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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:03:00 -
[811]
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
"/emote puts on tinfoil-hat and climbs under the table. Majorleague baseball will get us ALL! YOU HEAR ME???!!! THEY'LL KILL US ALL!!!!!" - Brisi |
Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:05:00 -
[812]
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
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Ctharth
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:08:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
I'd say 75% of this game hasn't been documented. Your interpretation of the situation is flawed. The steps that BoB took to assassinate the Titan is not in question. They deserve every bit of credit for the work they put into geting things 'into place.' Its no different than the GHSC event that shook EVE in the scale and depth it took.
However, what is in question is how the final blow was struck. Every ounce of infiltration that leads up to this kill is, in my oppinion, made null and void by an exploitation in a game mechanic. Should the kill stand? Probably. Should it be the foundation of aggression warning for normal application exiting? Absolutely!
If you can't kill someone that wants to exit the game legitimately within 2 minutes then you don't deserve the kill.
Well the code allowed it so some sort of alternate documentation is lying around.
And stating that 75% of eve is not documented depends on your interpretation of documentation. Documentation in my world is every official post description agent info etc. given out. And in that sense things such as forum posts dev blog, known issues are documentation. and as soon as things get in these or arent working according to those its an exploit.
But no such violation has to my knowledge taken place.. I am very flexible to give in because I dont really see this as the most honourable kill. but its very well within game mechanics.
As soon as you direct me to item info, dev post, dev blog or anything remoptely connected to ccp I will be happy to classify it an exploit as well. But before ccp defines it as an not intended game mechaninc its simply is allowed.
btw. agression warning before logout nice idea. Check logs before logout nice idea. drop out of gang warp to safe cloak and then log ot... maybe the rigth thing to do.
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:11:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
Yes, but are the game mechanics really supposed to leave the pilot in question without a clue?
"/emote puts on tinfoil-hat and climbs under the table. Majorleague baseball will get us ALL! YOU HEAR ME???!!! THEY'LL KILL US ALL!!!!!" - Brisi |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:12:00 -
[815]
Originally by: Aramendel - damage logs (and sounds & effects, which should include the smartbomb animation) are generally turned off for fleet battle situations because the lag they cause. Having them turns on is no realistic option there. If you have any clue what you are talking about you will know this very well - so either you are clueless or trolling.
In the year 2007, I refuse to play a game with crap graphics and sound off. It's CCP's fault, not the player's... the game's gfx are not nearly that good to warrant the need to turn those things off.
Anyway I'm sure the devs are all watching the forums and thinking wth is going on. I wouldn't be proud of this game atm... at all.
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August Personage
Caldari Clarf Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:13:00 -
[816]
Edited by: August Personage on 17/02/2007 11:13:13
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
thats a fair point. although imo, there is a line somewhere which defines an exploit, and this has not crossed it. everything performed as intended by CCP in the game, all the factors involved are as CCP intended, it is merely the intention of bob that differed from CCPs idea. i think its genius, but i can understand why people would think otherwise.
(editted so it makes sense :S)
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:15:00 -
[817]
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
Yes, but are the game mechanics really supposed to leave the pilot in question without a clue?
If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not.
It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting.
ITS HIS FAULT.
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Spaced Skunk
D00M.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:24:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Dekiri Thanks for saving CCP's face here and dismantling the dev hax stuff.
USing passive targeters for this is a known exploit though and so you will have it reimbursed if CCP stick to their policies.
That was unbeleivable dirty, and I also think it is an exploit.
BoB should not get any praise for what they did in that instance, none at all tbh.
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Boksering
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:27:00 -
[819]
this is me getting confused here. why use a Smartbomb and a pasive targeter. I thougth smartbombs did proximity dmg and therefore did not require lock.
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karumba
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:27:00 -
[820]
this is just low.
sorry. I hate spies, it is the magic 'easy buttton'
part of the game sure, still a poor win.
Fight the darn thing in battle and I say congrats, use something stupid like this and make me puke.
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Razor Jaxx
Fate.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:28:00 -
[821]
It's a bit like scoring a goal while the goalkeeper is being treated on the sideline with an injury ; it's within the rules, but not exactly a paramount display of sportsmanship.
The worse part is, it's quite representative of the style of play that EvE stands for nowadays. Ah well.
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Shirei
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:30:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not.
It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting.
ITS HIS FAULT.
It depends on the exact timing. If he announced on TS more or less exactly when he was logging off, he could have been hit while he was in the esc-menu to quit (if he was playing full-screen) or after he closed his client, but before the server registered it. That would have to be rather lucky timing though, so I guess there is only one person who knows.
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Storm Child
Amarr Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:32:00 -
[823]
Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:31:06 Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:29:10 Personally I don't think it's an exploit, but it's certainly a dirty tactic and I'm absolutley disgusted that this was a plot using yet another internal turncoat.
It's hard to believe that people can sink to such a level in order to score a titan kill. Are BoB so weak that this is the only method they can think of to survive?
The sooner BoB is defeated the better in my opinion. Hopefully this will strengthen the allies resolve to achieve this.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:36:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
No, the game mechanics are intended to stop players from logging to save their ships or pods while in combat ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:37:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Edde Bebbi If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not.
It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting.
ITS HIS FAULT.
It depends on the exact timing. If he announced on TS more or less exactly when he was logging off, he could have been hit while he was in the esc-menu to quit (if he was playing full-screen) or after he closed his client, but before the server registered it. That would have to be rather lucky timing though, so I guess there is only one person who knows.
Even then, fortunate timing does not an exploit make.
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:39:00 -
[826]
Originally by: Storm Child Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:31:06 Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:29:10 Personally I don't think it's an exploit, but it's certainly a dirty tactic and I'm absolutley disgusted that this was a plot using yet another internal turncoat.
It's hard to believe that people can sink to such a level in order to score a titan kill. Are BoB so weak that this is the only method they can think of to survive?
The sooner BoB is defeated the better in my opinion. Hopefully this will strengthen the allies resolve to achieve this.
How did your allies in Goonswarm and RA find out about the LV 'titan' in construction?
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Paltar
Eternal Rising
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:39:00 -
[827]
Credit where credit is due and all.
However the bottom line is all thats been proved is you can't kill a titan in a fight.
only when its unable to defend itself/off line. Fair enough Cyvok's was a mistake, and well capitalized on.. the fact that you chose to engineer a situation to do it again shows you up... if anyone was gonna bring down a titan face to face, tet a tet I'd have bet money on BoB.
Once you bring one down in a stand up slug fest you can brag... until then your just another kid who googled the cheat codes cos the EvE difficulty setting was too high. http://eternalrising.net |
Liabrath
Gallente Argent Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:40:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Edde Bebbi If I play blindfolded then I wont know if I am agressed. Similarly If he plays without dmg notifications on HOW CAN HE EXPECT TO KNOW if he is aggressed or not.
It would seem obvious to anyone with half a brain that if there is a concern people will agress you, then 15mins before you log you turn damage indicators back on, or at the very least glance at your log before quitting.
ITS HIS FAULT.
It depends on the exact timing. If he announced on TS more or less exactly when he was logging off, he could have been hit while he was in the esc-menu to quit (if he was playing full-screen) or after he closed his client, but before the server registered it. That would have to be rather lucky timing though, so I guess there is only one person who knows.
Then he deserved to die, don't be stupid, D2 got stupid and bob took advantage of the stupidity. Carelessness on your part cant be blamed on the other person, but only on you. (no directed at your shirei but the titan pilot)
It's good for d2, it will teach them a lesson, they needed a lesson here. === === === === === If I win an auction, please send me a contract link by EvE mail. |
Ctharth
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:40:00 -
[829]
Hehe well another interesting question came up here. Sportsmanship...
Well sportsmanship are good in game eve is a game and hence sportmanship is good in eve.
But looking at modern society wars are no longer about sportmanship. You stick to the geneve convention.. well mostly at least. and then you try to send in covert soldiers to take out strategic targets when they least expect it.
There are wars in eve. And if you focus on the war part well what goes RL goes eve. so if wars are part of eve. whyshouldnt war tactics be part of eve?
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Shirei
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:40:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi Even then, fortunate timing does not an exploit make.
Depends on what your definition of an exploit is. It is certainly abusing the aggro timer for something it was not intended for.
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:41:00 -
[831]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Jarjar
Originally by: August Personage d2 have also stated their pilot logged off, no h4xsploitz here guys. bob used a tactic within the game mechanics, REGARDLESS of whether that was the intended use of said mechanic it is not an exploit imo
Read up on the very definition of "exploit".
Hint: It has something to do with using a game mechanic in a way that it was not intended to be used to gain un unfair advantage.
As has been said over a dozen times, the game mechanics ARE INTENDED TO MAKE YOUR SHIP STAY IN SPACE FOR 15MINS AFTER AGGRESSION.
No, the game mechanics are intended to stop players from logging to save their ships or pods while in combat
No, thats just how your interpreting it now your allies titan has died. Freighters stay hostile aggroed when webbed into warp, this is the same.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:41:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Ctharth Edited by: Ctharth on 17/02/2007 11:36:56 Hehe well another interesting question came up here. Sportsmanship...
Well sportsmanship are good in game eve is a game and hence sportmanship is good in eve.
But looking at modern society wars are no longer about sportmanship. You stick to the geneve convention.. well mostly at least. and then you try to send in covert soldiers to take out strategic targets when they least expect it.
There are wars in eve. And if you focus on the war part well what goes RL goes eve. so if wars are part of eve. whyshouldnt war tactics be part of eve?
I do in no way think its honourable or anything... but its efective.
Its a ******* game. What is so hard to understand about wanting a little sportmanship in a ******* game?
-------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:42:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: Edde Bebbi Even then, fortunate timing does not an exploit make.
Depends on what your definition of an exploit is. It is certainly abusing the aggro timer for something it was not intended for.
Can mining, Instajumps, Freighter Webbing, Carrier Hauling blah blah blah
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Ctharth
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:43:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Ctharth Edited by: Ctharth on 17/02/2007 11:36:56 Hehe well another interesting question came up here. Sportsmanship...
Well sportsmanship are good in game eve is a game and hence sportmanship is good in eve.
But looking at modern society wars are no longer about sportmanship. You stick to the geneve convention.. well mostly at least. and then you try to send in covert soldiers to take out strategic targets when they least expect it.
There are wars in eve. And if you focus on the war part well what goes RL goes eve. so if wars are part of eve. whyshouldnt war tactics be part of eve?
I do in no way think its honourable or anything... but its efective.
Its a ******* game. What is so hard to understand about wanting a little sportmanship in a ******* game?
Why so upset.. I said it was a game... and therefore some would make think of sportsmanship(which I am totally supporting) but other see this as a game with wars and war tactics in it...
So chill down its a game..
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:45:00 -
[835]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 11:48:49
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Storm Child Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:31:06 Edited by: Storm Child on 17/02/2007 11:29:10 Personally I don't think it's an exploit, but it's certainly a dirty tactic and I'm absolutley disgusted that this was a plot using yet another internal turncoat.
It's hard to believe that people can sink to such a level in order to score a titan kill. Are BoB so weak that this is the only method they can think of to survive?
The sooner BoB is defeated the better in my opinion. Hopefully this will strengthen the allies resolve to achieve this.
How did your allies in Goonswarm and RA find out about the LV 'titan' in construction?
Irrelevent. The issue at hand is not how the titan was found out or the legitimacy of the spy. The issue is the specific tactic that the spy used in order to aggress the Titan, and whether that is considered exploiting the game mechanics to give an adversary an unfair disadvantage or giving yourself and unfair advantages.
The question comes up becuase the supposed intent of the aggression timer is to stop people from logging in combat in order to save their ships or pods. The titan was not in combat, expecting to be in combat, or anywhere near having taken aggressive action or having aggressive action taken against it. [Edit: Nor was the titan in a position where it could be reasonbly expect to be attacked, such as when hauling anything in a frieghter anywhere] The issue is whether the aggress was legitimate use of game mechanics or not, not whether or not the spy was legitimate.
This question will be solved by GMs and there isnt much else to worry about.
[edit for clearer information] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:49:00 -
[836]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 11:48:49 It's actually fun to see that whatever we are saying and showing from the EULA, Edde Bebbi are still defending Band Of Cheaters, whatever we say.
Lets just petition this ass for beeing an idiot that only trolls and whine + are defending BoC when the EULA clearly shows that Edde Bebbi is wrong in all ways.
He's only here to make peoples angry.
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:56:00 -
[837]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 11:48:49 It's actually fun to see that whatever we are saying and showing from the EULA, Edde Bebbi are still defending Band Of Cheaters, whatever we say.
Lets just petition this ass for beeing an idiot that only trolls and whine + are defending BoC when the EULA clearly shows that Edde Bebbi is wrong in all ways.
He's only here to make peoples angry.
I would honestly have said exactly the same thing about you. Lost any faction NPCing ships recently?
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Ctharth
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:57:00 -
[838]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 11:48:49 It's actually fun to see that whatever we are saying and showing from the EULA, Edde Bebbi are still defending Band Of Cheaters, whatever we say.
Lets just petition this ass for beeing an idiot that only trolls and whine + are defending BoC when the EULA clearly shows that Edde Bebbi is wrong in all ways.
He's only here to make peoples angry.
EULA refers to the general rules in order to make use of it game mechanics should be used in a way it was not intended. since there not yet has been one prrof that this was not intended the paragraphs in the EULA doesnt mean a thing. The moment a gm or dev says otherwise the eula comes into play
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:59:00 -
[839]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 12:02:48
Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 11:48:49 It's actually fun to see that whatever we are saying and showing from the EULA, Edde Bebbi are still defending Band Of Cheaters, whatever we say.
Lets just petition this ass for beeing an idiot that only trolls and whine + are defending BoC when the EULA clearly shows that Edde Bebbi is wrong in all ways.
He's only here to make peoples angry.
I would honestly have said exactly the same thing about you. Lost any faction NPCing ships recently?
It's like 1 year ago since i lost a faction ship, and if you really had been so updated and good in this game, you should have been knowing that loooooong time ago. A LOT, and i mean a TAD LOAD of players know my name for that. But do i care about it? no
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Naabata
Bureau of Sabotage
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:01:00 -
[840]
Ok so we are learning the big Vulnerablity of the TiTan is when they log off. So a Detailed shut down check list should be followed or a fleet will fast blob and kill it quick no matter what. Actually the last part of the check list should be check Aggression time after having damage information turned ON 20-30 minutes BEFORE you log off. Justice belongs to those who claim it, but let the claimant beware lest he create new injustice by his claim and thus set the bloody pendulum of revenge into its inexorable motion. [u]Frank Herbert[/ |
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