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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
239
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:15:02 -
[1] - Quote
First I want to say.. yes.. I got the bitter vet syndrome.
But as a feeble attempt I want to reach out to you guys in C&P. Especially to the fellow Highsec mercs and their employers.
As the leader of Devils I've been around for 5-6 years operating as a highsec merc. In this time I've seen the merc community in HS in a downward spiral, degenerating year after year. More Mercs have started to mass dec, it now seem like its more or less local thugs hanging around on street corners harassing people passing by. (yes, bad reference, but I'll get back to this one)
CCP has always spoken highly of content creators who make emergent gameplay in Eve, and the Merc community is one of them. It's a profession that in fact was promoted "Be a mercenary" by CCP in the past (just before the Crimewatch change I believe) but when released they brought us a broken bounty system and killrights. Then quickly changed the promo to "Be a bounty hunter". I would actually love to see CCP giving the mercenary community abit more tools instead of taking them away.
Devils have always had a relatively low wardec count and offered a more focused service. This has unfortunately burned out alot of guys over the years as old school hunting takes alot of effort. With the low wardec count my guys could not sit and wait in hubs for them to show up, They actually had to add all wartargets to watchlist, run locates, scout and then move to the targets location to get a kill. Even if it ment flying to the other side of highsec.
Now with the recent "buddylist" change CCP have removed what I think is a crucial tool to actually be able to play this emergent gameplay At the moment we are chasing ghosts... Running locates and sending alts to their location is not viable option anymore. (If you think it is.. I dont think you know how the current locator mechanics work.) Most of the time my guys are now playing with people who are not even online.
Now back to my point and the bad reference.
As an Employer would you go for something like this: "Yeah, I'll take your money and just hang in populated areas.. waiting for one of your targets to stumble into our turf" Or would you like your Merc say something in the lines of this: "Yeah, I'll take the contract, we will add them to watchlist and hunt when online, We will kill them when they least expect it"
I do have to say that I'm just focused on one of the services provided by merc community... but its a crucial one. I'm suprised that so few of us (mercs) are actually bitching about this change, It speaks volumes in my opinion.. But then again... As an employer looking for hub/pipe denial or structure bashing you will still have plenty options to choose from. Only thing is that its easy to avoid hubs and pipes.. and carebear in peace on the outskirts of empire even under multiple wardecs. Is this what the Merc commity in highsec have boiled down to? Turf wars and picking low hanging fruit?
With the current state of eve I cant with good conscience take on a contract except for structure bashing and there is more obvious choices then hiring a small merc group for that. I know this sound kinda like tears and rants from a bitter vet, maybe it is? As of this moment Devils are closing down the merc business until we are sure we actually can provide the service asked of us. We will still be around tho..
Good luck o/ |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
384
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:19:20 -
[2] - Quote
I think you nailed it bud.
Hi sec merc work was fun, full of content, now it's just a matter of who can entertain their troops the longest in hubs.
I feel your pain. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15227
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
agreed, we will not become hub humping degenerates .
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
262
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:31:25 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah, buddy list ****** everyone up. Such a stupid system.
But honestly, i have no idea how to spice up the Merc system. Bounties are utterly useless, but its hard to impliment a bounty system when anyone can put a bounty on anyone.
Any ideas?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15227
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:35:50 -
[5] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote: Any ideas?
Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
262
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:43:18 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Solonius Rex wrote: Any ideas?
Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that
Or better yet, locator agents tell you if they are online or not, and if not, when they were last online. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2855
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 10:49:26 -
[7] - Quote
With potentially several hundred WT's you really do need the locator to actually return a fail result for an offline player... otherwise you're back to wasting a couple million per hour chasing ghosts.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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gnshadowninja
Back Passage Explorer's Vendetta Mercenary Group
243
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:01:29 -
[8] - Quote
This thread has 100% full support from me as I too have been in the high sec merc worj for 5-6 years now. I used to love logging on and adding a bunch to then find them hiding away in their golem in the deep dark ends of space, this has been reduced to sending an alt through 100's of different systems hoping that i may bump into someone.
I think what didnt make it easier is that where they nerfed the watclist they didnt revamp the locates to suit. |
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
241
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 11:02:54 -
[9] - Quote
Sorry to see you guys go, seems you're one of the last merc groups out there with some integrity.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
628
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:32:27 -
[10] - Quote
This thread is pretty spot on. The reason you haven't seen much bitching from us, is because we've been AWOL with little intention of coming back. At this point, we pretty much only log on for our jihads or the occasional roams. We keep eyes on the game, hoping for a miracle to revitalize it, but it seems that things just continue to degrade. |
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Chandelin
Jovian Vengeance
59
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:00:09 -
[11] - Quote
I understand your point regarding the watch list.
but with multiple wars changing each week just keeping up with adding them did my nut in, especially having your alt add them too.
There are a few ways I hunt them down when im at war. ( this isnt being cocky but just what I do)
1. Most corporations have a central point or if there from null and low sec a central point of entry into high sec. most chars very rarely change there path even at war so that dude you saw in that blingy ship even at war will carry on the same way.
2. ZZkill and the other one when its working are a good source of previous places of where wt have been and possibly will be.
3. Main missions hubs IE the sister have always pulled chars in no matter if there at war or not. However the clever ones evac from there and go to a mission system in the middle of nowhere. catching them on the move if your tracking them prior to war helps.
I do understand that the offline online thing is a bit of a **** but at the end of the day mercs get paid to either do hub denial or hunt the feckers down and make them cry a lil. I dont mind flying alts around trying to find war targets as sometimes you might get more that you bargained for.
Typical point I decd a corp that was already at war flying a nightmare. However after setting them red my alt was flying around and found a mack pilot who was using a orca in a diff corp. So i dec the orca corp too. I kill the mack then go back there the next day and kill the orca then the nightmare.
I would rather be flying all around eve than sitting in a station banging out locators. i myself am in a small corp and in wars its easy for people to see me online, however not any more so it does benefit me alot
Its a shame to see you go though. Fly safe to all of your alliance in what ever you do next |
Dom Arkaral
Axios
327
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:11:53 -
[12] - Quote
Sad to see another solid group stop :/ CCP killed specialized hunters with the buddy list... It was imo the best kind of merc jobs to do, instead of sitting on the pipe 24/7 like all the bigger mercs do. (No offense, but there's no challenge whatsoever in camping perimeter or niarja)
I hope to see you guys around, and hopefully CCP makes a compromise (20 man and less in corp - access to watchlist, more than that - no access)
That would bring back the playstyle that got me into merc work, and I'd gladly go back to it (like many imo)
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Areen Sassel
90
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:23:38 -
[13] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:My idea is that there should be a bounty hunter license that needs to be paid, and when a bounty reaches a certain amount, any bounty hunter can hunt down and claim that amount.
This has the same issue as the pre-Retribution bounty system; claim it with an alt. (Unless you're keeping the percentage of kill value, in which case it's just as broken as the current system). |
jack1974
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
96
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 12:51:49 -
[14] - Quote
No worries friends, I plan on speaking to the 4(actually 5) CSMs we just got into office about high sec mechanics. Quite convenient right? I expect the path to be a long and hard one, especially with CCPs focus on citadels, but I do believe a mechanical change will happen.
I'd also like to note; deccing my alt corp does not grant you any brownie points for the discussions I plan on having. As the great super overlord spinmaster heil leader of the north Mittani would say, Welcome to the Meta. |
Valkin Mordirc
2040
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:54:19 -
[15] - Quote
Sad to see another corp folding up. But I can hardly say I didn't see it happening. You hit it pretty spot on.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
459
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:55:28 -
[16] - Quote
Sorry to see your services go guys, I entirely agree with your point, having done this for a long while myself and still having an alt in a major Hisec merc group. I hate camping. Hunting specific contracted targets is pretty much dead, because of Buddylist.
As for not being more vocal: A lot of us have been whne Buddylist was announced... And all we got was a deafening silence from CCP.
I think most got tired of shouting in the void.
I am disapointed.
Sneaky bastard.
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Valkin Mordirc
2041
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 13:13:11 -
[17] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote: As for not being more vocal: A lot of us have been when Buddylist was announced... And all we got was a deafening silence from CCP.
I think most got tired of shouting in the void.
I am disapointed.
I've pretty vocal about it very last couple years. Unfortunately it's just that. Yelling into a void.
We said that you're okay with watchlist changes, as long as locate agents are buffed to help, and it's deaf ears.
I've been saying that with every nerf to emergent gameplay, Highsec get staler and staler every patch.
I've been saying Wardec Mechanics need to change to allow for more diverse gameplay
Every time CCP ignores it and treks along with its pacification of Highsec and ignores the some of the people who brought them to the top.
In the current era, the guiding hand social club wouldn't have happened, Villains such as Kane and Monk, can no longer be there. These along with a numerous of other stories brought be to EVE. And the Removal of these things are taking me away from EVE.
I don't awox, I don't steal. I don't spy. But the possibility of it is incredibly intriguing and makes EVE a better place. However it's seems CCP would rather push profits and get more and more people in the name of . It feels like they no longer care.
Are wardeccers, Mercenaries and AWOXers a niche part of EVE? Yeah. But that doesn't mean we should be stomped out because B-Tac-R cause
Utterly and annoyingly, aggravating, frustrating, compoundly idiotic and has pretty much forced my entire group in an inactive state, or shoved off the null/low sec, because Highsec Content as dried up to the point it's becoming ash.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 13:13:40 -
[18] - Quote
Random thought, would it be worth the effort to offer services to faction warfare corps? For example, pay us X and we'll guard gates while your faction runs the plexes? Or pay us X and we'll Dec and hunt faction corps in their hi sec system your militia can't easily reach?
Or... Start including a form of espionage with the contract. Pay X, we'll get a rookie in group Y, use him to add corp members to their watch list and Dec in a week or two?
Obviously not perfect, but something you could maybe offer? |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
462
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 13:28:21 -
[19] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Random thought, would it be worth the effort to offer services to faction warfare corps? For example, pay us X and we'll guard gates while your faction runs the plexes? Mercs specialised on hunting won't do that. Plex runners won't do it either because taht would mean handing their income to the mercs.
Quote:Or pay us X and we'll Dec and hunt faction corps in their hi sec system your militia can't easily reach? These kind of things already happens, but often means gate camping and catch on their way to lowsec.
Quote:Or... Start including a form of espionage with the contract. Pay X, we'll get a rookie in group Y, use him to add corp members to their watch list and Dec in a week or two? Espionage is already quite rampant in FW, and Watchlist is dead, remember?
Deccing FW corps/alliances and camping their Hisec staging systems (such as they are, often trade hubs) is already done by most mercs that don't sit exclusively on trade hubs/pipes. We do get some content, though FW is mostly about frigates, so that is limited. But doable. But it is still camping, mostly.
Sneaky bastard.
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Rias Bane
7
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:15:46 -
[20] - Quote
This is a sad reality, I've done the Merc thing for 3 years now and have found myself increasingly camping because hunting has become so inefficient, there's no way to be certain of target quantity or quality short of clairvoyance.
I have always dabbled in all aspects of being a merc because some clients want structures hit others want movement disrupted but the work that is truly worth the name mercenary is the hunting, and in many cases that is what a client wants and expects but the buddy list change has lead to this atrophying.
And to see that this change has brought about the end of a respected merc group (at least as it is) is genuinely saddening.
I shall continue to hunt but what it means now is I spend more time on google than in game...not really why I subscribe :/
A sad day...sad sad day. |
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:20:26 -
[21] - Quote
As I recall, the buddy list can function as a watch list if the other person accepts the request. I have not tried this but it was how CCP said they would implement the change. In other words, if your friend agrees to you watchlisting them, you will see when they are online. This is why I suggested infiltration may be required now for normal hi sec merc work. Get an alt into the corp. Friendly up to the corpmates, claim you want to join their fleets when they get online and ask them to accept the buddy list invite. It may be harder, but may be doable. |
Saturn Sabezan
Slags
24
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:20:34 -
[22] - Quote
I have no words. You know I love you guys and I agree 100% as we've discussed.
<3
wat
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Dom Arkaral
Axios
330
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:25:06 -
[23] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As I recall, the buddy list can function as a watch list if the other person accepts the request. I have not tried this but it was how CCP said they would implement the change. In other words, if your friend agrees to you watchlisting them, you will see when they are online. This is why I suggested infiltration may be required now for normal hi sec merc work. Get an alt into the corp. Friendly up to the corpmates, claim you want to join their fleets when they get online and ask them to accept the buddy list invite. It may be harder, but may be doable. Not worth it... at all
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15246
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 14:49:20 -
[24] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As I recall, the buddy list can function as a watch list if the other person accepts the request. I have not tried this but it was how CCP said they would implement the change. In other words, if your friend agrees to you watchlisting them, you will see when they are online. This is why I suggested infiltration may be required now for normal hi sec merc work. Get an alt into the corp. Friendly up to the corpmates, claim you want to join their fleets when they get online and ask them to accept the buddy list invite. It may be harder, but may be doable. If i can get an alt into a corp i dont need to **** aroumd with the buddy list, i can just look in the corp member list and see who is online, regardless of this its still a ludicrously excessive amount of work to do on demand (which is what is required now), moreso than i can give to this game and i have tried , i do have a clean unaffiliated account but that should not be a requirement .
Normal highsec Mercenary work is now sitting in hubs and pipes and decking everything that moves within eye-shot.
We will not , Therefore we are no longer Mercenary's.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1972
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 15:07:25 -
[25] - Quote
It's interesting how the PL CSM reps are coming to the watch list rescue. Please keep in mind they are about hunting supers and this whole mess was created by whining super pilots. Sure they are on your side on this one, but only out of mutual convenience. They don't care about empire mercing, they care about dropping on supers. Use them, but don't expect any birthday cards down the road once they get what they want.
OP - if you or any of you lads are interested in wh stuff feel free to hunt down my public channel and we can talk about it. It's a different kind of hunting, but it's pretty fun and the closest thing to old school mercing in eve. |
DerpimusPrime Aihaken
Tears plixplox
13
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 17:43:09 -
[26] - Quote
CCP is going down a bad path. And thats not in favor for those who do indeed create their own content in a land on missions and mining.
Cya around! o/ |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
464
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 19:01:05 -
[27] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:It's interesting how the PL CSM reps are coming to the watch list rescue. Please keep in mind they are about hunting supers and this whole mess was created by whining super pilots. Sure they are on your side on this one, but only out of mutual convenience. They don't care about empire mercing, they care about dropping on supers. Use them, but don't expect any birthday cards down the road once they get what they want. What you wrote there is true.
Got to keep in mind though, the PL player that posted earlier in the thread is (was) the leader of a Hisec Merc alliance that used to be one of the most successfull, as far as hunting and fighting goes. One that also closed up due to drying up content.
Sneaky bastard.
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Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1479
|
Posted - 2016.04.28 19:02:20 -
[28] - Quote
Hub camping is utterly drooling out boredom, yes it can interesting at first, but when you begin this game based on the PvP I've experienced it becomes mind numbing crap. Watchlist added a fun factor that created a connection to a target, you actually wanted this person to log on, almost pushing the stalker in all of us to new heights. When he finally did, it either goes well, or its a TRAP!!! Either way it was a content booster for us.
Hub camping has turned into a almost not like killing arena, causing the same people to become drones to the undock. Exploding their egos and thus making highsec more or less boring. Yes my alliance has a ton of them, station hugging folks, but I'm not one of them.
Thanks CCP for taking away my whaling practice....
MERC WITH A MOUTH
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Snip King
The Reclaimators The Marmite Collective
16
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Posted - 2016.04.28 19:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thanks for all the nerfs CCP, you're doing a great job. Do our Carebear friends have anything else that they want it nerfed? Again, great job CCP, you guys are awesome......NOT!
Support Can flipping.
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Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
589
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 01:13:20 -
[30] - Quote
I agree with you Raz. Flying with Devils was a lot of fun and you guys are a bunch of cool people. The "buddy list" (it makes me cringe just refering to it) is totally stupid. I don't need a list of ppl who I'm cool with..I need a list of ppl who wanna shoot me and I them. The whole thing was changed over the complaints of super caps pilots. CCP didn't need to take the watchlist away, they needed to "fix" it along with locators. Locates should return the same results as when a target is in a wh (except say the target is not online or something)..also, if it were such a big deal to the super cap pilots...why didn't CCP just make the watchlist not work in ls/ns and leave hs alone. CCP has been having a total lack of insight on the game..especially lately. They add all this pointless stuff, yet don't fix old issues..and take away vital tools that made the game work. To me, CCP is making a grab for all the money they can before they drive the game into the ground. That's how I see it anyways.
I really hate to see Devils go. I doubt CCP will get a clue and change things for the better. It makes me wonder if they even play the game..or if they do, do they only change what benefits them or their friend? That's a conflict of interest. Eh...whatever. With the current downhill spiral I think the game is heading in...a lot of ppl will probably be quitting in the not so distant future..including myself. Mercs have been reduced to camping over hunting...I wonder if CCP even thought about this for a minute when they made the change...somehow, I doubt it.
Long live The Devils Warrior Alliance
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
364
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Posted - 2016.04.29 05:20:51 -
[31] - Quote
People should not fly what they can not afford to replace - supercaps included. Or YOLO down the street with your **** hanging out... don't care either way but why whine about dumb ****?
set.them.red was the best and worst thing.
Thank me later :D
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7570
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 06:12:41 -
[32] - Quote
This drastic change with the "buddy" lists was a want of nullsec players, not highsec. Let's not forget that.
AG made heavy use of these lists as well, probably as much as highsec mercs if not more.
Seeing a dozen known gankers log in (almost at....once? Hmmmm do they start all those clients with some automated input?) all in a burst created a lot of scrambles. I've seen freighters turn around seconds after my notice button lit up.
It does have some benefits being gone. I know of a few highsec dec types lose track of people who they decced NOT because someone paid them, but because they could fight back.
You see one of the "problems" of highsec decs is that the advice of "just fight them it's a PVP game hurrr durr" would only get you on a list - a buddy list for example - as "people who fight back and provide content" and therefore you will get decced over and over again. For no reason, and no increasing cost or any further consequences than that cost for the deccers. And I have seen the occasional post from leet highsec PVPers saying things like "LULZ I haven't seen them log back in they rekt back to WoW I'm so leet! LOL BOOMHEADSHOT!!!!" Now when "they" don't log in any more, well, who knows. Did they get greifed out of the game or not? It's better nobody knows.
And much of this is why? Because hub humping is boring so that one hapless player or two who follow the bad advice of fighting back are like the one man who gives a beggar a coin and suddenly he's swarmed by beggars.
Again, the good guys also made great use of it. It was also a great tool in nullsec NPC space too, especially in areas that get hot-dropped by (again, bored) players looking for kills. it was helpful knowing who the blops/cyno/cap operators in the region were so you could be more careful when they were online. That too is gone.
Oh well. There was once a time when "merc" didn't mean what it means today. "Merc" also meant hunting in lowsec without having to contend with security loss from attacking the intended target. "Merc" also meant "assassin" too when Awoxing was a thing.
There was also once a time when every other thread in C&P was NOT some merc advertisement. Maybe it's been played out? It's certainly getting redefined.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1368
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 07:09:11 -
[33] - Quote
Well first of all this is one of the best Merc entities in the game, so sorry to see them go.
But I ask you have you thought this through, because what you can do is go in the area where the target is with your locator toon, pretend to scan, link IWANTISK adverts, PC random people and the target in local, get that toon blocked by the target player.
Now when you do a private convo it will report that he is off line or otherwise not reachable when he is off line, but if he blocked you and is online you get told that he blocked you. A little bit more effort but certainly doable for people who are active hunters and have my respect, because you guys actually got a kill in hisec on someone who was not easy to catch.
Try it out, we did a brief test and it worked for the two toons we tested.
Doing it this way means it is not free intel, but you get intel for work and benefits targetting.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Catalytic morphisis
Common Ground
126
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Posted - 2016.04.29 10:02:15 -
[34] - Quote
Sad to see another Merc group Folding, But pretty spot on, Gone are the days when I could locate people, go set up traps and have some good fun
Actual Link free and scout free solo PvP'er
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
475
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Posted - 2016.04.29 14:22:05 -
[35] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Well first of all this is one of the best Merc entities in the game, so sorry to see them go.
But I ask you have you thought this through, because what you can do is go in the area where the target is with your locator toon, pretend to scan, link IWANTISK adverts, PC random people and the target in local, get that toon blocked by the target player.
Now when you do a private convo it will report that he is off line or otherwise not reachable when he is off line, but if he blocked you and is online you get told that he blocked you. A little bit more effort but certainly doable for people who are active hunters and have my respect, because you guys actually got a kill in hisec on someone who was not easy to catch. I agree that this could work, thanks.
However, unless you are looking for only a handful of players (all of which won't block you) you are a looking at a LOT more than a 'little bit' of time, and don't forget, since Watchlist is gone you don't know when they are online in the first place (which admiteddly, can be worked around, but still a lot of time) and second, if they are half smart, and you follow them with Local spamming alts, you are going to burn your scouts.
Also, you will usually track and hunt targets that are Contracted first and foremost, and that usually mean you don't have the time to do all that preliminary scouting and spam/blocking stuff. The client wants results soon, not in 2 weeks time.
Sneaky bastard.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15268
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 14:48:38 -
[36] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Well first of all this is one of the best Merc entities in the game, so sorry to see them go.
But I ask you have you thought this through, because what you can do is go in the area where the target is with your locator toon, pretend to scan, link IWANTISK adverts, PC random people and the target in local, get that toon blocked by the target player.
Now when you do a private convo it will report that he is off line or otherwise not reachable when he is off line, but if he blocked you and is online you get told that he blocked you. A little bit more effort but certainly doable for people who are active hunters and have my respect, because you guys actually got a kill in hisec on someone who was not easy to catch. I agree that this could work, thanks. However, unless you are looking for only a handful of players (all of which won't block you) you are a looking at a LOT more than a 'little bit' of time, and don't forget, since Watchlist is gone you don't know when they are online in the first place (which admiteddly, can be worked around, but still a lot of time) and second, if they are half smart, and you follow them with Local spamming alts, you are going to burn your scouts. Also, you will usually track and hunt targets that are Contracted first and foremost, and that usually mean you don't have the time to do all that preliminary scouting and spam/blocking stuff. The client wants results soon, not in 2 weeks time. thats exactly why infiltration is in no way practical either, infiltration takes time and more than a little effort for a bloodthirsty savage like any of us to get into character, its also largly opportunistic so you have to either be a ****ing scary good social engineer or Damn lucky to offer it as a service or use it reliably as an intell tool on a target in empire dictated to you on short notice. this is what i meant by it being an inordinate amount of effort to do "on demand" , its one thing to get an alt in a corp , "that corp, like right now" though is a different matter and entirely more time and nuanced effort (extra acc with a compleatly clean and unaffiliated api) than i can muster and i always loved the idea of doing this.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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gnshadowninja
Back Passage Explorer's Vendetta Mercenary Group
246
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 15:02:38 -
[37] - Quote
The main issue ai have is that theres not enough support across all the mercenaries, i mean were all pretty laid back guys/gals that do this type of work so no one really posts on C&P unless its a good troll.
I believe all of us should come together as a collective and put our differences aside to support a single goal to improve our gameplay, We have been let on the side lines for too long with more and more nerfs making it harder to do our role.
Only positive thing ive seen come to high sec mercs is the hics point, what does that matter when you cant even catch a mwd cloaky battleship.
Idea : When speaking about this issue on vendetta TS last night someone suggested that they could just add a role bonus to supers that they will not show as online. We understand this can mean cyno toons will appear online but there should be some way to hunt supers.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1373
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 15:56:51 -
[38] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Well first of all this is one of the best Merc entities in the game, so sorry to see them go.
But I ask you have you thought this through, because what you can do is go in the area where the target is with your locator toon, pretend to scan, link IWANTISK adverts, PC random people and the target in local, get that toon blocked by the target player.
Now when you do a private convo it will report that he is off line or otherwise not reachable when he is off line, but if he blocked you and is online you get told that he blocked you. A little bit more effort but certainly doable for people who are active hunters and have my respect, because you guys actually got a kill in hisec on someone who was not easy to catch. I agree that this could work, thanks. However, unless you are looking for only a handful of players (all of which won't block you) you are a looking at a LOT more than a 'little bit' of time, and don't forget, since Watchlist is gone you don't know when they are online in the first place (which admiteddly, can be worked around, but still a lot of time) and second, if they are half smart, and you follow them with Local spamming alts, you are going to burn your scouts. Also, you will usually track and hunt targets that are Contracted first and foremost, and that usually mean you don't have the time to do all that preliminary scouting and spam/blocking stuff. The client wants results soon, not in 2 weeks time. thats exactly why infiltration is in no way practical either, infiltration takes time and more than a little effort for a bloodthirsty savage like any of us to get into character, its also largly opportunistic so you have to either be a ****ing scary good social engineer or Damn lucky to offer it as a service or use it reliably as an intell tool on a target in empire dictated to you on short notice. this is what i meant by it being an inordinate amount of effort to do "on demand" , its one thing to get an alt in a corp , " that corp, like right now" though is a different matter and entirely more time and nuanced effort (extra acc with a compleatly clean and unaffiliated api) than i can muster and i always loved the idea of doing this.
Starrakatt, I agree its more than a little bit of time depending on how many you are after, but its a method that at least gives you the ability to know if someone is online. The other part of hunting someone is watching them and getting a feel for their habits especially if you war dec them with a test corp. Again this depends on client understanding and expectations, the information has changed, there is no watch list, I for one would not expect you to do it quickly and may require a lead in time before you go live.
Ralph King-Griffin, yeah I understand that, on demand it is of course very difficult but as the game has changed clients expectations has to change, the game had become too wham bang at times IMO, for example I am always miffed at giving NPC kills on the map, I think taht is easy intel. Perhaps you or others can develop a sort of second tier groups of information mercs that will do this method of getting intel on targets for you or do it as part of your hunt, client expectation has to change because of this.
I understand how you feel because my game play has been afffected by multiple nerfs and buffs to the enemy so to speak, sometimes the challenge reaches a point of head butting a brick wall and that is the time to stop, which I have done with some of my gameplay. Anyway good luck in what you intend to do.
EDIT: It may take a little time, longer than I expected due to the lack of a market module in Mediums, but your targets may become easier to indentify and will have something in value in space. This means that they will also likely grow into bigger groups to be able to defend the Citadel or other structure and be geographically compact. As I said these changes may take time but I would think once we see it then your game play will be improved.
Perhaps you could take a break or go do something else but keep an eye on how hisec develops, I hope it does not stay as it is.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7572
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 16:59:42 -
[39] - Quote
"info mercs"
There are "secret squirrel" types who might just love that sort of stuff. Maybe merc corps might take on players like that.
Could not the market also be a means of tracking through buy orders and open contracts? It might be an element to the game too when merc work and market activity get crossed.
What I see on the surface is a lot of "hub humping" which strikes me a boring. Maybe CCP saw it like that too and felt that mercs would have to take extra measures? But if there is resistance to that, then things will change. The future may show us a new kind of merc group that is lopsided towards secret squirrels (SS) who will use every last in-game and meta tool they can find. Is that not more interesting than sitting on a gate all day? Will future merc groups have more SS than PVPers?
Back in the day I used to do a lot of nullsec exploration alone and used wormholes to get in and out. in order to survive without intel channels I had to pick everything from Dotlan to looking up who owned the website/blog of the occupying corp. In a wormhole with no local, it got even more challenging. But I was always able to find out who "owned" the hole and what their threat footprint was, and predict what I would find in nullsec when I got there depending on where I ended up. I could always find out who, what, when, how good they were, and when they slept, and never got caught except one time (and survived that encounter). Every expedition brought back a hold of fat nullsec exploration loot.
It can be done, but it'll take more work. Perhaps the existing merc groups can seek out players who like to do that stuff. Some people like to "hunt" like that.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1993
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 17:38:23 -
[40] - Quote
The OPs point is that the current mechanics lend more to station/pipe camping and less to providing a service via contract. Messing with the watch list moved the balance too far in the wrong direction and he and his corp cashed out. Between assists and the low fees for multiple decs the actual contract part of mercing is as valueless as any war dec that is currently put into play.
Taking away the ability to logically hunt down online targets has left real mercs that move to fulfill contracts with blindly warping around eve hoping to luck into something. Not what I would categorize as fun or emergent gameplay.
The game doesn't need a group of info mercs to step up, it needs an intelligent way to hunt down other players with the intent to blow them up. There just isn't a reasonable option to hunt a guy down right now.
I'm not sure what change is next (concerning waging empire wars) but based on the last 5 years of change - I'm not optimistic.
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Xorphix
Ex Presidents. Complaints Department
189
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Posted - 2016.04.29 17:41:50 -
[41] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:"info mercs"
There are "secret squirrel" types who might just love that sort of stuff. Maybe merc corps might take on players like that.
Could not the market also be a means of tracking through buy orders and open contracts? It might be an element to the game too when merc work and market activity get crossed.
What I see on the surface is a lot of "hub humping" which strikes me a boring. Maybe CCP saw it like that too and felt that mercs would have to take extra measures? But if there is resistance to that, then things will change. The future may show us a new kind of merc group that is lopsided towards secret squirrels (SS) who will use every last in-game and meta tool they can find. Is that not more interesting than sitting on a gate all day? Will future merc groups have more SS than PVPers?
Back in the day I used to do a lot of nullsec exploration alone and used wormholes to get in and out. in order to survive without intel channels I had to pick everything from Dotlan to looking up who owned the website/blog of the occupying corp. In a wormhole with no local, it got even more challenging. But I was always able to find out who "owned" the hole and what their threat footprint was, and predict what I would find in nullsec when I got there depending on where I ended up. I could always find out who, what, when, how good they were, and when they slept, and never got caught except one time (and survived that encounter). Every expedition brought back a hold of fat nullsec exploration loot.
It can be done, but it'll take more work. Perhaps the existing merc groups can seek out players who like to do that stuff. Some people like to "hunt" like that.
(Assuming I read your post correctly), I think the point is that the bulk of members from current merc organisations actively hunt and kill (for the most part) contractual war targets. It is the predominant playstyle which draws the most interest (activity) to the game. You'll find far less interest in players wanting to be "secret squirrels" over actual PvPers. |
gnshadowninja
Back Passage Explorer's Vendetta Mercenary Group
247
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 17:47:16 -
[42] - Quote
I think what your missing is that for us mercs to have to go to the extent of using another account to find targets and do all this contract/convoing rubbish is a giant pain in the ass and not worth anyones time.
Even with the contact list it was still a pain to find targets and the locates take time to come back, meaning they could of moved 10+ jumps in any direction before you even get to there system.
I can see people are just trying to offer a solution but none of these are remotely acceptable or logical when you could have a corp with 400+ targets in and no one to differ which ones are active toons, which ones are active in your timezone, when they will log in, where they will login, if they even play anymore.
Short Point
I don't want to spend 10 hours+ to find one contracted war target to enable me to PVP, if he stays in the same place and doesn't log off before that time. I don't want to have to use spies or alts everytime we get a new contract. |
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
476
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 18:31:23 -
[43] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:The OPs point is that the current mechanics lend more to station/pipe camping and less to providing a service via contract. Messing with the watch list moved the balance too far in the wrong direction and he and his corp cashed out. Between assists and the low fees for multiple decs the actual contract part of mercing is as valueless as any war dec that is currently put into play.
Taking away the ability to logically hunt down online targets has left real mercs that move to fulfill contracts with blindly warping around eve hoping to luck into something. Not what I would categorize as fun or emergent gameplay.
The game doesn't need a group of info mercs to step up, it needs an intelligent way to hunt down other players with the intent to blow them up. There just isn't a reasonable option to hunt a guy down right now.
I'm not sure what change is next (concerning waging empire wars) but based on the last 5 years of change - I'm not optimistic.
To the point, yes.
My hope is that the Citadels will revitalize Contracted Wardecs, up to a point. I guess even 'fun' random Wardecs can be had that way, as individuals/groups start to probe down 'hidden' Citadels in safespot and declare content Wars.
The bad of the Citadel Wardec concept is that Larges and X-Larges will be extremely hard to nigh-impossible to do for small/medium sized Merc groups, such as Devils, considering the amount of DPS/Logistic taht will be needed to deal with those.
Hisec Keepstars? Darn, where are the Dreads when we need them?
Maybe that will lead to Hisec large Mercenary coalitions (or alliances merging) to deal with those, though to be fair, considering the ego of many of a CEO, I doubt this will happen on any large scale.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1376
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 19:36:42 -
[44] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:The OPs point is that the current mechanics lend more to station/pipe camping and less to providing a service via contract. Messing with the watch list moved the balance too far in the wrong direction and he and his corp cashed out. Between assists and the low fees for multiple decs the actual contract part of mercing is as valueless as any war dec that is currently put into play.
Taking away the ability to logically hunt down online targets has left real mercs that move to fulfill contracts with blindly warping around eve hoping to luck into something. Not what I would categorize as fun or emergent gameplay.
The game doesn't need a group of info mercs to step up, it needs an intelligent way to hunt down other players with the intent to blow them up. There just isn't a reasonable option to hunt a guy down right now.
I'm not sure what change is next (concerning waging empire wars) but based on the last 5 years of change - I'm not optimistic.
What I like about this alliance is that they are good and do hunt. But like so many you and I mean you not them are soft and flabby with the easy watch list, you were spoilt, intel was handed to you free on the plate, just like local in some ways, just like intel on NPC kills, or people in system.
I explained how they could find out if their target was online, it takes a bit of effort but it works, if you due to your comment are unable to do that and prefer to warp around blindly hoping to bump into a war target then more fool you. If you are not able to do this then what are you, a watch list hugger. You gave up and went into a WH, thats fine, you adapted one way.
I believe that the Devils Warriors Alliance have it in them to do this, because they are good players, otherwise I would not have suggested this approach, they realised the issue with what I suggested but that is because they are serious mercs they have to educate their customers on what it means and develop the players to do this including their own approach, when you have played the same way for a long time often its difficult to push yourself, there is so much I cannot be bothered to do and I admit it.
Is this a game for thoughtful players or people who want easy kills handed to them on a plate, because they do not camp Hubs or pipes in the main I think they are thoughtful. Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and say either, nope I will not do this and do something else or find a way. Which is what I told you in terms of the Medium Citadel's not having a market, I said what I thought and moved on and changed my direction.
I hate throwing Eve one liners in but I have been told quite often to adapt or die, these guys can adapt I know it.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1376
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 19:45:16 -
[45] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:The OPs point is that the current mechanics lend more to station/pipe camping and less to providing a service via contract. Messing with the watch list moved the balance too far in the wrong direction and he and his corp cashed out. Between assists and the low fees for multiple decs the actual contract part of mercing is as valueless as any war dec that is currently put into play.
Taking away the ability to logically hunt down online targets has left real mercs that move to fulfill contracts with blindly warping around eve hoping to luck into something. Not what I would categorize as fun or emergent gameplay.
The game doesn't need a group of info mercs to step up, it needs an intelligent way to hunt down other players with the intent to blow them up. There just isn't a reasonable option to hunt a guy down right now.
I'm not sure what change is next (concerning waging empire wars) but based on the last 5 years of change - I'm not optimistic.
To the point, yes. My hope is that the Citadels will revitalize Contracted Wardecs, up to a point. I guess even ' fun' random Wardecs can be had that way, as individuals/groups start to probe down ' hidden' Citadels in safespot and declare content Wars. The bad of the Citadel Wardec concept is that Larges and X-Larges will be extremely hard to nigh-impossible to do for small/medium sized Merc groups, such as Devils, considering the amount of DPS/Logistic taht will be needed to deal with those. Hisec Keepstars? Darn, where are the Dreads when we need them? Maybe that will lead to Hisec large Mercenary coalitions (or alliances merging) to deal with those, though to be fair, considering the ego of many of a CEO, I doubt this will happen on any large scale.
I am hoping that there will be entities in hisec that can grow to take you on, to be honest many of them will need the Citadel to balance off against your skills and your doctrines.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
479
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 20:27:07 -
[46] - Quote
Xorphix wrote:...I think the point is that the bulk of members from current merc organisations actively hunt and kill (for the most part) contractual war targets. It is the predominant playstyle which draws the most interest (activity) to the game. You'll find far less interest in players wanting to be "secret squirrels" over actual PvPers. I will not be a squirrel, I'd be bored out of the game.
I always been a Hisec hunter (when I do Hisec), and there never was such a thing as 'free intel', even with the watch list. Believe me: When you spend HOURS adding WT to Watchlist, flying around, scouting and running Locators on people that you know that are actually online and only get a few kills, if at all, for your work, that is not 'free'.
That supposedly 'free intel' is a fallacy. Local and numbers associated to Starmap or DOTLAN ARE much more free than WL ever was.
Time is one of the most valuable ressource any player have in any game. When time is wasted (for whatever reason) the player is losing.
The Watchlist removal made hunting a huge expense of time, for very little reward.
I said it before, weeks ago: Watchlist removal won't negatively, or positively affect that much the large Nulsec Capital ship users that are willing to use them.
Why?
Because being large groups, they have the ressources to Locate clusters of red Capital pilots (even if offline) and know where they stage, making it easy to have a resident cloaky scout keeping watch for when they log in. Numbers count.
The only player groups that are adversely affected by Buddylist are small and medium groups through Hisec, Lowsec and Nulsec. And WH I guess.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7575
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 21:03:09 -
[47] - Quote
Xorphix wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:"info mercs"
There are "secret squirrel" types who might just love that sort of stuff. Maybe merc corps might take on players like that.
Could not the market also be a means of tracking through buy orders and open contracts? It might be an element to the game too when merc work and market activity get crossed.
What I see on the surface is a lot of "hub humping" which strikes me a boring. Maybe CCP saw it like that too and felt that mercs would have to take extra measures? But if there is resistance to that, then things will change. The future may show us a new kind of merc group that is lopsided towards secret squirrels (SS) who will use every last in-game and meta tool they can find. Is that not more interesting than sitting on a gate all day? Will future merc groups have more SS than PVPers?
Back in the day I used to do a lot of nullsec exploration alone and used wormholes to get in and out. in order to survive without intel channels I had to pick everything from Dotlan to looking up who owned the website/blog of the occupying corp. In a wormhole with no local, it got even more challenging. But I was always able to find out who "owned" the hole and what their threat footprint was, and predict what I would find in nullsec when I got there depending on where I ended up. I could always find out who, what, when, how good they were, and when they slept, and never got caught except one time (and survived that encounter). Every expedition brought back a hold of fat nullsec exploration loot.
It can be done, but it'll take more work. Perhaps the existing merc groups can seek out players who like to do that stuff. Some people like to "hunt" like that.
Assuming I read your post correctly), I think the point is that the bulk of members from current merc organisations actively hunt and kill (for the most part) contractual war targets. It is the predominant playstyle which draws the most interest (activity) to the game. You'll find far less interest in players wanting to be "secret squirrels" over actual PvPers.
But do such players exist and if so, can they be found and recruited?
Or maybe that becomes a new "service industry" in Eve, "tracing"? Maybe CCP will go that way, like special skills for schmoozing locator agents and such...
(I'm now remembering the show "Rockford Files" where... OMG some of them I saw when they first aired prime time! I'm f**king old!)
The thing is, there is a way, and if there are players who can drill rocks all day, and players who can camp a gate all day (two activities that would have normal people cutting themselves to see if they are still alive IMO) then there must be players who would enjoy the sleuth work of tracking people down in the game.
I have done it. And Dracvlad has done it. Drac once managed to get one of his targets IN SPACE on a safe spot using his private eye skills combined with some scanner derring do
This could be the same problem as we saw with nullsec corps before the Age of the Blue Donut: people not entirely versed in PVP wanting to get out of nullsec but met with "Stats or GTFO!". So you ended up with organizations depending 100 percent on ratting and no production capabilities of their own. Sure the mercs want the pew, but they should enlist the aid of those who cannot, or are not so good at it, or have a better time doing something more challenging. (que the usual "KBs are the only measure of success" complaint.... )
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
482
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 21:38:53 -
[48] - Quote
'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'
That's so going to work.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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jack1974
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
100
|
Posted - 2016.04.29 22:55:32 -
[49] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work.
To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy.
Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it?
@Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7579
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 00:07:58 -
[50] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work. To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy. Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it? @Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons.
I would like to add, a common thing we hear about the armed forces of the world are things like "for every soldier in the field there are 3, 4, 6, etc. people in logistics".
(Note: Every time I hear that, the number is different, so I can't say how many people for each soldier on the front line. I can say that the US Air Force takes around 40 people to put one fighter jet up and that's NOT including the supply and logistic chain - and we send the guy with the college degree into the war zone )
As for the concept "not going down well". Well, who knows. Has it been tried before? It's certainly a new challenge that highsec groups will have to meet or they will be following the OPs alliance eventually, or blanket deccing and gate camping until boredom drives them off.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
483
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 01:05:36 -
[51] - Quote
You both may well be right, I do not know.
It may be pessimism, or call it realism if you will, but it seems to me taht most (if not all) Hisec mercs entities tend to be very laid back, and lets face it, many are Lowsec or Nulsec alts (or burned out mains) that are there to enjoy laid back and no politically involved PVP. So I don't think it is going to happen on any large scale.
Small scale of what you describe is likely already happening, I heard of some from time to time. Myself, I loathe the infiltration and gain of confidence only-to-be-betrayed that spying involve. I am a grunt, I like commando action, used to do some logistics in Nul, got burned out. Now I just want to apreciate the simple joys.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
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Xorphix
Ex Presidents. Complaints Department
191
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 03:47:08 -
[52] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work. To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy. Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it? @Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons.
Switching a gameplay style to predominantly spy networks instead of PvPing though is where I see the obvious problem, and the rate at which those spy networks will have to generate the content for the PvPers. |
Jagd Wilde
ffs i gave up on names
4
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 04:01:04 -
[53] - Quote
I have heard that if one wants quick, fast, and plentiful PvP , that one only needs to leave hisec. No need to spend hours hunting one hisec carebear.
|
Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
487
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 04:23:05 -
[54] - Quote
Jagd Wilde wrote:I have heard that if one wants quick, fast, and plentiful PvP , that one only needs to leave hisec. No need to spend hours hunting one hisec carebear. This is my main, FETID is a Lowsec entity.
That being said: All styles of gameplay are valable: Hisec, Lowsec, Nulsec, WH. Some people prefer Hisec. Who are you to judge what one prefers?
Post with your main or GTFO.
Sneaky bastard.
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join Run and Gun
|
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 04:23:44 -
[55] - Quote
I do hope mercs find a new place to be in EvE, I don't think many are in a very good place right now, it was sad when we lost low sec pirates please don't let us lose you
May be all who support this type of work need to write to ccp asking them to look at this, if someone writes a short letter and we all send it in, not a rant just a request for help, sent hundreds of times be each member and supporter of eve mercs.
In the mean time I hope you find other ways to have fun out of eve, like someone said eve is changing who knows what you may find around the next corner,
One more point and this is my own view, Merc's are some of the best small scale pvpers in the game by far, in a pvp game too, you should be top of the food chain, don't you think this hub camping life style is a bit **** with endless war dec'ing just for kills
Please don't leave there must be a way, sandbox remember.
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7582
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 05:24:58 -
[56] - Quote
Xorphix wrote:jack1974 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work. To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy. Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it? @Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons. Switching a gameplay style to predominantly spy networks instead of PvPing though is where I see the obvious problem, and the rate at which those spy networks will have to generate the content for the PvPers.
Yes this is something I can't speak for the ramifications of either.
From thinking about this thread earlier I started doing some research on past foes to check my tracking skills and discovered that another corp that a friend is in may have a spy in it. A sloppy spy actually. That was too easy.
But I can see the point.
Welp, if anybody is up for some kind of petition to save merc work I'll sign onto it. It would not have been a bad thing to see scrub hub-humper groups fall to the wayside, but it would appear that a good group is jeopardized. Malcanis' law is in effect.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
149
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 07:37:10 -
[57] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work. To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy. Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it? @Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons. Spais are very PvP.
Spai vs group of players. Spai gets in and procures useful information, spai wins. Spai gets caught before getting anything useful, spai loses. A good spai will shoot and die with the rest of the group being infiltrated because that's just how spais work. It just takes a certain type of psycho to do it. Or someone really bored with playing soldier.
A signature :o
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1399
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 08:08:00 -
[58] - Quote
jack1974 wrote:Starrakatt wrote:'We are recruiting social, person's people, more specifically: Scammers, awoxers, backstabbers and other corp thief types, within that mindset please.
We don't want players that actually enjoy being in space and shooting other pilots, shooting red crosses or doing exploration in a spaceship game - We want YOU, a social PVPer, whose achievement won't ever be publicly aknowledged, because, you know, you're a SPAI.'That's so going to work. To be honest, a few major entities in this game do departmentalize their leadership structure to account for non-pvp ventures such as funding spy networks. I know a few of you won't like these next few lines but I do believe high-sec mercs can learn a lot from the complicated yet well organized entities of low/null. Yes every group needs it soldiers but in order to keep them well practiced they need content. I'm a fan of leadership and I won't lie to you all; there are groups in null/low paying players billions of isk a month to simply probe down wormholes, map moons for entire constellations, set up alliance infrastructure, and most importantly spy. Whats the point of having a military if you don't have a reason to use it? @Herzog Wolfhammer- Yes, I keep track of officer mods for reasons.
This post is what I was getting at, thanks for posting.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Valkin Mordirc
2044
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 12:50:09 -
[59] - Quote
Also in 2015 we had 7 or 8 active Major Wardeccing alliances, that I actively kept track of, along with my group plus some smaller ones I kept track off.
Absoslut, BAW, Devils, Forsaken, Marmite, Public-Enemy, POH, PIRAT, Stratagem along with my group Abysmal, multiple smaller corps like mine that existed.
Absoslut and Forsaken Folded. Stratagem was brief but deserves to be counted and switch direction near the end of the year.
During the end of the year What Squad and Logitech showed.
At the start of 2016, You Had Arche, BAW, Devils, Complaints, Logitech, Marmite, Public, and PIRAT, What Squad, and Vendetta.
Complaints took most of Forsakens members, And is ran by a old Marmite/Forsaken Leadership. Vendetta absorbed POH members with POH folded early in the year, along with some of Logitech. Arche, is basically old Absoslut members. What Squad died and went into several different area's, Marmite and into low/null Devils are now inactive BAW is basically inactive. Abysmal went inactive right when the watch list changed
Leaving you with basically: Arche, Complaints, Marmite, Public, PIRAT and Vendetta.
With no real small groups to really even be aware about asides from Xris's group who seem to be focusing lowsec more so anyways. That I am aware of anyways.
It went from groups folding and reappearing, with lotsa content and booms throughout the 1 and a half years. To No new groups and the old veterans milling about. And multiple long staying Highsec Mecs becoming inactive or moving to Null/Low. Because one very dependant feature being changed due to Null Kiddies, without thought to other aspects of EVE.
=\
I'm just really annoyed by it and was thinking it over yesterday and wanted to share. My opinions are obviously heavily biased, but I feel that it's hard not to argue that a large amount of Highsec is become more and more industrialized to create an environment that forces players down a singular chain of, Highsec > Lowsec > Nullsec because CCP wants to further increase it profit margins and is thinking more like a Publisher then Developer.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Xorphix
Ex Presidents. Complaints Department
192
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 15:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Well said words.
Word. |
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2658
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 22:31:28 -
[61] - Quote
Feyd: I imagine that right now, you're feeling a bit like Alice. Hmm? Tumbling down the rabbit hole? Raz: You could say that. Feyd: I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that's not far from the truth. Do you believe in CCP, Raz? Raz: No. Feyd: Why not? Raz: Because I don't like the idea that ree-ree's are in control of my gaming experiences. Feyd: I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire EvE life, that there's something wrong with New Eden. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about? Raz: Bitter-vetdom? Feyd: Do you want to know what it is? Raz: Yes. Feyd: Bitter-vetdom is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very thread. You can see it when you undock or when you jump your Proteus. You can feel it when you pvp... when you pve... when you pay your wardec fees. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Raz: What truth? Feyd: That CCP doesn't love you Raz. Like everyone else you were born into a hisec prison. Into a repetitive and ultimately pointless ISK and skill-point grinding prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind. Raz: Dude, let me the **** out. Feyd: You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in Romi and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Would you like to know more?
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1728
|
Posted - 2016.04.30 22:57:28 -
[62] - Quote
Agent Fozzie: Why hello there, Mr. Razpataz.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 12:44:02 -
[63] - Quote
First of all I have to say thanks for all the kind words. I really thought the trolls would try to tackle me at the first page.
Love you guys! GÖÑ
As for all the helpfull suggestions.. I have to say we have already tried most ways to circumvent the buddylist change for 2 months now. Some work to a degree in smaller scale, others are just to much work. Keep in mind I've now tried to hold on to the old school hunting for 6 years and burned out alot of my guys just by doing that. The ones who had no patience or effort for it left to other mass decing operations (just to have easier kills) or burned out and went to a 0.0 retirement home.. waiting for pings.
I already have what I think is the most dedicated and patient members in eve, and some secret squirrels. What makes you think making it even harder would make people not pick the low hanging fruit instead? |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
1565
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 12:58:59 -
[64] - Quote
I agree that the watchlist changes are stupid.
But: There is lots of PvP in both Low and Null Sec.
No need to fold your corp when there are many places to have fun in Eve blowing stuff up.
If you leave high sec you get better content.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
|
Jagd Wilde
ffs i gave up on names
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 13:51:49 -
[65] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Jagd Wilde wrote:I have heard that if one wants quick, fast, and plentiful PvP , that one only needs to leave hisec. No need to spend hours hunting one hisec carebear. This is my main, FETID is a Lowsec entity. That being said: All styles of gameplay are valable: Hisec, Lowsec, Nulsec, WH. Some people prefer Hisec. Who are you to judge what one prefers? Post with your main or GTFO.
OP was crying about changes to hisec merc work. I offered a solution to finding plentiful and readily available targets. You got butthurt about whatever and felt the need to post more tears.
I was under the impression that mercs were badazz hunter/killers. Your tears did not seem of the same quality. They did, however, smack of adolescent inability to adapt or die. For a lowsec whatever you are, you sure seem salty. Maybe you should move to hisec and buy a barge, you seem to fit that group well.
Post something relevant to OP's problem or GTFO |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
265
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 14:10:17 -
[66] - Quote
Jagd Wilde wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Jagd Wilde wrote:I have heard that if one wants quick, fast, and plentiful PvP , that one only needs to leave hisec. No need to spend hours hunting one hisec carebear. This is my main, FETID is a Lowsec entity. That being said: All styles of gameplay are valable: Hisec, Lowsec, Nulsec, WH. Some people prefer Hisec. Who are you to judge what one prefers? Post with your main or GTFO. OP was crying about changes to hisec merc work. I offered a solution to finding plentiful and readily available targets. You got butthurt about whatever and felt the need to post more tears. I was under the impression that mercs were badazz hunter/killers. Your tears did not seem of the same quality. They did, however, smack of adolescent inability to adapt or die. For a lowsec whatever you are, you sure seem salty. Maybe you should move to hisec and buy a barge, you seem to fit that group well. Post something relevant to OP's problem or GTFO
Speaking of trolls... The same goes for you tho.. leaving highsec does not really solve my problem.. does it?
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15305
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 14:22:04 -
[67] - Quote
Still stuck with the "**** what you find" instead of "find what you want to ****".
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Jagd Wilde
ffs i gave up on names
4
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 15:16:55 -
[68] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Jagd Wilde wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Jagd Wilde wrote:I have heard that if one wants quick, fast, and plentiful PvP , that one only needs to leave hisec. No need to spend hours hunting one hisec carebear. This is my main, FETID is a Lowsec entity. That being said: All styles of gameplay are valable: Hisec, Lowsec, Nulsec, WH. Some people prefer Hisec. Who are you to judge what one prefers? Post with your main or GTFO. OP was crying about changes to hisec merc work. I offered a solution to finding plentiful and readily available targets. You got butthurt about whatever and felt the need to post more tears. I was under the impression that mercs were badazz hunter/killers. Your tears did not seem of the same quality. They did, however, smack of adolescent inability to adapt or die. For a lowsec whatever you are, you sure seem salty. Maybe you should move to hisec and buy a barge, you seem to fit that group well. Post something relevant to OP's problem or GTFO Speaking of trolls... The same goes for you tho.. leaving highsec does not really solve my problem.. does it?
Hey i can admit that the watchlist changes were unnecessarily applied to hisec, and that CCP could have protected super pilots in null just by having the watchlist apply to only to pilots in hisec. Hawever, if your problem is that you cannot use the watchlist to easily find carebear targets, then you get no sympathy. EvE is hard. Adapt or die. Delete the week. I am sure you have heard it all. And some of us dont think it should be easy to kill targets in hisec while you are protected from others by CONCORD.
You cannot simply watchlist some noob carebear corp to easily farm kills outside of the hub/pipe systems anymore, and that may suck for someone who cannot adapt.
So adapt. I know that changing old habits is tough, and sometimes it just does seem worth it, but buck up friend. If you need to scare up some quick and plentiful kills to satiate your members then you should be in Saranen right now. Is there something stopping you from going to lowsec and finding gudfites? Something other than the relative safety that hisec game mechanics allow you while you hunt easy prey?
Hisec 'merc' corps have had it easy for a long time. Easy to pad the kb while relatively safe from the rest of EvE. Someone mentioned having an alt join the wt's for the member list intell. That suggestion was deemed "not worth it". To hard huh?
Maybe hisec 'merc' work was really not merc related. I will need to google 'mercenary' again, but does a merc not place themselves in harm's way, to use skills learned in battle to fight for someone in exchange for money?
Maybe you lot mistook 'merc' for 'assassin'. Either is viable gameplay in EvE, but only one takes on the dangers of mercernary work. The other hides behind CONCORD and wardecs while farming easy-killz in hisec.
Were any of you sperglords actually involved in the recent IWI merc war against the Imperium? For either side? If so, then congratulations, you earned isk as a Mercenary.
The rest of you were hiding in hisec, like assassins, trying to farm kills while protected by CONCORD.
I personally have several alts performing awox services in a few hisec carebear corps. It is very easy to see who is on and where they are in space, and all without a locator or watchlist. You could do this also, if you were able to adapt. |
ChinDownEyesUp Arkaral
United Wolfs Nations
7
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 15:43:43 -
[69] - Quote
really sad to hear it, I always saw the devils as the shining example of what i always considered the way highsec mercs should operate. as other have pointed out, it just never was the most optimal way to do things but it was at least possible. now its going to disappear and I will no longer be able to tell people that not all mercs are station/gate hugging cowards. (not that that is true anyways).
while i think the watchlist system was dissolved for other good reasons, it really shows the state of highsec warfare that the last dynamic avenue for merc operation was closed as an afterthought to solve a nullsec problem.
with just a few changes, i think highsec warfare could become something unique and worth preserving without having to make it like null or low, but without a CSM rep or any real voice we are pushed aside for what CCP inevitably considers higher priority features and problems. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2665
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 15:47:47 -
[70] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote: .. The ones who had no patience or effort for it left to other mass decing operations (just to have easier kills) or burned out and went to a 0.0 retirement home.. waiting for pings. ..
You used to ping me on mumble Late night when you need my deeps Ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing
Ever since I left hisec you Got a reputation for yourself now Everybody knows and I feel left out Dude you got me down, you got me stressed out Cause ever since I left hisec, you Started deccing less and sparking up more Buttsexxing bads in the Niarja corridor Hangin' with some toons I've never seen before
You used to ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps Ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing
Ever since I left hisec, you, you, you You and me we just don't get along You make me feel like I did you wrong Going places where I don't belong Ever since I left hisec, you You got exactly what you asked for Running out of targets in your pimp fit prot Hanging with some toons I've never seen before
You used to ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps Ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps I know when that mumble ping That can only mean one thing I know when that mumble ping That can only mean one thing
These days, all I do is Wonder if you tolerating drama from someone else Wonder if you rolling up a fat blunt with someone else Doing things I taught you dropping Bhaalgorns with someone else You don't need no one else You don't need nobody else, no Why you never far from home Why you always touching hisec road Used to always be patient, be a good dude You was in the zone You should just evac yourself Right now, you're someone else
You used to ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps Ping me on my mumble Late night when you need my deeps I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing I know when that hotline ping That can only mean one thing
Ever since I left hisec...
F
Would you like to know more?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15309
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 16:06:48 -
[71] - Quote
Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Frack Toasters
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 16:09:51 -
[72] - Quote
Merc's, lol where to start.
The meta game is over for you guys. Pack it up. The rest of EVE pretty much views you guys as clowns anyway. Do some real content. Leave high sec once in awhile.
Or just shut up and sit in trade hubs pick off single players at a time because content lel...... Don't forget to mass wardec too |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15309
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 16:22:45 -
[73] - Quote
shut up anslo.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Thermal Damage
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
207
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 16:46:04 -
[74] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:shut up anslo.
Always the correct reply to any Anslol statement.
I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP
|
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
595
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 02:57:06 -
[75] - Quote
Frack Toasters wrote:Merc's, lol where to start.
The meta game is over for you guys. Pack it up. The rest of EVE pretty much views you guys as clowns anyway. Do some real content. Leave high sec once in awhile.
Or just shut up and sit in trade hubs pick off single players at a time because content lel...... Don't forget to mass wardec too
Another "brave nullsec elitist" judging hs mercs. Cute
Post with your main or gtfo
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Sucky
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 07:47:27 -
[76] - Quote
Frack Toasters wrote:Merc's, lol where to start.
The meta game is over for you guys. Pack it up. The rest of EVE pretty much views you guys as clowns anyway. Do some real content. Leave high sec once in awhile.
Or just shut up and sit in trade hubs pick off single players at a time because content lel...... Don't forget to mass wardec too
Dj zelo Telepath is salty because shitfit Naglfar and has decided to take out his frustrations on the good folk of CnP with his cyno alt.
Am I close?
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Tengu Grib
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
1486
|
Posted - 2016.05.04 18:44:35 -
[77] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Solonius Rex wrote: Any ideas?
Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that
That's all it would take imo. Get feedback like you do with people in WH's. Or maybe new text. "The target is here, but he seems to be asleep."
Rabble Rabble Rabble
Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
796
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 23:08:22 -
[78] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As I recall, the buddy list can function as a watch list if the other person accepts the request. I have not tried this but it was how CCP said they would implement the change. In other words, if your friend agrees to you watchlisting them, you will see when they are online. This is why I suggested infiltration may be required now for normal hi sec merc work. Get an alt into the corp. Friendly up to the corpmates, claim you want to join their fleets when they get online and ask them to accept the buddy list invite. It may be harder, but may be doable. If i can get an alt into a corp i dont need to **** aroumd with the buddy list, i can just look in the corp member list and see who is online, regardless of this its still a ludicrously excessive amount of work to do on demand (which is what is required now), moreso than i can give to this game and i have tried , i do have a clean unaffiliated account but that should not be a requirement . Normal highsec Mercenary work is now sitting in hubs and pipes and decking everything that moves within eye-shot. We will not , Therefore we are no longer Mercenary's.
I've long thought that a neutral scout alt should not be a requirement for merc work and a booster alt should not be a requirement for lowsec pvp...the game of alts is real.
The more alts you have to run to play the game effectively, the more money CCP makes.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
796
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 23:10:20 -
[79] - Quote
Frack Toasters wrote:Merc's, lol where to start.
The meta game is over for you guys. Pack it up. The rest of EVE pretty much views you guys as clowns anyway. Do some real content. Leave high sec once in awhile.
Or just shut up and sit in trade hubs pick off single players at a time because content lel...... Don't forget to mass wardec too
I have respect for the guys that actually roam highsec and hunt for targets. The wardec spamming docking ring dwellers are not here complaining because they are not affected. |
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1509
|
Posted - 2016.05.05 23:23:02 -
[80] - Quote
Atleast I can say I've danced with the devil's in a pale moonlight. Never been a member but always a supporter.
MERC WITH A MOUTH
|
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eddie valvetino
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
178
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 15:18:22 -
[81] - Quote
normally
I would write some ******** and scathing response about whining and how you need to adapt to current game mechanics
Today
I have to say, I really you. Strikes me that you are not the run of the mill station camping, pipe camping moron but the sort of guy/corp that stand out from the High Sec scum bags.
If all high sec mercs were offering the level of quality you do, i would think long about hard and resolving my sec status and putting an app in.
The location system, to my knowlegde had never been looked at and should be been along with the changes to the bounty system.
Hope you get the changes you need and good luck
peas
Edd |
Johng Kahn
We're Happy In Wormhole Space
17
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 15:40:13 -
[82] - Quote
I took a 5 month break and came back to this change. I have only lived in w space and the lack of watch list has definitely impacted my ability to be able to get intel on targets as the locater system will only let me know if they are or are not in w space at the time i run it. (still kind of useful if you are sure they are on line).
Now i'm down to only good old fasion pos lurking and even that has changed with new cits, I dont know who is docked unless they undock. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
178
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 16:03:05 -
[83] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Random thought, would it be worth the effort to offer services to faction warfare corps? For example, pay us X and we'll guard gates while your faction runs the plexes? Or pay us X and we'll Dec and hunt faction corps in their hi sec system your militia can't easily reach?
Or... Start including a form of espionage with the contract. Pay X, we'll get a rookie in group Y, use him to add corp members to their watch list and Dec in a week or two?
Obviously not perfect, but something you could maybe offer?
good idea...
But sadly, in FW your targets high sec is far from safe.. and not that hard to infiltrate. Look at what Loren Gallen did solo and Wraith of Fenris did as a whole corp.
They were both able to regularly lock down whole high systems.
Having said that, I'm fairly certain, due the lack of skill shown by at least the Caldari FW corps.. you might find work hunting Gal Fed corps
Edd |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4229
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 16:20:04 -
[84] - Quote
I saw someone badmouth caldari FW and had to join in. It's been my experience, as a group that lives in Nourvukaiken that caldari FW players are some of the worst players in the game.
They pretty much just blow up one at a time while buzzing around nourv aimlessly or get caught while running missions or mining in highsec and on the rare occasion they actually attempt retaliation it consists of like 4 year old characters flying t1 trash boats without a coherent doctrine and no support. All the while they complain in local about how bad you are and that you won't fight them in lowsec, even though you routinely chase them around in lowsec and they only fly frigates there and they still run away.
Oh and they'll let you bash their highsec structures and won't appose you at all.
Regular highsec carebears are more aggressive and dangerous than caldari FW corps. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
801
|
Posted - 2016.05.09 20:13:35 -
[85] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:I saw someone badmouth caldari FW and had to join in. It's been my experience, as a group that lives in Nourvukaiken that caldari FW players are some of the worst players in the game.
They pretty much just blow up one at a time while buzzing around nourv aimlessly or get caught while running missions or mining in highsec and on the rare occasion they actually attempt retaliation it consists of like 4 year old characters flying t1 trash boats without a coherent doctrine and no support. All the while they complain in local about how bad you are and that you won't fight them in lowsec, even though you routinely chase them around in lowsec and they only fly frigates there and they still run away.
Oh and they'll let you bash their highsec structures and won't appose you at all.
Regular highsec carebears are more aggressive and dangerous than caldari FW corps.
Templis brings out decent doctrines against us on occasion. However they are extremely risk averse and prefer kiting doctrines with heavy logi support. (Gilas/snakes and basilisks etc.).
Church of Awesome is Aussie TZ and generally run kite stuff with links but that's excusable because there's like 6 of them. And they are the only calmil corp that consistently shows up to defend systems.
The rest of them are pretty bad it's true, usually found gatecamping with svipuls, farming with stabs or blobbing solo T1 frigs.
|
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2665
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 02:56:01 -
[86] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station
Would you like to know more?
|
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1518
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 03:10:26 -
[87] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station 1 lucky fighter with 2 torpedos kills thousands in a matter of seconds....... ... .... ... ..... And the devil's rejoice in ewok costumes.
MERC WITH A MOUTH
|
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
599
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 05:18:46 -
[88] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station 1 lucky fighter with 2 torpedos kills thousands in a matter of seconds....... ... .... ... ..... And the devil's rejoice in ewok costumes.
..to the ORIGINAL ewok music..not that crap from the remastered one.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1523
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 05:35:12 -
[89] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Saeger1737 wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station 1 lucky fighter with 2 torpedos kills thousands in a matter of seconds....... ... .... ... ..... And the devil's rejoice in ewok costumes. ..to the ORIGINAL ewok music..not that crap from the remastered one. I was thinking strip club style but sure we'll go with what you said.
MERC WITH A MOUTH
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15619
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 07:19:21 -
[90] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Feyd, you moved us to lowsec and all we did there was camp gates at the expense of active hunting before you left for null. Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station hmmm
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
|
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 16:00:09 -
[91] - Quote
My two cents:
I feel the pain of the op, but from the other end.
Merc's aren't merc's any more, they've become griefers. Once upon a time a merc was a mercenary. A soldier for hire. Now, alliances like Marmite and Vendetta wardec anything that moves and breathes. As of this post, Vendetta has well over 200 wardec's and Marmite is approaching 100.
In order to make these wardec's pay off, they have to get lucky. Since they can't determine any more if a target is online or offline, their best solution is to dec as many as possible and wait for one of these targets to get stupid and stumble into them. And I honestly don't blame them for that tactic.
Yea, my corp was dec'd by Marmite. And here's the net result of these en-mass wardec's from the other end. Noobs quitting EVE.
Imagine this: You've seen all the ads and decide to give EVE a try. 2 weeks into playing, you find a corp you like and decide to subscribe and join them. 2 days later, Vendetta dec's the corp you joined simply because the corp exists. Since the corp you joined is comprised of mostly noobs less than a month old, the CEO does the smartest thing he can do... tell them to stay docked for the duration of the war. The philosophy here is, the more entertaining you make it for the corp wardec'ing you, the more likely they'll renew it so, the CEO closes the exit door in the hopes they get bored and go away. So now, for the next week, this really cool game you just found... you're learning how to spin your ship in dock.
Here's your choices:
1. Sit tight and let the war blow over. 2. Quit the corp thinking there's gotta be another corp that doesn't get wardec'd (right, we know how that goes.) 3. Unsubscribe because you're paying to PLAY a game, not stare at it's interface.
Give mercs the tools they need to be mercs so they'll stop being just random griefers. I'm sure they'd rather be picking on valuable targets they can actually FIND where there's some skill required. I find it hard to believe they are doing this for the bragging rights after podding Joe Noob in his Impirator for that massive 1 Trit drop. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
88
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:08:01 -
[92] - Quote
Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
|
Dom Arkaral
Axios
420
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 18:59:10 -
[93] - Quote
Rawmeat Mary wrote:Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes. I only saw FA in Derelik... and I saw them once
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 19:08:41 -
[94] - Quote
Rawmeat Mary wrote:Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes.
Avoiding their wardec isn't the issue. I'm an old fart, I can do that easily. I'm a skilled trader. I can sit in dock for weeks and still make isk. Noobs on the other hand, well they're noobs.
CCP knows this is an issue which is why once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. With CCP turning a blind eye to multiboxing, making billions with alts to pay for hundreds of wardec's and their plex, is nothing more than a temporary inconvenience to them.
There will always be griefing in this game. Some people just need to massage their ego with whatever kill they can get. I realize that. If you want to grief, go join Spectre. I'm all for npsi. If it helps for them to vent frustrations on passersby, I support that. The area and number of people they affect at any one time is insignificant when you look at the big picture. Then, take a look at the list of current wars. You'll quickly find that a handful of corps & alliances have declared war on some 1,000 other corporations/alliances. When a minority is able to extend griefing to the point that it encompasses a huge majority... for an entire week... then there's a problem.
And right now, that problem is affecting CCP's wallet. I can see that whether they can or not.
If giving mercs the ability to do their job is one step toward fixing this, I'm all in. |
Dom Arkaral
Axios
421
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 19:32:04 -
[95] - Quote
Mark Hamill wrote:Rawmeat Mary wrote:Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes. Avoiding their wardec isn't the issue. I'm an old fart, I can do that easily. I'm a skilled trader. I can sit in dock for weeks and still make isk. Noobs on the other hand, well they're noobs. CCP knows this is an issue which is why once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. With CCP turning a blind eye to multiboxing, making billions with alts to pay for hundreds of wardec's and their plex, is nothing more than a temporary inconvenience to them. There will always be griefing in this game. Some people just need to massage their ego with whatever kill they can get. I realize that. If you want to grief, go join Spectre. I'm all for npsi. If it helps for them to vent frustrations on passersby, I support that. The area and number of people they affect at any one time is insignificant when you look at the big picture. Then, take a look at the list of current wars. You'll quickly find that a handful of corps & alliances have declared war on some 1,000 other corporations/alliances. When a minority is able to extend griefing to the point that it encompasses a huge majority... for an entire week... then there's a problem. And right now, that problem is affecting CCP's wallet. I can see that whether they can or not. If giving mercs the ability to do their job is one step toward fixing this, I'm all in. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up...
You're just another clueless carebear
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15694
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 19:58:02 -
[96] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
2
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 19:58:55 -
[97] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote:Rawmeat Mary wrote:Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes. Avoiding their wardec isn't the issue. I'm an old fart, I can do that easily. I'm a skilled trader. I can sit in dock for weeks and still make isk. Noobs on the other hand, well they're noobs. CCP knows this is an issue which is why once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. With CCP turning a blind eye to multiboxing, making billions with alts to pay for hundreds of wardec's and their plex, is nothing more than a temporary inconvenience to them. There will always be griefing in this game. Some people just need to massage their ego with whatever kill they can get. I realize that. If you want to grief, go join Spectre. I'm all for npsi. If it helps for them to vent frustrations on passersby, I support that. The area and number of people they affect at any one time is insignificant when you look at the big picture. Then, take a look at the list of current wars. You'll quickly find that a handful of corps & alliances have declared war on some 1,000 other corporations/alliances. When a minority is able to extend griefing to the point that it encompasses a huge majority... for an entire week... then there's a problem. And right now, that problem is affecting CCP's wallet. I can see that whether they can or not. If giving mercs the ability to do their job is one step toward fixing this, I'm all in. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear
I think you better read that again. I said ONCE UPON A TIME.
And when you're done re-reading that, switch your skill training... from foolish jackass to comprehension. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
89
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 20:12:50 -
[98] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Rawmeat Mary wrote:Or go live in Minmatar space or Derelik or Khanid.
You will cut off 75% of the losses from Hisec Wardecs, as almost everyone and their sisters, aunts and cousin-brothers camp Jita, Amarr or the Hek-Dodi-Jita-Amarr trade pipes. I only saw FA in Derelik... and I saw them once Indeed. That being said, I tend to roam Minmatar and Derelik space, but that's me.
I altogether stopped making 'watchlists' from pet project corps or even contracts, so usefull it is now...
A notebook with names and times, some added potential contacts targets with notes on their ships and last seen locations... Everything else is almost a blind luck find, except for some rare corps that live/play together and/or got structures to shoot at.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
|
Dom Arkaral
Axios
421
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 20:27:51 -
[99] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom. No offense, but I don't really care about the prices of old. The past is behind for a reason
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Valkin Mordirc
2059
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 21:22:09 -
[100] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom. No offense, but I don't really care about the prices of old. The past is behind for a reason
Nice Deflection.
Who are you anyways and why must you talk so much shite?
I remember you running your mouth in defense for Marmite a while back, and now your basically snapping at everyone and everything.
#DeleteTheWeak
|
|
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
5
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 22:25:39 -
[101] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom. No offense, but I don't really care about the prices of old. The past is behind for a reason
The fact that you inserted your foot so far into your mouth you're shitting shoe leather is in the past too. And I'm certain you're doomed to repeat that as well. |
Dom Arkaral
Axios
421
|
Posted - 2016.05.13 23:02:21 -
[102] - Quote
Mark Hamill wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom. No offense, but I don't really care about the prices of old. The past is behind for a reason The fact that you inserted your foot so far into your mouth you're shitting shoe leather is in the past too. And I'm certain you're doomed to repeat that as well. Ask me if I care
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
601
|
Posted - 2016.05.14 03:02:09 -
[103] - Quote
Mark...you seem angry..do you need a hug?
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Nitshe Razvedka
749
|
Posted - 2016.05.14 03:57:51 -
[104] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Mark...you seem angry..do you need a hug?
You should be hugging your old corp mate, he is not on an even keel.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
279
|
Posted - 2016.05.14 04:41:40 -
[105] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:Mark Hamill wrote: once upon a time, wardec's only cost 5 mil. And back then, that was a sizable chunk of change to a noob corp. PSA: Wardecs are 50m a piece... for 50 - member corps or less, then it goes up and up... You're just another clueless carebear re-read that , then remove the foot from your mouth and keep the trash talk out of our threads please dom. No offense, but I don't really care about the prices of old. The past is behind for a reason Nice Deflection. Who are you anyways and why must you talk so much shite? I remember you running your mouth in defense for Marmite a while back, and now your basically snapping at everyone and everything. Oh, let me introduce you to my friend Dom. He's just doing what he does. Hes concearned with things like relevance vs irrelevance and sodium content and that sort of thing. Now that hes stepped on his you know what, and been chastised for it, he will probably be back in here soon calling for the thread to get back on topic.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
275
|
Posted - 2016.05.14 10:32:17 -
[106] - Quote
Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points. |
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
9
|
Posted - 2016.05.14 17:39:28 -
[107] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points.
Ok, back on topic.
Here's a perfect example of what I mean.
I have a corp with 21 members. All but 3 of us are absolute noobs (or spy alts, you just never know).
1 has already quit the corp as a result of our Marmite wardec. 1 who was waiting to join, gave up, went to another corp. As for the other 16 'active' members... I've been the only corp member logged on for longer than 15 minutes in the past 3 days.
Not once in the past 5 days have I seen a member of Marmite either in my local or while running around with my alt.
Now mind you... this is not me whining. I'm old enough and been playing long enough, I know how this all works and I warned every noob that joined it wasn't IF we got wardec'd, it was WHEN. But this isn't really a war. If it were someone who were pissed at me for a valid reason and I thot my reasons justified, I'd be rallying my guys, putting them in logi's, undocking and fighting this thing out. Instead, this is just labeling someone as a high-sec target on the random chance they stumble into a gate camp. How do I know this? Marmite hasn't bothered to contact me in the least. If someone had hired them, there's a pretty good chance they'd want me to know why. If nothing else, a note demanding ransom. No, when you wardec 250 high sec corps like Vendetta, it's not about being a mercenary or even a pirate. It's an attempt sit in the safely of high sec with all the benefits of NBSI null.
The net result of all this is, I have 16 noobs who's first experience with EVE war... is to not even bother to log into the game. So I can't honestly see how this makes them want to keep playing. My first war was over a can flipper. And that war, I fought tooth and nail. It was great for teambuilding, morale and when we got a kill, it was something to celebrate. This one. When you're fighting someone who has no rhyme or reason other than to get a killmail and maybe, if they're real lucky, some dumbass in a freighter, then there's no point. There is no resolution, no justice served, no defending your honor... it's just pointless.
And if this is what mercs have had to resort to in order to have fun or make a few isk, then I can't see how it benefits them or CCP in the long run. Do alliances like Vendetta and Marmite actually think I'll contact them when I do need their services? No, I want mercenaries, not unreliable griefers who's only mission is to massage their ego by killing someone they don't even know. Does CCP think that a noobs first experience with war should be to... just not even log into the game because it's a pointless war?
As far as I'm concerned, both mercs and wardec's are broken systems and both players and CCP are on the losing end of it. |
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
603
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 04:10:47 -
[108] - Quote
Mark Hamill wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points. Ok, back on topic. Here's a perfect example of what I mean. I have a corp with 21 members. All but 3 of us are absolute noobs (or spy alts, you just never know). Definitely low hanging fruit as the OP puts it. 1 has already quit the corp as a result of our Marmite wardec. 1 who was waiting to join, gave up, went to another corp. As for the other 16 'active' members... I've been the only corp member logged on for longer than 15 minutes in the past 3 days. Not once in the past 5 days have I seen a member of Marmite either in my local or while running around with my alt. Now mind you... this is not me whining. I'm old enough and been playing long enough, I know how this all works and I warned every noob that joined it wasn't IF we got wardec'd, it was WHEN. But this isn't really a war. If it were someone who were pissed at me for a valid reason and I thot my reasons justified, I'd be rallying my guys, putting them in logi's, undocking and fighting this thing out. Instead, this is just labeling someone as a high-sec target on the random chance they stumble into a gate camp. How do I know this? Marmite hasn't bothered to contact me in the least. If someone had hired them, there's a pretty good chance they'd want me to know why. If nothing else, a note demanding ransom. No, when you wardec 250 high sec corps like Vendetta, it's not about being a mercenary or even a pirate. It's an attempt sit in the safely of high sec with all the benefits of NBSI null. The net result of all this is, I have 16 noobs who's first experience with EVE war... is to not even bother to log into the game. So I can't honestly see how this makes them want to keep playing. My first war was over a can flipper. And that war, I fought tooth and nail. It was great for teambuilding, morale and when we got a kill, it was something to celebrate. This one. When you're fighting someone who has no rhyme or reason other than to get a killmail and maybe, if they're real lucky, some dumbass in a freighter, then there's no point. There is no resolution, no justice served, no defending your honor... it's just pointless. And if this is what mercs have had to resort to in order to have fun or make a few isk, then I can't see how it benefits them or CCP in the long run. Do alliances like Vendetta and Marmite actually think I'll contact them when I do need their services? No, I want mercenaries, not unreliable griefers who's only mission is to massage their ego by killing someone they don't even know. Does CCP think that a noobs first experience with war should be to... just not even log into the game because it's a pointless war? As far as I'm concerned, both mercs and wardec's are broken systems and both players and CCP are on the losing end of it.
Mark..mercs don't discuss clients or terms of contracts with anyone..especially targets. If they did..they wouldn't get much business. Discretion is of the utmost importance. Besides that, most mercs don't care why someone wants some particular corp decced..just that they pay. In that, it's unlikely any merc corp/alliance is going to take the time to contact a target. Most would rather get the kills than take a surrender..unless the price is right ofc..hence mercs.
There is a lot of unjustified and bias "merc bashing" going on by those who don't know the difference between a merc alliance and a griefer dec corp. Ofc someone on the recieving end of a dec is gonna think it's griefing. Eve is a galaxy in turmoil and as such no one is safe anywhere, from anyone. If corps want to be angry, blame the clients, not the mercs. What we do is business not personal. The personal came from someone else.
The bottom line is..no war is pointless. Just because you don't understand or know the reason doesn't mean there's no point. EVERYONE should be willing and able to protect their interests and what is theirs at all times. If you aren't or don't..then you don't deserve to have it. As it is in rl..as it is in Eve.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
293
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 17:36:42 -
[109] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Mark Hamill wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points. Ok, back on topic. Here's a perfect example of what I mean. I have a corp with 21 members. All but 3 of us are absolute noobs (or spy alts, you just never know). Definitely low hanging fruit as the OP puts it. 1 has already quit the corp as a result of our Marmite wardec. 1 who was waiting to join, gave up, went to another corp. As for the other 16 'active' members... I've been the only corp member logged on for longer than 15 minutes in the past 3 days. Not once in the past 5 days have I seen a member of Marmite either in my local or while running around with my alt. Now mind you... this is not me whining. I'm old enough and been playing long enough, I know how this all works and I warned every noob that joined it wasn't IF we got wardec'd, it was WHEN. But this isn't really a war. If it were someone who were pissed at me for a valid reason and I thot my reasons justified, I'd be rallying my guys, putting them in logi's, undocking and fighting this thing out. Instead, this is just labeling someone as a high-sec target on the random chance they stumble into a gate camp. How do I know this? Marmite hasn't bothered to contact me in the least. If someone had hired them, there's a pretty good chance they'd want me to know why. If nothing else, a note demanding ransom. No, when you wardec 250 high sec corps like Vendetta, it's not about being a mercenary or even a pirate. It's an attempt sit in the safely of high sec with all the benefits of NBSI null. The net result of all this is, I have 16 noobs who's first experience with EVE war... is to not even bother to log into the game. So I can't honestly see how this makes them want to keep playing. My first war was over a can flipper. And that war, I fought tooth and nail. It was great for teambuilding, morale and when we got a kill, it was something to celebrate. This one. When you're fighting someone who has no rhyme or reason other than to get a killmail and maybe, if they're real lucky, some dumbass in a freighter, then there's no point. There is no resolution, no justice served, no defending your honor... it's just pointless. And if this is what mercs have had to resort to in order to have fun or make a few isk, then I can't see how it benefits them or CCP in the long run. Do alliances like Vendetta and Marmite actually think I'll contact them when I do need their services? No, I want mercenaries, not unreliable griefers who's only mission is to massage their ego by killing someone they don't even know. Does CCP think that a noobs first experience with war should be to... just not even log into the game because it's a pointless war? As far as I'm concerned, both mercs and wardec's are broken systems and both players and CCP are on the losing end of it. There is a lot of unjustified and bias "merc bashing" going on by those who don't know the difference between a merc alliance and a griefer dec corp. Is it really unjustified when the line between the two is so transparent one could argue whether or not there is even a distinction?
Lets look at your group for example, almost 100 active wardecs. That must really keep you guys hoppin considering they removed the watchlist feature. I cant imagine having to keep that many paying customers happy. You got the goons in there too. A shame you cant talk about your clients, it would probably be a pretty entertaining story. Despite the fact that the goons just got their asses handed to them in a major nullsec war, someone was still so grr-goons that they just had to pay you guys to dec-em too.
Now lets be realistic for a minute, I dont think anybodys buying the fact that Archetype and any of the other well known merc outfits have 100+ legitimate contracts out at any given time. I guess we'll never know though will we, given the confidential nature of the buisness.
I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of the hi-sec merc community is limited, but in this case I think im singularly qualified to reply to Kaely's post considering I was under a wardec from her organization recently. I too am fond of the old cliche 'its not personal its just buisness'. I find that a bit disingenuos coming from Kaely due to her throwing a dec at me for what basically amounts to me trash talking her friends in local. If thats not personal then what is? Or did someone really throw money at you guys to dec me for two weeks? I guess well never know, confidentiality and all that. How convenient that must be.
I think kaely needs to consider that the whole point of this thread is the Devils Warriors closing shop because they dont want to become what Kaelys group is and was long before ccp took the watchlist away.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
|
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
252
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 21:08:26 -
[110] - Quote
yet we managed to have wars quite easily long before the buddy list showed up. sorry eve is no longer on easy mode for you guys.
|
|
Valkin Mordirc
2083
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 21:29:37 -
[111] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:yet we managed to have wars quite easily long before the buddy list showed up. sorry eve is no longer on easy mode for you guys.
Not to be a **** but have you ever tried to hunt war targets before? Specially in a small group of only 10ish players?
It's not easy mode and it probably one of the best ways to get a fight in highsec.
https://beta.eve-kill.net/war/384259/
A War like this, It was really fun for both sides and we had a blast. **** like this is soooo much harder to come by now because of the time it takes to pin down a target.
Yeah you can go out into lowsec and shizzle to find fights just like this one, but the thing is though is that it makes
#DeleteTheWeak
|
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
606
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 22:24:42 -
[112] - Quote
Tyyler DURden wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:Mark Hamill wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points. Ok, back on topic. Here's a perfect example of what I mean. I have a corp with 21 members. All but 3 of us are absolute noobs (or spy alts, you just never know). Definitely low hanging fruit as the OP puts it. 1 has already quit the corp as a result of our Marmite wardec. 1 who was waiting to join, gave up, went to another corp. As for the other 16 'active' members... I've been the only corp member logged on for longer than 15 minutes in the past 3 days. Not once in the past 5 days have I seen a member of Marmite either in my local or while running around with my alt. Now mind you... this is not me whining. I'm old enough and been playing long enough, I know how this all works and I warned every noob that joined it wasn't IF we got wardec'd, it was WHEN. But this isn't really a war. If it were someone who were pissed at me for a valid reason and I thot my reasons justified, I'd be rallying my guys, putting them in logi's, undocking and fighting this thing out. Instead, this is just labeling someone as a high-sec target on the random chance they stumble into a gate camp. How do I know this? Marmite hasn't bothered to contact me in the least. If someone had hired them, there's a pretty good chance they'd want me to know why. If nothing else, a note demanding ransom. No, when you wardec 250 high sec corps like Vendetta, it's not about being a mercenary or even a pirate. It's an attempt sit in the safely of high sec with all the benefits of NBSI null. The net result of all this is, I have 16 noobs who's first experience with EVE war... is to not even bother to log into the game. So I can't honestly see how this makes them want to keep playing. My first war was over a can flipper. And that war, I fought tooth and nail. It was great for teambuilding, morale and when we got a kill, it was something to celebrate. This one. When you're fighting someone who has no rhyme or reason other than to get a killmail and maybe, if they're real lucky, some dumbass in a freighter, then there's no point. There is no resolution, no justice served, no defending your honor... it's just pointless. And if this is what mercs have had to resort to in order to have fun or make a few isk, then I can't see how it benefits them or CCP in the long run. Do alliances like Vendetta and Marmite actually think I'll contact them when I do need their services? No, I want mercenaries, not unreliable griefers who's only mission is to massage their ego by killing someone they don't even know. Does CCP think that a noobs first experience with war should be to... just not even log into the game because it's a pointless war? As far as I'm concerned, both mercs and wardec's are broken systems and both players and CCP are on the losing end of it. There is a lot of unjustified and bias "merc bashing" going on by those who don't know the difference between a merc alliance and a griefer dec corp. Is it really unjustified when the line between the two is so transparent one could argue whether or not there is even a distinction? Lets look at your group for example, almost 100 active wardecs. That must really keep you guys hoppin considering they removed the watchlist feature. I cant imagine having to keep that many paying customers happy. You got the goons in there too. A shame you cant talk about your clients, it would probably be a pretty entertaining story. Despite the fact that the goons just got their asses handed to them in a major nullsec war, someone was still so grr-goons that they just had to pay you guys to dec-em too. Now lets be realistic for a minute, I dont think anybodys buying the fact that Archetype and any of the other well known merc outfits have 100+ legitimate contracts out at any given time. I guess we'll never know though will we, given the confidential nature of the buisness. I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of the hi-sec merc community is limited, but in this case I think im singularly qualified to reply to Kaely's post considering I was under a wardec from her organization recently. I too am fond of the old cliche 'its not personal its just buisness'. I find that a bit disingenuos coming from Kaely due to her throwing a dec at me for what basically amounts to me trash talking her friends in local. If thats not personal then what is? Or did someone really throw money at you guys to dec me for two weeks? I guess well never know, confidentiality and all that. How convenient that must be. I think kaely needs to consider that the whole point of this thread is the Devils Warriors closing shop because they dont want to become what Kaelys group is and was long before ccp took the watchlist away.
Tyler, I'm sorry you think you're that important. Does my reply help you sooth your ego and false sense of worth?
..but I digress. I am well aware of what this thread is about and it saddens me to a degree you couldn't understand. I was in Devils for over 6 months. I flew with that great bunch of guys. I flew all over New Eden with them and had a great time. I hate to see them go and wish them all the best in their endeavours. Raz, Tearz, Ralph, and all of the other guys (yes, you too Feyd ) were some of the coolest people I've had the honor of playing with. Keep in mind though..the Devil is not dead, just sleeping.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2110
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 23:12:49 -
[113] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:yet we managed to have wars quite easily long before the buddy list showed up. sorry eve is no longer on easy mode for you guys.
We used to **** in the woods too.
#thegoodolddays #wheniwasaboy #cholera #buboes #yawn
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2871
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 00:02:13 -
[114] - Quote
Used to? My employers should count themselves supremely lucky that pretty much everywhere here is on camera 24/7
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
294
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 00:44:34 -
[115] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Tyyler DURden wrote:Kaely Tanniss wrote:Mark Hamill wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Well, I would also like the thread back on topic after Dom made a fool out of himself...
Mark had some valid points. Ok, back on topic. Here's a perfect example of what I mean. I have a corp with 21 members. All but 3 of us are absolute noobs (or spy alts, you just never know). Definitely low hanging fruit as the OP puts it. 1 has already quit the corp as a result of our Marmite wardec. 1 who was waiting to join, gave up, went to another corp. As for the other 16 'active' members... I've been the only corp member logged on for longer than 15 minutes in the past 3 days. Not once in the past 5 days have I seen a member of Marmite either in my local or while running around with my alt. Now mind you... this is not me whining. I'm old enough and been playing long enough, I know how this all works and I warned every noob that joined it wasn't IF we got wardec'd, it was WHEN. But this isn't really a war. If it were someone who were pissed at me for a valid reason and I thot my reasons justified, I'd be rallying my guys, putting them in logi's, undocking and fighting this thing out. Instead, this is just labeling someone as a high-sec target on the random chance they stumble into a gate camp. How do I know this? Marmite hasn't bothered to contact me in the least. If someone had hired them, there's a pretty good chance they'd want me to know why. If nothing else, a note demanding ransom. No, when you wardec 250 high sec corps like Vendetta, it's not about being a mercenary or even a pirate. It's an attempt sit in the safely of high sec with all the benefits of NBSI null. The net result of all this is, I have 16 noobs who's first experience with EVE war... is to not even bother to log into the game. So I can't honestly see how this makes them want to keep playing. My first war was over a can flipper. And that war, I fought tooth and nail. It was great for teambuilding, morale and when we got a kill, it was something to celebrate. This one. When you're fighting someone who has no rhyme or reason other than to get a killmail and maybe, if they're real lucky, some dumbass in a freighter, then there's no point. There is no resolution, no justice served, no defending your honor... it's just pointless. And if this is what mercs have had to resort to in order to have fun or make a few isk, then I can't see how it benefits them or CCP in the long run. Do alliances like Vendetta and Marmite actually think I'll contact them when I do need their services? No, I want mercenaries, not unreliable griefers who's only mission is to massage their ego by killing someone they don't even know. Does CCP think that a noobs first experience with war should be to... just not even log into the game because it's a pointless war? As far as I'm concerned, both mercs and wardec's are broken systems and both players and CCP are on the losing end of it. There is a lot of unjustified and bias "merc bashing" going on by those who don't know the difference between a merc alliance and a griefer dec corp. Is it really unjustified when the line between the two is so transparent one could argue whether or not there is even a distinction? Lets look at your group for example, almost 100 active wardecs. That must really keep you guys hoppin considering they removed the watchlist feature. I cant imagine having to keep that many paying customers happy. You got the goons in there too. A shame you cant talk about your clients, it would probably be a pretty entertaining story. Despite the fact that the goons just got their asses handed to them in a major nullsec war, someone was still so grr-goons that they just had to pay you guys to dec-em too. Now lets be realistic for a minute, I dont think anybodys buying the fact that Archetype and any of the other well known merc outfits have 100+ legitimate contracts out at any given time. I guess we'll never know though will we, given the confidential nature of the buisness. I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of the hi-sec merc community is limited, but in this case I think im singularly qualified to reply to Kaely's post considering I was under a wardec from her organization recently. I too am fond of the old cliche 'its not personal its just buisness'. I find that a bit disingenuos coming from Kaely due to her throwing a dec at me for what basically amounts to me trash talking her friends in local. If thats not personal then what is? Or did someone really throw money at you guys to dec me for two weeks? I guess well never know, confidentiality and all that. How convenient that must be. I think kaely needs to consider that the whole point of this thread is the Devils Warriors closing shop because they dont want to become what Kaelys group is and was long before ccp took the watchlist away. Tyler, I'm sorry you think you're that important. Does my reply help you sooth your ego and false sense of worth? Interesting that I responed to your post with valid arguements and counterpoints and you responded to mine with petty jabs. Must have hit a little close to home with some of my criticisms of your esteemed group. Sorry bout that, have a little HTFU to put in your coffee, help take the edge off.
Thanks though for hammering home one of the points I made in an indirect way. Its because of how unimportant I am,that illustrates how bogus your ' its not personal its just buisness' arguement is. Somehow a virtual space nobody like me managed to catch a dec from the mighty Archetype.
Now Kaely, if you cant resist the urge to reply,remember to post constructivley and try to keep it out of the dirt.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
|
Dom Arkaral
Axios
438
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 02:10:37 -
[116] - Quote
*off-topic* Oh look Tyler is calling the kettle black
*on-topic* Devils will never die, they'll only come back, stronger than before (and hopefuilly still hunting )
Cheers lads, Fly Dangerous, D.
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
294
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 05:10:51 -
[117] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:*off-topic* Oh look Tyler is calling the kettle black *on-topic* Devils will never die, they'll only come back, stronger than before (and hopefuilly still hunting ) Cheers lads, Fly Dangerous, D. Didn't you get handled pretty severely already in this thread? Back for more eh? Best of luck to you.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
|
Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
607
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 05:51:13 -
[118] - Quote
Tyyler DURden wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:*off-topic* Oh look Tyler is calling the kettle black *on-topic* Devils will never die, they'll only come back, stronger than before (and hopefuilly still hunting ) Cheers lads, Fly Dangerous, D. Didn't you get handled pretty severely already in this thread? Back for more eh? Best of luck to you.
Oh Tyler..we don't need a "reason" to dec someone beyond that we just plain feel like it. After all, in case you've forgotten what game you're playing, that is the intent of Eve. Deal with it GÖÑGÖÑ
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2112
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 06:46:12 -
[119] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Used to? My employers should count themselves supremely lucky that pretty much everywhere here is on camera 24/7
Well, not for a few weeks at least. As I get older I'm finding it increasingly difficult to dig holes.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4315
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 06:54:24 -
[120] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Oh Tyler..we don't need a "reason" to dec someone beyond that we just plain feel like it. After all, in case you've forgotten what game you're playing, that is the intent of Eve. Deal with it GÖÑGÖÑ
Sorry but as a matter of fact you do need a reason to declare war on somebody.
The reason might be that you pushed the wrong button, or that you have a need to provide content for your members and that you think having that group to shoot at will provide them with content, it could even be that the random number generator you use to pick corps to declare war on happened to pick them.
Regardless of what it is there is always some kind of reason.
To quote the former CCP Unifex "for really whatever reason they want" is how the war declaration system is intended to be used. |
|
Dom Arkaral
Axios
439
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:27:26 -
[121] - Quote
Tyyler DURden wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:*off-topic* Oh look Tyler is calling the kettle black *on-topic* Devils will never die, they'll only come back, stronger than before (and hopefuilly still hunting ) Cheers lads, Fly Dangerous, D. Didn't you get handled pretty severely already in this thread? Back for more eh? Best of luck to you. hi little crybaby
I made my point. Now kill yourself (ingame) and send me the body. kthxbai
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Nitshe Razvedka
827
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:52:04 -
[122] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:
hi little crybaby
I made my point. Now kill yourself (ingame) and send me the body. kthxbai
Didn't we agree you were relevant if you contributed something constructive.
How-bout you link that Zopiclone story?! Or tell us how Code's been travelling since the isk spigot has been turned off??
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2872
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:58:52 -
[123] - Quote
Oi. I have no axe to grind here, but I gotta say that you ladies need to take your **** measuring contest elsewhere. I'm still mourning the loss of my ability to effectively clownstomp victims 30 jumps from home here. All this posturing is disrupting my train of thought as I try to conceive new ways to chase after the space bunnies who have dropped off my radar. You are all pretty. All men would die to lay with you. Be happy, go murder people. It's a thing.
Sorry if I'm standin on your e-peen... but it's a Devils kinda thing.
PS: Mortlake, you actually BURIED it? I usually just would pick either a Wal-Mart to drop trow in and drag my arse across the floor in, or cover my leavings with leaves on a nice and busy hiking trail so that some hipster would likely come to understand how I really felt about them when they had to clean it out of their sandals.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
105
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 14:20:15 -
[124] - Quote
I am going to share a method I started using lately. It is not great, but i helps the hunting, a wee bit.
Keeping Track of Targets and Hopefully Catch Them Eventually (or KTTHCTE).
Make a 24 hours Contact List period Tabs: 00:00 to 24:00
That's 24 Tabs, for the maths impered.
Check KB and/or roam scouts to find Worth-to-Hunt War Targets.
Per usual method, write Notes on said targets: Ships, possible fits, systems, stations, time zone, etc).
When you find Target (either active or docked up) add said WT to Watchlist Buddylist in the apropriate Hourly tab, so you have a rough idea when the player is online. Rince and repeat. You should end up with a fairly filled Timezone Tab Buddlylist (or TTB) over time, depending of intel/scouting ressourcres.
Use it as a reference tool to zip around with scouts to see if said WT are online in noted times and systems. Update TTB as needed. Use it in combination with Locators as needed.
My personal method to help deal with CCP's crapping all over EVE hunters.
It is still an inordinate amount of time spent doing nothing except flying around with alts, but at least, it is better than nothing.
P.S Works better with multiple week Wardecs
P.P.S Constructive posting.
Now destroy me for being an imbecil, if needed.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
|
Dom Arkaral
Axios
439
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 14:48:54 -
[125] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:
hi little crybaby
I made my point. Now kill yourself (ingame) and send me the body. kthxbai
Didn't we agree you were relevant if you contributed something constructive. How-bout you link that Zopiclone story?! Or tell us how Code's been travelling since the isk spigot has been turned off?? I think we're doing fine And this isn't the place to talk about Zopi. You want answers, go ask him yourself I'm no one's slave so gtfo kthxbai
I'm letting this thread go, as I already said everything that needed be o7
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1152
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 14:59:27 -
[126] - Quote
I understand your sadness because you cant hunt targets effectively anymore, as used to in the past. Yet I am still happy about the watchlist change, as I strongly believe that you (and anyone else) should not be able to survey my online status easily as it was back in the days as it always struck me how such a terrible feature found its way into the game.
|
Nitshe Razvedka
827
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 15:04:15 -
[127] - Quote
[quote=Omar Alharazaad] All this posturing is disrupting my train of thought as I try to conceive new ways to chase after the space bunnies who have dropped off my radar. quote]
Sorry to disrupt you scat story, something relevant to say? You sound like a shuttle stewardess I met.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 15:27:34 -
[128] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:I understand your sadness because you cant hunt targets effectively anymore, as used to in the past. Yet I am still happy about the watchlist change, as I strongly believe that you (and anyone else) should not be able to survey my online status easily as it was back in the days as it always struck me how such a terrible feature found its way into the game.
You do know this "feature" was used by both agressors and defenders? Keep track of old friends.. who comes back to game without knowing about this sneaky change. And so on..
To my knowlegde watchlist has been a feature in eve since the beginning, I can watch vids from 03 with watchlist notifications popping up.
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Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
301
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 15:45:01 -
[129] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Tyyler DURden wrote:Dom Arkaral wrote:*off-topic* Oh look Tyler is calling the kettle black *on-topic* Devils will never die, they'll only come back, stronger than before (and hopefuilly still hunting ) Cheers lads, Fly Dangerous, D. Didn't you get handled pretty severely already in this thread? Back for more eh? Best of luck to you. Oh Tyler..we don't need a "reason" to dec someone beyond that we just plain feel like it. After all, in case you've forgotten what game you're playing, that is the intent of Eve. Deal with it GÖÑGÖÑ Oh, I thought you did need a reason to dec someone Kaely. I guess I thought that because you said something along those lines in a previous post in this very thread. Something about it being buisness and the difference between professional mercing and greifer dec corps.
So am I getting this right..... "we deced you because someone took out a contract" = professional merc corp "we deced you because we felt like it" = griefer dec corp In my humble opinion the state of affairs in eve today resembles this.... "we deced you because,10% contracts, 20% felt like it, 70% for targets and green KB's" = the state of mercing in todays Eve Online.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
539
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 23:44:04 -
[130] - Quote
I thought the chat function allowed you to see if someone is online or not (at least it did immediately after the change).
So send player private convo request, if they are offline it has a specific response.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15954
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 23:45:37 -
[131] - Quote
try this with a 60 man alliance
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 14:37:11 -
[132] - Quote
In my Original Rant, I did mention CCP was promoting mercenary emergent gameplay.
Today I was bored and was looking at old dev blogs and I found this perfect example about the "mercenary marketplace" from 2012 And that little future bit at the end made me chuckle... its now been 4 years and nothing. Oh wait.. they removed a tool. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4360
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 14:42:55 -
[133] - Quote
I like how the ally system was meant to be the basis of something that was to be expanded upon, then just wasn't and now just serves as a massive deterrent to aggression and a way for mercenaries to get free wars. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7718
|
Posted - 2016.05.25 18:48:53 -
[134] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:In my Original Rant, I did mention CCP was promoting mercenary emergent gameplay. Today I was bored and was looking at old dev blogs and I found this perfect example about the " mercenary marketplace" from 2012 And that little future bit at the end made me chuckle... its now been 4 years and nothing. Oh wait.. they removed a tool.
Eve suffers a lot from the "Muh ISK/Stats" brigade. Anything not 100 for furthering min-maxing of ISK or stats is "brigaded" against in the forums as to make it look unpopular. We see the running joke about "content" when referring to blanket decs, ganks, and at times, World War Bee. But in reality, it's the players who kill content by freaking out whenever the developers think aloud regarding anything other than vacuuming ISK and/or "getting kills".
There used to be novels and chronicles about the game...even things like "live events". But someone might get disturbed from their min-maxxing and we can't have that.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Elliniel Anat'al'Ardon
Hallowed Antiquity
0
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 09:44:35 -
[135] - Quote
So, basically, you point out how mass war-declarations aren't the true way of the merc, but in the same sentence you whine on how you have to actually do the work to get paid?
Puhleeeze, stop.
That's what being a mercenary is all about. You get paid to do something. How you accomplish that is well.. shortly put, your problem once you get assurances of payment or payment up front.
Maybe, just maybe, since you're not a common street thug, hugging a gate and shooting anything coming through, to raise your prices for your highly skilled assasination services. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15992
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 10:12:11 -
[136] - Quote
Elliniel Anat'al'Ardon wrote:So, basically, you point out how mass war-declarations aren't the true way of the merc, but in the same sentence you whine on how you have to actually do the work to get paid?
Puhleeeze, stop.
That's what being a mercenary is all about. You get paid to do something. How you accomplish that is well.. shortly put, your problem once you get assurances of payment or payment up front.
Maybe, just maybe, since you're not a common street thug, hugging a gate and shooting anything coming through, to raise your prices for your highly skilled assasination services. i told the last numbnuts who said that to go try and do a focused war in empire , he did , then he came back and posted this.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2131
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 10:22:28 -
[137] - Quote
Elliniel Anat'al'Ardon wrote:So, basically, you point out how mass war-declarations aren't the true way of the merc, but in the same sentence you whine on how you have to actually do the work to get paid?
Puhleeeze, stop.
That's what being a mercenary is all about. You get paid to do something. How you accomplish that is well.. shortly put, your problem once you get assurances of payment or payment up front.
Maybe, just maybe, since you're not a common street thug, hugging a gate and shooting anything coming through, to raise your prices for your highly skilled assasination services.
Oh puhleeeze.
Did you name your character in a vain attempt to deter people from running locates? Just curious.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1783
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:03:21 -
[138] - Quote
I'm just curious: how does it happen that mercs have contract and have no ideas where their targets are? Isn't it part of contract to give you some information about targets?
The way i see it: - i want someone to be hurt by mercs. Why i care? Maybe they run missions here? Maybe they mined out all the ice? In any case they ARE HERE and i want them to not BE HERE. - i contract mercs and pay them for getting this someone out of HERE - mercs instantly know: their target is HERE. They sent scouts and from now it's their job to track their targets
What do i miss? People paying for killing random corp they found in corp finder so they actually have no ideas who and where are these people? I believe in any case if you pay your money for someone's head this someone should be somehow present in vicinity.
Thanks
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Dom Arkaral
Kiss. Kill. Destroy.
455
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:07:20 -
[139] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:I'm just curious: how does it happen that mercs have contract and have no ideas where their targets are? Isn't it part of contract to give you some information about targets?
The way i see it: - i want someone to be hurt by mercs. Why i care? Maybe they run missions here? Maybe they mined out all the ice? In any case they ARE HERE and i want them to not BE HERE. - i contract mercs and pay them for getting this someone out of HERE - mercs instantly know: their target is HERE. They sent scouts and from now it's their job to track their targets
What do i miss? People paying for killing random corp they found in corp finder so they actually have no ideas who and where are these people? I believe in any case if you pay your money for someone's head this someone should be somehow present in vicinity.
Thanks Most contracts are hub/pipe denial nowadays So they're doing their work properly..
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1783
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:10:38 -
[140] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote: Most contracts are hub/pipe denial nowadays So they're doing their work properly..
in this case you don't need to find your targets - you just DENY they hub/route (kill them when they try to use it)
However the thread started from: 'sending scouts 100+ systems to find him and not knowing whether he is even online or not'.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:26:56 -
[141] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:I'm just curious: how does it happen that mercs have contract and have no ideas where their targets are? Isn't it part of contract to give you some information about targets?
The way i see it: - i want someone to be hurt by mercs. Why i care? Maybe they run missions here? Maybe they mined out all the ice? In any case they ARE HERE and i want them to not BE HERE. - i contract mercs and pay them for getting this someone out of HERE - mercs instantly know: their target is HERE. They sent scouts and from now it's their job to track their targets
What do i miss? People paying for killing random corp they found in corp finder so they actually have no ideas who and where are these people? I believe in any case if you pay your money for someone's head this someone should be somehow present in vicinity.
Thanks
In highsec most corporations and alliances are not based out of one specific area. They are all over the place. Hiding in every corner of space.
I've had employers coming to me because they need their targets to hurt, not moved out of an area.. or denied a hub. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15996
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:39:55 -
[142] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:I'm just curious: how does it happen that mercs have contract and have no ideas where their targets are? Isn't it part of contract to give you some information about targets?
The way i see it: - i want someone to be hurt by mercs. Why i care? Maybe they run missions here? Maybe they mined out all the ice? In any case they ARE HERE and i want them to not BE HERE. - i contract mercs and pay them for getting this someone out of HERE - mercs instantly know: their target is HERE. They sent scouts and from now it's their job to track their targets
What do i miss? People paying for killing random corp they found in corp finder so they actually have no ideas who and where are these people? I believe in any case if you pay your money for someone's head this someone should be somehow present in vicinity.
Thanks yeah you are sortof right, we usually have a broad idea where to look to begin with this is all well and good for the first maybe day or so, basically up untill they twig we arent the typical hubhumping degenerates , sometimes they do their research but not often. anyway after we abruptly take advantage of the initial complacency they usually
a) move b) drop corp or c) go inactive
mostly we see a corp do all three so we have a mix of inactives, nomads and dec dogers and because there is no particular reason for anyone to stay in one particular place in empire we quickly and invariably are left with anything from entire regions to literally the whole of empire look through, for a handful of lads that -might- be playing the game.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1783
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 13:55:21 -
[143] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:March rabbit wrote:I'm just curious: how does it happen that mercs have contract and have no ideas where their targets are? Isn't it part of contract to give you some information about targets?
The way i see it: - i want someone to be hurt by mercs. Why i care? Maybe they run missions here? Maybe they mined out all the ice? In any case they ARE HERE and i want them to not BE HERE. - i contract mercs and pay them for getting this someone out of HERE - mercs instantly know: their target is HERE. They sent scouts and from now it's their job to track their targets
What do i miss? People paying for killing random corp they found in corp finder so they actually have no ideas who and where are these people? I believe in any case if you pay your money for someone's head this someone should be somehow present in vicinity.
Thanks yeah you are sortof right, we usually have a broad idea where to look to begin with this is all well and good for the first maybe day or so, basically up untill they twig we arent the typical hubhumping degenerates , sometimes they do their research but not often. anyway after we abruptly take advantage of the initial complacency they usually a) move b) drop corp or c) go inactive mostly we see a corp do all three so we have a mix of inactives, nomads and dec dogers and because there is no particular reason for anyone to stay in one particular place in empire we quickly and invariably are left with anything from entire regions to literally the whole of empire look through, for a handful of lads that -might- be playing the game. Ok. Thanks.
But what you describe shows that you already disrupted their activities in particular area. Isn't it enough for contract? Do you really HAVE TO follow your targets after that?
Or in general terms: what people usually pay for?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
110
|
Posted - 2016.05.26 14:40:38 -
[144] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Ok. Thanks.
But what you describe shows that you already disrupted their activities in particular area. Isn't it enough for contract? Do you really HAVE TO follow your targets after that?
Or in general terms: what people usually pay for?
They usually pay to rake kills and harass their targets unto submission. If the mercs don't get kills because the targets stopped loggin in, then clients are usually fine with it. It IS a ISK loss that the mercs inflict, though indirectly.
Having the wardecced corp/alliance continuing their activities undisturbed by getting nomadic in out of the way corners of space is what pisses the client off.
Except that we now don't know if they are being nomadic or just offline. You could hunt them when you knew they were at least online. Nobody got the ressources or time or inclination to log in dozens of alts and camp logged off targets 24/7 in hope they gonna log in.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
19
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 12:12:13 -
[145] - Quote
The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
283
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 13:47:19 -
[146] - Quote
Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Its after the war has started the issue begins, they all scatter and not follow usual habits. Sending them a convo before your start hunt them is like.. "hey, I'm gonna come for you now" and the target docks or log. And yeah.. I would love to sit and constantly convo 100+ people over and over, in case someone logs on. *sarcasm*
Yes there are ways to check if online or not. The thing is that even with the watchlist the work involved with hunting burned out players. Now we are left with a huge amount of extra work, mindnumbing one at that. |
Negasonic Teenage Warhead
State War Academy Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 13:57:21 -
[147] - Quote
Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Thanks for your input, Liam. We appreciate your service. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
114
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 14:17:53 -
[148] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Its after the war has started the issue begins, they all scatter and not follow usual habits. Sending them a convo before your start hunt them is like.. "hey, I'm gonna come for you now" and the target docks or log. And yeah.. I would love to sit and constantly convo 100+ people over and over, in case someone logs on. *sarcasm*Yes there are ways to check if online or not. The thing is that even with the watchlist the work involved with hunting burned out players. Now we are left with a huge amount of extra work, mindnumbing one at that. I've know long time, excellent players become campers over time because it was so much less work and generate more easy kills than actually zipping all over the place to run Locators and actually scout an known online target.
It was already time consuming with the Watchlist. I was looking at my merc comrades raking nice and sometimes juicy kills on Jita gate or trade pipes while I was working my ass off to hunt, and hopefully, get a nice kill or two.
Now it is inordinately more difficult and time consuming. Almost nobody does it anymore.
CCP removed Watchlist to cater to supercap pilots, and shat on everyone else.
Edit: And no, it was not on this character, KB stats won't tell you anything.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
20
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 15:50:04 -
[149] - Quote
There's a number of ways to do this. DracVlad made some good suggestions. It makes me think of the U/C lists I get daily of vehicles suspected of carrying VBIEDs or insurgents. If MERC groups are serious about it, I'm interested.
First I'd ask:
1) What is your Merc Group Corporation Name?
2) What areas of Space do you operate in?
3) Can you work with other Corporations? |
Exaido
Fire Over Light
20
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 15:54:41 -
[150] - Quote
Negasonic Teenage Warhead wrote:Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Thanks for your input, Liam. We appreciate your service.
You're welcome! |
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
20
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 16:08:29 -
[151] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Its after the war has started the issue begins, they all scatter and not follow usual habits. Sending them a convo before your start hunt them is like.. "hey, I'm gonna come for you now" and the target docks or log. And yeah.. I would love to sit and constantly convo 100+ people over and over, in case someone logs on. *sarcasm*Yes there are ways to check if online or not. The thing is that even with the watchlist the work involved with hunting burned out players. Now we are left with a huge amount of extra work, mindnumbing one at that.
I don't disagree that pings to 100 people is inefficient and made more so if you don't know the organization structure; if you know that then you target 10 people in the corporation Fleet Commanders, CEOs, Directors etc. I'm asking questions to try to be helpful.
1) Are you usually working in defense or offense? (Defense being party War'Dec'd and Offense being party Declaring)
2) Are your clients generally repeat clients?
3) How many engagements are planned and how many are reactive; someone got upset in local or ganked on a gate and declared a war in retaliation?
If you don't want to answer here, you can email if you want. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16009
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 16:20:49 -
[152] - Quote
its more than inefficient, its soul crushingly tedious, awkward in the extreme and utterly and stupidly bad practice for the intended purpose.
not to mention likely to be patched out at a moments notice.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1567
|
Posted - 2016.05.27 16:40:36 -
[153] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:its more than inefficient, its soul crushingly tedious, awkward in the extreme and utterly and stupidly bad practice for the intended purpose.
not to mention likely to be patched out at a moments notice. Such is life, like joining Devil's Mumble and when you leave you feel like you just got a contact high and your soul now has a debt of some crap.... or I've drank too much beer and this was all a dream.
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 15:02:30 -
[154] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Solonius Rex wrote: Any ideas?
Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that Or better yet, locator agents tell you if they are online or not, and if not, when they were last online.
^^^^^^ This, at the very least.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 15:21:36 -
[155] - Quote
My guess is CCP has their economist looking at the financials and they are trying everything possible to push everyone to low/null sec but all of these efforts are just pushing people out completely, or are they?
I see groups leaving the merc business, but are they leaving the game? CCP knows that EVE is easily addicting and while such a game requires a great deal of time investment most aren't willing to easily walk away from, it becomes a relationship of "thank you sir, may I have another!".
I find it odd though that when looking at the player base numbers over the years on a site (Sorry, I can't remember the name), it does in fact appear that EVE's player base is falling, yes CCP continues thwarting all efforts for High Sec engagement in favor of pushing players where many dont want to be. Forcing players to do anything in a "sandbox" environment isn't quite a theme park, but almost a linear experience in some ways.
"Start here to achieve A" "Go here to achieve B" "Finish out your days here"
I would really like to see some fruitful changes to High Sec Merc efforts as in all of the various things I've done, this is the life I most want to excel in as its not easy, hard work but also very exciting. From the looks of things, however, I don't see this getting much better.
Many great and valid points in this thread though.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16111
|
Posted - 2016.06.02 15:53:23 -
[156] - Quote
The change in question was a rushed one, CCP Foxfour opened up the api to allow third party sites such as "set them red" to add contacts to watchlist directly,for a short time it was all kinds of broken, ctrl-v + enter = comprehensive watchlist.
This was done knowingly to force the previously put-on-the-longfinger issue* with the rest of the devs, The first we heard about it here was a photo of a powerpoint slide, with no blog, feedback thred or even dev comment we did essentially what we always do as a community when something like this happens .... Put our pants on our heads, set them on fire and ran around screaming because we as mercenaries were going to be left with hub humping in sebod lokis and legions.
This was clearly a forced issue with little to no consideration on the effect it would have on waging war in empire and we have been very vocal on the topic since
*this information comes courtesy of captn morgan CCP Foxfour @ evedublin.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 12:46:43 -
[157] - Quote
Exaido wrote:A bunch of stuff... If all you want is to make the target inactive in an area for a week, and you don't care about them being killed wherever they run off to, you do not need a merc corp. Just declare war yourself, with whatever pitiful excuse for an industrial corp you happen to have. 99.9% of high sec corps have gotten so paranoid about constant "traps" that they don't even care who or what the war is coming from, they'll still disband/scatter/go inactive to avoid it. |
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
202
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 18:52:47 -
[158] - Quote
Hello Nerds and Devils and every other Merc on this thread,
Come to Low Sec, no bullshit.
You are all old and rich and absolutely wasted in high sec. Put those 100+ Million SP toons into ships and come to a place where everyone is a war target. Stop worrying about your killboards. Any group of you could come carve out some space for yourselves in low and keep the content train moving. The mechanics are different and the targets are many but I can assure you the content is there. Live dangerous for a while.
I'll gladly take on any Devil or other merc that wishes to try Low sec and see how it feels. Dust off those capitals and Black Ops you never get to use and come kill internet spaceships.
-Badman
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Tengu Grib
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
1527
|
Posted - 2016.06.08 19:45:56 -
[159] - Quote
Badman Lasermouse wrote:Hello Nerds and Devils and every other Merc on this thread,
Come to Low Sec, no bullshit.
You are all old and rich and absolutely wasted in high sec. Put those 100+ Million SP toons into ships and come to a place where everyone is a war target. Stop worrying about your killboards. Any group of you could come carve out some space for yourselves in low and keep the content train moving. The mechanics are different and the targets are many but I can assure you the content is there. Live dangerous for a while.
I'll gladly take on any Devil or other merc that wishes to try Low sec and see how it feels. Dust off those capitals and Black Ops you never get to use and come kill internet spaceships.
I'm flying with Rabble right now. If I get irritated enough with constant moving and Sov BS I'll probably come to low sec. I don't have the time to get spies into WT corps and figure out if and when they might be online so I can maybe track them down and hope they don't notice I'm coming so I can have a chance and perhaps killing them.
Until the rest of the new structures come out HS is a stagnant waste land for small scale war decs. Hoping that changes.
Rabble Rabble Rabble
Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
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VegasMirage
Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction.
1603
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 10:49:22 -
[160] - Quote
With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun?
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 17:39:54 -
[161] - Quote
It seems to me the Merc need to depend more on good old fashion networking, information trading and tracking. What do I mean?
You could try spreading each other out to track longer distances without having 1 person do the job. (Not the most profitable way, but that isn-¦t the point in this case).
You could consider trading information with the corp members, pay a small fee to have someone inform you if someone is online.
You could track down buying and selling activity in the area their chosen corp has their trading hub.
You can do a lot of things outside of the intended game mechanic, which you normally would do in real life too.
I would consider adapting and thinking differently than what Merc used to do.
The key approach for Merc is information. So how can you get the information and how do you know it is accurate? How do you react in time once you have the information? Do you need to spread out a few jumps as a group? Do you need to pay more than one person in different timezone to figure out a pattern?
I think that is more exciting than the buddy list. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
309
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:19:10 -
[162] - Quote
Razor Axe wrote:It seems to me the Merc need to depend more on good old fashion networking, information trading and tracking. What do I mean?
You could try spreading each other out to track longer distances without having 1 person do the job. (Not the most profitable way, but that isn-¦t the point in this case).
You could consider trading information with the corp members, pay a small fee to have someone inform you if someone is online.
You could track down buying and selling activity in the area their chosen corp has their trading hub.
You can do a lot of things outside of the intended game mechanic, which you normally would do in real life too.
I would consider adapting and thinking differently than what Merc used to do.
The key approach for Merc is information. So how can you get the information and how do you know it is accurate? How do you react in time once you have the information? Do you need to spread out a few jumps as a group? Do you need to pay more than one person in different timezone to figure out a pattern?
I think that is more exciting than the buddy list. So.. what experience do you have with highsec warfare?
The point is that Devils did do the hard work, with the watchlist. While most other merc groups did not bother. Even with the Watchlist hunting burned out players... Guess what making it harder will do? |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
122
|
Posted - 2016.06.12 21:20:26 -
[163] - Quote
As a concept it isn't a bad idea, and to a point it is already happening (from time to time) when mercs work together against a common enemy.
However, practically speaking, it is undoable, as each merc group already have to try and deal with finding their own targets (which consume a great deal of time) you can't really do the other's job on top of it. Consider the time to add all teh otehr's mercs wars as contact for your own scouts for example. And you can only get so many contacts added to your Buddylist (how I hate that name).
Also consider: Want to turn all mercs into a giant blue donut coalition that all scratch each other's back?
And to finish, lets be fair: I did in the past sent mail or convo fellow mercs and worked to offer random intel out of courtesy (many of us do) when we stumble on something.
But. Selfishly, if I find someone, under wardec, flying a purple fit BS and running missions whom I'm not at war with myself, I'm bloody ceratin to wardec the git and get the fat loot for myself, mmm?
Lord Razpataz wrote:Even with the Watchlist hunting burned out players... Guess what making it harder will do? Yeah.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 09:18:14 -
[164] - Quote
Both are fair points and I respect that we all value our time.
I do think that it can be a turn off if it takes a lot of effort and time to hunt down a prey, I mean I used to love going into my stealth ship and tracking down players myself. I was however dependant on buying information, spies and email messages than the "buddy list".
If we are to discuss game mechanics rather than meta mechanics, in other words "What can CCP do inside the game itself?" rather than "What can we do in terms of real life/real time to have fun?" I do have one particular idea I would implement to make it fun for Merc again. It would still require information trading, scanning and other meta mechanic and such.
So what would I suggest instead of bringing back what was removed?
I would probably take advantage of npc standing and also corporation owned regions by having an npc in the stations, meant for bounty hunters/mercs who have a licence to be one. They would get access to an NPC who they can pay to recieve information on a players general visit within a region.
So, this can be done in many ways but to give a simplified idea. You could visit Hek and pay the NPC x5 amount of ISK to know if Razor Axe has been in the region the last hour/login/logg off. If Razor Axe logged off [Insert station] within the Metropolis Region, the npc would inform that Razor Axe is still within the region, docked (which means either logged off or docked).
If the player pays x10 amount of ISK the bounty hunter/merc will get a narrowed down search, such as "Razor Axe is in a station that is 8 jumps away". This would help narrow down the search area.
If the merc/bounty hunter has good standing or the corp owns the region so to speak, they get access to VIP service, which is A) cheaper prices mentioned above and B) the last 10 jumps/station docks for the player.
This introduces a more deduction gameplay which obviously requires you to be good at deduction (sudoku is a deduction game). You then analyze your information and narrow down your search, and jump towards where you think the target might be.
This is the same suggestion as above, only a mechanic and NPC based on. This would also ensure ISK flow out and in for Merc in terms of cost, in exchange for speeding up and simplifying the search.
Mind you, I suggest this only happens per region and that the prices vary depending on the range. And that it requires a bounty hunter/merc license being introduced which is paid monthly to keep. This is to ensure that there is a "high" cost for using the service so it doesn't become too cheap/free or even easy to hunt ANYONE. This being the main disadvantage or troll weakness in my idea. Which is easy to solve in the long run but that is the general idea I introduce to bring back the excitement and helpful tools for hunting people.
It could be like a NPC in the BAR. It fits old school lore, real life and makes sense that there are npc selling this information.
To make it a bit harder for the one who is running away, if they know they are being hunted. They can do the opposite by reducing the information or paying to give wrong information. So this become a game of cat and mouse in general depending on the details of the mechanic and how complex/unique it would be to give merc/bounty or information gatherers a fun game mechanic to create new meta mechanic from.
Thoughts? |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2906
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 10:44:48 -
[165] - Quote
I know you put quite a bit of thought into that, but it seems like it's far more complicated than it needs to be. You're talking about introducing a whole new set of interdependencies and mechanics, where simply fixing locator agents to return an 'outside of sphere of influence' result for offline characters achieves the same result but with less whistles and bells.
Generally not a super idea to make something more complicated than it has to be, as each added new shiny thing is another thing to go wrong during implementation.
Just my two ISK
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 10:55:57 -
[166] - Quote
Fair enough but the game is still a sandbox game and like most sandbox games it does require us to invent methods to play in the way we want. I don't think it is a big problem if merc/hunters see if someone is online, they would still have to track them down. But anything more than that, even what I suggested is bringing it very close to "too easy" to hunt people. Just like mining is boring for many, be it due to it's simplicity or lack of interactivity. I do think merc/hunting is the opposite, it takes perhaps too much time and energy?
Then again I do station trading and it requires a lot of time, effort and real life resources to do it on a high level. So from that perspective I am not sure which "career" is hard, easy or time consuming. It seems to me that the majority of people invested in a career will have similar opinion if their career was affected in such a way.
In light of this, it is hard to justify even my own opinion or suggestion. But I am sure with a regular conversation between hunters/merc and those who are victim, there could be a fruitful solution that benefit both parties.
Initially, my main suggestion is that it should be engaging and fun to hunt, difficult but not tedious or impossible. A little time consuming but not a time sink. And the same goes for the ones being hunted, it should be an excitement being hunted, avoiding and tricking the merc/hunters. It shoulnd't be annoying and frustraing to be hunted.
That is where I think the challenge is, as often in games the solution tend to favor the majority who does A but not the ones doing B. I love stealth in general, in games but making it too easy/powerful would have negative consequences for other people playstyle.
Not sure if that made sense, I do see the perspective of everyone but after 11 year of coming and going into Eve. I find every career with their own challenges in the same arena such as time sink, too long and so on. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
309
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 11:18:43 -
[167] - Quote
For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? |
Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 16:44:51 -
[168] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that?
I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting.
This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion.
However, the focus of this discussion should be around:
A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort?
These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16295
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 17:00:41 -
[169] - Quote
A) un**** wars B) un**** locators C) what we do everynight pinky , **** up everything within eyeshot.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 17:05:48 -
[170] - Quote
Razor Axe wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting. This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion. However, the focus of this discussion should be around: A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort? These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective.
So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day..
But anywho.. the focus of the discussion should be that CCP does not acknowledge that it is an issue. The watchlist changed with no thought about other areas of use than for hunting Titans/supers. "The character watchlist is now known as the 'Buddy List' to better reflect its usage"
With removing a tool without replacing with another tool kills that kind of gameplay.
We have been waiting for 3 months now since CCP Lebowski told us we would get a respons on our feedback.
The easiest way to fix this.. bring back the watchlist and tie it to wardec mechanics. Then we are actually paying for the intel. the defender should also have watchlist available ofc. |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1747
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 17:27:53 -
[171] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Razor Axe wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting. This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion. However, the focus of this discussion should be around: A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort? These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective. So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day.. But anywho.. the focus of the discussion should be that CCP does not acknowledge that it is an issue. The watchlist changed with no thought about other areas of use than for hunting Titans/supers. "The character watchlist is now known as the 'Buddy List' to better reflect its usage" With removing a tool without replacing with another tool kills that kind of gameplay. We have been waiting for 3 months now since CCP Lebowski told us we would get a respons on our feedback. The easiest way to fix this.. bring back the watchlist and tie it to wardec mechanics. Then we are actually paying for the intel. the defender should also have watchlist available ofc.
But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
311
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 17:41:40 -
[172] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix"
But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1751
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 18:45:00 -
[173] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Dracvlad wrote: But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix" But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this.
I find their failure to talk to you very surprising, I just hope they go with what I keep suggesting because it is a content driver, but CCP tend to listen only to the big alliances and have neglected hisec and small entities for ages and I believe will continue to do so, as this silence seems to indicate.
I have heard talk about the impact on local by the new Observatory structures and that is going to cause some upset.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
319
|
Posted - 2016.06.14 17:46:21 -
[174] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix" But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this. I find their failure to talk to you very surprising, I just hope they go with what I keep suggesting because it is a content driver, but CCP tend to listen only to the big alliances and have neglected hisec and small entities for ages and I believe will continue to do so, as this silence seems to indicate. I have heard talk about the impact on local by the new Observatory structures and that is going to cause some upset. Well, I'm definitely getting the silent treatment.
Lets see.. I've tried the eve forums, twitter and even personal messages on slack with no luck. Havent touched reddit tho, but feel like thats no point with the downvoting thing.
What to do next? Give up? **** no... I have more patience than this
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2563
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 07:54:03 -
[175] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day...
Maybe include the expected cost of locates into the negotiated cost of the wardec based on the size of target corp/alliance?
Everything that's been brought up in this thread can be solved by simply charging the client more money. Besides- if you don't want to track down targets- don't. There's plenty of business defending citadels, attacking citadels, bashing highsec POSes, trade hub denial (how this is still a thing i'll never understand), and general harassment contracts available. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
324
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 08:39:15 -
[176] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day... Maybe include the expected cost of locates into the negotiated cost of the wardec based on the size of target corp/alliance? Everything that's been brought up in this thread can be solved by simply charging the client more money. Besides- if you don't want to track down targets- don't. There's plenty of business defending citadels, attacking citadels, bashing highsec POSes, trade hub denial (how this is still a thing i'll never understand), and general harassment contracts available.
The answer for everything is not charging more of the client.. its 42.
Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out.
And to be fair.. with hubhumping enteties takes on contracts for just above dec cost, just to have more "free" wars. Raising the cost is not an option, even before watchlist we "asked to much" and lost clients due to that.
Edit: And if you didnt know.. the quote you posted is what we did BEFORE the change.. now that we dont know who's online.. we basicly have to run even more. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16327
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 08:56:47 -
[177] - Quote
charging the client more isk dosent solve anything, if cost were the issue we wouldnt be having a conversation at all because we would be rolling around in contracts being the specialist kill-the-gits-where-they-hide mercenarys. That would be worth the isk hit out of my own pocket.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 09:32:32 -
[178] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out.
Perhaps it's time to murder spaceships outside of highsec then?
It costs significantly less, has better fights, and you can pretty much shoot everyone. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
324
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 09:47:17 -
[179] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out. Perhaps it's time to murder spaceships outside of highsec then? It costs significantly less, has better fights, and you can pretty much shoot everyone. Bah.. Not sure how many times I've heard that by now..
"Your gameplay broken? no worries mine still works. Why dont you do that?"
It does'nt change the fact that CCP killed an emergent gameplay.
Let me ask, would that have been a solution when Fozzie sov came out and everyone in 0.0 was bitching about troll ceptors? Just do something else? Give up? |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 16:15:26 -
[180] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:
It does'nt change the fact that CCP killed an emergent gameplay.
Let me ask, would that have been a solution when Fozzie sov came out and everyone in 0.0 was bitching about troll ceptors? Just do something else? Give up?
Killing people in highsec isn't 'emergent gameplay', it's killing people in Highsec.
Sorry that a good change towards watch lists, that kills the opportunity for fights is preventing you from killing mission runners. You said the effort wasn't worth it anymore, I just suggested trying something else. |
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Dom Arkaral
Kiss. Kill. Destroy. Section.Nine
495
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 16:18:36 -
[181] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:
It does'nt change the fact that CCP killed an emergent gameplay.
Let me ask, would that have been a solution when Fozzie sov came out and everyone in 0.0 was bitching about troll ceptors? Just do something else? Give up?
Killing people in highsec isn't ' emergent gameplay', it's killing people in Highsec. Sorry that a good change towards watch lists, that kills the opportunity for fights is preventing you from killing mission runners. You said the effort wasn't worth it anymore, I just suggested trying something else. if Quote:Killing people in highsec isn't '[i]emergent gameplay then neither is killing in any other area of space hahaaha
weren't you PL guys hunting supercaps and titans with the watchlist btw?
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 16:28:34 -
[182] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:weren't you PL guys hunting supercaps and titans with the watchlist btw?
Yes. People also had free intel on if/when our supers or titans had logged in as well.
I'm not sure you understand what 'emergent gameplay' means. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
328
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 16:31:20 -
[183] - Quote
Xolve wrote:I'm not sure you understand what 'emergent gameplay' means. Well.. explain it to us then. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 17:23:22 -
[184] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Xolve wrote:I'm not sure you understand what 'emergent gameplay' means. Well.. explain it to us then.
Here you go. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
329
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 17:26:47 -
[185] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Xolve wrote:I'm not sure you understand what 'emergent gameplay' means. Well.. explain it to us then. Here you go. But have you read the results?
First hit: "Emergent gameplay refers to complex situations in video games, board games, or table top role-playing games that emerge from the interaction of relatively simple game mechanics"
"Simple game mechanics", would in this case be the watchlist, right?
Edit: I see you added to your post.. Your examples would be more "Unintentional emergence".. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 17:42:53 -
[186] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Your examples would be more "Unintentional emergence"..
"Intentional emergence occurs when some creative uses of the game are intended by the game designers"
I stand corrected, however- semantics over a gameplay definition aren't really going to help you adapt to the current circumstances. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
330
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 17:48:58 -
[187] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Your examples would be more "Unintentional emergence"..
"Intentional emergence occurs when some creative uses of the game are intended by the game designers" I stand corrected, however- semantics over a gameplay definition aren't really going to help you adapt to the current circumstances.
Well.. to be fair, you started the talk about gameplay definition. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2667
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 17:25:46 -
[188] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Lets see.. I've tried the eve forums, twitter and even personal messages on slack with no luck. Havent touched reddit tho, but feel like thats no point with the downvoting thing. What to do next? Give up? **** no... I have more patience than this Mustn't....must....resist...
Must...be....strong...
Must...
RAZ I LOVE YOU BB COME JOIN US NAOW **** HISEC I WILL **** YOU SO HARD BB BRING TEARZ AND VEN TOO WE HAVE GREAT TREATZ AND SHEWT GOONS AND FLY CAPS AND GIRLS AND 420 BLAZE IT AND SLEIPNIRS AND AVERY MISSES YOU TOO AND SUPERS AND DANK IRC CHATS AND LOOKING DOWN ON PEASANTS FROM OUR TRUMP CITADELS AND ******** AND DEEP ****** FOREVER!
Would you like to know more?
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Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
215
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 18:40:53 -
[189] - Quote
In high sec when the care-bears cried about wardecs we were to first to scream "Adapt or die".
So do it, you may have to leave the old comfort zone but many have and still continue to be successful.
-Badman
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Argus Enigmatus
Stardust Heavy Industries ChaosTheory.
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:01:14 -
[190] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Xolve wrote:I'm not sure you understand what 'emergent gameplay' means. Well.. explain it to us then. [However, there's still a dozen things people will pay you to do in HighSec (since you're so adamant on staying there)- just remember that they're hiring YOU to do tedious and often boring things and your return is a negotiated payment. If potential clients are questioning your prices, maybe it's on you to make yourself more marketable.
Well they woud have more options to do things in high Sec...
But with every other so called merc alliance in eve on the own blue list....
in my eyes
its their own fault that they dont get more Work
at the end they all arnt available for porper work cause o no but your called target is on the blue list.. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16387
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:18:57 -
[191] - Quote
We arent getting work because we arent soliciting for any numbnuts.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Argus Enigmatus
Stardust Heavy Industries ChaosTheory.
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:31:44 -
[192] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin
taht was not direceted at you
i highly respect that you took the way of moving on since there is no viable work ...
and you are not willing to be a griefer , ganker what else...
what earns my highest respect..
it is just a short overview about the rest of the so called merc's
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16388
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:34:30 -
[193] - Quote
No worries.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Valkin Mordirc
2129
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:35:57 -
[194] - Quote
Argus Enigmatus wrote:
griefer
lol
#DeleteTheWeak
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2270
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:45:03 -
[195] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Argus Enigmatus wrote:
griefer
lol
The mere thought of ganking someone makes us very sad. Isn't that right Ralph?
It's not something we've ever considered.
****ing griefers.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2270
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:46:41 -
[196] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:We arent getting work because we arent soliciting for any numbnuts.
Well, he says that, but I regularly come home from the pub to find his fishnet clad leg waving suggestively out of a porthole.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16389
|
Posted - 2016.06.17 22:48:24 -
[197] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Argus Enigmatus wrote:
griefer
lol The mere thought of ganking someone makes us very sad. Isn't that right Ralph? It's not something we've ever considered. ****ing griefers. Down with that sort of thing!
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 16:33:36 -
[198] - Quote
Though the answer might not be what you are looking for, Team Five 0 have replied to the original feedback thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6550198#post6550198
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
|
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7819
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 16:46:35 -
[199] - Quote
Well there you go.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7819
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 16:48:04 -
[200] - Quote
Argus Enigmatus wrote: Ralph King-Griffin
taht was not direceted at you
i highly respect that you took the way of moving on since there is no viable work ...
and you are not willing to be a griefer , ganker what else...
what earns my highest respect..
it is just a short overview about the rest of the so called merc's
Ralph is going to peddle radioactive baby food in Jita and he's going to do it in a Kestrel.
That's my best guess.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
|
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2603
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 17:29:13 -
[201] - Quote
This pleases me. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16569
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 17:30:15 -
[202] - Quote
Cheers for the update Lebowski.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
127
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 17:36:58 -
[203] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Argus Enigmatus wrote: Ralph King-Griffin
taht was not direceted at you
i highly respect that you took the way of moving on since there is no viable work ...
and you are not willing to be a griefer , ganker what else...
what earns my highest respect..
it is just a short overview about the rest of the so called merc's
Ralph is going to peddle radioactive baby food in Jita and he's going to do it in a Kestrel. That's my best guess. Just another nail in Devil's coffin, and many others. [sigh]
Thanks for the answer nonetheless.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7821
|
Posted - 2016.07.01 19:58:41 -
[204] - Quote
Rawmeat Mary wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Argus Enigmatus wrote: Ralph King-Griffin
taht was not direceted at you
i highly respect that you took the way of moving on since there is no viable work ...
and you are not willing to be a griefer , ganker what else...
what earns my highest respect..
it is just a short overview about the rest of the so called merc's
Ralph is going to peddle radioactive baby food in Jita and he's going to do it in a Kestrel. That's my best guess. Just another nail in Devil's coffin, and many others. [sigh] Thanks for the answer nonetheless.
Well mercs have always been a part of Eve and here's to hope that CCP is going to find some way to preserve and improve the merc "lifestyle" (that's what I'll call it).
So from this point, what could be done? Total revamp? Some ways to improve? Are there any mercs on the CSM who would know their stuff? Will there be any left before the next CSM election? (I'm not trying to put too much stock in the power that the CSM has but they do have the ear of the devs at least)
Oh well.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
354
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 12:54:35 -
[205] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Well mercs have always been a part of Eve and here's to hope that CCP is going to find some way to preserve and improve the merc "lifestyle" (that's what I'll call it).
So from this point, what could be done? Total revamp? Some ways to improve? Are there any mercs on the CSM who would know their stuff? Will there be any left before the next CSM election? (I'm not trying to put too much stock in the power that the CSM has but they do have the ear of the devs at least)
Oh well.
Its still gonna be "mercs" around in eve, how effective or focused is another thing... And.. with CCP forcing the highsec pvp'rs into the stereotypical way eve population look at highsec mercs, I dont blame people for thinking like that.
As for what could be done... total revamp seems more plausible. Another road paved with good intention... then the next fire/shiny thing comes along and we're left with half a new mechanic.
Oh.. dont get me started on the CSM, its those twats that started bitching about the watchlist in the first place. it took CCP years to listen and remove it, so I really doubt the CSM is gonna be at our rescue.
If removing watchlist was that good of a change... why did ccp wait for so long before folding? it makes no sense.
And I do have to say its kinda funny.. within 1 hour after I got CCP Guard follow me on twitter I got responses from CCP Lebowski and CCP Larrikin out of the blue, did someone got told to answer? Or just a coincident?
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
3415
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 13:53:18 -
[206] - Quote
Well, then there is only one way to counter it, Lets double the number of war decs..... Maybe that's what CCP had in mind all the time. Kill more people in highsec.
DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !
Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
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VegasMirage
Blades Of Athena Northern Coalition.
1606
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 18:28:31 -
[207] - Quote
The watch list made no sense in the first place. here's a double post... ready?
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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VegasMirage
Blades Of Athena Northern Coalition.
1606
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 18:32:44 -
[208] - Quote
nice find, says it all - leave it as is and stop whinning about this helping cap pilots... stop trying to compare yourself to a Titan pilot... you're a high sec scrub harrassing people who for the most part don't understand the game mechanics.
Now, hi sec mercs this is for you...
https://youtu.be/F-g8Pe7vrg4
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
359
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 18:41:02 -
[209] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun? This was not long ago.. in same thread, scrub :P
PS: Love you too. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2606
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 18:54:31 -
[210] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:VegasMirage wrote:With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun? This was not long ago.. in same thread, scrub :P PS: Love you too.
Sarcasm is hard |
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
359
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 18:59:04 -
[211] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:VegasMirage wrote:With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun? This was not long ago.. in same thread, scrub :P PS: Love you too. Sarcasm is hard Apparently |
VegasMirage
Blades Of Athena Northern Coalition.
1606
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 21:20:04 -
[212] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:VegasMirage wrote:With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun? This was not long ago.. in same thread, scrub :P PS: Love you too.
me? the 4-4 guy? I thot of all people you enjoyed the content generation of summers and winter past... on the other hand maybe you didn't have fun stuffing Marmite into a jar... as you know, I prefer merc on merc hairy back kinda content as opposed to the ease and smoothness of the industrialist
no more games... it's real this time!!!
|
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
361
|
Posted - 2016.07.02 22:29:06 -
[213] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:VegasMirage wrote:With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun? This was not long ago.. in same thread, scrub :P PS: Love you too. me? the 4-4 guy? I thot of all people you enjoyed the content generation of summers and winter past... on the other hand maybe you didn't have fun stuffing Marmite into a jar... as you know, I prefer merc on merc hairy back kinda content as opposed to the ease and smoothness of the industrialist
Now your actually onto something, I'm maybe not that interested in "merc on merc" or turf wars, but doing my contracts instead... like a mercenary should. And being able to do so? Regardless if the target is a merc or a carebear.
Anywho... We had some fun times in highsec Vegas, yes we did. |
Pink Cody
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 09:26:16 -
[214] - Quote
As an aside, going a lot further back in time than the buddy list change, CCP also removed the ability to see a pilots standings change data via their character information view. This used to be used in addition to locator agents to see where someone was if they were ratting/pirating etc.
Not sure many people will remember that now. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
128
|
Posted - 2016.07.03 09:36:09 -
[215] - Quote
Pink Cody wrote:As an aside, going a lot further back in time than the buddy list change, CCP also removed the ability to see a pilots standings change data via their character information view. This used to be used in addition to locator agents to see where someone was if they were ratting/pirating etc.
Not sure many people will remember that now. Many remembers, yes, and yeah it did make it easier to find out where people were missioning, and that without a Locator agent.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
|
Valterra Craven
593
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 01:35:39 -
[216] - Quote
I don't know why simple solutions to problems always seem to allude you guys, but it seems to me you already have the solution in place: locator agents. In other words, all you really need to do is have the agent say that a particular character "is too deep in cover" at the moment to be located and to try again later. That way people have a way not to be chasing ghosts, and the game isn't giving out "free intel". I don't understand why you have to ruin entire types of game play without having reasonable workarounds. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16595
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 01:50:01 -
[217] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:I don't know why simple solutions to problems always seem to allude you guys, but it seems to me you already have the solution in place: locator agents. In other words, all you really need to do is have the agent say that a particular character "is too deep in cover" at the moment to be located and to try again later. That way people have a way not to be chasing ghosts, and the game isn't giving out "free intel". I don't understand why you have to ruin entire types of game play without having reasonable workarounds. i have been saying exactly this for months on end at this point, its the most reasonable balance , still takes a metric **** ton of time to do anything more than a handfull of people and is gated behind having acess to a usefull number of available agents.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2914
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 10:51:06 -
[218] - Quote
Also, it's not like locator agents are getting much play since the change... biased, of course. I'm not keen on playing locator lottery in search of targets that may or may not be online, so I don't give them my money anymore. Especially not if I'm trying to sift through a couple hundred potential results for a winner. To me, at least, they are now a nearly useless waste of time and ISK.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Doc J
Barefist Pikey's House Renovation's
18
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 11:47:08 -
[219] - Quote
To me the answer is simple.
A corp ticks a box as being a Merc and in return they pay higher costs for war decs but get special access to a upto date panel giving info about who is signed in and where and what ship they are in and location.
Corps/ Alliances that don't tick the box as a Merc don't get this information.
Defenders receive this information automatically but are locked into being in the corp until the war dec is over. This should stop a war decced corp from joining an NPC corp. Again another example of the mechanic being somewhat overdue an overhaul. |
Dom Arkaral
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
518
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 12:00:30 -
[220] - Quote
Doc J wrote:To me the answer is simple.
A corp ticks a box as being a Merc and in return they pay higher costs for war decs but get special access to a upto date panel giving info about who is signed in and where and what ship they are in and location.
Corps/ Alliances that don't tick the box as a Merc don't get this information.
Defenders receive this information automatically but are locked into being in the corp until the war dec is over. This should stop a war decced corp from joining an NPC corp. Again another example of the mechanic being somewhat overdue an overhaul. Why would we need to know where and what ship they're flying? Surprises are the fun part of being mercs...
Knowing that the target is online is enough information to the vast majority of mercs..
Your second point about dropping corp is interesting, but it would also deny any big merc alliance member to drop and do other stuff.. which everyone ends up doing at one point.
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
|
Sucky
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2016.07.04 16:44:01 -
[221] - Quote
Bought a super. Now happy with the change and I am now a part of an elite club, truly at the pinnacle of skill at last.
Thanks guys! My real money investments (via plex of course) are now protected and I am much more likely to purchase more. Win win!
Where can we make safe and generate profit next? Ideas?
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
633
|
Posted - 2016.07.05 14:37:14 -
[222] - Quote
May I join in this discussion?
Just saw this thread thanks to Ralph-King redirecting from a thread in general, as I do not normally lurk around Crime& Punishment. That said, I find myself interested in this discussion, even sympathizing greatly with the OP's alliance ways and their goals, even if it were entirely possible that I might have been on the business end of theirs before. I find the insights into the work they do, quite fascinating. Indeed. had my introduction to EvE gone differently, it sounds like I might have worked for them. And I would have quite liked it, too, I'm sure of it. Both the pvp portion and the slow-burn of stalking and collecting information on a target are things I feel I would have thrived under.
Had things turned out differently.
But, lamenting is not what I came here to do. I couldn't help but notice a recurring theme in this thread revolved around "but wut about locator agents?" Also worth noting, is that Dev response that was linked. For reference, I shall quote relevant parts below.
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hey Space Friends,
...There are a couple of points we're not entirely happy with (such as the convo spamming issues)...that we would like to iterate on.
...We think there is some potential for the return of similar, but counterable, functionality in the future. When we have concrete designs we'll share them with you and be very interested in your feedback.
It sounds to me that Ralph's fears, "...could be patched out at any time", are well-founded. If it sees widespread or even incidental use, it's probably going to get patched.
But, I have an idea. I made an unpopular post once, and the subject as a whole does not need to be revived again. But, there's a selection from it, that I believe would moderately sate all parties involved here. Not exactly make them as happy as before, but it would satisfy several grievances AND satisfy the Dev's vague response about returning a "similar but counterable" version of the old watchlist.
Namely, locator agents need buffs, and some sort of watchlist is necessary for some gameplay styles. I'm not going to claim my old proposal is perfect or exactly what the hunters or huntees want, but it is better than what we have now, right?
Khan Wrenth wrote:Locator agents are desperately in need of an overhaul. And in my system, they would get a wide array of new buffs...so here's how I would change them.
1:) All locator agents now have unlimited range. From level one to level four, all agents can now locate anyone anywhere. Let's be honest, the level one and two agents are near useless, three may be marginally useful, but I am fairly sure people only ever use level four agents. Since you had to grind standings anyway and you pay for distance of locate, it really doesn't make sense not to use level four agents. So, we'll give all agents a huge buff so they can all be useful. This also means you don't have to do tedious grinding with local NPC's just to be able to run basic locates.
2:) With all locator agents finding people at all ranges, what is left for the level two through four agents? We are going to revamp what intel is given at what level agent. __A: Level one agents give you star system information only. __B: Level two agents tell you whether the person is docked (at what station) or if they're in space. __C: Level three agents tell you what ship the person is flying. __D: Level four agents give you access to watch list functions. For a sum of 5 million isk, they will enable you to watch 1 person per transaction, for a period of 7 days. Only works in k-space, and while undocked. Further explanation in a bit.*
Note:I know that current locates already give you docked or not (level 2 agent), but I needed levels of intel to fill four slots. I'm also open to the idea of nixing level 1 agents as listed, and just moving everything down a level so we have level 1-3 agents.[/i]
3:) Decreased search duration, decreased cooldown. Locates need to be more accessible, with how few and far between some locator agents can be. So, I'd make the search duration a mere 10 seconds or less, with no cooldown. If you want to toss a ton of isk at an agent finding out where every person of that 30-man industrial corp is, then you should be able to go for it.
Note: the search duration is probably a limitation of the software querying the database. If that isn't the case, then we need to get that turnaround time as close to zero as possible.
*So the watchlist function I mentioned would work differently. Here's how: all things in the game need counterplay. The counterplay for this version of the watchlist is this: It no longer functions as a simple "online/offline" status. It functions as an "in k-space" status. Due to working through the stargate network, it does not work in wormholes. And it does not work while a pilot is docked.
Yes, that does mean you'll have to pair the watch list function to the occasional level 2 agent locate to see if they are actually offline or simply docked up. Yes, that's still tremendously less than the old watch list. But that's still more than what you have now. And it allows people to have some measure of counterplay to the basic intel you're collecting. If you're going to try to convince CCP to bring back the watchlist in a way that has some bit of counter, as they themselves stated, I believe this is a good compromise, or at least a good starting point.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1900
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 02:12:08 -
[223] - Quote
Venturing into C&P to say I empathize with OP and friends. Buddy list hit the WH content creators hard as well. I've spent hours waiting in vain for someone I was literally just looking at, and they aren't even playing anymore. Locators are no help, obviously.
The worst part is most people in WH are spoonfed content by the scouts and don't even realize how frustrating a change it was, so they've all been rather quiet.
I very much hope that any change implemented will fix BOTH the merc use case AND the WH use case (talk of locators and observation arrays makes me nervous ). I would encourage you all to help CCP remember. We minority groups need to stick together!
o/
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
378
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 07:20:15 -
[224] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Venturing into C&P to say I empathize with OP and friends. Buddy list hit the WH content creators hard as well. I've spent hours waiting in vain for someone I was literally just looking at, and they aren't even playing anymore. Locators are no help, obviously. The worst part is most people in WH are spoonfed content by the scouts and don't even realize how frustrating a change it was, so they've all been rather quiet. I very much hope that any change implemented will fix BOTH the merc use case AND the WH use case (talk of locators and observation arrays makes me nervous ). I would encourage you all to help CCP remember. We minority groups need to stick together! o/ Hey Cara I've seen your posts and empathize with you aswell, the change had an effect on many areas of the game. I have had conversations from somewhat desperate small wh dwellers that they now have one experienced griefer harrassing them in their wh for weeks, without them having any "real" way to know if the person they suspect is watching them is online. They dont even know if he's watching them set up a trap to try and counter him.
I really dont want to tell them to "do something else"...
But imho think the worst thing affected by the buddylist change was the option to keep track if old friends or foes got back to game. I would think EVE in general is suffering quietly from this change with it first affecting minority groups then eventually the whole community.
But... having ccp admit they ****** up is a uphill battle. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
378
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 07:37:27 -
[225] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote: Namely, locator agents need buffs, and some sort of watchlist is necessary for some gameplay styles. I'm not going to claim my old proposal is perfect or exactly what the hunters or huntees want, but it is better than what we have now, right?
Anything is better at this point, atleast its something.
It seems now that CCP Lebowski wants me to send him links to ideas how to fix the buddylist issue on twitter, not sure if he's just playing along or not but... I suggested he make a dev post asking for ideas instead. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2917
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 07:55:36 -
[226] - Quote
A thought occurs, perhaps not a great one. But what about the idea of 'Watchlist Agents'? You pay them and they put a specific character on your list for a fee (recurring of course)... while you're paid up they show up. While it might not be of super great help to mercs who have hundreds of targets it would still resemble lube in a manner of speaking, as each member could shoulder a share of the burden... It strikes me as being more useful to wormholers on an individual level, and they seem to actually have gotten screwed at least as hard as we have, if not moreso by this change. I'm a tad durnk atm, so like I said it's possibly not a great idea.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7836
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 17:12:08 -
[227] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:A thought occurs, perhaps not a great one. But what about the idea of 'Watchlist Agents'? You pay them and they put a specific character on your list for a fee (recurring of course)... while you're paid up they show up. While it might not be of super great help to mercs who have hundreds of targets it would still resemble lube in a manner of speaking, as each member could shoulder a share of the burden... It strikes me as being more useful to wormholers on an individual level, and they seem to actually have gotten screwed at least as hard as we have, if not moreso by this change. I'm a tad durnk atm, so like I said it's possibly not a great idea.
Kind of like that Nate character from the movie "Heat" when he was able to tip off where Waingro was hiding.
Quote:It seems now that CCP Lebowski wants me to send him links to ideas how to fix the buddylist issue on twitter, not sure if he's just playing along or not but... I suggested he make a dev post asking for ideas instead.
I would do so out of fear that someone else (who should not) might do later on.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1909
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 17:59:52 -
[228] - Quote
What do you guys think about a delayed watchlist? Something like 3-5 minutes before it let's you know if someone logs in or out? Or alternatively don't even have a notification and just let us check online status in contacts list. Personally I dont need it automated like it was, I just need a way to check if someone I suspect logged out, did in fact log out.
How does that sit with the mercs? It should prevent super ganking because they have some time to get safe after logging in.
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16650
|
Posted - 2016.07.06 18:07:55 -
[229] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:What do you guys think about a delayed watchlist? Something like 3-5 minutes before it let's you know if someone logs in or out? Or alternatively don't even have a notification and just let us check online status in contacts list. Personally I dont need it automated like it was, I just need a way to check if someone I suspect logged out, did in fact log out.
How does that sit with the mercs? It should prevent super ganking because they have some time to get safe after logging in. 100% fine with me , i dont need to know when someone comes online, i would like to be able to check that they are before wasting an hour looking for them.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
371
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 16:52:33 -
[230] - Quote
Shitlers should not fly what they can't afford to replace... period.
... and Fozzie sov is 110% AIDS.
Thank me later :D
|
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Dom Arkaral
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
522
|
Posted - 2016.07.07 17:14:04 -
[231] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Shitlers should not fly what they can't afford to replace... period.
... and Fozzie sov is 110% AIDS.
Wat
Merc. Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester. #b4r
Gù+Montreal EVE Meet Organiser
Gù+Come talk in the ingame chan "EVE Montreal" for more info or just to chill!
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
372
|
Posted - 2016.07.08 16:43:29 -
[232] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Shitlers should not fly what they can't afford to replace... period.
... and Fozzie sov is 110% AIDS.
Wat
it was a long day at the office, and I'd only had tea, forgive me please. i think my point was that ccp is a self-licking ice cream cone of development. is that clear enough?
Thank me later :D
|
Firnas
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2016.07.26 15:41:55 -
[233] - Quote
Chandelin wrote:I understand your point regarding the watch list.
but with multiple wars changing each week just keeping up with adding them did my nut in, especially having your alt add them too.
There are a few ways I hunt them down when im at war. ( this isnt being cocky but just what I do)
1. Most corporations have a central point or if there from null and low sec a central point of entry into high sec. most chars very rarely change there path even at war so that dude you saw in that blingy ship even at war will carry on the same way.
2. ZZkill and the other one when its working are a good source of previous places of where wt have been and possibly will be.
3. Main missions hubs IE the sister have always pulled chars in no matter if there at war or not. However the clever ones evac from there and go to a mission system in the middle of nowhere. catching them on the move if your tracking them prior to war helps.
I do understand that the offline online thing is a bit of a **** but at the end of the day mercs get paid to either do hub denial or hunt the feckers down and make them cry a lil. I dont mind flying alts around trying to find war targets as sometimes you might get more that you bargained for.
Typical point I decd a corp that was already at war flying a nightmare. However after setting them red my alt was flying around and found a mack pilot who was using a orca in a diff corp. So i dec the orca corp too. I kill the mack then go back there the next day and kill the orca then the nightmare.
I would rather be flying all around eve than sitting in a station banging out locators. i myself am in a small corp and in wars its easy for people to see me online, however not any more so it does benefit me alot
Its a shame to see you go though. Fly safe to all of your alliance in what ever you do next
I was around in the golden age of merc work. I worked within REPO in the beginning, I started up Snatch Victory and I did my time there and even dabbled a bit with Noir at the end when Snatch closed.
If you think you can just drive around with alts to the various systems in Eve to find the war targets, you're having a laugh. There's quite a few.
As someone who specialised in the hunting targets for clients aspect, rather than hub camping, I can say that when someone hires you to properly hunt someone and smash them, they will eventually change their tactics, move to far off systems, do various things that they think make it harder to hunt them.
As I look into coming back into Eve, I don't see how you can track a medium sized corp of say 30 to 100 people without knowing who is online or not. They can go put a character in the middle of nowhere and still generate money and resources for the corp and you have little chance of finding them.
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Ju0ZaS
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
107
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 14:46:15 -
[234] - Quote
Yeah, I left highsec at a good time. 3-4 months later the watchlist change hit and now it's double the effort to find people. So I guess the hub camping scrublords got the final laugh.
Are you going to fight me or do you expect to bore me to death with your forum pvp?
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2395
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 15:55:18 -
[235] - Quote
I made the decision to unsub last week on all accounts. After a lot of thought it dawned on me that CCP doesn't like the color of my money. It was a sweeping, ill considered and unnecessary change to a long standing mechanic that ultimately massively negatively impacted not only my play style but that of others too.
No. You can't have my stuff. It's being buried with me.
Mort and Melvin signing off.
*shutdown jingle*
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
|
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
314
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 22:41:54 -
[236] - Quote
Ju0ZaS wrote:Yeah, I left highsec at a good time. 3-4 months later the watchlist change hit and now it's double the effort to find people. So I guess the hub camping scrublords got the final laugh.
When the going gets tough the tough get going!
And I don't mean going to null because the mechanic is too hard for you in high sec. |
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
314
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 22:42:50 -
[237] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:I made the decision to unsub last week on all accounts. After a lot of thought it dawned on me that CCP doesn't like the color of my money. It was a sweeping, ill considered and unnecessary change to a long standing mechanic that ultimately massively negatively impacted not only my play style but that of others too.
No. You can't have my stuff. It's being buried with me.
Mort and Melvin signing off.
*shutdown jingle*
You will return of that I am sure!
|
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
1107
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 03:54:26 -
[238] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:I made the decision to unsub last week on all accounts. After a lot of thought it dawned on me that CCP doesn't like the color of my money. It was a sweeping, ill considered and unnecessary change to a long standing mechanic that ultimately massively negatively impacted not only my play style but that of others too.
No. You can't have my stuff. It's being buried with me.
Mort and Melvin signing off.
*shutdown jingle* This sucks! |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions Darwinism.
45
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 10:18:24 -
[239] - Quote
All this talk of empathy.
bloody wimps, get back to shooting ships |
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
2966
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 10:24:16 -
[240] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:I made the decision to unsub last week on all accounts. After a lot of thought it dawned on me that CCP doesn't like the color of my money. It was a sweeping, ill considered and unnecessary change to a long standing mechanic that ultimately massively negatively impacted not only my play style but that of others too.
No. You can't have my stuff. It's being buried with me.
Mort and Melvin signing off.
*shutdown jingle* I unsubbed all but this account a couple of months back to Mort
Take solace in the fact it nerfed PL hunting supers somewhat and something something nullsec is all that matters right?
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
|
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Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
3012
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 23:57:21 -
[241] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:I made the decision to unsub last week on all accounts. After a lot of thought it dawned on me that CCP doesn't like the color of my money. It was a sweeping, ill considered and unnecessary change to a long standing mechanic that ultimately massively negatively impacted not only my play style but that of others too.
No. You can't have my stuff. It's being buried with me.
Mort and Melvin signing off.
*shutdown jingle* Pretty much in the same boat here. Once the timers run down for my subs I'll retire to my crypt and take a very long nap amidst my treasure piles. Then simply dream until the world changes for the better, or forever, whichever comes first.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
|
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
403
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 14:35:09 -
[242] - Quote
"As year of Inferno began, EVE's evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most "science fiction" of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as expansions went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species."
I had the "pleasure" to be around for the pre-crimewatch rut, the era of dec-shields and war-shedding. It was a time when everyone just avoided conflict at any cost. (sound familiar?) CCP did notice this and tried to fix this with crimewatch. But unfortunatly did not take into account that the flight response of eve players. One example is the dec cost vs the cost of reforming a corp. (50m vs 5m) This made it a "win" to avoid wars and the capsuleers made use of this. The wardeccers answered by deccing more and more, just to have enough targets to support their gameplay. And it snowballed from there.
Then out of the blue, there was change/removal of a mechanic that was the last tool a wardeccing entity had to do focused wars. With no replacement. And here we are, the only viable wardeccing way is blanket dec everything and wait for the target to come to them. While corp and alliances fold with just a sniff of wars. There was a hope Citadels would help, but from experience the target rather fold corp and sacrifice the Citadel then fight back or defend it.
My hope is that CCP will look at this once more.. like they did in 2012. Imho think the situation is worse now. But while we wait, there a few things they could do...
1. Band-aid fix: tie old watchlist function with wardec's (not a fix for other issues) - The main reason for the watchlist change was that it is free intel. With having to pay an ammount every week it would not be free intel anymore.
2. Change of locator mechanics to not run if offline (minimum requirement to be able to hunt with some sort of effeciency) - Another reason for the watchlist change was privacy(?). Then... if your not online and playing, why should anyone be able to easily find out where you logged off?
3. Overall change of locator mechanic. (Could potentially fix several issues, depending on result.) - There's several ideas on how this could work, the biggest job would be to figure out a new mechanic that covers all "issues" and conserns of everyone.
4. Observatory Stations - (major work? but in line with current "theme") - Could work I guess.. imho would not like more structure grind and timers. Its also gonna favor the biggest blob.
5. Dont know if I dare say it.. revert the watchlist change. (I know they wont do it) - And make sure all areas of eve is represented in CSM before just removing a mechanic without a replacement in place.
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Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1632
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 14:53:42 -
[243] - Quote
If your citedal is up and your at war you can't disband Corp unless you want to forfeit all your stuff to Concord to be given to the aggressor as payment for he or she's initial payment for the war. This will deter Corp ship jumpers
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
|
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
403
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 14:59:35 -
[244] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:If your citedal is up and your at war you can't disband Corp unless you want to forfeit all your stuff to Concord to be given to the aggressor as payment for he or she's initial payment for the war. This will deter Corp ship jumpers They cant disband corp with a Citadel in space, but they just leave an alt in said corp and move all stuff out of citadel with neutrals.And close corp as soon as Citadel is down. Have happen to us a couple of times now.. |
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1632
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 16:00:36 -
[245] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Saeger1737 wrote:If your citedal is up and your at war you can't disband Corp unless you want to forfeit all your stuff to Concord to be given to the aggressor as payment for he or she's initial payment for the war. This will deter Corp ship jumpers They cant disband corp with a Citadel in space, but they just leave an alt in said corp and move all stuff out of citadel with neutrals.And close corp as soon as Citadel is down. Have happen to us a couple of times now.. Hey it's just an idea, just trying to get the discussion started
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
|
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
405
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 16:16:07 -
[246] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Saeger1737 wrote:If your citedal is up and your at war you can't disband Corp unless you want to forfeit all your stuff to Concord to be given to the aggressor as payment for he or she's initial payment for the war. This will deter Corp ship jumpers They cant disband corp with a Citadel in space, but they just leave an alt in said corp and move all stuff out of citadel with neutrals.And close corp as soon as Citadel is down. Have happen to us a couple of times now.. Hey it's just an idea, just trying to get the discussion started Hehe, I have nothing against ideas, but covering the dec cost when they sacrifice citadels(1b+) to get out of war is kinda feudal, isnt it? |
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1633
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 16:27:13 -
[247] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Saeger1737 wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Saeger1737 wrote:If your citedal is up and your at war you can't disband Corp unless you want to forfeit all your stuff to Concord to be given to the aggressor as payment for he or she's initial payment for the war. This will deter Corp ship jumpers They cant disband corp with a Citadel in space, but they just leave an alt in said corp and move all stuff out of citadel with neutrals.And close corp as soon as Citadel is down. Have happen to us a couple of times now.. Hey it's just an idea, just trying to get the discussion started Hehe, I have nothing against ideas, but covering the dec cost when they sacrifice citadels(1b+) to get out of war is kinda feudal, isnt it? Yea but the citedal in that case should be handed to the aggressor, as you fold Corp your giving up your right to own anything under said name and since citedals take forever to pull down, it should be placed in the hands of Concord hereby paying out the people your trying to avoid, hence a win for everyone. But Hopefully this deters Corp folding because of wars, and people just play in the sandbox.
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Stoner Ed
Grain Fields Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 09:08:46 -
[248] - Quote
Lord Razpataz your analysis is spot on. With the watchlist changing to a buddy list its been made a lot harder to fight on multiple fronts for mercenary corporations forcing them to fish at the hubs and along the pipes. Actual hunting seems like a dying skill among those that practice the fishing. Actually it's been a dying skill well before the buddy list made its entry. I guess people more often then not choose the easy route as long as it gets them a kill. Mercs are no exception. Thus the fishing gained in popularity to the mess it is today.
From someone often on the receiving end of wardecs incl. those from merc corps like yours the buddy list has proven to be both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand you can't see if WT are online anymore but on the other hand neither can they see you. I didnt have a lot of trouble with it since I always asume my WT know where I am all the time, but some of my friends did since they relied to heavily on the info the watchlist provided. And I think thats where the problem lies.
Mercs and players in general relied way to much on the watchlist and now that its gone they have a hard time adapting and are bummed things have gotten harder. But I like things have gotten more difficult. Means effort, skill and a sense of accomplishment are on the increase for those that succesfully adapt.
Ofcourse I also have a PvP toon so I have a good idea what I'm talking about. With wars I always did it the old fashioned way and spent some time getting to know my targets. The whole 'Know your enemy" idea and all. And as a result I could always quickly locate a target and estimate the conditions at the target quite accuratly without using the watchlist, locators or neutral scouts. I'd like to see more people learn these things again. Back when you could see npc standings of characters you could often get a good estimate where they were living. Specially if they was missioners, right down to the individual station.
I'm sure you wont quit the pewpew and all but maybe see it as a challenge to get on top of this change and make it work for you guys. There are plenty of options. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2674
|
Posted - 2016.08.05 05:20:17 -
[249] - Quote
As someone who tracked for years proof of CCP's secret pogrom of nerfs to hisec aggression mechanics (a mistaken attempt to increase subs by simply making EvE safer and easier for new players), I have zero faith they will reverse this new direct attack on hisec mercenary & wardec mechanics.
All of this has happened before, none of it is new, and it will all happen again.
The carebears have won.
F
Would you like to know more?
|
Sol epoch
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
317
|
Posted - 2016.08.05 18:33:22 -
[250] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:As someone who tracked for years proof of CCP's secret pogrom of nerfs to hisec aggression mechanics (a mistaken attempt to increase subs by simply making EvE safer and easier for new players), I have zero faith they will reverse this new direct attack on hisec mercenary & wardec mechanics. All of this has happened before, none of it is new, and it will all happen again. The carebears have won. F
I feel your pain brother.
|
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Kaely Tanniss
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
631
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 02:37:38 -
[251] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:As someone who tracked for years proof of CCP's secret pogrom of nerfs to hisec aggression mechanics (a mistaken attempt to increase subs by simply making EvE safer and easier for new players), I have zero faith they will reverse this new direct attack on hisec mercenary & wardec mechanics. All of this has happened before, none of it is new, and it will all happen again. The carebears have won. F
Sadly Feyd, I fear you're right.
..and how've you been stranger.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Larry Lighter
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:04:18 -
[252] - Quote
You merc's never leave the trade hubs or trade routes, so it doesn't really matter, just use local. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
710
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:08:49 -
[253] - Quote
Larry Lighter wrote:You merc's never leave the trade hubs or trade routes, so it doesn't really matter, just use local. The entire point of this thread was that *some* of them used to go out and *hunt* their targets away from trade hubs and trade routes. They didn't camp and hope for targets to come to them - they went to their targets. And they feel this is *now* no longer possible, due to changes such as watch list removal.
Though if you haven't managed to figure that out by this point...I suppose it is wishful thinking that you'll read/understand this post either...Oh well - I'll post it anyway.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
710
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:10:24 -
[254] - Quote
PS: Why are you hiding in an NPC corp, if none of the war-deccing corps ever leaves the trade hub?
Surely they are harmless to you if you just avoid the couple of systems they limit themselves to? So why penalize yourself with npc corp taxes/etc for no reason?
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17912
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:55:24 -
[255] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:PS: Why are you hiding in an NPC corp, if none of the war-deccing corps ever leaves the trade hub? Surely they are harmless to you if you just avoid the couple of systems they limit themselves to? So why penalize yourself with npc corp taxes/etc for no reason? Largely because of who the op is I imagine, Ignoring the outrageous irony of the question of course
=]|[=
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
713
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:56:32 -
[256] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:PS: Why are you hiding in an NPC corp, if none of the war-deccing corps ever leaves the trade hub? Surely they are harmless to you if you just avoid the couple of systems they limit themselves to? So why penalize yourself with npc corp taxes/etc for no reason? Largely because of who the op is I imagine, Ignoring the outrageous irony of the question of course Pffft, I'm not in an npc corp >_>
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17912
|
Posted - 2016.09.05 19:59:03 -
[257] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:PS: Why are you hiding in an NPC corp, if none of the war-deccing corps ever leaves the trade hub? Surely they are harmless to you if you just avoid the couple of systems they limit themselves to? So why penalize yourself with npc corp taxes/etc for no reason? Largely because of who the op is I imagine, Ignoring the outrageous irony of the question of course Pffft, I'm not in an npc corp >_> Touche anonymous forum alt, touche.
=]|[=
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sam shagnasty
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 18:48:36 -
[258] - Quote
A new add on to the war system could be . If you war Dec a corp/allaince you pay concord standard fee but you have an option to pay concord say 25% more . The added 25% fee is a concord alert system where if a war target logs on or jumps into concord secured space (ie high sec) and you have him added to the bubbly list he will go green. |
Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
1165
|
Posted - 2016.09.07 19:18:31 -
[259] - Quote
^ Since exactly zero corps would ever pay just the standard fee without the 25% green button premium, all this would accomplish would be to raise the wardec fee to current standard + 25%. |
Faylee Freir
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
302
|
Posted - 2016.09.09 19:02:33 -
[260] - Quote
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:^ Since exactly zero corps would ever pay just the standard fee without the 25% green button premium, all this would accomplish would be to raise the wardec fee to current standard + 25%. I wouldn't pay that on the big block alliances, but yeah I'd pay the extra fee on top of a 50m - 100m wardec in order to hunt someone I spotted.
HTFU
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17989
|
Posted - 2016.09.10 02:46:34 -
[261] - Quote
discussion being had in f&I here I I V
Click me
=]|[=
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martin Adoulin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 07:35:57 -
[262] - Quote
Merc work isent dead, its just you. your limiting yourself to highsec. Honestly wtf ?! thats content for a 5man group of 2 year olds not a 500man alliance. you were the mercenary version of 8 year old pve player still running lvl4s in highsec for caldari navy.
Ask yourselves, was there ever any real risk in what you were doing? No ? well then everyone can do. |
Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
3079
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 10:38:47 -
[263] - Quote
So much scorn over an area of operations. Did you get your mission battleship badtocuhed by them or something?
Devil's choose to operate in high sec. What's wrong with that? Is this one of those low/null/wh snobbery things again?
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
1168
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 16:55:27 -
[264] - Quote
martin Adoulin wrote:Merc work isent dead, its just you. your limiting yourself to highsec. Honestly wtf ?! thats content for a 5man group of 2 year olds not a 500man alliance. you were the mercenary version of 8 year old pve player still running lvl4s in highsec for caldari navy.
Ask yourselves, was there ever any real risk in what you were doing? No ? well then everyone can do. The anonymous forum alt hath spoken. Phear him! |
Valkin Mordirc
2496
|
Posted - 2016.09.11 18:09:41 -
[265] - Quote
martin Adoulin wrote:Merc work isent dead, its just you. your limiting yourself to highsec. Honestly wtf ?! thats content for a 5man group of 2 year olds not a 500man alliance. you were the mercenary version of 8 year old pve player still running lvl4s in highsec for caldari navy.
Ask yourselves, was there ever any real risk in what you were doing? No ? well then everyone can do.
Pray tell what 500 man alliance is in Highsec and run mercenary contracts?
Because I've somehow seemed to have glossed over such are a large target.
Also with two Mercenary Factions currently in conflict with one another I would say they are okay with elevating risk.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Barkley TYPE-R
Mad Dogs and Englishmen II Archetype.
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 20:49:39 -
[266] - Quote
Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18169
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 22:01:46 -
[267] - Quote
Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets
Click me
=]|[=
|
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN
340
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 22:12:34 -
[268] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets
I am probably one of the better informed to answer that question Ralph and to be honest the answer is not much is done to find targets, A few chars do send their alts out looking but not many do. It was something Myself and others tried to get people to do but as with everything in eve people are lazy not just Archetype.
As it stands at the moment I believe they are more interested in chasing Citadel contracts and structure bashing than pure merc work.
Don't forget I am only speaking of my time when I was there. |
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1744
|
Posted - 2016.09.19 22:40:15 -
[269] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets I am probably one of the better informed to answer that question Ralph and to be honest the answer is not much is done to find targets, A few chars do send their alts out looking but not many do. It was something Myself and others tried to get people to do but as with everything in eve people are lazy not just Archetype. As it stands at the moment I believe they are more interested in chasing Citadel contracts and structure bashing than pure merc work. Don't forget I am only speaking of my time when I was there. You tried really hard sitting in your absolution on Dixie undock daily.
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Barkley TYPE-R
Mad Dogs and Englishmen II Archetype.
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 05:56:01 -
[270] - Quote
Sorry mate Wasn't doubting your pro ness , just ment just because you can't check you buddy list for a green light you shouldn't get to disheartened As green light on buddy list then a locater telling you what system the tgt is in doesn't really add up to hunting , What alliance has the saying Adapt or Die From your post your clearly unable to adapt. But well done for playing for longer than me |
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Barkley TYPE-R
Mad Dogs and Englishmen II Archetype.
0
|
Posted - 2016.09.20 09:39:31 -
[271] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets
What I ment was stop moaning and do something different and if that doesn't work admit it's to much for you and it's you that's failed in what you want to do rather than the mechanics ,ie the fact that you can't just check your contact list for a green light , Make it to hard as you would have to pull your finger out and do some work . But you have been playing long enough to know that . So was just saying |
Kaely Tanniss
ATYPE Management Archetype.
696
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 03:02:22 -
[272] - Quote
Sol epoch wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets I am probably one of the better informed to answer that question Ralph and to be honest the answer is not much is done to find targets, A few chars do send their alts out looking but not many do. It was something Myself and others tried to get people to do but as with everything in eve people are lazy not just Archetype. As it stands at the moment I believe they are more interested in chasing Citadel contracts and structure bashing than pure merc work. Don't forget I am only speaking of my time when I was there.
No..we have broadened our line of work to include them. Besides, what better way to lure wts to a fight than to jeapardized something of such value..even then, many won't fight.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Valkin Mordirc
2513
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 04:36:50 -
[273] - Quote
Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets What I ment was stop moaning and do something different and if that doesn't work admit it's to much for you and it's you that's failed in what you want to do rather than the mechanics ,ie the fact that you can't just check your contact list for a green light , Make it to hard as you would have to pull your finger out and do some work . But you have been playing long enough to know that . So was just saying
Not trying to be a **** to another alliance member, so I'll put this as none harshly as possible.
When people say, "Lol just Adapt bro," what they are trying to say is, Use the tools still in game to make it work. Which is completely fine and understandable. We all get that.
What they don't understand is the Watchlist was the only tool there for a small wardeccing mercenary corp to compete and to find targets.
Your telling those people to adapt to a situation that no longer supports them in anyway, the play style they had previously. The removal over being able to track an online target, (Not a list of everyone you want to know is online or not those are two completely different things) hurts small corps, and forces everyone but the most dedicated in large merc alliances like Archetype, Marmite and VMG Public PIRATE and Free Kandy.
Which are the only active Mercenary Alliances around right now. Compared to last years Seven or Eight. If that drop doesn't at least throw up some warning signs about how healthy Highsec is. I don't know what to say to make you understand that it's not good.
Last year, we had, Forsaken, P45, Logitech, VMG, Marmite, Absolute, Devils, Public, PIRATE, Bad Neighbors Allibaitors, Pursuit of Happiness, BAW, plus 20 or small smaller wardecing corps like my own Abysmal Gentlemen, and Xris' group that all functioned in highsec.
Some of these alliance disbanned, not due to mechanic changes, some disbanned quietly on their own, others were ripped up by other mercenaries. However that fracture did not make smaller wardecing groups. Rather the members moved into other area's of EVE, or into other Merc groups.
Forsaken went to VMG and P45, P45 broke off from Marmtie, Absolute broke off into P45 and Archetype. Marmite broke off a part of it going to P45 and VMG. POH disbanned and went to VMG or Archetype. Logi tech broke and went to VMG, or Archetype, Bad Neighbors went to VMG or Marmite. Allibaitors went to Archetype, Devils are inactive, BAW, is inactive.
No one is asking for a Watch List back. We don't want that, We understand why it had to be removed. However what we want is a way to track online targets.
Also Adapt or Die, Delete the Weak is a Marmite thing mainly.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
3085
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 08:41:25 -
[274] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets What I ment was stop moaning and do something different and if that doesn't work admit it's to much for you and it's you that's failed in what you want to do rather than the mechanics ,ie the fact that you can't just check your contact list for a green light , Make it to hard as you would have to pull your finger out and do some work . But you have been playing long enough to know that . So was just saying Not trying to be a **** to another alliance member, so I'll put this as none harshly as possible. When people say, "Lol just Adapt bro," what they are trying to say is, Use the tools still in game to make it work. Which is completely fine and understandable. We all get that. What they don't understand is the Watchlist was the only tool there for a small wardeccing mercenary corp to compete and to find targets. Your telling those people to adapt to a situation that no longer supports them in anyway, the play style they had previously. The removal over being able to track an online target, (Not a list of everyone you want to know is online or not those are two completely different things) hurts small corps, and forces everyone but the most dedicated in large merc alliances like Archetype, Marmite and VMG Public PIRATE and Free Kandy. Which are the only active Mercenary Alliances around right now. Compared to last years Seven or Eight. If that drop doesn't at least throw up some warning signs about how healthy Highsec is. I don't know what to say to make you understand that it's not good. Last year, we had, Forsaken, P45, Logitech, VMG, Marmite, Absolute, Devils, Public, PIRATE, Bad Neighbors Allibaitors, Pursuit of Happiness, BAW, plus 20 or small smaller wardecing corps like my own Abysmal Gentlemen, and Xris' group that all functioned in highsec. Some of these alliance disbanned, not due to mechanic changes, some disbanned quietly on their own, others were ripped up by other mercenaries. However that fracture did not make smaller wardecing groups. Rather the members moved into other area's of EVE, or into other Merc groups. Forsaken went to VMG and P45, P45 broke off from Marmtie, Absolute broke off into P45 and Archetype. Marmite broke off a part of it going to P45 and VMG. POH disbanned and went to VMG or Archetype. Logi tech broke and went to VMG, or Archetype, Bad Neighbors went to VMG or Marmite. Allibaitors went to Archetype, Devils are inactive, BAW, is inactive. No one is asking for a Watch List back. We don't want that, We understand why it had to be removed. However what we want is a way to track online targets. Also Adapt or Die, Delete the Weak is a Marmite thing mainly. It also hurt tracking down wh targets (just trust me on that one). On the bright side it's made log off traps more viable because nobody notices when 6 WT's suddenly log off randomly
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Max Trix favourite ISD
'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King-Griffin
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Morgan Agrivar
Divine Bovine Security Services
527
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 11:14:23 -
[275] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:[quote=Barkley TYPE-R]Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets No one is asking for a Watch List back. You are wrong about that.
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
853
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 12:17:29 -
[276] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote: No one is asking for a Watch List back. You are wrong about that. He meant nobody serious - specifically Ralph is not asking for it back.
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Around occasionally.
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.
And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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Valkin Mordirc
2515
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 14:43:44 -
[277] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Barkley TYPE-R wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:[quote=Barkley TYPE-R]Hunting is hunting if that what you want to do go out and make it work don't moan that the buddy list doesn't tell you who's online Before making the Dec active do you recces active players, common locations build the int pic and if that's too hard for you implant the spy You will get what you put in these carebears don't want to give you an expensive killmail you have to work for it mate, ive spent more time just watching targets than you have playing eve as a whole. never mind finding or killing them. you have 60 live wars and over 5 times our numbers. please tell me of all the work you personally put into finding your targets No one is asking for a Watch List back. You are wrong about that.
If you are, then your one of few.
I don't want it back. Ralph or any one Devils want it back. Most people in my alliance don't want it back.
All I want personally is a way to tell if a single person is online at some cost.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
2079
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 16:02:07 -
[278] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: All I want personally is a way to tell if a single person is online at some cost.
Same. Except why should there be a cost? People in the real world don't just vanish. I'm supposed to bleed time or ISK to find out if the dude I was literally just looking at vanished into the ether?
This change forced me (and by extension my entire corp) out of wormhole space.
I also cancelled all my yearly subscriptions so I can reevaluate whether or not they are really necessary...
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1872
|
Posted - 2016.09.21 16:36:04 -
[279] - Quote
Confirming that it pretty much killed my (very) small wardec corp. Might have to relocate to null. Might join one of the big merc alliances. Might actually learn how to station trade and make da big iskies (bleh).
Not. Happy.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Cara Forelli
Better Off Red
2080
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 00:03:29 -
[280] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Confirming that it pretty much killed my (very) small wardec corp. Might have to relocate to null. Might join one of the big merc alliances. Might actually learn how to station trade and make da big iskies (bleh). Not. Happy. My small corp has just moved to null....we're recruiting.....
Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
605
|
Posted - 2016.09.22 00:24:36 -
[281] - Quote
I have been thinking of going to null since I have never lived there. Still mulling it over...
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
421
|
Posted - 2016.10.28 20:29:20 -
[282] - Quote
I've been on Slack harassing the people in the #CSM channel for a while now, trying to figure out what solutions would be accepted by the almighty eve-famous people. After fighting with the local trolls and know-it-alls for a while.... This is what I've come up with:
With whatchlist removed back in March, there's been some playstyles that benefited by the change, but it hit some small community's in eve hard. I want to suggest a few small changes that imho will fix a lot of the problems and still make it work for everyone without being OP.
First allowing watchlist to work IF a wardec was active. This will help defenders have a tool to see if their aggressors is online or not, and in effect if itGÇÖs safe to undock. It will also give back the possibility to be able to do "focused wars" and limit the amount of wardecs needed.
Then introduce a new structure for corp and alliances, a defensive one*. This would be a rather expensive structure you have to anchor in space, visible on scan and not be anchored within 1000km of anything. The structure would have the same ehp and reinforce timers as a poco. Its area of effect would cover just the system itGÇÖs anchored in and online it would take 24h. Having this structure anchored and online while at war will "shield" you from being visible on watchlist and locates within its area of effect.
* Alternatively have different sizes of defensive structure. Small for system protection, medium include surrounding systems and large for constellations that would only be able to anchored in 0.0 systems. The structures can't be anchored within another structures area of effect. (cant overlap)
And finally make locators work on people in wh's and give online status when delivering the location. This will give a minimum 10 minute delay on the online status.
With these suggested changes in place it would open up the possibility to hunt larger groups in highsec and give Mercs and wardeccers an option to hunt rather than being forced to use not commonly known workarounds or hubcamp/gatecamp tactics hoping the target comes to them. And also give defender side a tool to keep safe and be able to play if no aggressors is online. To solve WL being to overpowered the structure would work as a counter and opening up new objectives and a "reason to fight" other than isk.
What do you guys in C&P think?
Btw... Devils are starting up mercenary services again November 1th, still in highsec and relying on workarounds for now Our old thread should pop up as soon as I can get a hold of a friendly ISD willing to unlock it. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
364
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 10:03:25 -
[283] - Quote
Is this where I offer my real world capabilities of MILINT and TACOPS?
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department
601
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 15:48:31 -
[284] - Quote
Interesting ideas, I support this. Hopefully something will be done by CCP. Eventually.
I am glad to see you come back, good luck guys.
o7
Sneaky bastard.
Complaints Department is recruiting!
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
611
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 02:54:32 -
[285] - Quote
I would come back to do solo highsec wardecs if you get that going Raz.
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4507
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 10:10:20 -
[286] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Words Literally the only good "war related structures" post ever made.
I don't think your suggested changes to locator agents go far enough, though. Locator agents are so weak in terms of usefulness right now for any purpose, not just wars (I run locators on people I'm not actually at war with for other reasons) that they could use improvement in terms of return time and repeat time.
I also think that maybe access to them being dependent on agent standing might not be the right way for them to work. Perhaps it would be better if everyone could use any locator agent at some inflated cost and cost be decreased through agent standing. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
430
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 10:35:35 -
[287] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Words Literally the only good "war related structures" post ever made. I don't think your suggested changes to locator agents go far enough, though. Locator agents are so weak in terms of usefulness right now for any purpose, not just wars (I run locators on people I'm not actually at war with for other reasons) that they could use improvement in terms of return time and repeat time. I also think that maybe access to them being dependent on agent standing might not be the right way for them to work. Perhaps it would be better if everyone could use any locator agent at some inflated cost and cost be decreased through agent standing. Thx Vimsy
Yeah, I was trying to be moderate.. I've tried suggestions to improve locators, but the know-it-alls seem to think that locators are many and easy accessible without any clue how the mechanic works. And doing something to improve it would make it OP. |
DSpite Culhach
310
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 04:29:33 -
[288] - Quote
I've never liked the idea that one player could instantly know that another player had just come online in his own room - or worse, warp back into space after a logoff - from the other side of the galaxy.
Sorry, but that is to me just as nonsensical as the ability to basically "ping" space with a DSCAN. It's the equivalent of sitting in orbit around the moon, and instantly getting a radar image of everything all way to Uranus, instantly, as in the "radar" working faster then light speed, faster then warp speed.
On that note, those things needs to be possible in a mechanics functioning way to simply make the game "work as intended", so I would be in favor of the OP to have additional mechanics put in, ones that make "more game sense", to allow hunting of targets.
It's already been suggested that Locator Agents could be kept on active duty so that they could report back by themselves, much like a real agent would do, so maybe it should also be possible to similar things on stations as tripwires that go off when a target docks up/undocks.
After all, the Jump Gates and stations know who has passed through, as the ships would have to give an ID to use them, so why not use those mechanics instead? A player that bribes or pays various agents in systems should be basically setting up an intelligence network of sorts. It should not be anywhere as powerful as one based purely on actual players, but it should still be usable enough to facilitate the OP type of game play.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
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Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
665
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 22:16:28 -
[289] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Normal highsec Mercenary work is now sitting in hubs and pipes and decking everything that moves within eye-shot.
We will not , Therefore we are no longer Mercenary's.
While I sympathize with the mercenary community's irritation at losing the watch list, reading this made me raise an eyebrow. So what if most merc corps are trade hub camping? How does that in any way force you to do the same, or quit? That's a false dilemma, especially in a sandbox game.
As people suggested, you could incorporate infiltration into the target corporation as part of your contract. "That's too much effort" is not a viable excuse. All that means is that you are used to having this information spoon fed to you and now feel entitled to it. Yes, CCP took away one of your tools. Find a work-around. That's the Eve way.
For example, often times people who want to target a corporation have a character in that corporation. You could give preference to clients with an alt inside the target. If they don't have an insider, your corp could try to get an unaffiliated alt into the corp. Failing that, you could pass on the contract. Some of your corp members might even get good at infiltration if it becomes a routine procedure.
Regardless of the viability of these ideas, saying "most mercs hub camp, so merc work is now hub camping, so we are no longer mercs" is a cop-out.
I'm glad to see you've decided to not just walk away. And don't hinge your hopes on CCP fixing this problem for your small community. You say "workarounds" like it's a bad thing. Eve is ALL about the workarounds, especially when it comes to your little corner getting nerfed. You should know that by now.
http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
448
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Posted - 2016.11.03 22:31:20 -
[290] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Normal highsec Mercenary work is now sitting in hubs and pipes and decking everything that moves within eye-shot.
We will not , Therefore we are no longer Mercenary's. While I sympathize with the mercenary community's irritation at losing the watch list, reading this made me raise an eyebrow. So what if most merc corps are trade hub camping? How does that in any way force you to do the same, or quit? That's a false dilemma, especially in a sandbox game. As people suggested, you could incorporate infiltration into the target corporation as part of your contract. "That's too much effort" is not a viable excuse. All that means is that you are used to having this information spoon fed to you and now feel entitled to it. Yes, CCP took away one of your tools. Find a work-around. That's the Eve way. For example, often times people who want to target a corporation have a character in that corporation. You could give preference to clients with an alt inside the target. If they don't have an insider, your corp could try to get an unaffiliated alt into the corp. Failing that, you could pass on the contract. Some of your corp members might even get good at infiltration if it becomes a routine procedure. Regardless of the viability of these ideas, saying "most mercs hub camp, so merc work is now hub camping, so we are no longer mercs" is a cop-out. I'm glad to see you've decided to not just walk away. And don't hinge your hopes on CCP fixing this problem for your small community. You say "workarounds" like it's a bad thing. Eve is ALL about the workarounds, especially when it comes to your little corner getting nerfed. You should know that by now.
I dont know how many times I've explained that infiltrating is not a solution... How can you put an alt in a corp, if its not recruiting? We have made it work with workarounds, but imho unfair for the targets that dont know about it.
Bah.. I'm not gonna repeat myself over and over.. Thanks for the bump. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18931
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Posted - 2016.11.03 22:48:26 -
[291] - Quote
also would like to point out , those were my words, not Raz's.
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Wanda Fayne
279
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Posted - 2016.11.03 23:19:47 -
[292] - Quote
Locator agents could work within limits. Many have been previously mentioned but still remain the most viable fixes imho.
Examples Long cool-downs between locates Regional effectiveness (the old game of "hotter/colder") where you get a general idea of where a target is/was. Online/offline status only Delayed status notifications Standings requirements for agents Fee requirements for agents Limits on locates of character/corp Notification to target that they have been located via agent Counter-bribery to locate agents to give false information
The idea I think was to get rid of the instant passive notifications of the watchlist. Not kill active locating completely.
your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic
-Lan Wang-
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Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
665
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Posted - 2016.11.03 23:22:56 -
[293] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:
I dont know how many times I've explained that infiltrating is not a solution... How can you put an alt in a corp, if its not recruiting? We have made it work with workarounds, but imho unfair for the targets that dont know about it.
Bah.. I'm not gonna repeat myself over and over.. Thanks for the bump.
Have you thought about simply not taking contracts unless the target is recruiting OR the client has an alt in the corp already? If you advertised this policy, people would know to keep/put an alt in their target corp if it's not recruiting or don't bother asking. You can theorize that it would reduce your client list to something untenable, but until you try it you won't know for sure.
http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18933
|
Posted - 2016.11.03 23:46:01 -
[294] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
631
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Posted - 2016.11.04 00:01:02 -
[295] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Normal highsec Mercenary work is now sitting in hubs and pipes and decking everything that moves within eye-shot.
We will not , Therefore we are no longer Mercenary's. While I sympathize with the mercenary community's irritation at losing the watch list, reading this made me raise an eyebrow. So what if most merc corps are trade hub camping? How does that in any way force you to do the same, or quit? That's a false dilemma, especially in a sandbox game. As people suggested, you could incorporate infiltration into the target corporation as part of your contract. "That's too much effort" is not a viable excuse. All that means is that you are used to having this information spoon fed to you and now feel entitled to it. Yes, CCP took away one of your tools. Find a work-around. That's the Eve way. For example, often times people who want to target a corporation have a character in that corporation. You could give preference to clients with an alt inside the target. If they don't have an insider, your corp could try to get an unaffiliated alt into the corp. Failing that, you could pass on the contract. Some of your corp members might even get good at infiltration if it becomes a routine procedure. Regardless of the viability of these ideas, saying "most mercs hub camp, so merc work is now hub camping, so we are no longer mercs" is a cop-out. I'm glad to see you've decided to not just walk away. And don't hinge your hopes on CCP fixing this problem for your small community. You say "workarounds" like it's a bad thing. Eve is ALL about the workarounds, especially when it comes to your little corner getting nerfed. You should know that by now. And with this reply, it is hillariously obvious that you have not tried the highsec mercenary wars after they got rid of the watch list (RIP buddy...I will miss you so). The best analogy I can come up with is trying hit a cat with a sniper rifle from a mile away while the cat is in a mosh pit at a Pantera concert...oh wait, is the cat even there? Who knows...
They removed it for protecting the babies who fly captial ships, not for focused highsec wardecs...but that is who took the hardest hit. Now I can understand the removal of it but what us people who relied on it prevented all these blanket wardecs that you see now (and Ralph called it before it happened) with the watch list and CCP did not compensate the loss with adjusting the locater agents (best place to do it).
Trying to hunt ghosts in this game isn't very fun. I would gladly pay 10x the locater agent fee if he/she told me the person was online or not so my time isn't wasted. But until then, it is L4 mission time.
Please do not comment on any thread that you have no clue what you are talking about...thanks.
YC 117 New Eden Capsuleer's Writing Contest Submission - "Heartache"
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Salvos Rhoska
1614
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Posted - 2016.12.01 11:07:12 -
[296] - Quote
Redirected from GD out of curiosity.
Sad to hear a legit profession and content area of the game is suffering and reduced to the result of trade hub camping and mass WDing.
I dont have any options to suggest or the knowhow to evaluate suggestions, but the issue seems real enough.
GL, hopefully CCP will consider this in future.
(Mercs fulfill the three core qualities in my PVP vs PVE diagram in my sig, and extend outwards to affect all the peripheral PVE activities)
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
19393
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Posted - 2016.12.01 11:22:37 -
[297] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Redirected from GD out of curiosity.
Sad to hear a legit profession and content area of the game is suffering and reduced to the result of trade hub camping and mass WDing.
I dont have any options to suggest or the knowhow to evaluate suggestions, but the issue seems real enough.
GL, hopefully CCP will consider this in future.
(Mercs fulfill the three core qualities in my PVP vs PVE diagram in my sig, and extend outwards to affect all the peripheral PVE activities) Here's two praposals made to help facilitate a healthier empire war scene Mine and Raz's. Mine is a stop gap , Raz's is a more developed idea ,
We're Back in Business ,
have your very own Meeny Faced Bastards on call today
=]|[=
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Salvos Rhoska
1616
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Posted - 2016.12.01 11:35:16 -
[298] - Quote
Liked em both and updated my previous post to more specifically articulate why Merc Corps should get more consideration from CCP as content providers.
Ill update the diagram in my sig to specifically include/represent Mercs central role.
If I ever have need of Merc services or come across someone who does, Ill be sure to prefer and recommend yours first.
If there is anything else I can do to help, Ill be glad to as I see this issue as worthy.
GL in your crusade and efforts to bring CCPs attention to this. o7
PvE v PvP
Selling CODE licenses! 9.99mil isk!
Bid for unique CODE neon edition special agent certificate!
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Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.12.01 15:13:11 -
[299] - Quote
What I do not get is why the heck this is actualy a problem? To me it is a very easy problem to solve, just develop the EvE version of this....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dupuy-de-Lome-photo10.jpg
Seriously take any basic cargo hauler, let it mount 3 high slots for sensor ARAYS dedicated to ELINT, system, region, long range, mids for super computers for tracking down specific individuals intel and lows for data collection on single corps per slot via bulk intel analysis. Heck rig it so that it can track down both PVP stuff and PvE stuff so everyone has a reason to use it.
Why would this work? Simple. You cant do anything in game without telling the servers about it.
Undock or jump through a gate? boom aerospace traffic control starts yapping about it around the station. Same with docking. Probing? Your spaming scan signals. Pop a rat or an NPC ship Concord gets the message and pays you, pirates send coms about it, and the NPC faction starts trying to find out what happened to there ships. Spam ingame private channels with kinky Cyber sex? Ew but Intell is Ammo.
Heck make a droppable intel satelight that passively collects data that will self destruct after 1 - 4 days so you know not to waste time war decking that gut in Japan that's always in bed when you are online.
Seriously I see no reason CCP Has not already done this..... oh. Oh right, this is CCP. The company that keeps forgetting that it makes a game about actual Spaceships in space. |
Stevn Thomas
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.12.01 15:44:21 -
[300] - Quote
And note I am fully aware that my "simple solution" could easily take a year or more of coding to create a working prototype.
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