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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
528
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Posted - 2016.04.12 06:58:18 -
[1201] - Quote
This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.
Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock. If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system...
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1888
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:09:14 -
[1202] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.
Rise do you really think giving 3 650 000 SP = 4 900 000 000 ISK at current prices to be hardcore gameplay? Undock, warp to anomaly, shoot rat, dock. If you think this is good proposal I don't want to know what you guys baking with tribute system...
Don't forget this is just the first daily the op dais they ate planning to add more so it's much more than 3 650 000
Citadel worm hole tax
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
294
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:12:32 -
[1203] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Then perhaps CCP needs to look at what makes people not wanting to log into game in the first place? I can tell you that from personal experience sometimes I run out of ideas to do stuff in EVE. What left then is scripted and very dull and plain activities aka missions, can hacking, ect. Then for people who have enough or just dont care about ISK have basicly no incentive to log in after they entered "cool down on ideas" phase. Reason I am against dailies is simply because in the long run they will burn out player. Sometimes to point that they will just not going to log in no matter what incentive and leave the game. Because in the end. Playing game for fun and giggles isnt thats all what games should be? And if game simply isnt fun then perhaps working on that should be focus and not on carrot that will keep that horse running for another mile.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17553
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:15:32 -
[1204] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:True as that may be.
Think of what Eve would be like if CCP found a way to appeal to the general and largest game playing market, the 14 to 20 year old's. Opportunities and the such (dailies) are not much more than marketing tools used by companies to attract not only existing players to log in but new players to join in.
SWG tried to target that group and lost 90% of their population in months. That group doesn't exist and changing core concepts of the game to try and chase them will only alienate the current players. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17553
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:20:01 -
[1205] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:
No I'm not, how did you come to that conclusion? I think that logging once per day to kill a single NPC is a grinding chore and just because I'm okay with CCP rewarding people who log in everyday doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer if this system was done in a way that doesn't reward menial tasks. And people who are not logged on play the game? LOL - maybe in few rare cases, like coalition leaders. It's the number of logged players that keeps the game alive, not the number of someone's forum posts. Just like people who mererly play skill queue online don't contribute anything to the game.
How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day? |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5777
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:23:35 -
[1206] - Quote
Without going through 1202 posts, has this stupid idea been reversed yet?
Didn't we just recently get rid of the previous 'log in everyday or fall behind in SP' feature, the 24 hour skill queue limit? And now some fool wants to bring it back?
If you want an incentive to get people to log in to do PVE (which isn't a bad idea in itself), how about converting your highest bounty tick for the day into bonus CONCORD LP via some calculation? That will be an incentive to undock a PVE ship daily without being a 'Play EVE this way, or fall behind' mechanic.
Maybe not CONCORD, but maybe LP that are suited to the area of space you were ratting in. That might be even better.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Erihn Sabrovich
5
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:31:43 -
[1207] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.
The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content...
Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...
New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics - new missions - new exploration sites ...
To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games).
I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules).
Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case.
1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers...
But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all... |
Ria Nieyli
43381
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:35:44 -
[1208] - Quote
Rain6639 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17631
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:38:15 -
[1209] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.
Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
At the time the skillqueue was introduced, CCP said, quite correctly in my opinion, that they wanted to make EVE a game that peeople logged in to because they wanted to, not because they'd lose out on skillpoints if they didn't.
Evidently this ambition has now been abandoned. What a shame.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17559
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:38:16 -
[1210] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics ...
That's tools not content=ƒÿë |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1890
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:39:23 -
[1211] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours. Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business. Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.
The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content... Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... New content is about - new ships - new structures - new modules (or module changes) - new game mechanics - new missions - new exploration sites ... To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games). I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules). Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case. 1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers... But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all...
Poe's law is hitting so hard with this post
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1890
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:40:10 -
[1212] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Rain6639 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null.
... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship
Citadel worm hole tax
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Ria Nieyli
43382
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:41:54 -
[1213] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Rain6639 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rain6639 wrote:my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes. You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null. ... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship
The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
530
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:43:56 -
[1214] - Quote
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1891
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:48:52 -
[1215] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null.
The only difference is it forces me to use a mixed fleet rather than rewarding that I do and the system is always vulnerable
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1891
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:49:37 -
[1216] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Erihn Sabrovich wrote:Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content... Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months. No no you see that's no content it's just players doing things
Citadel worm hole tax
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Charles Surge
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
23
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:50:58 -
[1217] - Quote
The reward should be on log-in, especially since the "tribute" system will be removed from "daily" stuff.
Many insanely active players do not shoot rats. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
530
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:54:55 -
[1218] - Quote
Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1891
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 07:56:39 -
[1219] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off.
God those ate some of the most irritating things in games
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tomika
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:57:34 -
[1220] - Quote
All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway |
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
469
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Posted - 2016.04.12 07:59:12 -
[1221] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day? In style
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Violence of Action.
82
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:00:20 -
[1222] - Quote
Tomika wrote:All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway Then we can just point back to all these posts as our reason for quitting. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
318
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:12:05 -
[1223] - Quote
Please reconsider this idea Rise... Are you not noticing the amount of abuse you are likely to get at Fanfest next week should this idea not be scrapped? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1896
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:15:19 -
[1224] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Please reconsider this idea Rise... Are you not noticing the amount of abuse you are likely to get at Fanfest next week should this idea not be scrapped?
O.o that sounds a bit threat-ish
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
318
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:16:52 -
[1225] - Quote
Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1896
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:21:30 -
[1226] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea)
LoL
And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players
Citadel worm hole tax
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NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
148
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:22:03 -
[1227] - Quote
No thanks |
Circumstantial Evidence
291
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 08:26:41 -
[1228] - Quote
"Don't shoot the messenger" - new features go through lots of meetings and arguments, before we hear about them here. It's better to use the collective phrase "CCP please..." ;-) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1896
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:31:57 -
[1229] - Quote
Please let ccp see this
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
318
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:32:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players
It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces.
Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase... |
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