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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 07:31:00 -
[1]
Isnt it funny that the whole tradingskill folder is full with skills wich effect the max range between you, your warez while buying/selling them. Its impossible to train the ability of the char to buy/sell with a greater profit than the others. So the newbieminer gets the same isk than the boss of the biggest mining corporation in the galaxy.
What about change the name from tradingskills to intergalactic comunication skills?
*shackes head*
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Ras Blumin
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.21 08:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 21/02/2007 08:07:53
Iirc, there are only "3" skills that affect anything with range outta like 10-15 or so trading skills in total, so "full" is an exhaggeration imo. And there's skills that reduce sales tax and broker fees, which could result in potentially higher profits.
Short version: Read The F***ing Market 
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Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Ivy Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.21 09:39:00 -
[3]
How the skills are is just perfect for me. Trade is the one aspect of Eve where PvP is at it's purest. Because it's me making or loosing isk because of my own 'real life skills' against other players 'real life skills'.
It's the one aspect of Eve that doesn't put an emphasis on just stacking 'game skills' and mods together to get you part of Eve crunching more numbers faster then the guy you are fighting against, as what Eve combat PvP boils down too.
I hope and prey, that this is one thing that the devs never change, or at least never move it from being the one part of the game you do have to think about
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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 09:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Diamond Valen on 21/02/2007 09:49:12
I didnt had in mind that i want skills to compete in trade with other players. What i meant was that there should be a skill wich gives me a percent bonus at profit at buying, that extra money doesnt have to be taken from the one who buys my warez or sells what i buy. And when both have that skill they gain both the profit. Every kind of skills give bonuse to the effect, mining, energyoutput, cpucapacity, hullstrenght, shieldstrenght. Why not at trading?
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Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 09:54:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 09:53:51
Free money by a skill is what you are describing?
(How that for an trade exploit then. :)
The idea why there is no need for some skills to make profit is that EVE market is very close simulation (actually emulation is better word) for real world economics - and it works rather well. And, in real world economics there is no free money source.
Free money only increses the inflation of currency.
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V.H. |
Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 09:58:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
Free money by a skill is what you are describing?
How that for an trade exploit then. :)
So its no exploit to get one more turret in a frigate than in a battleship, cause the frigate user has level 5 at electronic and engeneering and the battleship owner doesnt have the skills?
But get more money with velspar (with that tradeskill) than for omber (without that tradeskill) is exploit?
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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 09:53:51And, in real world economics there is no free money source.
Really?
I guess a salesmen who sold warez 20 years can make more money with a kind warez than a salesmen who just is in his first year.
I mean you can push your char to the superweapen mega soldier of devastation but when you have a lag in trading in real life you should leave the game cause you wont be able to compensate it.
Well now i know why everyone says that charisma is the most useless attribut in the game cause tradingskills are the only use for it.
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Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Diamond Valen
So its no exploit to get one more turret in a frigate than in a battleship, cause the frigate user has level 5 at electronic and engeneering and the battleship owner doesnt have the skills?
But get more money with velspar (with that tradeskill) than for omber (without that tradeskill) is exploit?
That electronics/engineering does not bring any free-advantage to game. You spend time to get little more CPU/PG and be able to fit more guns.
It's different thing still... fitting a one extra gun does not guarantee you 100% win over the pilot with one less gun.
The reason why you get more money from veldspar could be that is it more profitable to mine and sell it - it is needed more, sellers market. No exploit there. (having that with/with-out tradeskill there does not matter)
The trade exploit (if there would be a skill that would increase profit) would be to sell your your alt and back - and make profit without selling stuff (since you own your account and the alt). If the skill is percentage of money transfered, just use billions... free money -> economy melts.
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V.H. |
Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:06:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Diamond Valen
Well now i know why everyone says that charisma is the most useless attribut in the game cause tradingskills are the only use for it.
Please check the Leadership skills, charisma ain't that useless anymore.
;)
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V.H. |
Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:12:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 10:11:00
Originally by: Diamond Valen
Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 09:53:51And, in real world economics there is no free money source.
Really?
I guess a salesmen who sold warez 20 years can make more money with a kind warez than a salesmen who just is in his first year.
It's called experience in trading, not just skills (by reading a book). You do understand the difference between experience (by doing things) compared to skills (by reading a book).
Originally by: Diamond Valen
Well now i know why everyone says that charisma is the most useless attribut in the game cause tradingskills are the only use for it.
Please check the Leadership skills, charisma ain't that useless anymore. Since it's needed in the large fleet combat (fleet structurization and leadership bonuses distribution), it came usefull over-night in one patch. :)
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V.H. |
Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:14:00 -
[11]
Than an exploit is already possible, with a specialice ore refining skill, the general refining skill and the refining effecenincy at level 5 you can buy ore from the market, refine it perfectly and sell the minerals without even leaving the station. Well it takes time to skill all those skills but...whatever.
I guess the secret is simply that the danger someone could conquer the game without having to challenge the pvp gods of the game is a to big menace for you that you better stop that idea at the basic.
Why change something witch fits me so well (?).
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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
Originally by: Diamond Valen
Originally by: Vir Hellnamin
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 09:53:51And, in real world economics there is no free money source.
Really?
I guess a salesmen who sold warez 20 years can make more money with a kind warez than a salesmen who just is in his first year.
Yes i understand, sadly you have no controle about targeting your weapons with the mouse, so i guess the char readed a book how to do that and became a master.
Cool no more need for military schools, just give the recruits their gun books and when they finish it they are ready for rambo missions. :)
It's called experience in trading, not just skills (by reading a book). You do understand the difference between experience (by doing things) compared to skills (by reading a book).
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Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 10:20:31
Originally by: Diamond Valen
Than an exploit is already possible, with a specialice ore refining skill, the general refining skill and the refining effecenincy at level 5 you can buy ore from the market, refine it perfectly and sell the minerals without even leaving the station. Well it takes time to skill all those skills but...whatever.'
That's not an exploit:
You buy ore from a pilot who mined it (spend time to work as a miner), and sell it. You really do not bring free money to economy (since the trade is from one pilot to another).
Exploitable would be:
If you could buy Shuttles from NPC market, refine them and sell the minerals for higher price than the shuttle buy price. (since NPC market has infinite supply in long run, free money!)
Originally by: Diamond Valen
I guess the secret is simply that the danger someone could conquer the game without having to challenge the pvp gods of the game is a to big menace for you that you better stop that idea at the basic.
Actually I think price-wars are quite common in galaxy. Just under-cut prices and see what happens (if you have enough back-up, corner a market).
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V.H. |
Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:38:00 -
[14]
Well ok it could become exploitable when not made in limits. Dont forget you still have to sell or buy somthing, you cant sell a box of air.^^ A one percent bonus to the price without the skill, per skill level would mean 5% max additional isk.
In eve is no way to exchange isk into real life money like in other games, so i really dont understand the problem you see. With the extra money the super trader could buy the new ship a bit faster, while the super gunner can shoot more ships wich gives more bounty or the super engineer fly faster and sell more ore in an hour... Every skill in the game means an advantage wich could be exploited in some way.
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Cedart
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:47:00 -
[15]
I hope this is a troll..
So, are you really saying that it would be a good idea that with a skill, i would get 5% more money that the buyer paid? So i sell one veldspar ore to my alt for 1 bil, and my alt pays 1 bil, but my main gets 1 bil + 50 mil. And then my alt sells that same ore back to my main, and now my main loses one bil, but my alt gains 1 bil +50 mil. That's 50 mil free money every transaction!!
People should really learn to engage brain before posting...
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Vir Hellnamin
Minmatar
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.21 10:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 21/02/2007 10:54:17
No, I think this is the rookie forums :D
Thank you for the example, I was just writing similar that would explain the +5% profit and repeating things for some time.
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V.H. |
Cedart
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2007.02.21 11:10:00 -
[17]
Yeah, fair enough.. haven't actually checked how old player she actually is. But that kind of system works ONLY in single player games or in games where you cant sell anything to other players. Not in a game like this where almost everything is mined or ratted or made by players.
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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 11:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cedart
People should really learn to engage brain before posting...
Thanks for the softflame, you are very kind.
Ok that IS an exploit. Than i think everything in this game is perfect cause noone of you supersmart brainheads already came with an idea like that.
Excuse me that i "used my brain" and posted what it produced.
Another cup you can place on your desk einstein.
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Cedart
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2007.02.21 11:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cedart on 21/02/2007 12:01:10
Originally by: Diamond Valen
In eve is no way to exchange isk into real life money like in other games, so i really dont understand the problem you see.
Sorry to say but you are wrong. There are lots of sites selling isk for real life money. And there is even a totally legal way to buy isk with RL cash (GTC sales).
Originally by: Diamond Valen
With the extra money the super trader could buy the new ship a bit faster
I don't really see why traders should make any more money, considering that trading already is the best, and least time consuming, way to make isk.
PS: Not a flame, but i really can't make sense of some of your posts. I presume you are not a native english speaker?
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Diamond Valen
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.21 12:03:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Diamond Valen on 21/02/2007 12:01:02
Originally by: Cedart
I presume you are not native a english speaker?
Correct, i am german so it may happen that i dont know the words for everything i mean, that i have to use a sentense for things wich could be typed with that words.
But hey as i began to play on english game servers all i knew was my limited school english so i guess i advanced alot^^
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2007.02.21 12:26:00 -
[21]
The skills accounting and broker relations do exactly what you want. If you don't have the skills, you'll get less cash from trading (buying and selling) than when you do have them. Or, put another way, you'll get more cash from trading with those skills than without. (That's what you wanted right?) The difference is significant for any semi-serious trader.
=AFK=
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Sandeep
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.02.21 13:25:00 -
[22]
Margin Trading
At maximum level, you only pay 24% upfront to place a buy order. That means if you want to buy and sell 10000 amount of something, e.g. Veldspar and you only have enough to afford 2400 units, you can place a buy order of 10000 units, and when someone sells you about 1000 units, make a profit on that, and keep going.
It gives you more time value of money.
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(1) Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.
(2) Bare minimum skill means that you can only undock with it and nothing else.
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Baka Lakadaka
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Posted - 2007.02.22 02:27:00 -
[23]
There's a law of economics somewhere that states "you get what the buyer pays".....you don't get what the buyer pays + 1% or any other percentage.
Look at the real world - you buy a litre of milk and hand over your money - while the money is on the counter it doesn't add 1% or 2% because the shopkeeper is a very skilled shopkeeper. He makes his money buy buying smart and lowering costs.
The ISK comes from buying low and selling high, or by increasing your skills/faction standings to reduce your costs (e.g. higher trade skills = lower tax). There are skills in trade that you can train which will lower your costs.
Unless you can convince your buyer to part with more money, you're never going to get more (pre-tax) money for selling (or anywhere else).
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