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Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
738
   |
Posted - 2016.04.11 14:46:27 -
[1] - Quote
Villore VII - Senate Bureau
-á
*"The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.GÇ¥*
- President of the Federation, Arlette Villers. CE 23154.6.2
My fellow Captains loyal to the Federation,
In the two centuries that have followed President VillersGÇÖ inspiring words, his vision has become more relevant with every passing decade. Now, as capsuleers across New Eden gain more and greater power, those of us loyal to the values and spirit of the Federation carry that vision with us to the edges of known space and beyond.
As Federal capsuleers, we have unique opportunities in the galaxy, and unique perspectives. Many of us participate in venues like the Intergalactic Summit in order to express ourselves, and to learn from and debate with our peers on matters of galactic importance. But what of the Federation itself, and our role within it?
Certainly, as citizens of the Federal Union we may choose to involve ourselves in planetside affairs from time to time. Our actions in space may occasionally impact the course of larger events. But where do we Capsuleers gather to make our collective voices heard in the democratic chorus of the Federation?
Every conceivable variety of interest group represents itself to the Federal government in some form or fashion. Lobbyists, Unions, Think Tanks, Communes, Religious Sects, Trade Guilds, Social Clubs and Sports TeamsGǪ all of them and more come here to the Senate in order to have their say, and yet no such organization exists for the representation of Capsuleers!
That, my esteemed colleagues, is what I hope we can change with your help. Some time ago I decided to find out if there was interest within the Federal Loyalist Capsuleer community to form such an organization. The idea caught on, and some of us established the Villore Assembly.
If you are interested in participating in this Assembly, please contact me via EVEmail with a secure fluid router contact (email address) and I will sent an invitation as soon as possible.
Villore Assembly Charter Summary
Purpose: Provide a platform for interested Capsuleers to discuss and research issues relevant to the Federal Union of Gallente Prime, and advance policy proposals to the Federation Senate and Government.
Structure: The Assembly shall consist of capsuleer Delegates known to be Federation citizens or members of organizations aligned with the Gallente Federation, and capsuleer Envoys representing non Gallente aligned organizations.
Both Delegates and Envoys shall be able to raise issues to the Assembly for discussion, but only Delegates are permitted to vote on any Resolution proposed to the Assembly for ratification and presentation to the Senate.
Moderation and oversight of the Assembly shall be the responsibility of the Secretary General, and whatever Secretariat Staff are appointed to assist in that responsibility.
My sincere thanks to those who have patiently supported this endeavor,
Rinai Vero
Luminaire General, FDU
Moira. Director and GMVA Diplomat
Secretary General, Villore Assembly
-á
|
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
194
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 15:40:16 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not saying you should check under your assembly seats for explosive devices, but you really should check under your assembly seats for explosive devices.
Love;
A concerned Guristas Pirate Science Person G¥ñ |
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
738
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 15:52:08 -
[3] - Quote
Hah, I'll make sure to update my clone before every session! |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1016
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 16:39:07 -
[4] - Quote
Who let Kim in? |
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
739
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 16:49:53 -
[5] - Quote
Actually, I would be more than willing to allow Commander Kim to present evidence to a committee on the subject of the treatment of Caldari prisoners. I doubt she would be willing to participate in a process so tainted by the process of democracy, but if she was I'd facilitate her participation. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2555
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 17:13:55 -
[6] - Quote
Why would I do this? Any capsuleer who can operate probe scanner and fly a... SHIP. Can present these evidence, all you need is to fly to Black Rise...
Oh, sorry, I forgot, you are KOS in Black Rise and Caldari Navy shoots pity gallentean occupants down!
Well, I can then present them myself.
Also I hope you do understand that not only these make Federation a criminal organization.
How about operation Highlander? I heard it was planned by FedNavy HQ and even President let it happen. That makes whole Federation guilty.
Oh, maybe I should also present evidences that gallentes are still on Caldari Prime? I think I can do this as well.
I can even bring a list of systems in Black Rise that gallentean occupants are present in.
Unfortunately I don't have evidences about genocide of Caldari settlers myself, but I guess you will be able to find them easily if you dig into reports from the warzone since YC110 made by NOH, intelligence branch of CPD and other Caldari news agencies.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Omega Jovakko
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
387
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 18:11:54 -
[7] - Quote
Would it be possible to sit in on the meeting as a witness? I would like to see how the matter of the POWS will be resolved
"that's just blatant Anti-Caldari Propaganda, this Janitor must be arrested at once!"
püépüépüépüépüépüépüépéôn+Pn+ü
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 18:17:22 -
[8] - Quote
Resolved? In some sort of silly gallentean meeting? Are you serious?
It will be resolved only when all gallentean occupants will die. Do you like being a witness to their deaths?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Xadiran
Moira.
Villore Accords
55
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 18:56:09 -
[9] - Quote
Putting aside Kim's ramblings, this assembly essentially amounts to a capsuleer lobby which can push for meaningful changes in empire politics, specifically along Caldari-Gallente lines.
Regardless of your state of mind about the militia fighting, or even that this is a Moira initiative (and I understand Soter isn't exactly the belle of the ball in these parts) I highly encourage those who want real meaningful discourse to join. |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1088
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 19:32:32 -
[10] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:Putting aside Kim's ramblings, this assembly essentially amounts to a capsuleer lobby which can push for meaningful changes in empire politics, specifically along Caldari-Gallente lines.
Regardless of your state of mind about the militia fighting, or even that this is a Moira initiative (and I understand Soter isn't exactly the belle of the ball in these parts) I highly encourage those who want real meaningful discourse to join.
I'm going to be pretty blunt here while respectful.
The Pakhshi Peace Conference attempted to do just this, lobby talking points to the Big Four that were in depth, well reasoned and had workable plans developed by Capsuleers on all sides of the political divide.
The Big Four ignored us. It's my intention not to make the same mistake of getting my hopes up they'd bother listening to us by focusing the next Pakhshi meeting on the relationship between us and them far more specifically. I will also be putting it on their table in person, even if I have to hammer the doors of the Assembly down by hand.
I wish this project luck, but I'm not holding my breath initiatives like this will achieve anything until we fix the broken connection.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8270
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 19:47:16 -
[11] - Quote
I second Mr. Onzo's concerns on the ability of this body to affect change. What's more, I am deeply concerned that an assembly lead by active participants in the Gallente-Caldari warzone are unlikely to be the most capable peace-makers, nor able to put forward policies that will gain significant traction outside the Federation itself. Further yet, by rendering largely powerless any non-Federation participant, I worry that participation in this endeavor is tantamount to subordination to Federation interests.
Simply, there are a number of high-minded ideals here, but I am unconvinced.
What will your assembly's task be with regard to the Pakhshi Peace Conference results? What do you consider to be the assembly's foremost matters for attention? Who are currently delegates, and what are their affiliations? If a delegate pushed for an Intaki popular referendum on Federation membership, what would be your assembly's position? Have you solicited the Intaki Prosperity Initiative for involvement?
Provided an adequately broad-minded response to these questions and concerns, I may have an envoy in mind, one who is known for her diplomatic stance.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
739
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 20:46:49 -
[12] - Quote
These are all excellent questions and concerns, and I appreciate both Mr. Onzo and Ms. Priano for raising them.
First, let me clarify that the Villore Assembly is intended to focus on working within the democratic process to influence Federation policy. I do not envision the Assembly lobbying governments outside the Federation.
Second, at this time there is no Assembly position on the numerous matters that were brought before the Pakshi Peace Conference. In order for us to have a "task" we would first need to consider those results, come to a consensus, and then decided on a course of action. Either of you or both are welcome to make a presentation on the subject to get that process started.
In general, I am supportive of the process that the PPC represents. I was not able to attend, but perhaps in the future I will be able to do so. I do not see the two initiatives at cross purposes, or as mutually exclusive. My view was that the PPC did a good job bringing a broad selection of Capsuleer interests together to address concerns faced by the entire cluster collectively. If it was ignored by the "Big Four," because of a broken system... well, all the more reason to step up the pressure on our respective governments.
As for the rest, you're again asking about things that have yet to be decided. I've literally only just opened the inaugural session, we haven't resolved ourselves to any positions yet.
At this point I don't presume to speak for the Assembly on the subject of "foremost matters for attention." That will be up to the Delegates. Perhaps you're asking about my personal agenda? If that's the case, while I do have issues I intend to address, I believe it would harm the integrity of the Assembly for it to become a vehicle for my personal politics. Xadiran mentioned Gallente-Caldari relations, but that actually is not something we set out to focus on above any other particular issue.
This announcement is a general solicitation for involvement. I'd be pleased to have the IPI involved, we have not solicited them specifically, but I might just fire off an evemail now that you mention it.
I'd be pleased to welcome any Envoy you are willing to send.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 21:06:14 -
[13] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:
I'm going to be pretty blunt here while respectful.
The Pakhshi Peace Conference attempted to do just this, lobby talking points to the Big Four that were in depth, well reasoned and had workable plans developed by Capsuleers on all sides of the political divide.
The Big Four ignored us. It's my intention not to make the same mistake of getting my hopes up they'd bother listening to us by focusing the next Pakhshi meeting on the relationship between us and them far more specifically. I will also be putting it on their table in person, even if I have to hammer the doors of the Assembly down by hand.
I wish this project luck, but I'm not holding my breath initiatives like this will achieve anything until we fix the broken connection.
Mr. Onzo, so called Pakshi Peace Conference was nothing but a farce, pity I have realized it too late. And I am not surprised that the Big Four decided to ignore its results.
As for gallentean initiative, I am pretty sure that it will be even worse.
The only real way to ensure peace with gallenteans is to defeat them physically and render them unable to occupy worlds of others (like our Caldari Prime and Black Rise) and oppress other nations who live their own ways that gallenteans can't accept.
Gallenteans are fanatics. No peace treaties, no agreements will hold them from violating them and attacking anyways just because you will do something inside your territory that they don't like. They will use it as an excuse to pillage or occupy your lands, screaming stuff like "For Chaos" or "For Democracy"...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Xadiran
Moira.
Villore Accords
55
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 21:17:02 -
[14] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:Xadiran mentioned Gallente-Caldari relations, but that actually is not something we set out to focus on above any other particular issue.
Yes I suppose I may have gotten a little ahead of myself there. Those are certainly the issues I mean to bring to attention most, however.
Truth be told, I'm far less adept at this whole politics thing than Rinai. Nevertheless, I intend to participate actively and meaningfully.
I even share some of your hesitation regards to non-Gallentean participants, Ms. Priano. At the moment, we can only hope that the delegates we receive are open minded and willing to embrace differing opinions constructively. |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1088
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 22:30:08 -
[15] - Quote
I'm willing to present the relevant findings of the PPC to this assembly, but I have my doubts this'll do much of anything. Simply making groups like the PPC, or the recent and now defunct Khanid Council, isn't enough. At this stage I think we're all going to have to make more concerted efforts to be vocal and direct.
My schedule is rather full of late so I can only hope the timings will be able to marry up.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
|
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1241
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 01:35:57 -
[16] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:First, let me clarify that the Villore Assembly is intended to focus on working within the democratic process to influence Federation policy. I do not envision the Assembly lobbying governments outside the Federation.
Exactly so, Federal unity is required for a broader peace. A worthwhile project indeed.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 09:48:01 -
[17] - Quote
I would like to bring apology for my previous reply when I was asked to present evidence "n the subject of the treatment of Caldari prisoners." I am afraid I was thinking with my "guns" instead of brains, which often happens when I see such offensive cruelty and disrespect to human life. I would like to change it and reply as I should, with cold heart and weighted answer.
As I have replied to one gallentean speaker, who have publically discredited himself by denying well-known fact, asking such sort of evidence would be equal to asking, for example, any Amarr Empire representative to "bring evidence of existence of their scriptures." I believe that would be as insulting to them as your request, Ms. Vero, was to all Caldari people.
Discussion on treatmenf of Caldari prisoners could be acceptable in the baseliner society, because they lack the tools we, capsuleers, have. It isn't hard to witness with your own eyes the prisoners, these prison facilities with their security methods and results of appaling treatment. Doubting the existence of these facts is the same as publically acknowledging of the speaker incompetence as a capsule pilot, Ms. Vero.
To make a gallentean to acknowledge what is he doing isn't really worth my time.
However, I'll be glad to participate in the discussion about the prisoners if it will be turned in the key of what shall be done to stop this treatment. If we discuss actions and consequences and of course responsibility which everyone engaged in construction, maintenance, operation and desinformation about these facilities shall bear.
The Federals must pay for what they have done (and for what they are still doing - in case of the prisoner mistreatment), and in this I am interested.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
224
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 09:55:56 -
[18] - Quote
It's an interesting proposal. Several well-founded concerns have been raised, but as long as you keep this Assembly focussed on representations to the Senate and nothing more ambitious, I can see some benefit. However, it would be entirely counter-productive to have persons not entitled to exercise their franchise within the Federation involved in any other capacity than non-speaking observer. Foreign lobbyists are already a scourge, and should not be encouraged. Being open to people such as Commander Kim is well-meant lunacy, the very path to Hell fashioned with good intentions.
You should be mindful that there are plenty of expressly non-partisan initiatives that better address cross-cluster matters - such as the nascent post-Pakshi gathering mentioned by Mr Onzo. Accept one role and do it well, rather than seek to be overly important and misguidedly 'inclusive'.
You should also consider more involvement in local politics. Whereas the Senate is tempting because of its grandeur and the lustre lobbyists receive by providing worship to the mighty, far more real change is effected at the local assembly level. Our glorious Federation delights in its diversity, and the range of solutions we see to local democratic needs provides the diversity that a vibrant economy and culture must foster.
I'll see if I can find time from my own duties in Elose-Goins to support and attend.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 10:04:33 -
[19] - Quote
Well well, Mr. Kinnison, listening to truth now you call a "well-meant lunacy"?
What do you prefer to listen to? To tales about pink domestic cattle with only one horn left, that puke rainbows? That probably won't be lunacy to you and you will talk about it with all your seriousness, if gallenteans are even capable to that feeling.
Maybe I should send you a holo-recording of Quaffe advertisement and Federal Navy recruiting propaganda with calls to fight "For Chaos"? Is that to your liking, gallentean?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
742
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 14:04:37 -
[20] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
I'll see if I can find time from my own duties in Elose-Goins to support and attend.
A Capsuleer already elected to a local Assembly would be most welcome to attend, so I hope that you will be able to do so. The more voices from the chorus of Federation society, the better! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 14:17:35 -
[21] - Quote
I would like to add something regarding Mr. Kinnison.
You, gallentes, can continue ignoring the truth. You can continue prohibiting speaking the truth. You can continue silencing voices of reason.
But keep in mind this. Whatever you do, whatever you say, the fact will remain the fact. Words come around and go around, but the truth persists.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
418
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 15:10:52 -
[22] - Quote
Yours has never been a voice of reason Diana.
I would have expected even you to have accepted that by now.
-Tertianus Rethelior
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
742
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 15:36:30 -
[23] - Quote
I, for one, have no fear of the truth. I grew up on Caldari Prime among friends and family of both Gallente and Caldari heritage, and one of the first lessons of my youth was that injustice doesn't have a nationality.
Injustice thrives in the darkness, and we know that there are many dark places in the Federation. I hope that the Villore Assembly can shine a light where those who hide in the shadows fear to be seen.
Diana knows what she has witnessed, and we should have no fear to confront the truth even from those who are our enemies. However, truth is not limited to the experience of one person. If Commander Kim decides to present evidence to the Assembly, it will be in the context of a full investigation. |
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
1695
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 17:42:34 -
[24] - Quote
We gallenteans are neither ignoring the truth nor are we attempting to hide it, as is evident by the fact that you have been asked multiple times by Gallente citizens to put forth evidence. The burden of proof lays with you, Kimmy. We are not inclined to seek evidence of wrong doing or the condemnation of our Empire on account of one loud, xenophobic capsuleer.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 18:46:43 -
[25] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:Yours has never been a voice of reason Diana.
Those who are deaf and dumb like you, "iyammarrok", wouldn't recognize reason even if it will be presented to you on a platter right under your nose.
Don't intervene in conversations of your superiors in the future. You distracted me by 45 seconds with your trolling. I don't like that.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
1696
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 18:57:27 -
[26] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:iyammarrok wrote:Yours has never been a voice of reason Diana.
Those who are deaf and dumb like you, "iyammarrok", wouldn't recognize reason even if it will be presented to you on a platter right under your nose. Don't intervene in conversations of your superiors in the future. You distracted me by 45 seconds with your trolling. I don't like that.
The fact that it took you 45 seconds to read that is telling...
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 18:58:33 -
[27] - Quote
Ms. Vero, as just I have said earlier, I am not interested in gallentean simply acknowledging what they are already doing. Would you be ready to act and make decisions on this situation, or is it just for empty talks that gallentean so love?
But as Ms. Osyn have said, if I claim something, I should present evidences for this, and thus it shall be done.
Even if I will have to participate in this gallentean circus and prove you that the water is wet and show you your own action, I shall do this in order to show you that a word of Caldari Officer is never empty.
Maybe that will teach you gallenteans something. And even if it won't. Oh well. I just wonder if your assembly would enjoy the graphic material just as gallentean prison guards enjoy torturing people.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 18:59:37 -
[28] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:iyammarrok wrote:Yours has never been a voice of reason Diana.
Those who are deaf and dumb like you, "iyammarrok", wouldn't recognize reason even if it will be presented to you on a platter right under your nose. Don't intervene in conversations of your superiors in the future. You distracted me by 45 seconds with your trolling. I don't like that. The fact that it took you 45 seconds to read that is telling...
To read and write the answer, Osyn. Your trolling took me 10 seconds. Stop this.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
1697
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 19:07:39 -
[29] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:Diana Kim wrote:iyammarrok wrote:Yours has never been a voice of reason Diana.
Those who are deaf and dumb like you, "iyammarrok", wouldn't recognize reason even if it will be presented to you on a platter right under your nose. Don't intervene in conversations of your superiors in the future. You distracted me by 45 seconds with your trolling. I don't like that. The fact that it took you 45 seconds to read that is telling... To read and write the answer, Osyn. Your trolling took me 10 seconds. Stop this.
No. You make it too easy.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 21:02:01 -
[30] - Quote
I would like also to point out that a savage who called himself with a name that sounds like "Im mah rock" (rather descriptive!), was exact one of these ignorants whom I was pointing on earlier.
He was one of these cruel and heartless peoples, denying the widely known and easily verifiable fact for the sake of his trolling here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5787843#post5787843
iyammarrok wrote:
blowing up colonies? even penal ones?
*looks at a list of commonly used FedNav weaponry*
nope.
Any capable capsuleer who have seen Federal penal colonies in Black Rise can confirm that they blow them up shortly as you hack into one of the cells to rescue a prisoner.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Xun Yu
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 23:35:17 -
[31] - Quote
Rinai Vero
Luminaire General, FDU
Moira. Director and GMVA Diplomat
Secretary General, Villore Assembly
The success of the Federation and its aims depends on more than simply the Gallente, the voices of all her constituent peoples must be heard or else the Federation is doomed to discordant chaos. Allow me to express my interest in participating in this Assembly so as to ensure a voice for my people, the Jin-Mei, and to provide our strength and wisdom to the problems facing the Federation.
I have contacted you via private mail as requested, and should you require any further information or details from myself I will happily furnish them.
Taishou Xun Yu |
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
743
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 00:40:46 -
[32] - Quote
Taishou Xun,
Our Assembly would be most honored by your presence among our number. I could not agree more that the strength of our Union can only endure as long as all of our people stand together in brotherhood. A representative of our noble Jin Mei comrades will be welcome indeed. |
Aedre Lafisques
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
69
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 01:13:57 -
[33] - Quote
I have several things to say in regards to this thread.
Firstly, the same things as always are demanded of Mlle. Kim, that she point to specific evidence, which, I think she has, long ago now. Let's say she has, and that the things that she has said are not just elements of the past but ongoing. So far, I have seen very, very few Gallente that have outright denied that such things have happened. In fact, I think many, including myself, are willing to aknowlege that these things happen all the time.
To say that they happen 'everywhere', which is the case, is not a lessening. It should be understood to be apprehensible in its scope. Just because these things happen everywhere does not mean it is acceptible. In so far, I don't fault Mlle. Kim for arguing for her personal, exclusive side. But the real problem to be tackled is that this is happening everywhere. It must be addressed. Even in small part would be an improvement.
When I agreed to participate in the PPC, I had no illusions whatsoever of its scope or its reach. I was not disappointed when it was not heard, as I never expected it to, powers corrupt as they seem to be (such concerns being ignored and whatnot). When Arkon asked me for my opinion, it was much the same as many peoples' thereafter - that it would change nothing. He glimmered, nothing more.
Vision guides the future, not 'change' in and of itself. Vision requires action as a component. It is not about achieving vision immediately in one step but continual action in years, decades or even centuries. Things like the PPC, and hopefully, this Assembly, are cornerstones of what Arkon believed were the strengths of the Gallente people. We all have something to give to strengthening the future.
Those who act contrary to progress will slowly be forgotten, but those who defy that will go on. It's not my people who said, That which is done for oneself dies with you, that which you do for others is immortal.
Do you really think the philosophy of such a notion changes for us, immortals? What sort of hell are we willing to create around us? I doubt this is what anyone wants no matter the immortality, which is an illusion anyway, and can surely be taken from us at any time. Something Great is far more worthwhile.
We have all become Capsuleers for some reason. These reasons against the cost make us very subjective. But if we can listen to those stories we get a sense for the tapestry of realities here in New Eden.
I would like to see the PPC continue as a master document. I would also like to see the Assembly succeed as a community for voices in a similar spirit. We can do better - we have every means at our disposal. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1243
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 01:47:53 -
[34] - Quote
I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say.
She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Korsavius
Relentless Terrorism
Separatists
282
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 05:08:35 -
[35] - Quote
I would like to step forward as an envoy on behalf of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, if your assembly would be so willing as to allow me to do so. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3170
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 06:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aedre Lafisques wrote:
When I agreed to participate in the PPC, I had no illusions whatsoever of its scope or its reach. I was not disappointed when it was not heard, as I never expected it to, powers corrupt as they seem to be (such concerns being ignored and whatnot). When Arkon asked me for my opinion, it was much the same as many peoples' thereafter - that it would change nothing. He glimmered, nothing more.
An aside question I feel is somewhat relevant to this initiative also.
Why do we expect the Governments that represent tens of trillions of citizens to listen to submissions by a few score capsuleers, it's not like either initiative represented any sizeable proportion of the capsuleer community either, and it's also not like the PPC proposed anything that hasn't been said by various politicians on all sides.
This really feels like grandstanding to me to submit proposals then claim they are corrupt for not listening to such a small minority. Especially when you say you expected no response going into it.
Though effort is still well worth making, but lets not go overboard calling them corrupt for not listening. |
Zenariae
212
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 07:55:19 -
[37] - Quote
If I could offer a partial answer to that, one that might not really answer but make you consider the whole and the nature of each of its parts. As Capsuleers, we do this because it is the right thing to do, to examine the things in life and decide what qualities are needed to serve their existence, such as tolerance, courage, persistence, even faith, to name a few. The Assembly I would hope will be a place for reflection as much as it might try to aim for practical suggestions. Sometimes there is no solution in the present beyond simply acknowledging that whether or not something deserves the attentions of the trillions or the few, all things are a part of the one perception of the universe, the Maker, and all things refer back to that perception. |
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
418
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 10:52:55 -
[38] - Quote
Thankyou for proving my point Diana.
Your seeming inability to actually read my name, clearly written at the bottom of the post, is telling of your current 'level'.
I can assure you, it is not one that could in any way be described as 'my superior'.
Good day.
-Tertianus Rethelior.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
iyammarrok
Mining Company
The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
418
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 10:59:28 -
[39] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I would like also to point out that a savage who called himself with a name that sounds like "Im mah rock" (rather descriptive!), was exact one of these ignorants whom I was pointing on earlier. He was one of these cruel and heartless peoples, denying the widely known and easily verifiable fact for the sake of his trolling here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5787843#post5787843
iyammarrok wrote:
blowing up colonies? even penal ones?
*looks at a list of commonly used FedNav weaponry*
nope.
Any capable capsuleer who have seen Federal penal colonies in Black Rise can confirm that they blow them up shortly as you hack into one of the cells to rescue a prisoner.
i see you've taken a quote from an earlier thread, in which you claimed to have video of people walking unprotected on a planetary surface.
in a system with only two planets upon which any such facility could be placed. Neither of which would allow for unshielded survival.
One was barren, with no atmosphere, the other had a surface temperature of almost absolute zero.
but really, do continue digging your own hole.
Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
|
Aedre Lafisques
Eleutherian Guard
Villore Accords
74
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 12:06:46 -
[40] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say.
She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
For the record, I would like to underline that my comments about her were directly in this vein. It is the fact that she does not promote the well-being of all that makes her seem most illegitimate. It is indeed propaganda - and nothing more - to state that only we commit war-terrors.
I would encourage our community not to knock our heads against propaganda - we're all quite familiar with it now, as Capsuleers. Some of us produce this kind of material ourselves, in more pointed ways. This should be treated no differently. It might anger us, but that is the only purpose of it, so we shouldn't let it disrupt our goings-on, just as in war. It is better to move by it unaffected. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:34:01 -
[41] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:I have very little interest in what Ms. Kim has to say.
Probably because you have chosen to ignore the truth when I smeared your nose to it, preferring to spew groundless gallente propaganda.
James Syagrius wrote:
She isnGÇÖt interested in peace, accommodation, or understanding.
Said a gallentean, supporting occupation regime and failing to understand us or facts.
Don't speak about me, barking gallentean swine, you know nothing about what I am interested in.
For example, I am most definitely interested in peace and to render you agressors unable to break it ever again.
James Syagrius wrote:
She is a propagandist who is interested only in causing dissension among those she wishes to destroy.
Said a gallentean propagandist, trying to cover the fact with his groundless words.
James Syagrius wrote:
If she were to equally denounce the manyGǪ. excesses of the State, then perhaps I would have more interest.
Care to name at least two?
James Syagrius wrote:
Otherwise, as ever she is just a feckless hack whose rabble rousing isnGÇÖt worth further consideration.
Syagrius, I'd like to remind you that it was YOU, who has shown whole IGS you aren't worth further consideration, not me.
Ref.: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=474649
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 13:37:49 -
[42] - Quote
iyammarrok wrote:
but really, do continue digging your own hole.
"iyammarrok", I have pointed you where you have publically denounced easily verifiable fact ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6437045#post6437045 ) here, showing yourself as a clown to the whole IGS, and all you tried to do is to try to divert conversation to discussion of planetary atmospheres?
Stop barking from YOUR hole, because I don't think anyone could ever fall lower than you.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
747
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:24:10 -
[43] - Quote
I would prefer if there were no more personal attacks leveled within this thread by those of us participating in the Assembly. Gods know that I've had many sharp words on the IGS in the past, but in this case we should set an example of cordiality.
Commander Kim, I am willing to hear what you have to say at the Assembly in time. Now, we are in the process of recruiting new members and finding our footing. In our previous exchange you were willing to acknowledge that I was not denying facts of the Caldari POW matter. I commended you for that, and respected the integrity it required. If you hope to see this matter addressed with your input in the Assembly, it will require a small amount of respect on your part.
Everyone else, I very much appreciate the discussion so far. You are all raising important questions about what the purpose of this Assembly will be, and what challenges we will face. Please continue, and if possible, do so in a respectful manner. |
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
356
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 16:26:19 -
[44] - Quote
As someone with personal and business interests in the Gallente Federation, I'm interested in being an envoy of an Amarrian organization. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2556
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 18:13:15 -
[45] - Quote
Very well, Ms. Vero. Thank you.
I'll respect your Assembly in my turn. But on any attack including insult I'll reply as usual.
Tenfold or greater.
Also please don't expect from me any respect to the Federation or any of occupants, should they be found on Caldari Prime, Black Rise or other Caldari worlds.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Rook Moray
Cell 13 Salvage
74
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 23:33:53 -
[46] - Quote
Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
GÇ£When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.GÇ¥ -Guristas Proverb.
|
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
278
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 02:05:28 -
[47] - Quote
Namas Tayam
I have been following this discussion since Gen. Vero's opening announcement, and take the invitation for participation by non-Federal groups to be genuine.
I'm pleased that some here believe the Intaki Liberation Front's voice, and that of the wider and Intaki Prosperity Initiative, is important enough to be heard and listened to, and so I will be providing the necessary contact details for you to submit a formal invitation.
I am sure you will understand that my own participation is likely to be focussed on topics which matter most to my organisation, and the people we work to support.
However, as others have said, this assembly irisks seen as a Moira.-led initiative, and that brings a particular "diplomatic" reputation into play, especially when it comes to the topics of discussion I'll be more involved in.
It is my hope that the personal and professional reputations (or lack thereof) each of us will bring, will not undermine what appear on face value to be the good intentions behind the creation of the Villore Assembly.
Bataav
Mahesha | Intaki Liberation Front & Intaki Prosperity Initiative
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
5861
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 03:39:50 -
[48] - Quote
Rook Moray wrote:Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
What, Intaki can't have a voice at the table unless it's the ILF? Take into consideration that a significant majority of Intaki's population are pro-Federation.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1671
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 05:35:48 -
[49] - Quote
An interesting idea, though as with most other endeavors to bring issues to the attention of the Powers That Be, I have trouble seeing a proper response from them being among the potential outcomes.
That said, I'll see if someone in my corporation might be interested. Failing that, I will consider volunteering myself.
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium
Owner, The Golden Masque
|
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
278
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 14:32:32 -
[50] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Rook Moray wrote:Sounds like fun. I'm in.
But you really need to reach out to the ILF. This ain't gonna be half what it could be unless Intaki has a voice at the table.
What, Intaki can't have a voice at the table unless it's the ILF? Take into consideration that a significant majority of Intaki's population are pro-Federation.
I think it's more a reflection of the fact no other capsuleer organisation has dedicated an entire decade, investing the proverbial blood, sweat and tears into the Intaki system, for the benefit of its people.
I have no interest in derailing sensible and reasonable discussions with calls for independence, if it's not appropriate to the matter at hand. To do so would simply validate claims by some of our political opponants that we are not a group with Intaki's best interests at heart.
We're not the political extremists of Intaki Pure, pushing some misguided isolationist agenda at all costs. The Intaki Prosperity Initiative is perfectly capable of taking a wider view, and our record shows that we're more than comfortable working alongside other groups with differing political views to our own.
Bataav
Mahesha | Intaki Liberation Front & Intaki Prosperity Initiative
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
748
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:07:03 -
[51] - Quote
I am glad to see that our colleagues from the ILF are wiling to participate in the Assembly. Although we disagree on the matter of independence, I have come to believe they share a genuine desire for the betterment of the Intaki people. Also, it must not be forgotten that despite their support for radical secessionist politics, many of their members remain citizens of the Federation. Their voice should not be silenced or ignored.
I also think Mahesha Bataav's comments on the risk that the Villore Assembly may be seen as "Moira-led" bear further discussion. Obviously, I'm a Moira pilot, and other Moira pilots are involved. Our history as aggressive defenders of Federation sovereignty is well known. Ultimately, it will be up to the wider community to decide whether the Villore Assembly adequately enables the participation of others, or not. I hope it is clear for now that we are striving to be open and welcoming to all interested parties.
|
Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:49:35 -
[52] - Quote
Rinai Vero, while at this time the Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive has no plans to participate in what appears to be a matter of the Federation. We would like to send observers to this initiative. |
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
748
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 17:30:52 -
[53] - Quote
Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Rinai Vero, while at this time the Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive has no plans to participate in what appears to be a matter of the Federation. We would like to send observers to this initiative.
I've already been in contact with Korsavius, who has asked to observe on IRED's behalf. Given his longstanding ties with your organization we've already granted him Envoy status. If IRED would like to send any other observers, please forward their contact information to me via evemail. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2563
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 20:47:47 -
[54] - Quote
That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?..
Honestly, for myself, there is absolutely nothing interesting in Federal-related stuff unless it goes outside the Federation. Oh, well, except one: utter and complete destruction of the said Federation. But something tells me nobody would be interested in hearing this... suggestion... in the Assembly if I'll come with it.
Though, maybe, I shall try? I could even make a presentation! With colorful pictures for our Brutor "friend".
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
748
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 20:51:50 -
[55] - Quote
I'm going to guess that the Secretary General would rule comments of that nature out of order. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7479
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 00:59:07 -
[56] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:I second Mr. Onzo's concerns on the ability of this body to affect change. What's more, I am deeply concerned that an assembly lead by active participants in the Gallente-Caldari warzone are unlikely to be the most capable peace-makers, nor able to put forward policies that will gain significant traction outside the Federation itself. Further yet, by rendering largely powerless any non-Federation participant, I worry that participation in this endeavor is tantamount to subordination to Federation interests.
Simply, there are a number of high-minded ideals here, but I am unconvinced.
What will your assembly's task be with regard to the Pakhshi Peace Conference results? What do you consider to be the assembly's foremost matters for attention? Who are currently delegates, and what are their affiliations? If a delegate pushed for an Intaki popular referendum on Federation membership, what would be your assembly's position? Have you solicited the Intaki Prosperity Initiative for involvement?
Provided an adequately broad-minded response to these questions and concerns, I may have an envoy in mind, one who is known for her diplomatic stance.
An independent Intaki homeworld (well, as best as the Syndicate would continue to pretend not to run it).
Not a bad thing really. People get tired of being "ruled" by representatives elected by people light years away, who sit at desks light years away, and tell us what's good for us. The Syndicate at least has people who don't need a map to find their way around it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 02:36:24 -
[57] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?..
It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2564
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 07:51:43 -
[58] - Quote
Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?.. It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space.
No matter the state of political posture including open war? When all other Caldari people are fighting with them, you are trading with them.
When they torture our prisoners, you are trading with them.
When they occupy our homeworld, you are trading with them.
When they crash our titans on our planets, killing millions, you are trading with them.
Good job, enjoy your trade, I guess?..
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
226
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 10:13:33 -
[59] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Not a bad thing really. People get tired of being "ruled" by representatives elected by people light years away, who sit at desks light years away, and tell us what's good for us. The Syndicate at least has people who don't need a map to find their way around it.
If this happens, it's entirely of that people's own fault. Local politics might not be fashionable or glamorous, but it's the lifeblood of the Federation. Every District Assembly needs citizens to be engaged, to lobby and to vote.
There's far too much whining about how the 'elite' run the Senate as if the people don't matter, when the same people refuse to get off their couches and vote. Senators can be held to account by their local assemblies, but only if those deputies have a mandate that scares them. And it's not just at election time - politically active citizens keep their representatives - I was about to write 'honest' but that would be an overly extravagant claim - keep them attentive.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
|
Alex Hinkelmann
Ishukone-Raata Corporate Investment Bank
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
9
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 18:29:25 -
[60] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?.. It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space. No matter the state of political posture including open war? When all other Caldari people are fighting with them, you are trading with them. When they torture our prisoners, you are trading with them. When they occupy our homeworld, you are trading with them. When they crash our titans on our planets, killing millions, you are trading with them. Good job, enjoy your trade, I guess?..
Business is in the Caldari spirit. It is what makes the State what it is today, Ishukone-Raata and Ishukone are not alone in this thinking.
To name a few dutiful Caldari Corporations who still continue their agreements with the Gallente and manage assets within the sovereign boundaries of the Federation:
- The Caldari Business Tribunal
- CBD Corporation
- Expert Distribution
- Kaalakiota Corporation
- Lai Dai
- Modern Finances
- Nugoeihuvi Corporation
- Wiyrkomi Corporation
The lines in this proxy war are rather grey. At least since the fall of Heth. |
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
116
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 22:54:08 -
[61] - Quote
Alex Hinkelmann wrote:
Business is in the Caldari spirit. It is what makes the State what it is today, Ishukone-Raata and Ishukone are not alone in this thinking.
To name a few dutiful Caldari Corporations who still continue their agreements with the Gallente and manage assets within the sovereign boundaries of the Federation:
- The Caldari Business Tribunal
- CBD Corporation
- Expert Distribution
- Kaalakiota Corporation
- Lai Dai
- Modern Finances
- Nugoeihuvi Corporation
- Wiyrkomi Corporation
The lines in this proxy war are rather grey. At least since the fall of Heth.
Indeed. Caldari firms are active all across New Eden. And always have been. Can't see a war getting in the way of an opportunity to make a profit.
What has always puzzled me however is how someone managed to get the State and the Empire to agree to have Republic Security Services stations within their borders.
Or why we agreed to the Imperial Armaments stations in The Republic.
Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1026
|
Posted - 2016.04.16 23:08:07 -
[62] - Quote
To allow the other "the courtesy" of letting the opposite side know they are amassing an armada. Think of it like an embasy.... |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1249
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 00:48:15 -
[63] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Alex Hinkelmann wrote:Diana Kim wrote:That's already two I-RED representatives, showing interest in internal Federal affairs. I wonder what for?.. It has been public knowledge for the better part of a decade that like many Megacorporations within the State Ishukone-Raata conducts a fair amount of trade with our neighbors - no matter the state of political posture of either side. Ishukone too has a vested interest throughout their sovereign space. No matter the state of political posture including open war? When all other Caldari people are fighting with them, you are trading with them. When they torture our prisoners, you are trading with them. When they occupy our homeworld, you are trading with them. When they crash our titans on our planets, killing millions, you are trading with them. Good job, enjoy your trade, I guess?..
Commerce is indeed the life blood of the cluster.
I would imagine their... trade has done more good for more Caldari than your... rantings.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
5870
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 01:14:12 -
[64] - Quote
It should also be noted that the Federation did not seize assets, freeze accounts or arrest personnel of Caldari corporations in its jurisdiction - which, as a sovereign nation which was at the time under the threat of war by a State operating under an illegitimate Templis Dragonaur coup d'etat, it would have been perfectly entitled to do. In fact, it could be argued that the strategically sound thing to do would have been to forcibly seize every State-run station and turn everything inside of them towards the war effort. But we didn't.
It should also be noted that Federal Administration - at Ishukone's request - sat down with Ishukone representatives to clarify the legality of Ishukone's claim over Intaki's shipping and transport franchise and system development rights. Since the development rights were auctioned by an organisation that did not have authority to issue them, they had no legal standing whatsoever. The Federation had no obligation to respect them. It could quite easily have turfed Ishukone out of Intaki by claiming that the agreement had been made under duress and thus was illegitimate (regardless of whether or not that were true). But we didn't.
Federal Administration left an open offer to the other megacorporations to make similar clarifications, which were ignored - but of course, this came back to bite the megacorporations in the rear when the Federation reclaimed its systems and Heth summarily revoked the development rights. For a State that supposedly prides itself on making good strategic decisions, it's somewhat telling that Ishukone was the only megacorporation with enough business sense to clarify the legality of its investments.
Basically, I think what's really going on here is that some Caldari are sour that Ishukone are better at being Caldari than they are.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2565
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 08:45:31 -
[65] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:
Commerce is indeed the life blood of the cluster.
I would imagine their... trade has done more good for more Caldari than your... rantings.
One who is ranting right now is you, Syagrius. Besides that you have shown yourself unable to accept facts, degenerating yourself to level of brainless gallente propaganda, disrespecting peoples lives with your cruelty.
Pretty much their trade did nothing comparable to what we do. And trade with obvious enemy is a disgrace to ANY Caldari citizen, would they be soldiers or enterpreneurs. Nobody would want to lose honor by trading with enemies. Well, nobody from those, who were raised as Caldari.
Gurista and other honorless criminal elements would though.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
116
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 11:09:03 -
[66] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:James Syagrius wrote:
Commerce is indeed the life blood of the cluster.
I would imagine their... trade has done more good for more Caldari than your... rantings.
One who is ranting right now is you, Syagrius. Besides that you have shown yourself unable to accept facts, degenerating yourself to level of brainless gallente propaganda, disrespecting peoples lives with your cruelty. Pretty much their trade did nothing comparable to what we do. And trade with obvious enemy is a disgrace to ANY Caldari citizen, would they be soldiers or enterpreneurs. Nobody would want to lose honor by trading with enemies. Well, nobody from those, who were raised as Caldari. Gurista and other honorless criminal elements would though.
Commander, did you miss the point about many Caldari corporations, including Kaalakiota, having assets and conducting business in the Federation and the Republic? Or are you of the opinion that any Caldari organisation that trades abroad anywhere other than the Empire, Kingdom & Mandate is committing treason?
If this last is true then a good part of the State is guilty of it.
Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
5873
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 14:57:27 -
[67] - Quote
Let's also take into account that when the Provists attempted to strong-arm the CEP into revoking the corporate status of the Quafe Corporation, the CEP soundly rebuffed them despite the Provists being at the height of their power during the affair. This clearly shows that commerce with the Federation is more important to the State than the ramblings of insane, irrelevant warmongers.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
281
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 15:30:15 -
[68] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Not a bad thing really. People get tired of being "ruled" by representatives elected by people light years away, who sit at desks light years away, and tell us what's good for us. The Syndicate at least has people who don't need a map to find their way around it.
If this happens, it's entirely of that people's own fault. Local politics might not be fashionable or glamorous, but it's the lifeblood of the Federation. Every District Assembly needs citizens to be engaged, to lobby and to vote. There's far too much whining about how the 'elite' run the Senate as if the people don't matter, when the same people refuse to get off their couches and vote. Senators can be held to account by their local assemblies, but only if those deputies have a mandate that scares them. And it's not just at election time - politically active citizens keep their representatives - I was about to write 'honest' but that would be an overly extravagant claim - keep them attentive.
It should not be forgotten that despite the calls of locally elected representatives in the Senate, the ability to vote and be counted was denied to a large number of Federal citizens for quite some time.
It serves as a prime example of what happens when local opinion is overridden by decision making powers far away in Villore.
Security fears led to the undermining of the heart of democracy of which the Federation is so proud. It led to disillusionment from which some have yet to recover.
To hand-wave the disenfranchisement of politically informed and active citizens away so casually is damning.
Bataav
Mahesha | Intaki Liberation Front & Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2565
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:20:35 -
[69] - Quote
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Commander, did you miss the point about many Caldari corporations, including Kaalakiota, having assets and conducting business in the Federation and the Republic? Or are you of the opinion that any Caldari organisation that trades abroad anywhere other than the Empire, Kingdom & Mandate is committing treason?
If this last is true then a good part of the State is guilty of it.
Conducting business in Federation and Republic territory doesn't involve dealing with enemies. You will probably be surprised, but I myself conduct a lot of business in Federal space. I won't tell you exact nature of my business, but the goods I... procure... are sent to Caldari space to serve Caldari people.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
750
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 17:49:51 -
[70] - Quote
I think both Mssrs Kinnison and Bataav make laudable points, but have also left some out. Yes, if the electorate was more engaged it would be much more difficult for elected representatives to ignore them. Yes, many were unjustly denied the right to vote despite the will of the population in Low Security regions in Federation space.
I think it is fair to say that apathy of voters and detachment of leaders are not the only evils that undermine democracy. The "security fears" mentioned by Bataav were hardly inconsequential. How does a free democracy conduct a fair election when its people are under the bootheel of an invading army? I think the Federation failed its citizens by not coming up with a better answer, but it wasn't a simple question. |
Jason Galente
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
223
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 18:48:39 -
[71] - Quote
I am a proud citizen of Pandemic space, but my birthplace will always be Bourynes. Any way I can participate in this assembly? I may be interested. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1027
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 19:28:54 -
[72] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Commander, did you miss the point about many Caldari corporations, including Kaalakiota, having assets and conducting business in the Federation and the Republic? Or are you of the opinion that any Caldari organisation that trades abroad anywhere other than the Empire, Kingdom & Mandate is committing treason?
If this last is true then a good part of the State is guilty of it.
Conducting business in Federation and Republic territory doesn't involve dealing with enemies. You will probably be surprised, but I myself conduct a lot of business in Federal space. I won't tell you exact nature of my business, but the goods I... procure... are sent to Caldari space to serve Caldari people.
Honest question, I conducted(won't say whether I still do or not) business with caldari associates, yet I'm an "enemy to the state," How's that work exactly? My business with them generally wass gathering supplies to combat other capsuleers who mind you shoot both the Federation and Caldari militia members equally as a nonentity. (Personally I try my best to not shoot either ACTUAL sides because it isn't my fight nor my concern) Any business I did directly with the Caldari was generally coolant and other similar materials production, thus nonmilitary based. |
James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1252
|
Posted - 2016.04.17 22:10:58 -
[73] - Quote
IGÇÖm not ranting dear; I am just making conversation. I assure you if I were ranting you would notice.
You see my dear conversation is one of the civilized arts. We canGÇÖt all stump through life with a sword and shield, growling. A few of us do try to preserve the dignities.
But I think I am piecing together the rules that govern that muddled little mind of yours.
Recently in another conversation you had some rather unkind things to say to Mr. Sinjin Mokk.
Diana Kim wrote:You speak about me like you know me, but you know nothing, Sinjin Mokk...... that I will look from above at your inferiority caused by your comment about my person and will consider your point of view from this position.
Interesting indeed. So letGÇÖs reviewGǪ.
Your difficultly with me stems from my use of the word GÇÿallegedGÇÖ in describing the treatment of some State prisoners of war.
Now you belittle Mr. Mokk, a very charming gentlemanGǪ. If ever there was one.
So in effect you believe, if someone disagrees with GÇÿyourGÇÖ interpretation of events they are a liar, and if they disagree with GÇÿyourGÇÖ position they are an idiot.
Then you make a rather startling confessionGǪ
Diana Kim wrote:I myself never really tried to convert hostile PoWs to anything, since I believe that their convictions is not my business. My business is to either transport them to the entity that will take care about them, or to provide them with fair trial and execute sentence in accordance with current codes.
One wonders what percentage of the GÇÿfair trialsGÇÖ you have so graciously provided ended in execution.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2565
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 04:14:46 -
[74] - Quote
James Syagrius wrote:
But I think I am piecing together the rules that govern that muddled little mind of yours.
Don't you dare to speak of Caldari Officer like that! We already know you are a liar so your attempts are futile. You, heartless cruel gallentean propagandist, you are a shame to the whole humanity.
Look what you write else.
James Syagrius wrote:
IGÇÖm not ranting dear; I am just making conversation. I assure you if I were ranting you would notice.
You see my dear conversation is one of the civilized arts.
Oh, so denying facts and covering atrocities that are being committed currently daily and thousands of people being tortured is "civilized art" to you? Is that you call "conversation"?
You are disgusting creature.
James Syagrius wrote:
So in effect you believe, if someone disagrees with GÇÿyourGÇÖ interpretation of events they are a liar, and if they disagree with GÇÿyourGÇÖ position they are an idiot.
Another one lie of a typical gallentean propagandist. Luckily, your status as a liar was already proven elsewhere.
James Syagrius wrote:
Your difficultly with me stems from my use of the word GÇÿallegedGÇÖ in describing the treatment of some State prisoners of war.
I have dedicated a WHOLE conversation where you had your chance and you have failed. And I have described in detail what the problem was. This discussion doesn't belong in here. Only results of it.
James Syagrius wrote:
One wonders what percentage of the GÇÿfair trialsGÇÖ you have so graciously provided ended in execution.
98.5% And if your dirty mouth wants to dare to claim they weren't fair, I assure you, those who weren't executed were found to be innocent, they were mostly captives and passengers. So, before making any other claims on that matter and saying I would "release" enemies and was unfair, I tell you this. Don't you dare to come to discussion of these unless you will be able to bring SOLID proofs of their guilt. If you do, I give a word of Caldari Officer, I'll find them wherever they would be hiding and I will bring them back to justice. Otherwise, don't bother me about it ever again.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
753
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 06:56:55 -
[75] - Quote
Didn't I say something about personal attacks in this thread? I'm pretty sure I said something about personal attacks in this thread.
Can we like, not? |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
5874
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 11:13:53 -
[76] - Quote
Rinai, apparently, at least one person is completely incapable. I name no names, but I could. But I won't.
But I could.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
8275
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 12:03:25 -
[77] - Quote
One of my pilots, Sirlan Takahi, whipped up this gem the last time Kim and I exchanged words over Heth. Her response was as questionable as her disavowal of open trade relations is here.
Ah well.
As said, pilots, best not to feed the troll.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
753
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 14:45:35 -
[78] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:I am a proud citizen of Pandemic space, but my birthplace will always be Bourynes. Any way I can participate in this assembly? I may be interested.
The Assembly welcomes those residents of the various Capsuleer Empires who still love the Federation homeland and wish to see it prosper. Indeed, since we exist as a lobby of and for Capsuleer interests it would hardly behoove us to exclude the large demographic that nullsec represents.
Contact me directly with a secure means to forward your invite.
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James Syagrius
Reclamation Technologies
1255
|
Posted - 2016.04.18 22:37:33 -
[79] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:Didn't I say something about personal attacks in this thread? I'm pretty sure I said something about personal attacks in this thread.
Can we like, not?
Oh... Well I do beg your pardon. I will of course respect your request and refrain from further comment regarding Ms. Kim's mental acumen in this thread.
GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
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Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
793
|
Posted - 2016.04.23 16:09:13 -
[80] - Quote
Like the rest of New Eden, we've been watching the Succession Trials with keen interest. Now that they have concluded, I'm sure many on the IGS will be discussing the wider ramifications of the ascension of the first Tash-Murkon to the Throne. As the Amarr transition into this new era, life in the Federation goes on, and billions of Gallente citizens begin to look for new entertainment and controversy elsewhere.
So far the Assembly is off to a good start. We've been conducting a spirited discussion on the subject of civil conflict on the Jin-Mei homeworld. A full report on the issue will be prepared and publicized once the matter has been fully examined. We continue to welcome new Delegates, as we hope to input from as many capsuleers and communities as possible.
We already have representatives from many diverse backgrounds, but we always want more flavor in the melting pot. If you are interested in joining the discussion, please contact me via evemail.
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