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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Vasili Z
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:06:00 -
[841]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Aramendel - damage logs (and sounds & effects, which should include the smartbomb animation) are generally turned off for fleet battle situations because the lag they cause. Having them turns on is no realistic option there. If you have any clue what you are talking about you will know this very well - so either you are clueless or trolling.
In the year 2007, I refuse to play a game with crap graphics and sound off. It's CCP's fault, not the player's... the game's gfx are not nearly that good to warrant the need to turn those things off.
Anyway I'm sure the devs are all watching the forums and thinking wth is going on. I wouldn't be proud of this game atm... at all.
hahahaha, I just realized this is the only game I play without sound, classic.
------- I smoke pot, because I'm cool. |
Daon Khan
Minmatar Handsome Boy Modeling School
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:10:00 -
[842]
I don't know what world some people are living in, but wake up and grow up. To the allegations made that what BOB did was dirty or dishonorable, all I have to say is to brush up on your history and war (or for the illiterate, just watch the Dirty Dozen or any other sabotage/spy movie). Using spies in war is totally acceptable and smart, moreover it's efficient and saves lives or in this case ISK and time. Have you ever been in a fight? You mean to tell me that if you were up against a big guy that "everyone" is saying can't be killed and you kick him in the nuts, while he's not looking right at you, and use that advantage to win and save yourself a pummeling that it's dishonorable or dirty? Please wake up... go pick a fight and box anyone and you'll walk away a "winner", maybe, and still have bumps and bruises. BTW what's honorable about any fight? Really? Two egos bumping heads instead of sharing space...
Is EVE supposed to be about mining peacefully and everyone building Cap ships to haul and fit mining lasers and live in ****** dorey land? Get over it. This is EVE and we all like it cus its hardcore and dirty and not fair and we all love to play so guess what? Get your own spies or ask Goonswarm or Red to do it (the current flavor fo the month good guys who you all loved to hate a few weeks ago). I'm willing to bet my herb and pipe that if Goonies had been smart enough to think this up and pull this off all you anti-BoBettes would be stroking Remedials e-peen and drooling on it. EVE is Darwin's Contraption and it's survival of the fittest so if you want to beat big bad BoB adapt evolve and when you come to your senses, thank BoB for teaching you a little something about what it takes to win and survive in EVE oh and also for giving all you wannabe heros a big bad wolf to go pile up on (except this isn't WoW and BoB is alot smarter than the mobs you fools are use to humping in Blackrock Spire). There is no honor in war, it's about survival. You brought the war to their doorstep so take it like men and fight instead of whine and ***** exploit and CCP sucks and blah blah wah wah.
Aight rant off. Go watch a James Bond movie and ***** and whine about how dishonorable he is and guess what? He gets the fine women and the dry martinis and you ***** and whine on forums.
PS not a BoB fanboi just an EVE fanboi and I love how there's better ways to skin a cat than knowingly warping node crashing amounts of ships into a system hoping your numbers alone and not your enginuity will win the day... BTW, props to D2 for disclosing this and being sports about it and BoB for once again proving that its not about just raising the bar... there is no bar.
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Dragutinovic
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:13:00 -
[843]
Originally by: WOTANKN thanks overon for translat or so **** happens spys 4tw
*snip* please do not post GM correspondence on the forums. Thanks. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
May the loss heat youre will even more to kill BoB
Gl m8 and sorry for yer loss .
_____________
Im back !
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Klaus Stoertebeker
Riders of Rohan
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:16:00 -
[844]
Originally by: Vasili Z
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Aramendel - damage logs (and sounds & effects, which should include the smartbomb animation) are generally turned off for fleet battle situations because the lag they cause. Having them turns on is no realistic option there. If you have any clue what you are talking about you will know this very well - so either you are clueless or trolling.
In the year 2007, I refuse to play a game with crap graphics and sound off. It's CCP's fault, not the player's... the game's gfx are not nearly that good to warrant the need to turn those things off.
Anyway I'm sure the devs are all watching the forums and thinking wth is going on. I wouldn't be proud of this game atm... at all.
hahahaha, I just realized this is the only game I play without sound, classic.
yeah...a game that recieves prices for its nice grafix etc, but the poeple are forced to deactivate all those effects and sound and so on to be able to play with A BIT LESS lag...or even to be able to play at all. (and ebbe-trolli, dont start to argue with slow computers or any other bull**** that might come into your sick mind...using a dual core machine with 4gig ram and a geforce 8 should be enough to play a 4-years old game...but well, seems like it isnt...or its just not the pc that causes the problems...)
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News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:25:00 -
[845]
Originally by: NightmareX
12.1 What is an exploit?
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit.
Though every effort is made to avoid glitches that enable exploits to be used, they are occasionally discovered. Players have the responsibility of understanding how the game works and keeping themselves informed about changes to the game in order to comprehend what is deemed as an exploit. Those who are charged with employing the use of exploits will be reprimanded, which may include temporary suspension or a permanent ban of the account. Professing ignorance that you didnÆt know you were using an exploit will not prevent the enforcement of this rule.
Well it doesn't say anything exactly about the agression timer, but the way D2 lost their Titan is after what's written under "12.1 What is an exploit?" an exploit.
15 minute agro timer is game mechanics. I think we can all agree on that. The purpose of this particular mechanic is to keep ships in space for 15 minutes if they log off with aggro. So far nothing new.
Explain to me how what BoB did is an unfair advantage though? Is it because D2 didn't consider the possibility? One side being smarter than the other is indeed an advantage, but I'd hardly call it unfair.
The only way this could be seen as an unfair advantage, would be if D2 didn't have the exact same option. D2 could use this exact same tactic on BoB's titan. Both BoB and D2 have the option to view their logs and see when the last act of agression against their titans was performed.
Regardless of moral views (lame, cheap, brilliant, intelligent, etc), the only thing that matters is if BoB did something that D2 couldn't. The same mechanics that got BoB this kill could be employed by D2. The same countermeasures can be taken by both of them. There's no unfair advantage gained by using the game mechanics.
Unless you want to argue that having a brain and using it is giving people an unfair advantage, there's no exploit here. You may find it disgusting, but don't call it an exploit. It's clearly not.
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:27:00 -
[846]
Originally by: News
Originally by: NightmareX
12.1 What is an exploit?
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit.
Though every effort is made to avoid glitches that enable exploits to be used, they are occasionally discovered. Players have the responsibility of understanding how the game works and keeping themselves informed about changes to the game in order to comprehend what is deemed as an exploit. Those who are charged with employing the use of exploits will be reprimanded, which may include temporary suspension or a permanent ban of the account. Professing ignorance that you didnÆt know you were using an exploit will not prevent the enforcement of this rule.
Well it doesn't say anything exactly about the agression timer, but the way D2 lost their Titan is after what's written under "12.1 What is an exploit?" an exploit.
15 minute agro timer is game mechanics. I think we can all agree on that. The purpose of this particular mechanic is to keep ships in space for 15 minutes if they log off with aggro. So far nothing new.
Explain to me how what BoB did is an unfair advantage though? Is it because D2 didn't consider the possibility? One side being smarter than the other is indeed an advantage, but I'd hardly call it unfair.
The only way this could be seen as an unfair advantage, would be if D2 didn't have the exact same option. D2 could use this exact same tactic on BoB's titan. Both BoB and D2 have the option to view their logs and see when the last act of agression against their titans was performed.
Regardless of moral views (lame, cheap, brilliant, intelligent, etc), the only thing that matters is if BoB did something that D2 couldn't. The same mechanics that got BoB this kill could be employed by D2. The same countermeasures can be taken by both of them. There's no unfair advantage gained by using the game mechanics.
Unless you want to argue that having a brain and using it is giving people an unfair advantage, there's no exploit here. You may find it disgusting, but don't call it an exploit. It's clearly not.
OMG, do i need to explain how it works to you to in like 7877897890008 languages before you understand the whole picture here?
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
La Pounania
Minmatar Majestic Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:29:00 -
[847]
so bob lamed / cheated a kill, like they can fight fair he ______________________________________________________ |
Guardian Angell
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:29:00 -
[848]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=477671 ________________ Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups - Under Siege 2 |
Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:29:00 -
[849]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Anyway I'm sure the devs are all watching the forums and thinking wth is going on. I wouldn't be proud of this game atm... at all.
QFT - if that's what the oh-so-great EVE endgame looks like (ie. when it's all about abusing broken game mechanics like node crashes, login queues and logoff timers), I'm not sure EVE deserves a mention among great PvP games anymore, not even remotely
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Edde Bebbi
Amarr The Griffin
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:31:00 -
[850]
No you have already demonstrated your complete lack of comprehension skills already.
The aggro timer is to prevent people logging off while aggrod. Its not to prevent people from running from fights, thats just an effect.
Anyway, the titan ran from the covert ops's smartbomb :P
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News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:33:00 -
[851]
Originally by: NightmareX OMG, do i need to explain how it works to you to in like 7877897890008 languages before you understand the whole picture here?
No, you just need to explain how game mechanics were used in such a way that D2 had no possible counter within the current game mechanics.
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:35:00 -
[852]
Originally by: Edde Bebbi No you have already demonstrated your complete lack of comprehension skills already.
The aggro timer is to prevent people logging off while aggrod. Its not to prevent people from running from fights, thats just an effect.
Anyway, the titan ran from the covert ops's smartbomb :P
And you still don't get it
Now go and kiss / lick BoC even more so you can get a chance to join BoC, because of you uber skills and experience in this game
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:43:00 -
[853]
My thought is this: We have had several patches since the first titan went down and the aggro timer issue was brought up. Why has CCP not given us an aggro timer in 0.0. Originaly it was argued that in 0.0 its not important being aggroed is of no consequence. Correct me if I am wrong but isnt a multi billion asset loss due to faulty game mechanics tat would be an easy fix of consequence. Now as to whether or not the spy used a known exploit to aggress the titan, thats for CCP to decide...(three guesses as to how they rule...and the first two dont count).
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Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:43:00 -
[854]
My thought is this: We have had several patches since the first titan went down and the aggro timer issue was brought up. Why has CCP not given us an aggro timer in 0.0. Originaly it was argued that in 0.0 its not important being aggroed is of no consequence. Correct me if I am wrong but isnt a multi billion asset loss due to faulty game mechanics tat would be an easy fix of consequence. Now as to whether or not the spy used a known exploit to aggress the titan, thats for CCP to decide...(three guesses as to how they rule...and the first two dont count).
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Spaced Skunk
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:50:00 -
[855]
I am seeing EvE in a very different way now.
People having to use these kind of tactics to kill something like a Titan. I remember the last public announcement on EvETV, where the players got told the devs wanted BIG and LONG LASTING battles.
Exploit or not, wtf were BoB thinking? So cowardly and to even get a praise of a GM or dev (so I heard)..wtf?
So yea if you scanned down a titan that was offline, you'd shoot it eh? Course you would.
Personally though, getting someone to force the players aggression timer to be 15 minutes, knowing they just logged off and have no idea, to me that is an 'exploit', the pilot logged off knowing he was safe, I beleive they took precaution in doing so, as you would with such an asset.
It made it worse by making it look like the pilot tried to log off to save his Titan.
Putting spys in EvE is a worthy tactic, it happens is real life, so I am not calling BoB lame (just a bit :p), the tactic was after all genious, however manipulated the agression timer mechanics, to get an unfair advantage, as the Titan pilot was not technically playing EvE at the time.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:51:00 -
[856]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 12:49:14
Originally by: Edde Bebbi No you have already demonstrated your complete lack of comprehension skills already.
The aggro timer is to prevent people logging off while aggrod. Its not to prevent people from running from fights, thats just an effect.
Anyway, the titan ran from the covert ops's smartbomb :P
You have cause and effect backwards.
Purpose is a function of intelliegent design. Something that is not designed cannot have purpose. Purpose as well denotes intent and logical thought.
The developers did not say "we want to prevent people from logging when aggrod" and then proceed to make a mechanic that would achieve that goal. We can assume this, because such a goal is, from a design standpoint, rediciulous. It would be like saying that you want a specific ship to have 4 weapons and so you gave it 342 dps. When the cause is clearly you wanted it to do 342 dps, and the effect is that it recieved 4 weapons because of it.
Similarly here, the effect is that people are prevented form logging off while aggressed. And the intent is to stop people from running from fights.
It is easist to see this by examining a conflict resolution.
Problem: People are logging out to save their ships and pods when they should not be able to Solution: Make people who have given or recieved a hostile flagged action in the last 15 minutes stay in space for 15 minutes. Implementation: How it works on the server.
Any deviation from problem to implementation will result in an EULA violation according to the plain text. Though there is specific language in there to limit liability when it is not know the action would cause a breach. The breach is caused by imperfect solutions to the problem of stoping people from logging and getting to their ship.
Similarly we can look at POSs.
Problem: Player Owned Stations need to be safe havens in space for them to operate. Solution: Create a space around the station that doesnt allow targeting Implementation: How it goes on TQ... whoops passive targeters.
Now the breach happens due to imperfect coding that has allowed a bug to get through.
In essesnce, they are the same thing, one is simply an oversight in implementation and one is an oversight in solution. What matters though is the intent.
I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
edit: It could also be argued that the kill occured because of faulty implementation of the aggro timer, which would directly correlate to the passive targeter exploit in manner according to the EULA. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goldstriker
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:53:00 -
[857]
Hmmm this topic is a flame fest again. This Titan kill was a good one, better then the one against ASCN. Eve try alliance use spies, GOONS turning of POS and some alliance also hac killboard...and that is not BOB. SO all players that perhaps are between 10 and 1 stop flame and look on your own alliance.....RA the king of exploits.....Tell the bees to swarm to crash the NOD so no one can log back in and then bring in the RA capital fleet.....that more cheat then a spy....But whatever.....BOB, LV are not perfect, but they are just as perfect as AAA, D2 and perhaps better then GOONS/RA.....whith exploits and fair play.
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News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:57:00 -
[858]
Originally by: Goumindong I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
Except that there's nothing you can do against the passive targeter bug, while it's very easy to check your logs for the last time you were agressed.
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Boksering
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:05:00 -
[859]
I and my noob ass still dont get it and didnt get an answer.. why is passive targeters and Smartombs both in the picture.
Why would the cov ops need a passive targeter if it had a smartbomb?
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:08:00 -
[860]
Originally by: News
Originally by: Goumindong I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
Except that there's nothing you can do against the passive targeter bug, while it's very easy to check your logs for the last time you were agressed.
The aggression timer was put in place because of players who would log off to save their ship. If the initial D2 statement is true, then the aggression timer is being used to kill someone outside of regular gameplay. Just like logging off to avoid death is deplorable, I find using a spy to initiate the timer to kill a ship while logged off equally deplorable.
The feature was meant to deter people from escaping combat by logging off. Now it is being used as a tool for killing titans. ----
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Jarjar
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:10:00 -
[861]
Edited by: Jarjar on 17/02/2007 13:07:10
Originally by: Boksering I and my noob ass still dont get it and didnt get an answer.. why is passive targeters and Smartombs both in the picture.
Why would the cov ops need a passive targeter if it had a smartbomb?
Link There's no passive targeter...
Edit: Saladin, exactly what I think.
"/emote puts on tinfoil-hat and climbs under the table. Majorleague baseball will get us ALL! YOU HEAR ME???!!! THEY'LL KILL US ALL!!!!!" - Brisi |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:13:00 -
[862]
Originally by: News
Originally by: Goumindong I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
Except that there's nothing you can do against the passive targeter bug, while it's very easy to check your logs for the last time you were agressed.
Unless they aggress you right as you are logging off. But even then, that aggression breaks the chain presented, because it goes agaisnt the intent, and uses the mechanics to achieve an unintended result.
Whether or not anything comes of any petition or what any final ruling is, that is the complete arguement. And it is internally and externally consistant. Im not trying to make the arguement that the titan should or will be reimbursed, simply correcting misconceptions about both sides of the arguement, which hinges, essentialy, on whether or not such a use is unintended, something that we cant, and only the folks in charge, can answer. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Minmatar Citizen 138031
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:18:00 -
[863]
Just like to point out a couple of things here for the colalition.
- Goons hacked the game client to show standings in local before it was added to the game, which forced CCP to also add it to level the playing field. Dont say they was going to add it anyhow because you remember talk about removing local ?
-AAA,RA,Russian devision of people since the start of the game ( aka RUS ) , early on the game RUS was banned from the game for duping in game items, mainly a million megacyte. AAA 30+ account banned for complex exploiting.
-D2, Used a fan site to match IP's to find spies on there team speak server. So they broke the law and they also heavily meta gamed. ( also the domain in question is owned by CCP, OMG DEVS ? )
So you guys have nothing to scream about.
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Skeltek
Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:22:00 -
[864]
Edited by: Skeltek on 17/02/2007 13:19:11
Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2007 12:49:14
Originally by: Edde Bebbi No you have already demonstrated your complete lack of comprehension skills already.
The aggro timer is to prevent people logging off while aggrod. Its not to prevent people from running from fights, thats just an effect.
Anyway, the titan ran from the covert ops's smartbomb :P
You have cause and effect backwards.
Purpose is a function of intelliegent design. Something that is not designed cannot have purpose. Purpose as well denotes intent and logical thought.
The developers did not say "we want to prevent people from logging when aggrod" and then proceed to make a mechanic that would achieve that goal. We can assume this, because such a goal is, from a design standpoint, rediciulous. It would be like saying that you want a specific ship to have 4 weapons and so you gave it 342 dps. When the cause is clearly you wanted it to do 342 dps, and the effect is that it recieved 4 weapons because of it.
Similarly here, the effect is that people are prevented form logging off while aggressed. And the intent is to stop people from running from fights.
It is easist to see this by examining a conflict resolution.
Problem: People are logging out to save their ships and pods when they should not be able to Solution: Make people who have given or recieved a hostile flagged action in the last 15 minutes stay in space for 15 minutes. Implementation: How it works on the server.
Any deviation from problem to implementation will result in an EULA violation according to the plain text. Though there is specific language in there to limit liability when it is not know the action would cause a breach. The breach is caused by imperfect solutions to the problem of stoping people from logging and getting to their ship.
Similarly we can look at POSs.
Problem: Player Owned Stations need to be safe havens in space for them to operate. Solution: Create a space around the station that doesnt allow targeting Implementation: How it goes on TQ... whoops passive targeters.
Now the breach happens due to imperfect coding that has allowed a bug to get through.
In essesnce, they are the same thing, one is simply an oversight in implementation and one is an oversight in solution. What matters though is the intent.
I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
edit: It could also be argued that the kill occured because of faulty implementation of the aggro timer, which would directly correlate to the passive targeter exploit in manner according to the EULA.
Stunningly suprising how good you formulated exactly my thoughts up to the smallest detail.
However what I wanted to add was that I feel sad not to see any BoB member flame about the technique with witch the titan got killed. I usualy blame D2 also on forums if I regard my alliance to have done something wrong. But even cosidering the legendary high activity of BoB members on the forums..., I never ever heard someone criticize something he deems wrong, if it was commited by his own alliance.
Too bad it seems noone in our age is interested anymore in what is right or wrong. As long as it is not bound to their interest in any way, it will not touch their hearts any more...
regards, Skeltek
ps: just to formulate it more clear: Why aren¦t there D2 people talking pro-BoB? Why aren¦t any BoB members posting their opinion that they consider it lame/grief gameplay? Too much propaganda, too few real opinions I guess...
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Dragutinovic
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:23:00 -
[865]
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 138031
So you guys have nothing to scream about.
Except they and at least certain peopel have been granted favorism others didnt for years .
They got away with some severe stuff while on same time people for minor things got banned .
Those certain peopel still have all rights granted at teh cost of people being griefed out of game and at the cost of a reputation .
Sad really esp for those in BoB who werent involved and might get pointed for the rest of their EvE Career . _____________
Im back !
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:24:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 17/02/2007 13:21:23
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 138031 Just like to point out a couple of things here for the colalition.
- Goons hacked the game client to show standings in local before it was added to the game, which forced CCP to also add it to level the playing field. Dont say they was going to add it anyhow because you remember talk about removing local ?
-AAA,RA,Russian devision of people since the start of the game ( aka RUS ) , early on the game RUS was banned from the game for duping in game items, mainly a million megacyte. AAA 30+ account banned for complex exploiting.
-D2, Used a fan site to match IP's to find spies on there team speak server. So they broke the law and they also heavily meta gamed. ( also the domain in question is owned by CCP, OMG DEVS ? )
So you guys have nothing to scream about.
reality check!!1!
i think it's not wrong to say that EVERY of the major powerblocks in 0.0 got their fair piece of stinking fish. and BoB is definitely NOT excluded from this (and according to recent events it seems BoB got quite a large chunk of the stinking fish). ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:26:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 138031 Just like to point out a couple of things here for the colalition.
- Goons hacked the game client to show standings in local before it was added to the game, which forced CCP to also add it to level the playing field. Dont say they was going to add it anyhow because you remember talk about removing local ?
-AAA,RA,Russian devision of people since the start of the game ( aka RUS ) , early on the game RUS was banned from the game for duping in game items, mainly a million megacyte. AAA 30+ account banned for complex exploiting.
-D2, Used a fan site to match IP's to find spies on there team speak server. So they broke the law and they also heavily meta gamed. ( also the domain in question is owned by CCP, OMG DEVS ? )
So you guys have nothing to scream about.
Well. First you should join a dummy corp so you an post with your alt without it being deleted.
But for the goons, the client hack was technically not editing game data, and CCP ruled it "ok".
For the rest. True, however, that has little to do with the question at hand. Its a "Tu quoque" arguement, and a common logical fallacy. What anyone else has done is irrelvent to the question of whether or not its an EULA breach.
Now, i think you are getting at is the question of whether or not BoB is "in the wrong" that can be fairly easily answered. You cannot exploit a bug that you do not know to be against the rules. Since BoB could not know developer intent on the matter they would not know whether or not such an action would be considered a legitimate use of game mechanics or not, they cant be held liable for any consequences. The titan might get re-imbursed, but no disciplinary measures could be taken. At least, not until such an action occured a second time when it was known to be an EULA breach. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
News
Minmatar Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:27:00 -
[868]
Originally by: Saladin
Originally by: News
Originally by: Goumindong I also brought up passive targets because earlier it was mentioned that "d2 can do this as well", and that is true, and it is true of all exploits, since exploiting is not limted to any single player or corporation they are bugs that can be abused by anyone. Especialy when public. The definition of "its fair because you can do it too" does not hold to either the EULA definition or common sense when dealing with other known exploits.
Except that there's nothing you can do against the passive targeter bug, while it's very easy to check your logs for the last time you were agressed.
The aggression timer was put in place because of players who would log off to save their ship. If the initial D2 statement is true, then the aggression timer is being used to kill someone outside of regular gameplay. Just like logging off to avoid death is deplorable, I find using a spy to initiate the timer to kill a ship while logged off equally deplorable.
The feature was meant to deter people from escaping combat by logging off. Now it is being used as a tool for killing titans.
Finding something deplorable does not mean it's an exploit though. Suicide ganking in Jita isn't an exploit. Corp theft isn't an exploit. Ore thieving isn't an exploit. All those have their counters, just as D2 had a counter to BoB's use of mechanics (by checking the log).
And that's not all. Logging off in a warp bubble to avoid aggro isn't classed as an exploit, and there's no counter for that.
I personally don't think what BoB did is deplorable, I think it's a testament to the freedom that EvE offers, and what you can do in it. That's just an opinion though, and everyone is free to hold their own opinion. On the other hand, defining if this an exploit can only be based on facts. And I haven't seen any fact that would class this as an exploit.
Ultimately, the decision is up to the GM's (*). The GM team has a long history of classing unintended use of game mechanics as an exploit only if there's absolutely no counter to it. The simple fact of the matter is that D2 had all the tools they needed to prevent this from happening. Furthermore, you don't live in empire all your life and then suddenly find yourself in a Titan deep in 0.0. The pilot must have had a decent amount of experience. I don't know about you, but if I was flying a multi billion isk e-peen, I'd make damn sure to check my logs for possible aggression before I logged.
(*) Please don't bring the 'GM's = BoB' arguement. Frankly, it's getting old, and it doesn't contribute anything constructive to a theoretical discussion.
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Boksering
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:30:00 -
[869]
Originally by: Jarjar Edited by: Jarjar on 17/02/2007 13:07:10
Originally by: Boksering I and my noob ass still dont get it and didnt get an answer.. why is passive targeters and Smartombs both in the picture.
Why would the cov ops need a passive targeter if it had a smartbomb?
Link There's no passive targeter...
Edit: Saladin, exactly what I think.
Am I totally wrong if I wonder why ppl then are talking about passive targeter exploits... and isnt that the erebus outside of the POS shield?
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Kronn Blackthorne
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:31:00 -
[870]
Edited by: Kronn Blackthorne on 17/02/2007 13:28:27 to me this is showing how perfect this roleplay game is : u can find all the bad things u ll find in RL war / spy / backside / traitor / scam / and so many other naughty stuff ( i won t even speak bout MGRL )
how can u say it s not a good PvP game . PvP doesn t mean Pleased Versus Pleased ... u may like or not like the way some people do their stuff .. fact is they managed to do what they wanted ....
this is my opinion blah blah blah ... i say what i want .... i just hope D¦ won t give up ..cause i m expecting more drama in this war
The Frenchy |
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