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Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.20 17:08:00 - [31] Tell me people do you know why gate camping works? Because local dosen't tell you that your about to become a pinata. Local is a ***** in my case but I propose remove local and make the map update every 5 minutes. I would also like to see the scanner become a motion tracker so the lone 0.0 miner can still have defense against the inty pilot that is being chased while looking for a kill. Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
Nekuva The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.20 17:29:00 - [32] Originally by: The Champion EvEning! just an idea of mine is to replace local chat (channel) with constelation channel , we know where our cookies at, what we need to defend and we can scan too, so no use of local chat!!! we use scouts! its more interesting! instead of local chat give us a constelation chat channel! make eve more interesting and delete local channel will be more of a tactic perspective and will make pvp more fun/thrill! atleast post ur pro/contras and take it into consideration! For a better EvE-Online!!! we have constellation chat. and region chat. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Give me ISK....
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.20 17:31:00 - [33] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 20/02/2007 17:27:54 Originally by: Nekuva Originally by: The Champion EvEning! just an idea of mine is to replace local chat (channel) with constelation channel , we know where our cookies at, what we need to defend and we can scan too, so no use of local chat!!! we use scouts! its more interesting! instead of local chat give us a constelation chat channel! make eve more interesting and delete local channel will be more of a tactic perspective and will make pvp more fun/thrill! atleast post ur pro/contras and take it into consideration! For a better EvE-Online!!! we have constellation chat. and region chat. But I'm usually the only one in there Removal all chat channels besides corp,alliance,private, and Eve radio Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
Abrah	Posted - 2007.02.20 17:58:00 - [34] remove local , because pure and simple its ruining the game its just so unrealist... or at least make it not show the ppl that are not typing in it
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.02.20 18:14:00 - [35] Originally by: The Slayer Give me a scanner that can find cloaked alts in local and then you can remove local chat. If you remove local NOW, cloaked alts in system are COMPLETELY invisible, which is just bullsh*t imho, as how is a large 0.0 alliance supposed to defend its space if it cant see who is in it. Given that most ships can't even warp and none can target (much less attack) while cloaked, what the hell are you so worried about? As for how these "large" alliances should defend themselves, golly I dunno... maybe assign escorts to non-PvP oriented ships... you know... teamwork? God forbid your little metagaming crutch of relying on local chat for intel be taken away.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.02.20 19:15:00 - [36] Edited by: The Slayer on 20/02/2007 19:12:15 Originally by: Blue Pixie Random nonsense Thats not the point, the point is that alliances that own space should a/ know who is in thier space and b/ be able to keep tabs on said people and remove unwanteds. If someone can simply completely disappear then how are alliances supposed to control and hold their space? How are spies to be found and flushed out. Edited coz I suck at da formattingzors
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.20 19:36:00 - [37] Whatever. If local "is not to be used as a tactical tool", something else sure would need to. It is impossible. Hint: The only people that want local to go, are : a) "Offensive" solo pvpers and have no use for local except alerting their prey and getting smack-talked to afterwards. b) Misguided low-and-zero sec non-pvpers that have not yet understood how often they would die without the local channel to alert them c) See one and two, but with larger groups. Anyone who plays tactical 0.0 (alliances, defending/attacking territory, scouting et.c.) realises you need a tactical tool. Also, you need an indication you're not alone! You can have 10 people in a system for some time and no-one actually encounter another. It would be too lonely in 0.0... Yeah, space is indeed a lonely place, but this is a community game, not an excercise in negative realism.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.20 19:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Neuromandis Whatever. If local "is not to be used as a tactical tool", something else sure would need to. It is impossible. Hint: The only people that want local to go, are : a) "Offensive" solo pvpers and have no use for local except alerting their prey and getting smack-talked to afterwards. b) Misguided low-and-zero sec non-pvpers that have not yet understood how often they would die without the local channel to alert them c) See one and two, but with larger groups. Anyone who plays tactical 0.0 (alliances, defending/attacking territory, scouting et.c.) realises you need a tactical tool. Also, you need an indication you're not alone! You can have 10 people in a system for some time and no-one actually encounter another. It would be too lonely in 0.0... Yeah, space is indeed a lonely place, but this is a community game, not an excercise in negative realism. Scanner? Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat
The Champion	Posted - 2007.02.21 00:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Neuromandis Whatever. If local "is not to be used as a tactical tool", something else sure would need to. It is impossible. Hint: The only people that want local to go, are : a) "Offensive" solo pvpers and have no use for local except alerting their prey and getting smack-talked to afterwards. b) Misguided low-and-zero sec non-pvpers that have not yet understood how often they would die without the local channel to alert them c) See one and two, but with larger groups. Anyone who plays tactical 0.0 (alliances, defending/attacking territory, scouting et.c.) realises you need a tactical tool. Also, you need an indication you're not alone! You can have 10 people in a system for some time and no-one actually encounter another. It would be too lonely in 0.0... Yeah, space is indeed a lonely place, but this is a community game, not an excercise in negative realism. i dont know if u understood me right maybe i was unclear i meant replace local chat with constellation chat u wills till see reds and blues in constellation same as its now in local chat. u know where they can come from into ur constelation and u can still have scouts checking entrances to ur constellation or to entrance const to ur space.
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.21 02:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Neuromandis on 21/02/2007 02:54:45 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Scanner? Quite probably, but not at its current version, it is very hard to use and not powerful to replace local. Gives no IFF (Identify Friend or Foe) info unless someone has not changed the name of his ship (but the person's name still would have to be looked up and you would have no idea if he simply copied someone's name), has limited range, is manual, the list goes on. But SOME kind of scanner would be needed. Originally by: The Champion i dont know if u understood me right maybe i was unclear i meant replace local chat with constellation chat u wills till see reds and blues in constellation same as its now in local chat. u know where they can come from into ur constelation and u can still have scouts checking entrances to ur constellation or to entrance const to ur space. Well, that is pretty much a pre-requisite in order to keep any kind of community, but we would still need a tactical tool to replace local for in-system search. Searching is much slower than travelling. By the time the first scout starts scanning the first system, the hostile fleet is already one jump inside. By the time he finishes scanning the first system, the hostile fleet would already be in whatever solar system they would operate in. Also constellation would be pretty crowded. If I was a dev I'd just make cloakers disappear and to hell with it, it works pretty well otherwise.
SghnDubh	Posted - 2007.02.21 04:12:00 - [41] Further increase combat length by 200% to 300%, change all Warp Core Stabs to -6 base scan points and artificially cap all ship prices at mineral cost +10% ...and I'll vote for removing player listing in local. Seem unreasonable? Yeah, well, admit it: the only real reason to remove player listings from local is to make a lazy pirate's jobs easier. :P -- Fight Smart: http://www.BattleClinic.com
Jesters Knight Encoded Theory	Posted - 2007.02.21 04:19:00 - [42] you do realize that there is already a constellation channel, as well as a region channel. its just that nobody uses them Ingame website to help management (+)+(*^) = ^+
The Champion	Posted - 2007.02.21 10:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Jesters Knight Edited by: Jesters Knight on 21/02/2007 04:16:22 you do realize that there is already a constellation channel, as well as a region channel. its just that nobody uses them EDIT, nevermind, untill there is no way to warn the miners that get shat on by CCP the PVPers will complain that they run away when teh first on jumps in. im sorry your gank didnt go to well there buddy, but dont blame it on local miners warp to pos or ss as soon someone red or unknown enters local chat anyways, so thats an imo just a slight argument but still miners would rather scout the entrance gates to their system instead of stupididly warp as soon someone enters constellation atleast it would bring more people to 0.0 miner could just camp the entrance gates with a bubble and some guards.. it will be just a bit harder for pvpers to get some miners.. but thats why they are called pvpers and not gankers right? pvpers would fight the guards atleast and than 2 groups both fited for pvp would actually meet. pvpers dont tank their ships for ganking miners as theirs not so much of tank needed.. and who says miners will just run? maybe they warp to pos/station/outpost get their pvp ships and atleast are able to get to the gates before the gankers already in system and set themselves at the gate wich will be more fun for pvpers too. and if miners escape its just fair cause noone said u should be able to gank miners easily as they are only peacefull miners enough bout miners now =) -npcers are aligned anyways and they use the scanner wich could be extended if its really needed! ie make scanning a person harder.. as he can be farer out as only 14 au.. anyways if u try and think about the most situations wich can happen u will come to the conclusion that removing local chat is good for everyone. the argument that people wont do stuff togetehr is wrong too as they can chat in hole constellation and gangs are "forced" to use atleast 2 or 3 scouts. so now if i forgot something to kill ur arguments, just bring it but do it after u thought a bit first!
Gershomea Raphael Metal Winter Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.02.21 10:08:00 - [44] I sometimes have a Constallation channel, instead of Local. Usually when I log in to EVE on my work PC - I thought it was just because the PC was so crap (P3 with GF2MX video).
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.02.21 10:11:00 - [45] Removing local would lose to many subscriptions. CCP can't do it and maintain the game I'm pretty sure. Local has become to much part of the game. Constellation chat and Regional chat already exist they aren't used because they are impractical. For instance thing of everyone in the constellation Jita is in being in the same chat, and then again in Regional chat. It would be impossible to hold any conversation, much like the hlep channels and trade channels.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.21 10:28:00 - [46] Local is too powerfull tool! It makes surprise an impossible thing, and removes 90% of tactical oportunities in game and is one of the main causes of blob warfare! Remove local and everything will be better! Including the fact the alliances territories will shrink! Opening more chance and space for people that are not in an uber alliance. Its compeltely ridiculows thata alliances can control and patrol huge territories like BoB, D2 and ASCN have or had. Wanna know who is in your system? Stablish bordrs on choke point sthat can be watched 23/7 with at least some one on guard at incoming gate! You say.. not feasible? Yeash in Bob size empire sure. But on any reasonable sized territory its not hard. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.21 10:58:00 - [47] Because "oh god! There's no possible way local could work because how could any system track all the ships entering and exiting a solar system unless they had to go through some central checkpoi..." Why the hell should stargates not fulfill this role? Why wouldn't they fill this role? Some other rebuttals. Pirates will spend a lot more time warping between empty belts but they will be the least effected. Miners are ****, and you if you think that is remotely fair. Alliances are left with no way to patrol or defend their space, and all warfare becomes pure blob warfare around POSs, with even longer stints of boredom between fleet battles while everyone spends hours looking for the other ones. Pretty much everyone quits because it's a ***** pain in the ass to do anything anymore.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.21 11:08:00 - [48] Originally by: James Duar Because "oh god! There's no possible way local could work because how could any system track all the ships entering and exiting a solar system unless they had to go through some central checkpoi..." Why the hell should stargates not fulfill this role? Why wouldn't they fill this role? Some other rebuttals. Pirates will spend a lot more time warping between empty belts but they will be the least effected. Miners are ****, and you if you think that is remotely fair. Alliances are left with no way to patrol or defend their space, and all warfare becomes pure blob warfare around POSs, with even longer stints of boredom between fleet battles while everyone spends hours looking for the other ones. Pretty much everyone quits because it's a ***** pain in the ass to do anything anymore. nowadays its compeltely impossible to get anyone that don't want to be caught exaclty because of local!! Local makes the game very very limited on combat oportunities! 99% of possibles fights I saw never happened because of local! Local as tactical tool must go! Or at least be nerfed to something like delayed 5 minutes. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.21 11:15:00 - [49] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: James Duar Because "oh god! There's no possible way local could work because how could any system track all the ships entering and exiting a solar system unless they had to go through some central checkpoi..." Why the hell should stargates not fulfill this role? Why wouldn't they fill this role? Some other rebuttals. Pirates will spend a lot more time warping between empty belts but they will be the least effected. Miners are ****, and you if you think that is remotely fair. Alliances are left with no way to patrol or defend their space, and all warfare becomes pure blob warfare around POSs, with even longer stints of boredom between fleet battles while everyone spends hours looking for the other ones. Pretty much everyone quits because it's a *** pain in the ass to do anything anymore. nowadays its compeltely impossible to get anyone that don't want to be caught exaclty because of local!! Local makes the game very very limited on combat oportunities! 99% of possibles fights I saw never happened because of local! No 99% of possible GANKS don't happen because of local. If 2 people find each other and are looking for a fight, they'll have one. And a lot more fleet engagements and gate bustings happen because there is local. Originally by:** Kagura Nikon Local as tactical tool must go! Or at least be nerfed to something like delayed 5 minutes. Your evidence and analysis (or lack thereof) does not support this conclusion.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.22 08:41:00 - [50] God ! How can you people not see that the largest game issue today (ned of huge blobs) is caused exaclty by the local? It makes you aware imediately of the size of enemy gang so you blob more to outblob him.. he discover imdiatelly and blob more etc.. Local is for cowards or lazy! A true organized alliance in a reasonable space should have NO problem patrolling it against any large threat!! But allowing small incusrsions to be attempt! That will make the usage of small gangs much more likely than big blobs!! THINK!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.22 08:49:00 - [51] Yeah guys seriously! You should spend all your playing time flying from one system to the next launching scan probes, then making sure they don't find ships at POS's.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.22 09:41:00 - [52] Originally by: James Duar Yeah guys seriously! You should spend all your playing time flying from one system to the next launching scan probes, then making sure they don't find ships at POS's. much more fun tahn standing still just looking local! And you dont get it! he idea is exactly that shoudl be impossible to guard huge territories agaisnt small gangs. that woul;d make small gangs a better tactical asset than huge blobs! More fun to everyone! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Kagura Nikon God ! How can you people not see that the largest game issue today (ned of huge blobs) is caused exaclty by the local? We "cannot see it" because we disagree. Consider the possibility that you may be wrong. Also consider the possibility that what you would actually like to see others would not. Originally by: Kagura Nikon much more fun tahn standing still just looking local! And you dont get it! he idea is exactly that shoudl be impossible to guard huge territories agaisnt small gangs. that woul;d make small gangs a better tactical asset than huge blobs! More fun to everyone! "Size of the blob" means jack-squat. COMPOSITION of the blob is not provided by local. At the moment local says "20 people", but not "wolfpack" or "immense battleship fleet". Second, it IS impossible to guard against small gangs unless you actually happen to deploy a bubble at the right plac at the right time and they have no advance scout. I.e. exactly because unless someone is actually SCOUTING (instead of half-assedly watching local) you have NO IDEA what you're up against, and that goes for both sides. Mking overview 15 au at first sounded nice but then I thought it through a bit more: a) lag b) it becomes even MORE powerful than local, because you actually see people, names and ships while being immune to attack from them. Grids are good as they are atm imo. c) lag d) lag
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:32:00 - [54] I am all for the removal of local it would make those damn alt scouts in shuttles useless Never again are you allowed to complain about not training for combat

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