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Radical Posture
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2016.05.01 12:22:40 -
[91] - Quote
Gankers are nothing more than Miners who jump on Gank alts when you start mining their system. |
W33b3l
Conquest and Kittens
89
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Posted - 2016.05.01 18:40:48 -
[92] - Quote
The reason CCP is looking at highsec a little more is because nothing induces rage anywhere close to being ganked in highsec. If anyone else blows up anywhere else, they either had a warning message pop up on their screen or the pew pew was consensual. Rage = rage quit sometimes wich = lost sub, wich = less income for CCP.
I have personally known people to unsub after dieing to an expensive highsec gank. Its actually common. I don't speak for CCP but I would think it's safe to assume these changes to highsec are mainly for monetary reasons. |
Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
17
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Posted - 2016.05.01 20:12:06 -
[93] - Quote
W33b3l wrote:The reason CCP is looking at highsec a little more is because nothing induces rage anywhere close to being ganked in highsec. If anyone else blows up anywhere else, they either had a warning message pop up on their screen or the pew pew was consensual. Rage = rage quit sometimes wich = lost sub, wich = less income for CCP.
I have personally known people to unsub after dieing to an expensive highsec gank. Its actually common. I don't speak for CCP but I would think it's safe to assume these changes to highsec are mainly for monetary reasons.
Even then, gankers adapt. They will always find a way around any change that seems to hinder them. |
W33b3l
Conquest and Kittens
89
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Posted - 2016.05.01 20:18:40 -
[94] - Quote
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:W33b3l wrote:The reason CCP is looking at highsec a little more is because nothing induces rage anywhere close to being ganked in highsec. If anyone else blows up anywhere else, they either had a warning message pop up on their screen or the pew pew was consensual. Rage = rage quit sometimes wich = lost sub, wich = less income for CCP.
I have personally known people to unsub after dieing to an expensive highsec gank. Its actually common. I don't speak for CCP but I would think it's safe to assume these changes to highsec are mainly for monetary reasons. Even then, gankers adapt. They will always find a way around any change that seems to hinder them.
Short of a forced fire safety of green in highsec completely removing all non wartarget aggression.
I don't see that happening anytime soon if ever though. I wonder what would happen lol. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
488
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Posted - 2016.05.01 20:46:36 -
[95] - Quote
If you can't gank in 3 mins, your just bumping for the lols. Get on with it or bugger off. Some people where caught up for a very long time via bumping. Mostly because they don't understand the true power of just logging off. (1 min if locked 30sec if not assuming no other timers).
Dragging out ganks is tedious and not good. Either do it or don't. But don't take all day about it.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1630
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Posted - 2016.05.01 21:09:40 -
[96] - Quote
I have removed a few personal attacks and off-topic replies.
Quote:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2532
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Posted - 2016.05.01 21:58:07 -
[97] - Quote
Fiddly Pop wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Please stop claiming its "content creation" when someone just plays the game. That isn't "creating content". In fact in over 11 years now in Eve I have seen very little "content" created by players. I've seen sandbox styles of play gain favor, but I'm waiting to see more actual content created. For example, lets have more "sports league" type ideas. How about a corp dedicated to hosting live player events. Real trade embargoes, That happens sometimes, but not nearly as much as it could.
Ganking is NOT creating content. I beg to differ. ganking creates action. ganking is also easy to avoid as most are flashy red. if you are engaged in the game you will almost never ganked. sure if you are new in an area and don't know who to watch out for it could happen but most people stay to area they know. Just because sometimes the person was AFK and doesn't notice the content until an hour later doesn't mean it wasn't content. It just means they missed the content.
Ganking is not content, it is standard game play in the sandbox. Nothing is "created". I'm not saying don't gank, just don't claim you created anything when you did, all you did was play Eve as intended. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4171
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Posted - 2016.05.01 22:55:30 -
[98] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Ganking is not content, it is standard game play in the sandbox. Nothing is "created". I'm not saying don't gank, just don't claim you created anything when you did, all you did was play Eve as intended. This is demonstrably false. There is an entire anti-ganking community whose gameplay is entirely dependent on the existence of ganking.
Ganking directly creates the content for anti-ganking gameplay.
You can claim whatever you want about the value of that content, but claiming that ganking doesn't create content is a straight up lie. But hey carebears lying to push their agenda isn't exactly a new thing. |
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
160
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Posted - 2016.05.02 00:09:20 -
[99] - Quote
It's very simple. Anything that's in space is potential 'content'. When you see a potential 'target' in space, whether it's high-sec or low sec or null sec, you start to think about ways to destroy/loot that stuff. As long as it's not impossible to do it, people will find ways to achieve the kill. This is the part that gets creative, and eve players have always found ways to kill something new under new mechanics. From can flipping of the old days to organised ganks with brute force, as long as something is in space, we will find ways to destroy it.
So from that point of view, any mechanic that gets more ships/structures in space is a good thing IMO. The reason why high-sec is attractive for 'content' seekers is that there are so many ships flying in space there. In low/null too many people dock/cloak up as soon as something shows up in local. People don't even wait to see what ship the neutral is flying and evaluate whether to fight or flee. But in high sec, people have this false sense of security. People think they are (relatively) safe and continue to haul/fly with billions of isk in loot & modules fitted.
If there is any mechanics change (be it bumping or whatever else in future), anything that gives people the feeling that high-sec is 'safer' works in gankers' favour ultimately. Yes you may need more effort to organise a successful gank, but the opposite extreme is that ganks are so easy & common people start docking up & not actually flying in space, in which case you get no 'content'. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
993
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Posted - 2016.05.02 01:02:29 -
[100] - Quote
Delt0r Garsk wrote:If you can't gank in 3 mins, your just bumping for the lols. Get on with it or bugger off. Some people where caught up for a very long time via bumping. Mostly because they don't understand the true power of just logging off. (1 min if locked 30sec if not assuming no other timers).
Dragging out ganks is tedious and not good. Either do it or don't. But don't take all day about it. This has been remedied by pegging you with a rookie ship. Then you have a 15 minute log off timer, and it can be refreshed at any time.
The three minute always goes through has another part, the server has to check each tick if a ship can warp. This is the same as serving up a 504 error. Its sending back a bit of data to say just get it over with, in this case the warp instead of an error.
Functionally for ganking, this doesn't change as much if you keep everyone nearby or go for alphastrikes. The bigger issue here is if you can't tank the surprise moment or have multiple targets during a cooldown. But then, this is now a better enforcement in a nominal sense, since it puts through that ganks have a window at each gate to occur.
So once more, fast reacting blobs do better, but then again ganking with tornadoes is always more fun. |
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4480
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Posted - 2016.05.02 01:17:58 -
[101] - Quote
Didn't read all three previous pages, I'll admit. I had to jump to here, which is "Gawt, that OP pretend miner post was way too obvious." Come on, man. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3827
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Posted - 2016.05.02 01:46:46 -
[102] - Quote
Because the gankers in high sec are not "content creators". That phrase was invented as a smoke screen to hide their true intentions: Griefing. Before they came up with this white wash, gankers would say they did it for "The precious tears". They finally figured out that was politically incorrect, and put up the current smoke screen.
They are in fact content destroyers. The freighters they destroy can no longer haul, preventing them from creating content. The removal of the ship itself is a direct removal of content. The cargo lost to the loot fairy is a removal of content. The interaction between buyers and sellers that would have occurred if that cargo had been put on the market is also a loss of content, along with whatever content would have been created had that cargo been available to be used by other players.
Ships destroyed. Market activity gone. Useful items gone. Ganking does not create content. It destroys content.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
993
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Posted - 2016.05.02 02:26:00 -
[103] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Because the gankers in high sec are not "content creators". That phrase was invented as a smoke screen to hide their true intentions: Griefing. Before they came up with this white wash, gankers would say they did it for "The precious tears". They finally figured out that was politically incorrect, and put up the current smoke screen.
They are in fact content destroyers. The freighters they destroy can no longer haul, preventing them from creating content. The removal of the ship itself is a direct removal of content. The cargo lost to the loot fairy is a removal of content. The interaction between buyers and sellers that would have occurred if that cargo had been put on the market is also a loss of content, along with whatever content would have been created had that cargo been available to be used by other players.
Ships destroyed. Market activity gone. Useful items gone. Ganking does not create content. It destroys content. Yeah, which then means somebody buys my stuff.
Broken windows fallacy in EVE doesn't apply since we have rat drops and infinite ammo damage.
Without destruction, very few things need to be bought, and frankly, if you check market activity, you find a single freighter on a large number of items can tip a market on its head. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
271
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Posted - 2016.05.02 04:17:05 -
[104] - Quote
Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick.
There obviously have to be rookie systems in game and in those areas of space, the mechanics have to be newbie-friendly. Not seeing the "nerf content creators to death" part tho. What content are we talking about? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4174
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Posted - 2016.05.02 04:58:47 -
[105] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
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Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
35
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Posted - 2016.05.02 06:30:06 -
[106] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick.
There obviously have to be rookie systems in game and in those areas of space, the mechanics have to be newbie-friendly. Not seeing the "nerf content creators to death" part tho. What content are we talking about?
Think of the poor high sec gankers. How would they find their targets in a unsafe environment?
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2016.05.02 06:47:05 -
[107] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Perhaps CCP plans on toning down highsec rewards and replacing a lot of highsec space with lowsec? Like less or equal than .7 would do the trick.
There obviously have to be rookie systems in game and in those areas of space, the mechanics have to be newbie-friendly. Not seeing the "nerf content creators to death" part tho. What content are we talking about? Think of the poor high sec gankers. How would they find their targets in a unsafe environment? Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2452
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Posted - 2016.05.02 07:56:25 -
[108] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Because the gankers in high sec are not "content creators". That phrase was invented as a smoke screen to hide their true intentions: Griefing. Before they came up with this white wash, gankers would say they did it for "The precious tears". They finally figured out that was politically incorrect, and put up the current smoke screen.
They are in fact content destroyers. The freighters they destroy can no longer haul, preventing them from creating content. The removal of the ship itself is a direct removal of content. The cargo lost to the loot fairy is a removal of content. The interaction between buyers and sellers that would have occurred if that cargo had been put on the market is also a loss of content, along with whatever content would have been created had that cargo been available to be used by other players.
Ships destroyed. Market activity gone. Useful items gone. Ganking does not create content. It destroys content. Of course they are content creators. By your logic, every single form of ship PvP is "content destroying" because there will always be a net loss of virtual items in the game universe when two or more ships battle it out. They may be 'virtual item destroyers' but gankers and wardeccers are certainly not destroying content.
Eve Online is a player-driven game. CCP provides the tools, and the players make the content. Gankers, wardeccers and others in highsec who seek to destroy or capture other player's assets are initiating content by forcing other players to account for their actions, and defend their space pixels. Moreover, the loss of virutal items that space combat, including ganking and wardeccing, results in, provides meaning for these virtual items to be built. Given that most industrial output is purchased by players to prepare for, or replace assets lost in ship combat, this destruction-created demand is also indirectly the major source of content in this game for industrialists. The real jewel of this game, the player driven economy, is therefore completely dependent on player-created content including that which takes place in highsec.
Destroying things creates more demand, not less, as things need to be replaced. If you buy a ship and it never explodes, you will never buy that one again, while if you lose a mining ship or hauler on occasion, part of your imaginary wealth will be used to pay other players to build you a new one. Ganking, creates even more economic demand (AKA content) than other forms of ship combat as the attacking ships are destroyed as well.
Virtual items in a London database are not content. Content in Eve is the player-player interactions and stories (like fighting off the evil pirates), and reasons for undocking to do stuff (like mine or build), both of which are provided by highsec content creators like gankers and wardeccers and their destructive activities.
Why Do They Gank?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7595
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Posted - 2016.05.02 08:23:35 -
[109] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong".
At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK.
Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17606
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:36:17 -
[110] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong". At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK. Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers.
People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed. |
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ArmyOfMe
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
598
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:38:45 -
[111] - Quote
Tbh, its not hard to understand why ppl mine and stuff afk, cause the pve content in eve is mindnumbing boring.
ArmyOfMe wrote:
1) If you get bumped then that webber wont do anything.
baltec1 wrote:
We use the exact same tactic for titans and they enter warp instantly.
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Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
38
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:41:56 -
[112] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong". At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK. Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers. People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed.
You mean: "People used battleships when there were easy way to exploit bugs and turn people into aggressors.", right? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17606
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 06:49:40 -
[113] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? This is what most of the arguments here come down to, and that's on both sides of this, "these people don't play the way I do therefore they are playing wrong". At the end of the day both ganking and mining will continue to exist and it's up to CCP to balance it which so far they've done pretty well with. I don't particularly like AFK play, but I'd rather see CCP make the gameplay more rewarding for being active than punish the entire playstyle because some people do it AFK. Oh, and for the record, it's a bit rich getting on your high horse about people in their safe environment while you are guarding a playstyle that uses alts in cheap disposable ships to shoot people (more often that not rookie or just terrible players) in the same highsec environment. I have a few ganking chars and I'd consider none of them risk takers. People used to use battleships but that got nerfed. In fact damn near everything ganking related has either been nerfed into the ground or outright removed. You mean: "People used battleships when there were easy way to exploit bugs and turn people into aggressors.", right?
No I mean the battleship was the ship of choice for ganking. You can't very well complain about gankers using cheap, disposable ships when the mechanics demand such ships need to be used if you want to turn a profit. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
43
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:55:29 -
[114] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? Well: Would you like to do this job? Staring at the screen and switching the asteroid every 15 minutes isn't my idea of fun. And of cause you only buy ships that are build with certificated non-akf Minerals. By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17606
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:59:51 -
[115] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Think of the poor highsec miners and haulers.
How will they AFK watch Netflix is an unsafe environment? Well: Would you like to do this job? Staring at the screen and switching the asteroid every 15 minutes isn't my idea of fun. And of cause you only buy ships that are build with certificated non-akf Minerals. By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
Go try gank an afk skiff in highsec, better yet, try to do it and turn a profit. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26140
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Posted - 2016.05.03 07:15:33 -
[116] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null. Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
271
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Posted - 2016.05.03 08:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
"Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?"
It's not. The only reason ganks don't happen there is because CODE dare not venture in null.
And as for ganking a Skiff in highsec and turning a profit ..... there is no ISK profit. There may be some strategic objective involved, a green killboard, or the allegedly "sweet tears". And fun I guess. Or maybe just :because:. But profit? What makes you think blowing up a regular T2 fit Skiff should turn a profit? Best possible drop is some 15k m3 of worthless ores and a couple of mods and drones. Clearly profit does not factor into the equation. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17606
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 09:10:22 -
[118] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:"Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is?"
It's not. The only reason ganks don't happen there is because CODE dare not venture in null.
And as for ganking a Skiff in highsec and turning a profit ..... there is no ISK profit. There may be some strategic objective involved, a green killboard, or the allegedly "sweet tears". And fun I guess. Or maybe just :because:. But profit? What makes you think blowing up a regular T2 fit Skiff should turn a profit? Best possible drop is some 15k m3 of worthless ores and a couple of mods and drones. Clearly profit does not factor into the equation.
Mining barges are the only subcaps you can't turn a profit on. If you fit t2 mods on any subcap and fit zero tank you can turn a profit.
For example a zealot with t2 guns, damage mods, tracking and so on but no tank mods can be blown up using a single gank ship and can turn a profit. Mining barges were buffed some time ago so that even if you fit zero tank on them your can't turn a profit killing them. This makes them unique in the subcap lineup. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
43
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Posted - 2016.05.03 09:16:08 -
[119] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null. Riddle me this, why is nullsec safer for mining than hisec is? Well in Null you've got NBSI. So you know if someone is in the system that doesn't belong there because he isn't blue. And you get Intel if fleets are passing nearby systems. You just don't have these Infos in High. And in High there are often 30+ people Local so you can't check everyone. It's not per se safer but the way Null is handeled it is. And the profits are higher. I wouldn't wonder if a lot of hard-core-players are using their afk-alt-miners to turn a nice profit for their main. |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
782
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Posted - 2016.05.03 09:25:02 -
[120] - Quote
Burn my bumping, kill my awox, you can't take the skies from us! |
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