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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4428
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Posted - 2016.05.21 08:30:44 -
[2341] - Quote
Matt Faithbringer wrote:2) "I fully miss out if I do not find time" that's true. now thing about how much ISK you ARE MISSING ON BY NOT RATTING 23/7 EVERY DAY! Quite a bit right? Should this be stacking too somehow? It's quite different.
You can rat any time you want. Ratting for 4 hours once a week is the same as ratting 4 times a week for 1 hour. Dailies force you to play, you know, daily. Which is annoying for anybody that can't or doesn't want to.
Also you have countless alternatives to ratting for making ISK, from trading to exploring to scamming. You can choose the ISK-making activity that you like best and/or that gives you the best buck for your time. For most (if not all) of us, it's quite satisfying to learn about or think of more efficient ways to make ISK.
On the other hand, there's almost nothing that can beat 10,000 SP for 5 minutes effort.
So sure, you can just ignore it (I definitely will), but it definitely comes with the price of 'missing out' on something valuable.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2588
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Posted - 2016.05.21 08:51:15 -
[2342] - Quote
Shandra Manaya wrote:It was pretty clear Only one char per account will be rewarded and this char is the one you use to kill your 1 npc of the day.
of the 22hrs you mean unless they have changed something.
and the only one toon per acc thing was just tossed in there as some cheap attempt to look like they were responding to feedback
Citadel worm hole tax
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Hamasaki Cross
Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD Tactical Supremacy
3
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Posted - 2016.05.21 11:20:23 -
[2343] - Quote
CCP has become used car salesmen. It's the same tactics... If we can get them in the door..... lol pathetic. Welcome to McDonalds Online. Fast food daily quests for all.
QUESTS. Because don't think it is anything else. |
Hamasaki Cross
Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD Tactical Supremacy
3
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Posted - 2016.05.21 11:22:06 -
[2344] - Quote
Oh you deployed to Iraq to fight terrorists and keep these scumbags in Iceland safe from extremists? Well you can keep your skill queue going but no matter what, you're dicked compared to all your buddies who could do their daily bs quests. WOOOO |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
168
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Posted - 2016.05.21 16:47:24 -
[2345] - Quote
Goodness, what a bunch of crybabies...
CCP, just implement this and get it done with. |
Circumstantial Evidence
311
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Posted - 2016.05.22 01:33:46 -
[2346] - Quote
They know and occasionally celebrate that EVE players are 'smarter than average,' yet attempt to manipulate player behavior in the easiest most obvious manner possible, for some fractional percentage gain. Shoot 1 NPC each day, get a piece of candy. "There's a good boy / dog." (pats head) Ugh. "consciousness manipulation techniques" - yep.
I think it's time for me to start giving Angel Cartel a break, Our relations have soured over the years... maybe we just got off on the wrong foot. |
Mr Duffo
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit The Bloc
172
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Posted - 2016.05.22 15:53:37 -
[2347] - Quote
If some people doesnt like this then just don't shoot rat and everything stays normal?
Skegg¦˝ld, Skálm¦˝ld, Skildir ro Klofnir!
Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
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Matrosov Glengoski Razyashchiy
Big Red Button
3
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Posted - 2016.05.22 17:29:43 -
[2348] - Quote
Why exactly are people against this? Its just a SP boost to those that put in the extra mile (yes logging in everyday and kill a rat is taxing on many of us!) and if you don't like it and ignore, NOTHING happens to you. I feel that people are too sensitive about this, how is this turning to another space wow? Its still a sandbox where players control most of the activities in the game. You still consent to PVP when you undock, its still the same eve but easy to understand (for new bros) with more needed tweaks (like getting rid of the raw data of turret tracking in info tab, I mean really??) but its still the same eve but with new mechanics. Do people really want this game to be difficult to play? Or do we want to not get any new players to the game?
Bitter vets need to stop being so bitter. |
Prime Entity
EVEntity
0
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Posted - 2016.05.22 20:22:26 -
[2349] - Quote
The goal of this design is to promote ingame activity, yes? And with this design we've established that SP are fair game as rewards for ingame activities. That being the case, in my opinion, the ideal system is one resembling activities boosting the skills being used - but that is obviously complex to implement.
A middle-ground compromise which: a) gets rid of both the psychological pressure of having to log in daily to perform one *arbitrary*, repetitive task; b) is not punishing to players who prefer to play marathons when they've got time and then not log in for a whole week when they're busy elsewhere; c) still promotes activity and gives a sense of reward and focus;
Could be:
Giving passive boosts to training speeds for (relatively) short amounts of time, following particular activities, either by giving small boosts to the attributes (think +1, with the possibility of increasing this for new characters) or introducing additional passive modifiers similar to how boosters work.
Ie. along the lines of: Did you just set up a sell order? You get +1 Charisma and +1 Memory for ~an hour. Did you set up an industry job? +1 Intelligence/Memory. Did you kill an npc or a player ship? +1 Perception/Willpower. Did you probe down a site or ship? +1 Intelligence/Memory. So on.
By keeping the bonuses small, non-stacking but not limited to "once a day", the effective max daily bonus can be kept below 10k SP. And will be effectively 0 is the character is training a skill which did not get boosted by performing a related activity.
This: - Does not introduce *arbitrary* (I emphasize this considering EVE is being promoted as a sandbox) tasks to perform which, many of us will agree, start feeling even more of a chore than many of the existing ingame activities already are; - Does not further clutter the UI with *yet another system* but instead promotes existing activities and let's the player decide how to approach them if they want to maximize their training efficiency; - Is friendly to the new players who, I assume without scientific data, in their first days mostly just explore what the game has to offer, without bothering about remaps, efficient skill plans and so on - and are instead just focusing on training skills which appear to be most beneficial to what they're currently exploring ingame. This inherently speeds things up for them while they're in their "wow this is huge" state without *forcing them* to perform that daily task or they'll miss out on catching up SP-wise:
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2609
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Posted - 2016.05.23 01:18:12 -
[2350] - Quote
Prime Entity wrote: a) gets rid of both the psychological pressure of having to log in daily to perform one *arbitrary*, repetitive task;
and ccp is no longer interested in your idea as that is their goal
as to the rest of your idea it is even worse than dailies as it introduces pure unaltered grind to skill training
Citadel worm hole tax
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Sepheir Sepheron
The Congregation No Handlebars.
54
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Posted - 2016.05.23 01:41:06 -
[2351] - Quote
Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2609
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Posted - 2016.05.23 03:14:10 -
[2352] - Quote
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it!
but there are better ways to do that and CCP realities it. Again they have said themselves it has nothing to do with new players. So please stop trying to use that as a reason to go forward with this.
the only reason this is being added is so that the PCU is inflated it's cheap and poor for overall game health but looks great to investors
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lavayar
Russian SOBR Dream Fleet
287
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Posted - 2016.05.23 11:25:38 -
[2353] - Quote
Sepheir Sepheron wrote:Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! It`s not about new players. CCP confirmed. |
Prime Entity
EVEntity
0
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Posted - 2016.05.23 11:40:06 -
[2354] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:and ccp is no longer interested in your idea as that is their goal
And you have clearly been enlightened as to what CCP's goal is based on your own assumptions.
Their goal is hardly destructive towards the game, contrary to your statement. It's the means that are being questioned in this, and many similar, threads.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:as to the rest of your idea it is even worse than dailies as it introduces pure unaltered grind to skill training
Hardly.
The rewards scale down to being minuscule, but are still present.
Someone who *wants to* grind in EVE to gain an advantage over others can already do so. You can spend your whole day grinding whatever source of income you want, and if you need SP - buy the SP with the ISK you made. Even before injectors were a thing, a surplus of time would simply get converted into bling on ships to gain advantages that way.
This suggestion actually curbs SP farming, compared to what CCP is implementing. With the arbitrary tasks and daily rewards, a SP farming toon could log in for 5 minutes and get a whole day's worth of rewards. Under the suggestion I made this wouldn't be possible since yes, you would actually have to "grind" the SP by *playing* for a while. Downwards pressure on SP prices would admittedly be smaller (still there, though), but actively playing characters would effectively be able to rake in more SP than passive farmers.
And if at that point you actually feel pressured to grind your SP bonuses, then you're just an irrational being. Under CCP's implementation, it is *rational* for people to spend those few minutes daily to get the skill points, considering the reward is pretty big compared to the time investment. Thus the psychological pressure kicks in - if you don't do it, you're behind others who do it. This argument raised by many as a concern, and backed by human psychology science, is valid. But when you extend that bonus in time, while simultaneously making it much smaller, you end up with a mentality of "literally just a few bonus points per hour". The incentive to log in "just for that" is smaller, but there's still an additional incentive to get in game and do what you like actively.
Since SP now have inherent ISK value, it's easiest to look at those things when you stay within that mindset and consider it as yet another source of ISK income. "5 minutes for 10k SP" which effectively translates to n milion ISK earned, is pretty tempting to many. "10 hours for 10k SP" would certainly provoke more of a "oh hell no" response since we got better ISK/hour alternatives ingame already. So how about you go do those instead? And get that small bonus meanwhile?
On a sidenote I find it rather intuitive that my character is learning a skill which they are effectively practising faster than if they were training gunnery while pew pewing market orders in Jita.
From what I can see from your posts you seem to be "just" anti everything in here as a whole. So was I - except some of us have moved past that point and accepted that CCP wants to pad the PCU, which is understandable. More players online is healthy for the game and for the business, regardless how cynical you make it out to be. At the same time I dare to assume they'd rather have those numbers reflect meaningful ingame activity instead of just a ton of people logging on for 5 minutes to kill a rat.
My biggest actual concerns with the current implementation, further down the road:
If CCP plans to stick to this initial design of theirs, I am genuinely curious how they are planning to extend the list of covered activities to include, for instance, trading or industry, without making it either exploitable or punishing to some. In case of trading, when triggering the bonus on buy/sell orders, I can already see the daily crapton of "1 trit for 0.01 ISK" orders being set up. You can of course define a minimal order value in order to get the reward, but to avoid creating a wall for newer players, this barrier needs to be small enough for them to manage it (since in comparison you can kill "a rat" in highsec in a noob ship) and as such it then becomes laughably small to anyone who's been playing for a while. And especially so to established traders and their networks of trading alts.
In case of industry - how do you not punish people who tend to set up 10 industry jobs running for weeks each? Do you force them to keep a spare slot for a daily trash industry job just to rake in those 10k SP? You certainly can't adjust the bonus based on job duration (ie. longer = more SP) since that would be both insanely easy to exploit and also tricky to implement. Or do those people become effectively forced to kill that single daily rat to get the benefit?
Both issues would be nonexistent in my suggestion. With industry, you can scale the passive attribute bonus with job duration/value (not 1:1, obviously) and it wouldn't be exploitable since it itself scales with time. With trading, if you actually spend hours daily trading - you get hours daily bonus. Scale the bonus duration with the volume/value of the trade while keeping it no longer than a day to retain the design of promoting daily activity and you're set. |
Blue Dragon
Blue Dragon LLC
0
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Posted - 2016.05.23 17:15:40 -
[2355] - Quote
Seriously people.. pull your head out of your own game and look at the big picture here.
It both amuses and annoys me when I see players, even long established veterans, doing everything they can to protect /their/ play style and Is quiet willing to do so at the expense of everyone else's enjoyment.
News flash for those capsuleers, their play style is also an impact on yours. Drive them away, and those who love to high sec gank are going to have less hulks to attack. Think about that.
And the comments about high sec miners being no better than belt rats? Really? Belt rats don't feed into the economy that ends up helping to build the ship you are on.
Now, my two cents on the idea as posted..
I believe that those skill boosters would probably be better treated as a LP award, not as a generic daily. If you were going to use a daily for something, I would suggest using it for non-tangibles like LPs from the corp that runs that particular system as well as the bounty that comes from them as it is.
Does this weigh the idea more heavily in favor of the high and low sec players? Probably. But it also makes more sense lore wise too, and it encourages players to set up shop in some area and stay there for quite a while, which also helps towards stability and helps CCP in future planning.
And for those players that run in nullsec? Why not have citadels with a LP shop module so PC corporations can start emulating their NPC counterparts? An another module might let PC corps also run their own concord-like fleets... (although in THAT case, lost ships = a loss for the corp as they have to replace the missing ships... which becomes an another viable tactic in eve warfare)
Mild Edit: Those LP gains can be boosted in lower sec systems, which can be an encouragement all it's own for people to migrate out from the high sec regions. |
Rociel
Carpe Diem Respice Finem Seekers of the Unseen
0
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Posted - 2016.05.23 17:38:18 -
[2356] - Quote
Thanks CCP I'm ok with this |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
896
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Posted - 2016.05.23 18:20:58 -
[2357] - Quote
Just wait for next year, when they roll out welfare incursions, and they will drop purple lootz for all.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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NotTheSmartestCookie
New Order Logistics CODE.
132
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Posted - 2016.05.24 11:38:49 -
[2358] - Quote
Nice!
Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.
Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.
Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
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Borat Guereen
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
61
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Posted - 2016.05.24 11:51:43 -
[2359] - Quote
killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime?
Join our Minarchist Revolution!
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Molly Shears
Call of the Wild The Minions.
21
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Posted - 2016.05.24 11:55:28 -
[2360] - Quote
worst day in EvE .....
I'm Against Daily Opportunities
I'm Against Daily Opportunities
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Borat Guereen
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
61
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Posted - 2016.05.24 12:04:30 -
[2361] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime? works now, notification and SP allocation are immediate after the kill.
Join our Minarchist Revolution!
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TeamGreen
PET Apes The Bastion
3
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Posted - 2016.05.24 12:08:18 -
[2362] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:killed rats, did not see any SP.. do we have to wait for the next downtime? works now, notification and SP allocation are immediate after the kill. hmm didnt work for me :( |
Kaligoth Larainloa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:10:25 -
[2363] - Quote
So people are upset because this feels too easy by the comments the thing is balance wise everyone can do it and earn from it I think this system is implemented to players who are new think about it first couple days of eve you are really limited because everything requires a investment of skills compared to say a vet who is way into the millions does not really need to worry so much about skill points because they have a good number of skill points to effectively go on unhindered to the burden of skill points.
Daily's are not all that bad at least it brakes you away for instance if your doing mining you can take a brake from it and do the daily till its all done then go back to mining same with hauling. |
Ledo Hashur
New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions
3
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:27:10 -
[2364] - Quote
Can someone explain to me how Recurring Opportunities are supposed to appear in the Eve client on Tranquility??
I've logged in/out 4 times, flushed cache, etc. and still don't see anything like the pics leaked a few weeks ago from Singularity testing.
As usual, CCP has launched a new feature with ZERO documentation and/or explanation.
Or is this going to be a random "hey I got skill points for no particular reason" feature?? |
Tiberius Mathusia
Kontained Chaos Demonic Wheat Pineapple
16
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:40:20 -
[2365] - Quote
Apparently it's active. I just got the 10k SP reward after killing a rat in an anomaly.
First time. |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
74
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:41:36 -
[2366] - Quote
Ledo Hashur wrote:Can someone explain to me how Recurring Opportunities are supposed to appear in the Eve client on Tranquility??
...............
Well, I did one straight after patching to see how it would work - and it worked fine.
To see the opportunity, make sure the setting for 'Do not show in info panel' is unchecked in the settings menu of the Opportunities Map (menu bar on left).
So far so good - but that was on one account - now it's not showing on any accounts, including the one earlier - not even showing as complete.
So something has gone wrong......
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Aren Dar
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2016.05.24 13:51:13 -
[2367] - Quote
I switched between characters on the same account, and the opportunity disappeared, without ever being exercised. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1461
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Posted - 2016.05.24 14:02:46 -
[2368] - Quote
So will it be enabled again today or will all the people who didn't get a chance to log on yet get free 100k sp to match the ones "making creative use of game mechanics"?
Just FYI, this has been disabled due to it being exploited |
Ledo Hashur
New Eden Development Corp Warped Intentions
3
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Posted - 2016.05.24 14:13:45 -
[2369] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Just FYI, this has been disabled due to it being exploited
FYI (link) |
Sepheir Sepheron
The Congregation No Handlebars.
55
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Posted - 2016.05.24 15:32:49 -
[2370] - Quote
Lavayar wrote:Sepheir Sepheron wrote:Idk why people are hating on this idea, I've been playing since late 07 and I think I'd be much happier starting EVE with something like this available. If it encourages new players to stay then great, do it! It`s not about new players. CCP confirmed.
I don't really care about their intent, this will make new players happier than they would have been without it guaranteed. |
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