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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
941
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Posted - 2016.04.28 04:15:36 -
[1] - Quote
I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together?
When the nerf to Awoxing was on the horizon, a desperate plea was made by the players and CCP had the good judgement to implement the toggle-switch, thus saving awoxing from total death.
Now, a nerf to freighter suicide ganking comes in the form of a 3-minute warp timer, and we need to try and reason with CCP to allow us more than just 3 measly minutes.
Just making it 5 minutes would make a world of difference.
I implore you, noble Devs, reconsider the practicality of recently proposed mechanics changes to bumping/warping.
Thank you.
[u]Highsec is owned by players now.[/u] Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory.-į**All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey **The Code.-įMining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com to learn more.
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Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
240
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Posted - 2016.04.28 04:37:18 -
[2] - Quote
Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about.
Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
444
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Posted - 2016.04.28 08:44:41 -
[3] - Quote
Tyyler DURden wrote:Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about.
Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious.
It's only a nerf to ransoming scum pirates , sorry you need to work a bit harder. Tyyler DURden is right Facetious is a word that fits well here.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
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Sasha Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
49
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:05:44 -
[4] - Quote
Ozzie Udan wrote:Tyyler DURden wrote:Perhaps you should have consulted with your peers before you started this thread. The majority of code affiliated opinions expressed in the previously locked thread indicated that this nerf to bumping wasn't much to be concerned about.
Of course there is the possibility that you're trying to be............. what's that word............. oh got it........... Facetious. It's only a nerf to ransoming scum pirates , sorry you need to work a bit harder. Tyyler DURden is right Facetious is a word that fits well here.
Getting donations from other haulers is a time honored tradition in highsec |
Sarah Flynt
170
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:19:37 -
[5] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
327
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:56:34 -
[6] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking?
What's that? You didn't?
That's what I thought
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1036
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:17:58 -
[7] - Quote
Um... You do know the toggle switch was partially caused by us making a stink about it proving it was more than just AWOXers who used the feature. Maybe try to find others who support this outside your community so CCP realises the impact is larger than they initily thought. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
171
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:44:27 -
[8] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong?
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
330
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:20:45 -
[9] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong? You didn't answer my question (even though I already know its answer)
Freighter ganking without bumpers is feasible BUT It's nigh impossible if the dude is at his keyboard, for afk freighters, your only window is on the out - gate. Bumping is a tool to give gankers a bigger ganking window than a minute for afk pilots. it also lets them choose who and when they will strike (usually every 15-16 minutes as we all know)
Look at it this way: If bumping only works for 3 minutes, freighter ganks will be as rare as me dying. If there are no more freighter ganks, you lot will have nothing else to do (other than crying and waiting for a fleet to appear out of nowhere)
No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire.
Think about it
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1036
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:34:15 -
[10] - Quote
So every 2.75 minutes you need a suicide tackler to long point the freighter. That breaks warp and should start the timer over. So 5 or 6 tackle alts, assuming you need the full 15 minute cool down because 2 freighters you need to gank arrived at the same time.
Or does a point stop but not reset the counter? If it doesn't reset the counter, should anti-gankers start figuring out the counter mechanics so they could offer pre-counter warm up (or whatever term they wish to call it)? |
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
330
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:50:10 -
[11] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:So every 2.75 minutes you need a suicide tackler to long point the freighter. That breaks warp and should start the timer over. So 5 or 6 tackle alts, assuming you need the full 15 minute cool down because 2 freighters you need to gank arrived at the same time.
Or does a point stop but not reset the counter? If it doesn't reset the counter, should anti-gankers start figuring out the counter mechanics so they could offer pre-counter warm up (or whatever term they wish to call it)? I don't think any details went out about the timer reset (if there's even one)
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1970
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:53:38 -
[12] - Quote
Thank you Ozzie for getting CCP to finally fix the bumping issue. You have the gratitude of all of empire! |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2440
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:20:31 -
[13] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:Galaxy Pig wrote:I realize that CCP aims to nerf highsec freighter ganking, but do they intend to end it all-together? I have great news for you: bumping isn't required at all for freighter ganking. Have you tried freighter ganking? What's that? You didn't? That's what I thought Are you saying I'm wrong? A criminal gang ganking a moving and/or attentive target is near impossible without bumping or another form of tackling. It's as hard as killing any other moving ship without tackle and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time. If no tackle at all was allowed, the rate of freighter explosions would drop precipitously.
However, there is no reason to believe that will be the case. Rationality, and expediency suggest that a suicide point on a target will prevent warp and reset the timer (as it currently does - well not the timer as that doesn't exist but reset the warp attempt part). I am sure CCP will want to mess with the warp code as little as possible and given they claim to be nerfing bumping, not ganking, I don't see why they would waste the effort to rewrite that part of it. Gankers will adapt to using a suicide point.
If that is wrong, well then we can have some rancorous debates whether 3 minutes of tackle is sufficient time to get a fleet from station to the target. My initial thought is that it is not, given that would limit a criminal fleet only the the current system, but such discussion is premature. I'm sure the point (no pun intended) will be clarified eventually.
Why Do They Gank?
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1972
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:23:17 -
[14] - Quote
Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
330
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:28:23 -
[15] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15246
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:30:04 -
[16] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time.
err faction police are not invincible.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1973
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:35:41 -
[17] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one
Serious question and I would like a serious answer. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2440
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:37:36 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time.
err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships.
Why Do They Gank?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15247
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:48:02 -
[19] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time.
err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1036
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer.
After committing a criminal act such as shooting at a Target that is not a legal target (as gankers do), you receive a 15 minute timer. During this time, Concord will show up and kill any ship you fly. This includes if you undock in a new ship or if you warp to a bowhead, wait out your 1 minute weapon timer, then board a new ship. So badically, after ganking (be it successful or not) you must wait 15 minutes.
Now if 2 freighters show up at the same time, one would have to be bumped for 15-20 minutes while the fleet kills the other ship them gets ready again. So really, the nerf is to having multiple freighters bumped up for ganking. |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2440
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Posted - 2016.04.28 16:04:35 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time.
err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point You did made me check though if it might possible to tank or fight your way the through faction police while waiting to ambush a target. My conclusion is that is not. Remote repping an outlaw does indeed make you go suspect (I couldn't remember if this was implemented but that is what the defunct Eve wiki says) and even if you did risk your logi and managed to stay alive they web and scram you so would likely be unable to get into range of your target.
I think at that point I would just give up on criminal ganking and tag up to neutral each time and use Tornados to gank a ship I couldn't tackle. It would be a shame to have to completely circumvent the CrimeWatch mechanics, but it would be the only feasible way left, which while doable, would increase the cost of the gank significantly.
Why Do They Gank?
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11814
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Posted - 2016.04.28 18:46:18 -
[22] - Quote
Galaxy Pig, where is your permit? You may issue them, but you do not have one
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Albrecht Patrouette
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
19
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Posted - 2016.04.28 20:07:28 -
[23] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote: No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire.
Think about it
How odd, since my cousin, Armand Patrouette, is a dedicated High Sec Militia pilot who does just that: pursues solo and small gang gankers and flies miner escort in those systems that those particular pilots frequent. So I can say with absolute certainty that your "I can say with certainty" is a major crock.
Yes, the Patrouette clan gets involved with protecting freighters, but that's not the sum total of our anti-piracy/anti-ganking activities. Should your doomsday prediction come true and freighter ganking cease to exist (seriously, do you really believe that?) we'll still have plently to do with patrolling HighSec. |
Dom Arkaral
Axios
332
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Posted - 2016.04.28 20:20:15 -
[24] - Quote
Albrecht Patrouette wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote: No freighter fleets = no AG Every nerf to ganking is also directly Nerf in anti-ganking (especially in this case) I can say with certainty that you guys won't follow solo gankers everywhere they go, hoping they undock to go shoot something.... you'll burn out faster than a house fire.
Think about it
How odd, since my cousin, Armand Patrouette, is a dedicated High Sec Militia pilot who does just that: pursues solo and small gang gankers and flies miner escort in those systems that those particular pilots frequent. So I can say with absolute certainty that your "I can say with certainty" is a major crock. Yes, the Patrouette clan gets involved with protecting freighters, but that's not the sum total of our anti-piracy/anti-ganking activities. Should your doomsday prediction come true and freighter ganking cease to exist (seriously, do you really believe that?) we'll still have plently to do with patrolling HighSec. There are also Patrouette gankers Your antipirate argument is invalid.
Can't wait to see how little time it'll take until you realize you can't save highsec by helping players who can't help themselves XD
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
332
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Posted - 2016.04.28 20:23:33 -
[25] - Quote
It's basic combat triage: Save the living, and leave the dying to die.
By living, I talk about players at their keyboard. And the dying... afk peasants and botters
It's a beautiful saying don't you think?
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7569
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Posted - 2016.04.28 23:50:02 -
[26] - Quote
The salt...
Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter?
Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7569
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Posted - 2016.04.28 23:57:48 -
[27] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Black Pedro wrote: and has the added complication that invincible NPCs spawn and blow you up if you wait in space for any length of time.
err faction police are not invincible. They are to typical gank ships. fair point
To be honest, I see of lot of chiding about industrials being "fit for production and no tank" as if that was some kind of sin around here.
So fitting a ship just "for one thing" might be pass+¬.
But I mission with tackle so don't go on what I say.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
333
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Posted - 2016.04.29 00:10:46 -
[28] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The salt...
Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter?
Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. do you even post on topic? or is always "hhnnng lloookkk aatttt thhheee salallltttt *hyperventilates*"
Reporting for off-topic gibberish.
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gł+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gł+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
244
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Posted - 2016.04.29 01:12:57 -
[29] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The salt...
Gee, where there codies in here saying that this would not matter?
Oh well. I wish this game was the only place I was right when it comes to human nature. do you even post on topic? or is always "hhnnng lloookkk aatttt thhheee salallltttt *hyperventilates*" Reporting for off-topic gibberish. Another classic pot and kettle moment from everyone's favorite forum snitch Dom Arkaral.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Faylee Freir
MALEVOLENT. Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
240
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Posted - 2016.04.29 03:51:25 -
[30] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Why can't the fleet just be waiting with the bumper and start the bump immediately?
Is this a serious question? I call troll on this one Serious question and I would like a serious answer. After committing a criminal act such as shooting at a Target that is not a legal target (as gankers do), you receive a 15 minute timer. During this time, Concord will show up and kill any ship you fly. This includes if you undock in a new ship or if you warp to a bowhead, wait out your 1 minute weapon timer, then board a new ship. So badically, after ganking (be it successful or not) you must wait 15 minutes. Now if 2 freighters show up at the same time, one would have to be bumped for 15-20 minutes while the fleet kills the other ship them gets ready again. So really, the nerf is to having multiple freighters bumped up for ganking. You got your mechanics wrong. In the past it was possible to go criminal, warp to a bowhead/orca, then board a new ship. You could do it while criminal and didnt have to wait out a weapons timer... Unfortunately CCP nerfed this last year so its no longer a working strategy.
HTFU
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