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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Jack Growler
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2016.04.13 12:12:41 -
[1411] - Quote
Cynical-Saint Sunji wrote:I think your goal would be better achieved if there was an SP rate boost any time you have a Limited Engagement Timer.
It is a better indicator of someone creating content. And the more content they create, the more SP they gain.
It also doesn't discourage the players that are bad at it. You may get blown up every time you engage someone, but you gain SP because you are at least out creating content.
Terrible idea. People shooting their alts all day. The content is real. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
758
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Posted - 2016.04.13 12:31:56 -
[1412] - Quote
The salt is real. It's funny though because after having read mos tof the complaints, absolutely none of them hold any water in the current implementation of Eve. Allow me to explain.
You have Joe, he has an alt account that he PLEXes. This account has 3 characters, two of them are Cyno Alts or Trading alts or [instert usefull alt here] so Joe is getting worth out of his PLEX. The 3rd character is not in fact used for anything other than gaining SP, extracting the SP and selling the injectors for isk. He more or less manages to fund this account by doing that. This SP also, by the way, 'appears out of thin air' more or less, requiring a plex to generate them.
Now you have Bob. Bob runs incursions/missions/null rats/[inster isk making activity here]. He uses that ISK that he grinds by spending time in game to buy Joe's skill injectors.
Now explain to me how SP that is being generated out of thin air (Requiring a Plex) and then being traded for isk is different to SP that is generated by killing an NPC ever 22h (requiring a paid account) are different form each other? Even if you switch out the SP reward form the dailies to ISK, how is it any different to buy SP (farmed with an SP alt) with that isk? It's not.
See, with SP extractors and injectors you can justify this feature. Those who advocate(d) for, or were indifferent to, Injectors but are now kicking up against daily SP opportunities unfortunately don't have any ground to stand on. It's that slippery slope people were talking about back when SP injectors were first talked about.
That said, I'm happy to sit back and see if this will grow eve, kill it, change the playerbase/demographic forever or have no real effect whatsoever. I just don't have any investment in the outcome at all and will happily enjoy the ride.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.1
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
358
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Posted - 2016.04.13 12:32:11 -
[1413] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Another small update:
Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.
Thanks
'while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training.' From your companies skill injectors blog. What I want to know is why CCP lied to us? I guess CCP's words are worth null. Is that the case Rise?
Getting SP from killing npc's still breaks the premise of the sandbox in that people don't have to knowingly grind to benefit and breaks the immersion of eve. |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
156
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Posted - 2016.04.13 12:57:58 -
[1414] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback
Wrong date for aprils fool.
But seriously a good thing in eve was that you have to wait some time to get in some new ships and everybody skills at the same speed. First there comes the skill injector then this comes. The next thing would be you get SP for killing every NPC or some special NPC`s with a dimishing return. Don-¦t ruin what makes Eve unique.
-1 |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
156
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:12:43 -
[1415] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.
Why Dailies? So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
Why Skillpoints? There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it.
Why so lazy? Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting.
New players Seeing a lot of talk about this feature in the context of new players and I can just say that this is not a new player targeted feature. We hope it's good for new players as well but for the feature to be successful it needs to be relevant to everyone.
Wow CCP And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.
Hope some of this helps. We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior.
And how about still no. If people want SP --> they should buy injectors (and yes this was a bad idea too, but there was not crafted SP i was just transfered which was important for CCP (at this time)).
I don-¦t wanna be forced to do some things just to stay on the same skill speed as other pilots. The implants are a aceptabel evil but no more extra sp gain or just make it for all the same same base speed and everybody gets the same 10k /day unlocated.
-1 |
Aydan Talvanen
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
6
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Posted - 2016.04.13 13:19:22 -
[1416] - Quote
Aaaannnd the monstrosity is already on Singularity. What a horrible day to wake up to.
http://i.imgur.com/v3tZxkN.png |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5041
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Posted - 2016.04.13 13:38:05 -
[1417] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Tippia wrote:(...) Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue. His explanation is nonsensical. The extended skill queue did not stop people from logging in daily, because it never required you to do so to begin with. The extended skill queue meant that people could stuff several weeks or months of skills into the queue, as opposed to maybe 30 days tops. If it had been a daily requirement to update your skill queue, the dip he's talking about should have manifested when the queue was first implemented, not 7 years later. He can claim otherwise until he's blue in the face, but that's just a fact of how the skill queue worked. He's going to have to come up with something far more clever if he want to argue against reality. His explanation is not a reason not to make it a weekly (or even monthly) tally; it's a pisspoor attempt at hiding the intent of the change: forcing people to log in more often than they've done since 2008.(...) Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it. In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down. So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense. We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox. As someone who would profit from this measure (pennies from heaven just for playing my way), I am perfectly OK with it. To me, it's a nice bribe to counter the desperate stupidity of higher NPC taxes in the futile attempts to make Citadels into acceptable trade hubs. How is Dailies gonna fix this? If PVEers are quitting because of burnout from PVE then dailies wouldn't make PVE any more interesting. Instead they will most lkely just log in a do dailies and then log out afterwards until they burn out of that as well which in the end may extend their activity for 1-2 weeks but still wouldn't make them return to the game. I have been in many games where I slowly drifted into the 'just do dailies and then log out' cycle as I was burning out of the game and it honestly leaves a rather negative experiance of the game.
Dailies are a fix to "people don't log for skill queue and that's bad". They're a small bribe and probably will only benefit people who would be killing that NPC anyway -true PvErs.
The PvE side of dwindling PCU is just kinda hopeless. Supposedly we should see a Devblog on it next month by CCP Affinitty, but based on what she shared at EVE Vegas, CCP's plans for PvE are half a million miles out of outch with reality, probably by lack of actually engaging PvErs and rather listening to the CSM, reddit, the forums, 99% of blogs and anyone who opens his mouth on what do PvErs "want". Not to mention that plans for PvE are for a span of 2 or 3 years.
As I said, this daily bribe is like buying a sticker for the coffin of the victim after he spent three days waiting at the ER room. It is appreciated but it's been stated that it's not about PvErs. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
721
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:53:53 -
[1418] - Quote
I dont know why everyone is still bashing PvE so much, CCP has tried to make it better and not without success. Doing sites in a Marauder is pretty engaging and comes quite close to being fun if you dont do it all the time.
It can be positively thrilling if you sit with 5b worth of marauders in a c5 anomaly and accidentally trigger 2 battleship waves at once. I overloaded both reppers and just barely survived in deep structure, with burning modules. It almost felt like pvp :)
.
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Aydan Talvanen
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
8
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:06:24 -
[1419] - Quote
Yay! Daily completed!
http://extrazoom.com/image-57157.html?heuln50x50
-¼-¼' |
Lavayar
Russian SOBR Dream Fleet
261
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:10:54 -
[1420] - Quote
Sad Day For EvE |
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Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
482
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:11:17 -
[1421] - Quote
Last time the PCU were at today's level was what, 07-08? They "fixed" that by releasing content that excited players, like t2 ships and FW and then came Apocrypha which gave the entire game a boost.
I mean, hell, if you really wanted to juice the numbers, release a mobile app already. We've had smartphones for nearly a decade, the jury is in; the hype is real. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat FETID
2697
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:14:55 -
[1422] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:Last time the PCU were at today's level was what, 07-08? They "fixed" that by releasing content that excited players, like t2 ships and FW and then came Apocrypha which gave the entire game a boost.
I mean, hell, if you really wanted to juice the numbers, release a mobile app already. We've had smartphones for nearly a decade, the jury is in; the hype is real.
smartphone app would certainly do all kinds of wonders for login numbers
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
157
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:15:14 -
[1423] - Quote
All wasted feedback once again, this is merely an announcement thread.
More disappointed than anything really. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
544
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:24:19 -
[1424] - Quote
Real "Thrill of the hunt". It should be named "Slaughter of the Lambs".
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
2046
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:27:52 -
[1425] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Logging in just to kill a single NPC is fun and interesting - CCP
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2699
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:32:26 -
[1426] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting. Logging in just to kill a single NPC is fun and interesting - CCP
that make me laugh and i actually pee'd a little
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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neofa008
Insomnia Aphrodisia
0
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:43:15 -
[1427] - Quote
Srsly, wtf?
Stop doing **** |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
482
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:48:17 -
[1428] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:smartphone app would certainly do all kinds of wonders for login numbers Sure would if you put them together. What does it matter to me if the market orders got updated through someone's computer or someone's iphone? This module I bought got invented and manufactured by someone who logged in with the app, oh the horror! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27391
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:55:16 -
[1429] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, I've been discussing a lot the steep decline in PCU. My main argument being (and is) that most people pay CCP for the PvE, PvE is a short career with poor quality and that kills population faster than anything else in the game, thus in the last years people who start playing are outnumbered by the continued pressure of quitting PvErs. That drives PCU down despite all of CCP's increasingly desperate efforts to improve PvP, quality of life and anything but PvE as PvErs want it.
In this context, one of the usual counter-arguments is that multiple character training and long skillqueues are to blame for PCU going down.
So when CCP comes and tells us that unlimited skillqueues have taken a toll on server population after Phoebe, I am more or less willing to take their word for it. It goes a bit against my main argument but makes sense.
It's not the notion that the infiniqueue lowered logins that I'm objecting to GÇö everyone knew that would happen; indeed it was by far the strongest argument against doing it. When it was announced, people explicitly and openly embraced the concept exactly because they could now stuff the queue and not log in for months on end.
No, the bullshit I'm objecting to is his attempt at using it as an argument why this new abortion needs to come in the form of a daily, suggesting that skill changes were a form of GÇ£dailyGÇ¥ in the olden days. This, of course, is nonsense and even a cursory glance at the queue itself by a 1-day old player will dispel that notion. He's engaging in some Chris Roberts-level history revisionism when he tries to suggest that the 24h queue made people log in daily, and that it's therefore ok to force people to log in daily to collect their SP bribes. Even before the queue existed, there was no daily requirement GÇö you mashed a bunch of lvl IGÇôIII skills into a single session, then set off a lvl IV or V that would last you until your next login.
If we use reality rather than history revisionism as our basis, the 24h queue demonstrates that a weekly or even monthly requirement would be suitable to get the numbers up without disrupting everyone's regular play. And of course, that's just assuming that some kind of rewards grind is implemented at all, but that's where the real folly of his argument rears its head.
By making the ignorant skill queue comparison, he accidentally proved that the Daily Opportunity proposal was completely pointless. Apparently, the infniniqueue cause logins to drop dramatically GÇö no surprise there. The solution to that problem is not to drive away even more players by forcing them to grind dull content; the solution is to remove the cause of the drop GÇö remove the infiniqueue. It'll be controversial and they'll be hated for it, but what's the difference from the grief they're getting now? With that kind of move, they would actually be able to make a historic argument: it worked just fine before; it'll work just fine again. Combine it with the clustered play types they figure out a year ago, and they can even make the argument that those who'd quit because they couldn't be offline for months on end are 99% likely to quit anyway, so there's no substantial loss from reinstating the 24h limit. |
Tomika
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:03:50 -
[1430] - Quote
Alright I'll be honest. Seeing that gives me a bad feeling.
I've poked a bit of fun at some complainers in the thread (Sorry. It's a character flaw, what can I say) but really... you are right. This kind of sucks.
Just like the dailies and garrison gold missions in WoW, the mere existence of this new 'opportunity' will act like a tiny itch that you want to ignore but can't because you'd be dumb not to just reach and scratch it.
I mean, I will do those missions because I'd be dumb not to, right? But the fact it's going to put something unwanted on my to-do list bugs me. Hell, I don't even have a to-do list in EVE. But now I will. |
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
544
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:06:46 -
[1431] - Quote
Tippia wrote:By making the ignorant skill queue comparison, he accidentally proved that the Daily Opportunity proposal was completely pointless. Apparently, the infniniqueue cause logins to drop dramatically GÇö no surprise there. The solution to that problem is not to drive away even more players by forcing them to grind dull content; the solution is to remove the cause of the drop GÇö remove the infiniqueue. It'll be controversial and they'll be hated for it, but what's the difference from the grief they're getting now? With that kind of move, they would actually be able to make a historic argument: it worked just fine before; it'll work just fine again. Combine it with the clustered play types they figure out a year ago, and they can even make the argument that those who'd quit because they couldn't be offline for months on end are 99% likely to quit anyway, so there's no substantial loss from reinstating the 24h limit. What does it solve exactly? Being forced to log because of 24 que is better that dailiy? Players didn't log to play, they log to put skills into que.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Aydan Talvanen
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
10
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:08:12 -
[1432] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Alright I'll be honest. Seeing that gives me a bad feeling. I've poked a bit of fun at some complainers in the thread (Sorry. It's a character flaw, what can I say) but really... you are right. This kind of sucks. Just like the dailies and garrison gold missions in WoW, the mere existence of this new 'opportunity' will act like a tiny itch that you want to ignore but can't because you'd be dumb not to just reach and scratch it. I mean, I will do those missions because I'd be dumb not to, right? But the fact it's going to put something unwanted on my to-do list bugs me. Hell, I don't even have a to-do list in EVE. But now I will.
We have a convert. Praise Bob. |
Hra Neuvosto
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
387
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:08:26 -
[1433] - Quote
What's the lore excuse for these btw? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
27394
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 15:29:19 -
[1434] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote: What does it solve exactly? Being forced to log because of 24 que is better that dailiy? Players didn't log to play, they log to put skills into que.
It solves the exact problem that they claim they want to solve: that, just as predicted, the inifniqueue made people log in less frequently. The 24h queue does not force you to log in daily GÇö it never did. Hell, having no queue at all didn't force you to do that.
The argument that people didn't log in to play applies equally to the opportunity proposal, and thus completely debunks the notion that they're doing this to GÇ£promote activity.GÇ¥ They're doing it to artificially inflate a PR number that they accidentally deflated by changing a wholly unrelated mechanism. The difference is that the 24h queue was something you could fiddle with (while engaging in more relevant activities) during your regular play hours, be it over the weekend or biweekly or whatever, so it did not offer a distraction over more fun stuff, nor was it a demand when you didn't really have time for it. It was something you could incorporate in your regular game schedule rather than something you had to build an artificial game schedule schedule around.
It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2701
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 15:36:06 -
[1435] - Quote
Hra Neuvosto wrote:What's the lore excuse for these btw?
The lost sp from the extractors was gassed into the atmosphere and collected by various hostile npc agents, killing these npc agents grants the ability to harvest the sp into your own bad self
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
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Aydan Talvanen
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
10
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:38:24 -
[1436] - Quote
Why won't CSM talk some sense into the devs? At least they would do something for a change. |
Kieron VonDeux
153
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:49:08 -
[1437] - Quote
Aydan Talvanen wrote:Why won't CSM talk some sense into the devs? At least they would do something for a change.
I don't think that is the relationship CCP has with the CSM. |
Balta Katei
BALTAKATEI Baltakatei Heavy Industries
0
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:49:52 -
[1438] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting.
Here is my suggestion for giving SP rewards to PvP activities:
Summary
Give an SP reward if one player (Alice) destroys another player's (Bob) ship. The amount of SP rewarded is inversely proportional to the number of "relationship points" (RP) Alice has with Bob. RP is used as a tracking tool to determine how often players interact with each other. RP cannot be modified by the player.
Q&A with myself to explain
Q: What is the problem? A: In order to keep players from exploiting the "kill your own alt for PvP rewards" issue, it is necessary to track how players relate to one another.
Q: What is your solution? A: I propose that each player have a RP list in their character profile that tracks how often the player interacts with other players. The goal of RP will be to determine how "connected" a player is with another player.
Q: How would RP be tracked? A: Each player would have a list of character names and associated RP count in a tab in their Character Sheet.
Q: What can change a player's RP? A: Certain events such as destroying on-another's ship, chatting with one another, being in the same corporation at downtime, activating remote modules with one another, sending mail to one another... all would increment the RP to varying extents.
Q: Can you give me an example of how a RP would change in a fight? A: I'll keep it simple and say only killmails generate RP. Let's say Alice destroys Bob's ship. Alice is in a fleet with Charlie. Alice is tackle. Charlie is in a brawler fit. Bob has never interacted with Alice before but Bob and Charlie have fought and killed eachother many times before. When Bob's ship blows up, a killmail is generated. Immediately upon generation of the killmail, Bob's name appears in Alice's RP list for the first time and 1 RP is incremented to Bob's entry. Since Bob and Charlie have killed eachother many times in the past, Charlie is already in Bob's RP list so 1 RP is incremented to Charlie's entry. Similarly, Charlie's RP list already has Bob's name present with 7 RP; this RP increments to 8.
Q: How would SP be awarded to everyone in that fight if daily PvP SP rewards were a thing? A: Since Alice has never before interacted with Charlie, Alice only has 1 RP associated with Charlie in her list. Since she was included in the killmail of Bob's ship, let's say her SP reward is 10,000 SP. However, since Bob and Charlie already have 7 RP with eachother before the battle from previous interactions, the SP reward that Charlie receives for being on the killmail is much lower, say 78 SP (ex. formula: SP_reward = 10000*(0.5)^(RP) ). This example formula halves the amount of SP rewarded when RP increases by 1. If Alice destroyed Bob's ship again the next day for the daily PvP SP reward, she would only receive 5000 SP (half of what she got the day before). If Charlie were fleeting with Alice again for this second kill, he would only receive 39 SP.
Q: How would this solve the "kill your own alt" problem of PvP rewards? A: In my simple example, the daily SP reward goes down by half when a player tries to kill the same character twice. In order to maximize SP, players would be forced to kill many more unique characters instead of just killing the same alt over and over.
Q: What if a corporation exploited your system by undocking a large number of alts that were meant to be killed to harvest SP? A: That would be a difficult undertaking of a corporation since CCP only allows one character from one account to be logged in at any one time. If I had to propose a mitigating solution, I would suggest that CCP create an "interrelatedness" function using "degrees of separation" as an input. Basically, when a killmail is generated, you establish a small amount of RP with anyone who has also interacted (killed or been killed by) with the victim. Imagine a SP farming scenario with lots of alts being killed over and over by a large group of players until their RP is maxed out and the alt biomassed. If RP is incremented not only for those involved in the killmail, but those who interacted with those in the killmail, and those who interacted with those who interacted with those in the killmail, then the rate of RP increase of the SP farming alts would increase much faster if it were the same group of characters killing the alts. However, I imagine all the added processing power needed to do all these RP calculations would make using this "interrelatedness" function unfeasible. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
545
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:51:19 -
[1439] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do. When I opposed against SP trading backers said: "you don't have to buy SP. It's optional". Same will be with this. Little you can do it here. I'm opposing dailies not because I will feel forced to do them. I'm opposing them because I've done them before in other games and it straight way to burn out for other players. All we need is achievements in EvE. Nail to the coffin.
CCP is paranoid, everybody wants to convince me that SP don't matter, only player experience. Yet they introducing SP trading and SP grinding via PvE...Absurd beyond imagination.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2701
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Posted - 2016.04.13 15:55:12 -
[1440] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Tippia wrote:It's better than a daily because it's not a daily; it's better than a forced, limited activity, because it's a background maintenance task; it's something you can do at your leisure while you're logged in, not something you specifically have to log in to do. When I opposed against SP trading backers said: "you don't have to buy SP. It's optional". Same will be with this. Little you can do it here. I'm opposing dailies not because I will feel forced to do them. I'm opposing them because I've done them before in other games and it straight way to burn out for other players. All we need is achievements in EvE. Nail to the coffin. CCP is paranoid, everybody wants to convince me that SP don't matter, only player experience. Yet they introducing SP trading and SP grinding via PvE...Absurd beyond imagination.
My argument with this was sp is available to everyone, you dont have to change your style of gameplay to benefit from injectors, dailies require you to change your activity in order to get the reward, people who pvp, market trade, industry, haulers all get pretty much shafted because they dont shoot npc's.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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