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MsEarth
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:05:08 -
[1] - Quote
So after 13 years or more, and the average player or null sec player who is totally self sufficient indefinitely, or corp or alliance, what is left to drive content in the game? At least for null sec
The null sec end game really used to be about taking/holding space, and being evicted was kind of a big thing (forget all the trolling for now will you). People had a 'home', they fought to defend it, and the home provided benefits. That was the reason to fight.
You've got alliances so rich they don't need a 'home'. Take PL for example, eventually why would anyone fight? I used to feel the fight was fun and the adrenaline would flow because there was risk of losing something. But take away the risk, because you have inexhaustible supplies of isk, then the unique feeling providing by large fleet battle is gone. It's like any old console game where you have X amount of lives, or like some single player game, where you can 'reload' your last save.
The only real reason anyone might need to hold space now is to build super capitals. Maybe ccp could fix it so that super capitals cannot be transferred from the corporation which built it. Forcing people who don't 'own' space, to own it and defend it, to maintain their super capital fleet.
But you even have some alliances who could lose several super cap fleets and keep on going.
I believe eve has evolved beyond its design, in that CCP has had to change things to make up for the ingenuity of players. Players just got too good and efficient at doing this.... like saying being able to move across the entire map with a capital fleet, just to hot drop another capital battle, or is it called dunk these days. SO they brought in jump fatigue. That and many other things they've had to adjust. But is it a long term fix or just bandaid, to keep on limping.
I've been reading a long time, catching up on the events of the last years. I particularly noted how after the battle where PL lost some huge amount of titans, Eve entered into a stagnated phase for two years? This is what I mean by the end game content simply not being there in the way it was originally because of the evolution of eve.
This is just introspection.....wondered what other people thought. |
Another Posting Alt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
142
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:10:10 -
[2] - Quote
I fight because it's fun. Having the resources to replace losses doesn't make it less fun. |
clamslayer
White Collar Cartel
60
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:29:50 -
[3] - Quote
I like holes |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
54
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:35:30 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think so. I think the meta evolved side by side with it. That gives 0.0 space more weight to it IMO. That's my own opinion on the meta. You don't need to build supers either. You don't need to own space. That's why there is trade. The eb and flow of this game as changed and will continue to change and players will continue to adapt. . Besides, the end game is what you make it. |
Daniel Ornulf
Grae Universe Enterprise EVIAN NATION
3
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:47:43 -
[5] - Quote
you can always make it your goal to ruin the game for others. |
Loucxious Leopold
Dredge Nation Solyaris Chtonium
10
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Posted - 2016.04.19 22:52:22 -
[6] - Quote
OP,
You are effectively immortal in this game. Ennui is inevitable if you let it take hold. Don't let it. |
TackyTachy1
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
43
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Posted - 2016.04.20 01:10:48 -
[7] - Quote
Fun, like love, has many different meanings. Twenty/thirty thousand people a day/night cram into Tranquility server and play the game in thousands of different ways, all getting something different out of the experience. It's chaos, and chaos is difficult to quantify and really, there is no need. No matter CCP's actions or lack thereof there will always be those who praise or condemn and the only measurement that counts is all those subscription renewals.
Designated Rep for 7 characters, two corps and one doofus multi-boxer.
Pathetic at PvP but handy with a spreadsheet; lost a bunch of ships but not one spreadsheet.
Credo: You don't WIN in this game; you SURVIVE in this game.
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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1093
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Posted - 2016.04.20 04:53:04 -
[8] - Quote
The real question is why asking with a alt? |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
211
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Posted - 2016.04.20 10:59:49 -
[9] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:The real question is why asking with a alt? An alt so fresh, doesn't even have a picture!
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1125
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Posted - 2016.04.20 11:24:41 -
[10] - Quote
New alt Lucas Kell?
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
217
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Posted - 2016.04.20 11:41:36 -
[11] - Quote
It won't have evolved beyond its design until a neural network is running the NPC AI.
Then pvp will pale in comparison to fighting rats. That could be fun. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
211
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Posted - 2016.04.20 11:59:44 -
[12] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Johan Civire wrote:The real question is why asking with a alt? An alt so fresh, doesn't even have a picture! Dedicated Forum Alt Level I is clearly still in the queue.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Salt Foambreaker
Greedy Pirates
33
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Posted - 2016.04.20 18:46:26 -
[13] - Quote
There is nothing in EVE a supernova or three, could not cure
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Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
102
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Posted - 2016.04.20 22:51:04 -
[14] - Quote
I think a case could be made that some players have been around so much longer than others...some groups especially, that the majority - and especially those coming along in their wake - have little to no chance to rise with any significance. There's just too much already in place to beat you back down.
I think also this creates a dual game...the ones on top don't really need to consider what the ones on the bottom must deal with. The ones on the bottom can only guess whats going on elsewhere.
As a result management winds up catering to one group over the other. The arrogance of the indulged is palpable.
I think there's a lot of negativity that comes from this. I think those involved agree, and can be found saying:
"What does it matter? It's only pixels."
Well...if it IS only pixels, those pixels seem to be enough to be very jealously GUARDED. Eh?
I think EVE became something beyond the originator's abilities to comprehend, but they're reluctant to admit this to themselves, or anyone else. It reached a point where the progress of development became shooting in the dark. Imagine recruiting an employee from the playerbase. An inmate is for sure running this asylum at this point.
Is this evolution? No. Eventuation. |
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
215
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Posted - 2016.04.20 23:16:36 -
[15] - Quote
Pretty sure EVE was made by design to be cutthroat like Ultima Online, but with blackjack and hookers. In space! Yeah!
In that aspect, it stayed true to its design! We're free to gank, scam and backstab eachother whenever we want, which makes things like loyalty and honesty all the more valuable. The game is all about us, those who play it and how we shape the game. And that whole thing about all actions matter and have consequences too. |
Herr Eismann
Lonetrek Blacksoul Federation The Methodical Alliance
6
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Posted - 2016.04.21 05:52:22 -
[16] - Quote
I think the intricacy and tweakability of the game's design will continue to prevent the complacency of stagnation. I'm no nullsec sage, but from what I've observed, CCP has done an adequate job combating total mastery with relatively-dynamic changes in game mechanics.
Lt. Col. Ret. Caldari State Protectorate
Enemy to Enemies of Selves
The Colonel's Journal
Bother me // Buy my book
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1341
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Posted - 2016.04.21 06:43:05 -
[17] - Quote
Personally I think you are being too dark, lets take the application of jump fatigue, the jump range nerf and the new sov system, and most recent of all the watch list change, followed on by the soon to appear citadels. This is tipping the game into a different direction causing adaptation, the death spiral of the Imperium is one such event, before that multiple predatory alliances decided not to hold space, most notably PL.
In terms of those change I would adjust one thing, put the jump range back up to what they were but apply a multiplier for jump fatigue on jumping more than 5 LY, this means that you can do supply runs to out of the way places, but cannot jump a rifter the other side of the galaxy.
You just have to look at Delve and Querious to see the impact, now add in Citadels which from what I last understood need to be scanned done (correct me if I am wrong here in normal space), which is great, people do not have to own sov, hence SMA in Outer Ring. And those citadels have a more causal gamer level of exposure which is even better.
So in effect the direction of the game has changed, yes we will still have big battles because human nature being what it is will cause people to band together, but we will start to see more and more localised combat. And that watch list change makes such a battle more likely, because people will use their supers and titans more because of surprise and we might end up with some fun escalations...
Of course PL or the Goons going back to their roots will come rolling in to blow up everything and move to another hapless target, so any leader has to plan for that possibility, its not hard. After a while are PL or the soon to be solo Goons going to come in and entosis everything getting no fights, I don't see that as remotely an appealing game play. Lets say some entity gets bigger in a region of space and starts to dominate, well guess what, he is now a target for the big boys, they might even get a fight out of it.
I am interested what they will do with Super and Titan production in terms of the new structures, personally I would allow them in low sec too, but that's my opinion, holding sov does have benefit, to be blunt running anoms is lucrative no matter what people say, its better than running level 4's by a long way no matter what those pushing a narrative keep saying...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically a themepark for gankers
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2836
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Posted - 2016.04.21 07:46:32 -
[18] - Quote
Have you noticed the war in the north? Look up "World War Bee".
But to respond to the broader point, yes, I think EVE evolved past the original design a LONG time ago. That is why the Seagull is pushing the roadmap, to extend the horizon and provide new challenges to players. Player-built staragates, new space...
I imagine there will be further changes to sov as well. The current conflict is great but driven mostly by dislike of goons and not indicative of a healthy ecosystem on the whole.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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MsEarth
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.04.21 14:13:09 -
[19] - Quote
If I didn't post with a forum alt then I wouldn't get funny comments like this
"Dedicated Forum Alt Level I is clearly still in the queue."
Secondly, if I posted with a character which is actually a member of any organization, then you have the people who just assume I am trolling or whatever other crap they call it or that I have some sort of agenda, other than to discuss the topic at hand, and see what other people think.
If I was certain my viewpoint was correct, I wouldn't discuss it at all, but the fact is people can mention things or viewpoints I haven't thought of, and I can re evaluate my opinion, and have hope for the future of the game. |
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
136
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Posted - 2016.04.21 15:38:34 -
[20] - Quote
Why do you assume holding space in null is 'end game'? |
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