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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3844
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:02:44 -
[1] - Quote
Finally we get XP the right way. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3844
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:06:53 -
[2] - Quote
Does it have to be an NPC, what about anyone in an NPC corp |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3846
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 17:37:42 -
[3] - Quote
Poopicus Butts wrote:Are you nerds seriously complaining over free SP I'm with this guy. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3850
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 15:12:05 -
[4] - Quote
confirming that you will see 200 + Million SP characters undocking to shoot rats.
as someone who has accepted the grind of ratting for ADM I feel rewarded for that effort. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3850
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:43:33 -
[5] - Quote
The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3850
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:49:25 -
[6] - Quote
It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.
Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.
This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.
Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3850
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:57:17 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point. What 27% of base daily sp to much or to little 10k SP is basically 10% of daily maximum SP so maybe they're testing a cap. I think it should be higher.
What players are forgetting is there is a lot of psychology behind rewarding XP for active gameplay.
If I allow myself to tinfoil here, I'd say this is a move in an overall / long-term effort to completely change EVE's business model. I don't see why there would be cause for resentment. If you were a player like me who paid for subscriptions for years to passively earn SP, you should have as much SP as you paid your subscription. So you realized the full benefit of the old model.
It's valid to say instead of this strategy, why not make EVE more fun, but in terms of technical limitations, changing the way EVE works is an impossible undertaking. To put it another way, EVE has some built-in, fundamental shortcomings that I don't see changing ever, unless new mechanics are introduced that allow some twitch gameplay
such as blocking to mitigate incoming attacks. Street fighter allows you to react with a low, mid, or high block to reduce the incoming damage of an attack. Without it you end up stuck to a bubble like a bug and there's nothing for you to do except die. The shortcoming is in that players of a lot of contemporary games expect that type of twitch counteraction to be available to them in PVP situations.
Anyway I don't want to get off-topic, my point is this type of change in rewarding SP for gameplay is one of the few options available for technical reasons.
WIth Injectors players should have realized CCP is looking to cut ties with players who pay subscriptions but don't play. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3850
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 18:58:11 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.
Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.
This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.
Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail.
SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:06:27 -
[9] - Quote
There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea.
There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first.
Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:35:50 -
[10] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:It's not a stretch of the imagination to understand the benefit of awarding SP for kills eventually. Based on material costs perhaps. In that scenario, value for PLEX kills wouldn't increase the SP reward. Seems like a good measure of contributing to game activity.
Maybe the SP reward could be set by a 75% reduction of benefit compared to Injectors, so for killing an injector's going rate you get 25% of the highest SP tier (150k SP) which would be 30k or so.
This proposed SP reward for killing one NPC is very high, balanced only by the daily limit of 1. In terms of value killed vs SP it's ridiculous.
Those players who accepted the logic that SP in Injectors was earned by someone might agree that SP awarded for kills is ok when it is a result of removing value from the game through destruction. How would you account for injectors fluctuating in price of it ever happened Also is it everyone on the kill that get a split like with bounties or is it the final blow? Goblin had a good system where he paid out based on the percent damage on a killmail. SP rewarded would need to be a rolling figure based on the trading price of PLEX. Now this defiantly favors older players over newer ones And what I meant by the price not being set is what if some group tanks the market price of injectors in order to exploit this. Not saying it's likely or easy but it is a possibility to be accounted for Considering that SP and by extension Injectors are the crack cocaine of EVE I don't see this type of manipulation being possible. Local manipulation was solved with Forex, and the Greater EVE Market Cabal is only so good at manipulation either. The group you're imagining would need more market pull and coordination than anyone in EVE ever. |
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:37:02 -
[11] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Rain6639 wrote:There was a comment some pages ago where a player was unhappy about the prospect of logging in ten accounts to run dailies. For some time now I've suspected the business model is moving away from account-heavy players to single-account players who are more active. Just consider for a second that multiple accounts is very unnatural for a video game. And that perhaps if you can bring EVE back to a new normal where you are only balancing for one character per player, maybe that's a good idea.
There are some huge discomforts to experience with one character, and maybe those are the items you would want to tackle first.
Personally I think eventually we'll see EVE limited to one account logged in at a time, as a matter of policy. be a serious rework of mechanics/rules if they were to limit to 1 account at a time, having to ask other for cyno's etc will create chaos And scouting. The difficulty is in the suck factor of being a guy who just sits there doing something. Still it's not something that can't be forced on CCP's end or solved with a culture shift on the player end. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:37:50 -
[12] - Quote
guy or girl. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:40:31 -
[13] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: I think people said a similar thing about anyone buying enough to max out a toon
No they didn't. The wealth ceiling was always known to be high enough that someone would power level a character.
Controlling the price of PLEX or Injectors is something players would love to do already but it's impossible. To do it someone would have to drive down the price of Injectors AND other players would have to avoid buying them. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 19:43:01 -
[14] - Quote
good ******* luck with that |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 20:36:35 -
[15] - Quote
lol if you think you'll have any luck finding a high sec NPC after this |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 20:37:23 -
[16] - Quote
hell yes I won the high sec NPC lotto today yyyyayyyyy |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3851
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 20:38:12 -
[17] - Quote
I can already see the blobs waiting for the belt NPC to spawn in every system in high sec. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:30:51 -
[18] - Quote
There's also the thing players do in Recons in Faction Warfare. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:32:49 -
[19] - Quote
A SNOO took me out into lowsec in nano Tristans and I warped to a complex to find a Rook. It was like landing on a tarantula. It was pretty great. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:33:37 -
[20] - Quote
If belts become an incentive like this I have to say it's not a bad idea. |
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 21:53:41 -
[21] - Quote
would you find it more agreeable if it was 50 SP per NPC with a daily limit of 10k
That way your "deduction" would only realistically be realised by the most dedicated players who shoot 200 NPCs in one day. Perhaps you can then admit the problem is that you just won't undock for whatever reason? |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:01:59 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia seriously do you have a character that has engaged in PVP or PVE ever, it would help me take you seriously right now. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:08:22 -
[23] - Quote
I just disqualified your logic or reasoning forever pal |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:12:58 -
[24] - Quote
It's an uncomfortable imperfect carrot, EVE tends to have those. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:34:41 -
[25] - Quote
actually it's chase the carrot or you get the no carrot.
I forego training implants in my PVP characters, same thing. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 22:46:49 -
[26] - Quote
wat |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3853
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:02:13 -
[27] - Quote
I can not pvp without logging in too
scratch that, what I should say is you've lost me, and I think anyone else too. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:07:18 -
[28] - Quote
I'll just pretend my goal was to misconstrue the discussion and that I've succeeded. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:13:39 -
[29] - Quote
and it will be a whole new world.
I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things.
Just go with it. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:15:04 -
[30] - Quote
also don't try to logic crazy people who have their own agenda. |
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 23:16:04 -
[31] - Quote
I'm definitely not talking about CCP, just what makes for a happier life in general. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 00:16:33 -
[32] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:and it will be a whole new world.
I just want to share some basic advice going forward. CCP will do what they want. Assuming that is true, what's important as an individual player is making sure you get over the feelings and try to make best with how it changes things.
Just go with it. Know what I think I would feel much better if ccp did one of two things A. Clearly explain how they belive yelling people how and how often to play their game fits what they feel eve is Even if what they feel eve is is differant from what they felt in the past at least be upfront about it. Or have the respect to tell us this really is nothing more than an attempt at raising numbers Now I know I won't get this answer just because there is no way they can read post by post and see this but I suppose I'll try Their ability to give levelheaded explanations about the motivations behind changes left with Soundwave |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 00:52:25 -
[33] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too?
As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 01:27:42 -
[34] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: falcons pretty good about it to.. though i havent seen anything from him is he gone too?
As far as I know Falcon is still kicking. He's okay and he has that older brother type of thing going on but he's still not how Soundwave used to be, very forthcoming especially in person. oh certainly not as good as soundwave but there is a chance with his still there to get a clear answer watch fanfest and eve vegas presentations by both devs consecutively and tell me what you think |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 03:28:07 -
[35] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote:This really needs to be expanded to all forms of professions, and not be restricted to warping to a belt, killing a rat and logging off. All of the other choices should be just as easy as shooting a belt rat.
A few examples... -Scanning any signature to 100% -Put 1,000,000 isk worth of stuff on the market -Completing a cycle on a mining laser -Completing any mission -Start or complete, research or production on a blueprint etc no this really needs to not be implemented as there is no way to cover every play style in a balanced way I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3854
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 04:28:38 -
[36] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote: I kind of thought it was a good point, perhaps the daily bonus could cycle between different tasks.
lol so not only does everyone now have to grind but now everyone needs to grind crap they have 0 interest in? you don't have to do anything. It's not your primary source of SP, it's an incentive. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 10:51:27 -
[37] - Quote
I just want to add that playing is a punishment for playing thanks |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:09:59 -
[38] - Quote
Thanks for the reply Rise, it was well-written.
I'm happy about the news of your awareness of market crashes due to item giveaways. I hope there is a commitment to creating new items for the sake of giveaways, as someone who has 1,000 of a particular SKIN. It's been so long that I've accepted the possibility and would just post about it for the schadenfreude, but there's also the basic principle that you shouldn't be so careless with player item values.
Is there a possibility for adjustments to the reward model, and what might they look like? SP distributed over several NPC kills or actions, higher or lower ceiling for daily SP bonus, etc? |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:11:55 -
[39] - Quote
Also, does that mean you're looking for ways to generate logins? |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:17:10 -
[40] - Quote
I suggest allowing us to select up to 24 hours of just-trained SP to be moved to unallocated.
One of the biggest problems with releasing new modules and skills is the rush to catch up to where we'd like to be with the skill levels. This stop-and-go is forcing us to constantly be in a state of less-than-optimal skill training.
For me, nearly all of my characters are fully trained spec V in all the ships I want. What I'd really like to do is start training to unallocated instead of picking new skills just to have my skill queue running. If I could train to unallocated, I'd be able to dump millions of SP into things like Capital Gunnery Specializations as soon as they arrive.
I think you have a valid point that SP is a very universal incentive, and instead of giving more of it, perhaps if you allowed us more control over the allocation instead, more players would find it agreeable. |
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Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:20:40 -
[41] - Quote
The alternative would be releasing the skill books well in advance so we can train them. The Capital Gunnery Specializations, for example, are rank 10 and there are six of them coming, for a total of 15 million SP. To make that transition fair we would need nearly a year of advanced notice and availability.
If we can train to unallocated instead, that makes us futureproof for any new skills and we don't have to get caught with our pants down. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3855
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:21:26 -
[42] - Quote
And by only allowing us to move the previous 24 hours to unallocated, you get your daily logins. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3856
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 18:54:28 -
[43] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it. Well, with the advent of skill injectors skill points have a direct ISK price. 10,000 SP equals about 13,000,000 ISK at current injector prices. If you take diminishing returns in account, it's even higher. Currently I'm in the 50m-80m SP bracket, so accruing 30 days of daily SP rewards would mean that I've saved myself about 650m ISK by not buying someone's injector. You're still sabotaging someone's gameplay, namely people who provide injectors for the market. Moreover, people who can't log in for whatever reason would be disproportionally punished by not getting their daily rewards. For example, last year, I had no access to EVE for two and a half months. If this feature was present at the time, I would've lost about 750,000 SP by not logging in, even though my skill queue was still running during that period. This reward goes straight against a core tenet of the game and will alienate people and cause burnout. If offering something else than SP means that people would be uninterested in daily rewards, it just means that daily rewards really have no place in this game. an injector's worth of SP every two weeks is good. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 01:37:59 -
[44] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ligraph wrote:The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats. most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive no that was injectors. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 01:38:45 -
[45] - Quote
just go with it |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 01:48:18 -
[46] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Pryce Caesar wrote:Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you? No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together. null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3858
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 02:02:45 -
[47] - Quote
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3859
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 02:36:16 -
[48] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3859
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 11:27:43 -
[49] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ben Ishikela wrote:Tomika wrote:baltec1 wrote:It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. That ended with injectors. To be exact, it ended with Character Basar. But then again, there was something before that. At least the bizarre was a lessor of two evils used to stop illegal character trading And at least injectors don't have the same physiological component to them (however I still belive injectors were bad)
I don't know if you can call them bad but it was a fundamental shift. |
Rain6639
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3860
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 15:52:33 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks Reallocating previously trained SP is a better incentive but okay. |
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