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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Rollo Brinalle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2016.05.03 02:32:14 -
[1] - Quote
I have to say this is a key feature that is missing. I though it would be available if there is a market hub but not seeing that. Am I missing something or is this not a thing and if it is NOT a thing it really SHOULD BE a thing.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
475
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Posted - 2016.05.03 02:59:04 -
[2] - Quote
Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example. |
Rollo Brinalle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2016.05.03 03:04:54 -
[3] - Quote
Cool it's a thing and it works and you don't even need to have a market set up to do it, which is nice. |
Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2016.05.03 03:29:08 -
[4] - Quote
That seems like a pretty major oversight.
Eli Stan wrote:Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example. That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
318
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Posted - 2016.05.03 03:38:02 -
[5] - Quote
Kaska Iskalar wrote:That seems like a pretty major oversight. Eli Stan wrote:Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example. That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right? CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.
If you don't want to use delivery, then contract the items which is coming to Citadels shortly. |
Rollo Brinalle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2016.05.03 06:23:29 -
[6] - Quote
I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
374
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Posted - 2016.05.03 07:56:32 -
[7] - Quote
Rollo Brinalle wrote:I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.
the entire citadel structure has been rolled out without any thought process into alliance management. which is the biggest flaw of all time.. but hey.. let the stupids be stupid
incredible rushed product.. guess they had to beat competition coming their way |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44681
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Posted - 2016.05.03 08:12:06 -
[8] - Quote
Rollo Brinalle wrote:I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.
When the ability to contract in a Citadel is added, then it will be possible to setup contracts just like now.
So with a market module added and contracts, it should be possible to supply an Alliance out of a Citadel. If it's just handing out ships at the start of a roam (or getting back again at the end), then the delivery method will work.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Gil Warden
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2016.05.03 08:12:58 -
[9] - Quote
Kaska Iskalar wrote:That seems like a pretty major oversight. Eli Stan wrote:Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example. That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right?
CCP essentially did this in Dust, and as it turned out, making a trade system that essentially favours the least honest participant exclusively turned out really well for the scammers. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
205
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Posted - 2016.05.03 10:11:15 -
[10] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:guess they had to beat competition coming their way
And what competition would that be, the only thing even remotely close would be star citizen but thats not going to be ready for about a decade :P |
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Kharamete
Royal Assent
152
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Posted - 2016.05.03 10:21:45 -
[11] - Quote
To be honest, at this point I'm on the verge of trusting random people who are leaving the game with a hangar clearance in Jita and Amarr local more than I trust that Star Citizen will see the light of day before the 2030s.
CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
My little youtube videos can be found here
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Rollo Brinalle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2016.05.03 14:41:25 -
[12] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Rollo Brinalle wrote:I think a bigger issue is the inability to trade things or provide stuff at the alliance level. Fitted ships and the such. With ownership of citadels at the corp level this seems to be a blocking issue. Not sure if there is a plan in the future to provide this next level of access or there is a current work around or method I'm just not seeing.
When the ability to contract in a Citadel is added, then it will be possible to setup contracts just like now. So with a market module added and contracts, it should be possible to supply an Alliance out of a Citadel. If it's just handing out ships at the start of a roam (or getting back again at the end), then the delivery method will work.
You can't "Deliver" fitted ships only empty hulls. So bring out the contracts but I'm thinking more for here is a bunch of fitted ship in the event of X get one if you need it. Let's make the game easier to get into fights not more time intensive.
It seems that a lot of these issues could be solved by tying the structure to the Alliance level. There could be current code limitations to do that; however, if life is to be made easier with Citadels and prosperous then the structure needs to be scaled up. |
Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.03 16:28:33 -
[13] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote: CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.
I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.
I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
201
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Posted - 2016.05.03 16:31:33 -
[14] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.
I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system.
That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO.
You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.03 16:41:47 -
[15] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Charley Varrick wrote:I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.
I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system. That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO. You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process.
Guess my conclusion is correct then. They don't want to. Which is fine...I was just pointing out that it could be done if they wanted to.
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NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
995
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Posted - 2016.05.03 18:13:25 -
[16] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:Charley Varrick wrote:I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept.
I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system. That's a very WOW, SWTOR, etc. MMO standard trade model. EVE isn't a standard MMO. You contract trades that way each side has some control over the terms and verification process. Guess my conclusion is correct then. They don't want to. Which is fine...I was just pointing out that it could be done if they wanted to. Those are also later code models. Its quite plausible the trade window is yet another original code system that needs to be replaced. Hence why we are now getting Contracts 2.0 soon. Oh and boosters in all sec as well. |
Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
57
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Posted - 2016.05.03 20:52:34 -
[17] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Kaska Iskalar wrote:That seems like a pretty major oversight. Eli Stan wrote:Instead of a trade window, you deliver the item to the other person's deliveries hangar. I haven't personally done it, but I understand the interface is a bit clunky - you can only type in the character's name, not drag and drop, for example. That doesn't replace trade windows. It's not a transaction. It's 1 way. Give me a Nestor and a Machariel. I promise I'll drop the ISK in your deliveries hanger afterwards. You can trust me, right? CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams. If you don't want to use delivery, then contract the items which is coming to Citadels shortly. Source? There's nothing a scammer can do with contracts they can't do with a trade window. Either way they're relying on the victim not paying attention to the numbers. The only difference is that with a trade window the scammer might have his angry victim waiting for him when he undocks since they're both in the same place. You're not scared of risk are you? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44682
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Posted - 2016.05.03 21:05:08 -
[18] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: CCP are going away from the trade wi doe approach. Too a usable by scams.
I never understood why they cant make a secure trade system. I've seen it in other games and it's really simple. Basically, once a trade window is open, trader 1 drags items to trade and sets price then submits. Trader 2 enters price or items and then submits. Any changes by either party once submitted cancels trade window. Once both parties are submitted then they both can accept. I can only conclude that they don't want a secure trade system. The trade window actually works ok.
Once you put something in, you can't remove it again and any change made in the window on one side does cancel the 'accept' of the other side in my experience. Adding ISK also cancels the accept of the other person.
It's that last bit that allows scammers to use it and yeah, it would be great if changes in the ISK offered cancelled all accepts.
I think scammers get away with it because they put the ISK value in and accept first, so the other person sees a green tick with the right amount. They then put their items (eg. PLEX, BPCs) in the trade window and accept, but that cancels the accept of the scammer because the contents of the trade window changes. So the scammer gets to adjust the ISK offered and then accept again.
For most things it works fine, but as always people should know what they are doing.
Personally I like the fact that the game provides quirks that can be used by scammers. I don't play the game to just float in a safety bubble. I like that I have to know mechanics and be at least on par with the knowledge of others or they might take advantage. That's part of the challenge of the game for me and one of the core reasons Eve is so good in my opinion.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1504
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Posted - 2016.05.04 14:54:38 -
[19] - Quote
Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut.
CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2847
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:03:02 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut. Does this mean that you are introducing taxes to contracts?
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
209
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:08:32 -
[21] - Quote
Rather than calling it a trade tax, you should call it an escrow fee as that is essentially what it is.
I like the drag and drop stuff, but you should also allow security permissions to let one character TAKE stuff from another if they are authorized, like you can with a corporation.
Case in point. My corpmate forgot a blueprint in her item hangar and went on vacation. I couldn't build any of that item until she got home and moved it. If she had given me permissions to use her item hangar, I could've retrieved it and kept building stuff. It's like someone giving you the key to their house.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
406357
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:13:17 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut.
I'm curious, is it a design decision to not have station trading in citadels or a technical limitation? If it's a design decision to get rid of the trade window, what's the reasoning behind it?
-k8
My Fanclub
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
1504
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:16:19 -
[23] - Quote
Commissar Kate wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut. I'm curious, is it a design decision to not have station trading in citadels or a technical limitation? If it's a design decision to get rid of the trade window, what's the reasoning behind it?
It's mostly a technical reason, the trade window is a mess and very much all tied up with stations. It is also partly a design reason in that contracts *should* be fulfilling the role of the trade window, it is just the UI could use some love.
CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:55:43 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:the UI could use some love. As somebody who just recently got in to dealing with courier contracts, this makes me all tingly inside. |
Commissar Kate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
406358
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Posted - 2016.05.04 15:57:32 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Commissar Kate wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut. I'm curious, is it a design decision to not have station trading in citadels or a technical limitation? If it's a design decision to get rid of the trade window, what's the reasoning behind it? It's mostly a technical reason, the trade window is a mess and very much all tied up with stations. It is also partly a design reason in that contracts *should* be fulfilling the role of the trade window, it is just the UI could use some love. Awesome, thanks for that!
-k8
My Fanclub
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2442
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Posted - 2016.05.04 16:06:41 -
[26] - Quote
Is this "deliver to" a new feature? Never spotted it before ... if so you may want to consider the potential abuse of this feature for RMT. Also in the light of the recent "give money" incidents, an option to reject the gift on the receiver side would be handy.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5808
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Posted - 2016.05.05 13:27:27 -
[27] - Quote
Zappity wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Right now in Citadels you can drag an item (or items) onto a character in the guest list / any chat window / your contacts and it will send it to their deliveries hangar in that Citadel. They don't need to be online or require you to accept it which is handy for just sending characters you know or an alt stuff. This works for fitted ships or anything else in your hangar or the corp hangar. You can also right click items and pick "Deliver To" and search for any character to send them stuff.
For secure trade we are bringing contracts to Citadels very soon, in which case you can ask for items or ISK in return and the SCC takes a cut. Does this mean that you are introducing taxes to contracts?
Sales tax of 1% applies to public contracts, but not to private ones.
If they add tax to privates, there is an easy and secure workaround using courier contracts. You decide to buy my battleship BPO for 1700m ISK and I agree. I put up a private courier contract to you with 1700m collateral and minimal payment to a station in the same system. You accept the contract, look inside it, then once you verify the BPO is there, intentionally fail it.
Working around this is possible but might break courier contracts entirely.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5808
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Posted - 2016.05.05 13:28:45 -
[28] - Quote
Kharamete wrote:To be honest, at this point I'm on the verge of trusting random people who are leaving the game with a hangar clearance in Jita and Amarr local more than I trust that Star Citizen will see the light of day before the 2030s.
Star Citizen seems like a scam Bad Bobby would be proud of
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Rollo Brinalle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2016.05.06 05:58:39 -
[29] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Rather than calling it a trade tax, you should call it an escrow fee as that is essentially what it is.
I like the drag and drop stuff, but you should also allow security permissions to let one character TAKE stuff from another if they are authorized, like you can with a corporation.
Case in point. My corpmate forgot a blueprint in her item hangar and went on vacation. I couldn't build any of that item until she got home and moved it. If she had given me permissions to use her item hangar, I could've retrieved it and kept building stuff. It's like someone giving you the key to their house.
There is divisional / corp hanger in the citadel. The citadel is no different then a POS with a personal hanger (Item Hanger) and a corp hanger. This problem can exist now if your corp mate put the BP into a personal hanger of a POS. |
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