/alliance at a high level. Period. If devs were not allowed to play within player corps and alliances, then none of this would have happened. Friends would not have been made, favortism would not have evolved to where it was at.
/signed.
I don't see why devs shouldn't join corps. but for them to hold a high rank in a corp or alliance is plain wrong.
|
rafaman
New European Regiment THE H0RDE
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:37:00 -
[2864]
This is the type of thing that can kill a game. And this has only one cause. The fact that employees of CCP can play the game.
I've read that its impossible to develop a game like this without first hand experince. I dont understand this statement. If its possible to build an entire OS based on user feedback, if its possible to build other great games bases on user input... why this must be different for CCP?
IN my opinion Its a conflict of interests to have CPP staff playing EVE. I can see many reasons for that.
First of all devs and others in the company knows the mechanics of the game better than enyone. And that includes any tricks (even if ok under EULA), locations of stuff, market data and other precious intel that the regular player does not have access. Or at least cant have access on a easy manner.
Second, a CCP member will be an important asset in any corp for the reasons stated above and in other posts. This means that a corp that has CCP members will have an unfair advantage over the others.
Finally to the players, like myself, that have to pay good money in order to play this game, its frustrating to know that there are players ingame that work for CCP and because of that they have first hand knowledge of the game and take advantage of this knowledge. You can say that dev logs show no misscondut. Who can asure us that there arent back-doors and un-logged tricks in game that where put in place by the devs that actually plays in the game?
My personal opinion is that CCP employees should not be able to play this game on the Tranquility server. There is a clear conflict of interests here and there are other ways to develop this amazing game without having first person experience. And that is by getting people to give you the feedback you need.
Get people testing Betas at earlier stages. Offer free subscriptions or time codes to the guys that contribute more for the Beta stages. Let the devs and other ccp staff to use the test server.
EVE is a great game because anyone can aspire to be amoung the best in it. But as things are now, even with a tight control of what the CCP devs do in game, its impossible to deny the fact that even if the devs do play without any tricks or back-doors abuse, they still have that extra intel access that no one else in game can have. And that makes them having an unfair advantage over everyone else.
My 2 cents.
PS: Its not this issue that is going to affect my game play or the way I see EVE. But as a paying custumer for almost 1 year I feel somewhat disapointed with all of this.
|
Plan Neun
Caldari Ganja Unlimited CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:38:00 -
[2865]
Originally by: Logan Feynman Edited by: Logan Feynman on 12/02/2007 12:29:39 Kugutsumen on BoB
Lauging my A off. So this how an exotic dancer look when treatet badly in deep space over a long time.
Thanx for the laugh.
Cheers
|
Leggy Bare
Caldari Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:39:00 -
[2866]
Apparently this issue is so insignificant CCP took the weekend off! I continue to be amazed by their(lack of)response to this situation. A problem that could have been dealt with quickly in June has snow-balled out of control. Does CCP not get this? This WILL cost them money and respect. The only question now is how MUCH.
*sigh* I AM an Alt. I am Freaky Bare's sexy sister. Contrary to Corpmembers opinion, I am NOT Freaky in drag. This forum hates Freaky Bare and does not like to allow him to post here. |
Nils Bohr
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:39:00 -
[2867]
Originally by: comrade christopher Just imagine what kind of hell t20 is going through atm. I believe that from all ppl in CCP he would now be the last one to breach of community confidence.
Comrade, I'm not convinced t20 needs to be fired, but I'm afraid I don't share your optimism about his character. The guy who lectured us about "sportsmansship" even after he'd spawned some fraudulent T2 BPOs for himself and his buddies to use just doesn't strike me as being someone who deserves a vote of confidence.
It's to your credit that you feel otherwise. Just don't expect everyone to agree.
|
merc999
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:45:00 -
[2868]
Edited by: merc999 on 12/02/2007 12:42:36 I freelance for a very large publishing house, that has 100's of weekly and monthly titles ( mainly B2B but some specialist interst magazines.. Not **** you filthy minded beggars ) including those in the PC/Internet business. (Not my personal area).
This is being discussed within the area of the publishing house that deals with Internet issues (for those that dont know, most publishing houses now-a-days pool news stories for use throughout the titles they own) so I expect this will emerge in more than one title and in more than magazines just devoted to gaming.
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:50:00 -
[2869]
Originally by: Helox
Originally by: Samuel Freedom And so the seemingly unstopable juggernaut continues.......
100 pages plus and still alot of unanswered questions, alot and very few answered, I can wait
I bet they use this thread to let people blow off steam. Once this slows down the thread will be locked and later on deleted. Bussiness as usual will ensue...
SOE tried that with SWG after the NGE, it worked horribly. No they aren't going to get the rage to burn out that way.
They are going to have to take steps, very strong measures to show that they are changing and that the players are really deciding the fate of the galaxy.
Noone believes that t20 acted alone, nor does anyone believe that it was just the 6 BPOs. Its the nature of things, a slip of the tongue here or there, and there'd be no real records of it, but at the same time it would still be out there.
I posted it way back.
1. t20 needs to be fired. I'm sorry, I have no personal beef and I do feel he is the scapegoat, but he clearly violated published corp rules and thus should pay the penalty. If he can't be fired due to Icelandic law he should be moved to another section of the game preferably one where he has little to no access to any sensitive data. I'm sure when he was hired he signed numerous NDAs most of which he's violated by now.
2. Again nothing personal but we need to show that we are being fair and balanced. SirMolle and all accounts that have ever logged from his same ISPN need to be banned. He posted RL personal information, he knew that was against the rules, and he knew the punishment outlined. They banned Kugs for it and they need to ban Molle.
3. In addition to removing the BPOs they need to remove their impact from BoB. BoB's really big and this shouldn't really hurt them. Fine the BoB alliance 15 billion isk, split evenly amongh its corps, or fined entirely to one corp if it was the recipient and holder of all 6.
4. Remove the tag DEV that is in game on BoB members. This just further inflames the subscribers and is a really dumb move that doesn't really help BoB's cause. (Unless actually all these people are DEVs).
5. CCP needs to release a statement signed by all members of the developer and GM staffs that they will cease and desist any outside assistance they may be rendering to any in game entities or personages. It should clearly state the penalty is termination of employment and permaban from the game. Perhaps even offer an amnesty period for Devs and GMs to come forward at this point and reveal improper actions they have done. Correct any such actions to the best of the ability of the software and developers.
I'm not even sure if those 5 steps would completely undo the damage, but I do feel confident they would show to the majority that CCP is serious.
You need to act quickly though, I saw the damage done to SOE and that could easily be done to CCP and EVE if this is allowed to continue. It should be a priority to resolve as many of these issues as is possible this week, possibly even today.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:54:00 -
[2870]
Originally by: Leggy Bare Apparently this issue is so insignificant CCP took the weekend off! I continue to be amazed by their(lack of)response to this situation. A problem that could have been dealt with quickly in June has snow-balled out of control. Does CCP not get this? This WILL cost them money and respect. The only question now is how MUCH.
SOE after the release of the NGE ( which was less than 1/3rd complete at time of release) took Thanksgiving Vacation and Christmas vacations rather than trying to fix their game. It is another reason that they received such negative coverage almost universally.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
|
|
Katia Tae
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:55:00 -
[2871]
Originally by: rafaman I've read that its impossible to develop a game like this without first hand experince. I dont understand this statement. If its possible to build an entire OS based on user feedback, if its possible to build other great games bases on user input... why this must be different for CCP?
Speaking as a developer myself who's been doing this for a couple of decades (yes, I'm that old), I've worked mostly on financial and document imaging systems. That's applications such as general ledger, accounts payable, payroll, human resources, etc.
I am not an accountant, nor do I know anything about employee hiring, firing, benefits, etc. I've never had to actually use/work on the systems that I have developed/maintained over the years.
I am able to meet the requirements that the clients establish as to what they would like their application to do. I don't have to understand their business, sure it helps if I do, but if I don't I usually work closely with a business analyst if there is a requirement that I do not completely understand.
Also, someone made the comment earlier about developers would never test in production. LOL, you bet we do. However, I like to call it validating in production and not testing.
|
Helox
Gallente Demonic Retribution Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 12:55:00 -
[2872]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Perhaps even offer an amnesty period for Devs and GMs to come forward at this point and reveal improper actions they have done. Correct any such actions to the best of the ability of the software and developers.
This is actually a VERY good idea. --
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head -- READ! |
Tarmiriel
ASSASSIN SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:14:00 -
[2873]
Mecinia Lua's post pretty much sums up what would seem to work best in this case.
This is all spiraling out of control......on gaming sites.......etc
Fast decisive action is the only thing that works.
We've not had that so far.
|
Mikael Deco
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:15:00 -
[2874]
I say collective punishment should be applied. If one dev cheats then all devs gets their accounts deleted. Maybe then they'll start behaving in a professional manner instead of covering for each other. Also they should restart their accounts with no assests or isk (any isk transfered before deletion should be revoked if they try to store it through a 3rd party). Also t20 if he continues to be employed should only be allowed to fly amarr ships, that should be punishment enough. Collective punishment sounds harsh but CCP has already showed they are not mature enough to be objective and free of bias.
|
Barry O'mass
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:16:00 -
[2875]
He cheated he lied they lied, they messed up, it happened. I think what we need to know is that proper procedures have been put in place so something of this magnitude will not and can not happen again. Also I would like to see even handed transparent handling of what is no longer a ticking bomb, but a crater if you want us to trust you, you must regain our trust.
It happen in RL people in positions of power and responsibility slip up and life goes on, peopleÆs perceptions of that organisation change for ever and no mater how much work is put in to regaining trust there will be a wif of corruption. I just want to know that this will not happen again from a leading member of the development team. People deserve a second chance but everything that is said will be taken with a pinch of salt by me and many otherÆs
Cheating is cheating regardless of how small or big, irrespective of financial gain to BoB, the cheating has tainted many peoples views of them and completely changed the geo political landscape of eve, those who hated BoB for what ever reason have a justified reason to hate them and will hate them even more, those who feared BoB, as an uber well organised killing machine will now laugh in their face and may actually attack them and not just roll over and let them take the space. And also those alliances who could not amass the PvpÆers to take down bob now have a common banner to rally under and put aside their petty differences and attack them.
The game has changed, as a community lets keep working to change it for the better.
|
Auri Hella
The Graduates Ivy League
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:18:00 -
[2876]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua Stuff.
Hi, CCP people. Kindly read that post a few more times and take some action.
|
Sophia Germain
Gallente Fluxion
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:18:00 -
[2877]
Originally by: Helox
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Perhaps even offer an amnesty period for Devs and GMs to come forward at this point and reveal improper actions they have done. Correct any such actions to the best of the ability of the software and developers.
This is actually a VERY good idea.
I agree, very good idea indeed.
|
Skaz
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:24:00 -
[2878]
Originally by: pricecheck8 ive a question. does that dev live in iceland? i ask cause i noticed something in the blog that says "iceland only has 300,000 people".
if he does live in iceland that tells me he wont be fired no matter what cause there is not a large enough work force base to get new employees from
Eh we do fine with 300,000 ppl here thank you. Quite enough to support a viable workforce after all it's still threehundredTHOUSAND people.
Although lately it's been hard to get employees because there is almost 0% unemployment here, we're importing labor these days
But his rep will be shattered none the less...everybody over here talks - -
PINK PINK PINK PINK |
Andris
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:33:00 -
[2879]
Mecinia Lua got the most sober and intelligent post ive seen in a while, i might add one thing; an official Bob statement would be interesting to read as well, afaik there have been no responce in 3 days, makes u wonder why..... They arent known to be slow when it comes to posting in "Bob-threads".
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.02.12 13:39:00 -
[2880]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/02/2007 13:39:55 Ok, summing things up as I read them in this thread:
FACTS: A Dev spawned 5 crappy and 1 decent T2 BPO and gave them to his corp. Said dev was punished by CCP according to their internal procedures (quite fast actually). For some reason (of mistake) the spawned BPO's were not reclaimed until lately. A player posted personal information about a blackmailer on the forum. The blackmailer posted personal information about other players on the forum. The blackmailer got all his accounts banned.
RUMORS/ACCUSATIONS: (without proof) EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!
Concernal CCP's internal disciplinary processes... This is solely a matter for the CCP management team and is absolutely no concern of the EVE playerbase. As a practical matter of fact, it is pretty hard to find decent developers these days, so if they chose a disciplinary punishment less than dismissal, I find that a sensible thing to do from a business point of view.
Concerning the EULA. The EULA is there so the game company (in this case CCP), have the OPTION to act when they detect player actions which are not in the games best interest. The EULA is not a 'law' and is not the 'rules of the game'. They're merely a tool for the providing company to keep control over undesirable elements. Blackmailing other players or CCP itself is certainly an action that is not in the games best interest, so no wonder that player got his accounts banned (unfortuantely he was in a country with a shaky legal system)! Exposing said blackmailer I'd say definitely IS in the games best interest, so why should the person be punished for it, even if it is a technical EULA violation? Should all characters where a friend has once changed a skill for you be banned? Should all character who've ever used a swear word in either game chat or the forum be banned? These are technical EULA violations as well.......
Yes, I know!! In the eyes of all the whiners in this thread, I'm either: a) A BoB Alt b) A BoB lapdog c) A Dev d) All of the above...
..... or I could just be a normal EVE player thoroughly disgusted with the lynch-mob mentality of the majority of the posters in this thread!!!!
The correct procedure is, that if you have proof (yes, you know, PROOF) of any other player in the game cheating, then you inform CCP and they decide whether any cheating was done, and if so, decide whether any punishment is due. If you have no proof, then by default, that player is not cheating. You know, innocent until proven guilty. If (think) you have proof, then by default, that player is still not cheating until CCP says he is. You know, innocent until proven guilty.
The playerbase is NOT CAPABLE of deciding whether anyone has cheated, and is NOT CAPABLE of deciding whether something is 'proof' or not, simply because so large a part of it is blinded by irrational hate (or just being plain stupid)! The playerbase IS very good at throwing unfounded accusations around though (look above in this thread for examples..), but it has that little problem that the 'proof' is usually on the form 'I got pwn'd, so obviously the other guy was cheating'.
Punishing players for 'infractions' without proof would REALLY start this game spiraling downwards, so CCP are choosing the sensible path of only punishing serious infractions that are proven.
So could all of the 'we know what we know even if there is no proof' crowd please line up in front of the quit button. The game is better off without you!
General advice: Stop whining! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 99 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |