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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Siri Blue
Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:46:00 -
[181]
The simplest and best solution still is to INCREASE the rate of the T2 BPO seeding a LOT! Create competition! Let there be 10 or 20 times the current number of BPOs and keep seeding new BPOS! This way the old BPOs will drop in value considerably and new T2 producers will finally enter the market and create competition that will finally bring T2 prices down! SEED MORE I say! Also...Seed limited run BPCs from agents for 25% of the collected RP, LOTS of those... More BPOs and BPCs! Create competition! NOW!
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LongTallSally
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:52:00 -
[182]
1. Seed T2 BPO to market 2. All T2 BPO owners scream, before they find out they can make money on selling components instead of ships 3. Everybody happy again, hurraah...
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Siri Blue
Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:54:00 -
[183]
Originally by: LongTallSally 1. Seed T2 BPO to market 2. All T2 BPO owners scream, before they find out they can make money on selling components instead of ships 3. Everybody happy again, hurraah...
Seeding T2 BPOs on the market is fine as long as they also require at least a few RP to buy...
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:54:00 -
[184]
Originally by: LongTallSally 1. Seed T2 BPO to market 2. All T2 BPO owners scream, before they find out they can make money on selling components instead of ships 3. Everybody happy again, hurraah...
4. Let people trade rp's for bpo's 5k module bpo, 50k af bpo, 200k hac bpo, 300k command bpo, etc
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Lunhara Darkblade
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:54:00 -
[185]
TBH I have tried invention don't really like it.
I started doing invention it first came it was unreliable and a huge investment. The benefits just aren't good enough.
I would like to see an RP store similar to the LP store mentioned in the mission blog.
You will be ale to buy limited run bpc's with RP with varying me.
so for example you could by a 1 run bpc with really good me or a 2 or 3 run bpc with poor me etc.
With lots of RP getting 50 run bpc's
Also if no more BPO's are going to be released then all the current BPO's should become BPC's to level the playing field. Most have made more than their fair share of isk from them now anyways.
Yes I am a tech 2 BPO holder nothing fancy but it does earn me about 300-400 mil per month.
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AceOfSpace
Myth...
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:54:00 -
[186]
It seems to me that the only thing this will achieve is to make getting a bpo impossible, rather than just very unlikely. This only increases the advantage that bpo-owners already have, and makes people with a lot of RPs quite bitter. I know I could probably get a huge amount of bpc stuff for my RPs, but, dammit, that's not why I've been saving them
I thought that t2 was supposed to become more and more 'normal' as eve moves forward. This would do the opposite. A big mountain of BPCs doesn't appeal to me even slightly
-it's my job to do it- |
Rook Falcon
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:58:00 -
[187]
point 1) - T2 prices will never be cheap, T2 is market driven, what this means ? it will be always charged as high as people are willing to buy, if people pay 1010101% more - then why charge less?
point 2) - invention, shure, if no lottery will ever happen again it will probably take flight, on other hand, until all elements are "gatherable" from any point in eve verse this will never work as people will monopolize source elements and limit progression.
point 3) - remove BPO's? get a f*****g life, what has been given is given and keep hands off it.
people are never equal nor they ever will be.
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Donmadefy
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:14:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Donmadefy on 22/02/2007 15:10:20
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen
Originally by: LongTallSally 1. Seed T2 BPO to market 2. All T2 BPO owners scream, before they find out they can make money on selling components instead of ships 3. Everybody happy again, hurraah...
4. Let people trade rp's for bpo's 5k module bpo, 50k af bpo, 200k hac bpo, 300k command bpo, etc
that's the idea I came up with ... although I started a different thread to try and give it some air!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=480324
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Little Bo'peep
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:17:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Little Bo''peep on 22/02/2007 15:16:33 I have not lost faith in the bpo lottery system!! It was a little blip...big deal...Eve rolls on. It's a very small percentage of very loud whiners that are causing a stink over this. Please do not listen to them. Keep the t2 bpo lottery or prices are going to skyrocket even more.
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Elrich Zann
Minmatar Hidden Agenda
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:21:00 -
[190]
Since you asked for a opinion, I will give one. As a qualifier, I do not build anything, and doubt I will ever train the skills to do invention. I am simply an end user. The prices of t2 components, while high are imo not unreasonable. Invention will help drive the price down by making t2 items more available. From my point of view, the prices of t2 items reached their lofty points by increasing demand (increasing numbers of players) without increasing supply. Invention can potentially offset that, I would say we are heading in the correct direction.
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Siri Blue
Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:23:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Elrich Zann Since you asked for a opinion, I will give one. As a qualifier, I do not build anything, and doubt I will ever train the skills to do invention. I am simply an end user. The prices of t2 components, while high are imo not unreasonable. Invention will help drive the price down by making t2 items more available. From my point of view, the prices of t2 items reached their lofty points by increasing demand (increasing numbers of players) without increasing supply. Invention can potentially offset that, I would say we are heading in the correct direction.
Ten times the players in game just needs ten times the BPOs seeded. Period.
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Taizu Lilith
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:25:00 -
[192]
Originally by: LongTallSally 1. Seed T2 BPO to market 2. All T2 BPO owners scream, before they find out they can make money on selling components instead of ships 3. Everybody happy again, hurraah...
Not those of us whose skills and efforts to do R&D are suddenly all worthless.
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Adam Coyle
Caldari Vesa Supply Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:28:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Adam Coyle on 22/02/2007 15:29:48 Do not remove the T2 BPO lottery. Change it instead so that all T2 BPO (both old and new) goes into the lottery at a fixed number per month based on the subscription rate. This will lead to old T2 stuff to get cheaper and new one still hold that rare status that is so exiting in this game. This way also makes old pilots to turn down some T2 offers if they already have a bunch of T2 BPOs, but are waiting for that new shiny thing. So if turned down offers goes back into the lottery, next time it might go to a new pilot who do not have any T2 BPOs before. After a while some T2 BPOs are so common that the patent for that particular stuff has run out and the T2 BPO gets seeded on the market. But even when the T2 BPO is seeded on the market it should not be removed from the lottery, since for new players it can still be worth a fortune to be handed that BPO for "free" and not have to accumulate enough ISK to be able to buy it from market.
Invention. I like it, but it still needs to be trimmed a lot. Some components are still extremely rare, some of these are not rare beacuse the drop rate is to low. It is rare beacuse it is so dangerous to go into those hacking dungeons that only extremly skilled, daring and wealthy pilots can afford loosing the ships it takes to hack enough boxes to find the stuff. This is fine by me, as long as those components can be used for something comparable good and rewarding.
Note: I have two accounts that are running 5 lvl4 R&D agents each. Have been running those agents for about 2 years now and have not had any luck until recently when I got two new shiny BPOs (one ammo and one turret). So please let me get some reward for my invested time and money (both real cash and ISK) before you scrap my BPOs.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:51:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Elrich Zann Since you asked for a opinion, I will give one. As a qualifier, I do not build anything, and doubt I will ever train the skills to do invention. I am simply an end user. The prices of t2 components, while high are imo not unreasonable. Invention will help drive the price down by making t2 items more available. From my point of view, the prices of t2 items reached their lofty points by increasing demand (increasing numbers of players) without increasing supply. Invention can potentially offset that, I would say we are heading in the correct direction.
You talking bout tech 2 components as in the components needed to build the tech 2 modules right? Those are fair cheap. Because also as a end user paying 13m for a module that costs 136k to build is fair in my country.
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ShadowWalker Nivlac
Gallente Quasar Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:54:00 -
[195]
You want to "balance" the BPO field then model the RD agent payout like a normal mission agent. The specific skills would still be needed however the less RP you turn in gets you a lower run copy or "less desireable" (ie 5 run copy of an interdictor vs a 5 run Hulk BPC) The higher amount of RP you turn in could get you a BPO. Everyone still has the opportunity to get the BPCs and those who wait it out will be rewarded with a BPO. If you are truely interested in leveling the BPO field then ALL blueprints need to be in the above reward system - this gives access to all the players not just those who have been in game for 4 years.
BTW I own an Eris BPO so the above lowers the value of having it but also gives me and everyone the chance for other BPC/BPO. I look at Invention and think "good idea gone bad"
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:58:00 -
[196]
YES! BUT... you need to turn the BPOs need to be turned into huge-run BPCs, or else the T2 BPO owners will get even richer as time goes by.
Anyways, IBTL
Originally by: Glenntwo You should be an anti pirate because you enjoy giving a player who is looking for an unfair fight an extremely unfair fight
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Donrell
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:00:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky
Originally by: Donrell Please make sure that there always is a fair supply of ALL t2 items.
Supply and demand, as soon as some item rise in price (profit margin) a bunch of inventors will take the opportunity to plug that hole until next item become high in demand. Don't underestimate the market forces, especially on an unregulated market without supply limitations.
I don't underestimate market forces. But what makes you think that with a pure supply based on bpc's people will even bother making items that sell a max of 10 a week region wide for lets say less then 1M profit? (And not forgetting you can only make a low number(<10) of those items per day. T2 has a rather bigger production time than T1.) Low demand means not a whole lot of people will be making the item in question. And thus also a low supply. Because why make it? Profit margin is low and it doesn't sell that well either. I'd better switch to an item that sells more so I get more isk back for it. So who will make those low profit low demand T2 items?
Thing is, will it drive prices up or down? I think it will drive prices on those low demand T2 items up. And that bothers me. With T2 bpo's in the picture we will always have some supply. Some baseline. Which if it's too high, people will invent. If not, it means it's at a fair prices for the demand for it. And if that means a 300% profit margin on a item that sell 10 a week in a region, so be it. And that '300%' profit margin is a market decision. BPO owners need to conform to the 'xx%' profit margin or else more people will invent the item in question and thus lower the profit margin for them.
Drop the bpo's and base it on just bpc's could mean some items wont get made or in very low numbers. And thus wont be reasonable priced. That part worries me. And just having blind fate in market forces doesn't really comfort me on that part.
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emepror
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:03:00 -
[198]
OMG THIS IS GONA BE AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!
(but all i want now is a nice shiny t2 bpo please)
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Vansard
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:04:00 -
[199]
Trying to fix the T2 BPO issue without really developing the scientist career path doesn't make much sense to me. The true problem what a scientist is in eve? Because after being a lottery ticked, it becomes a datacore gatherer with some datacore/euro(usd) ratio.
If this is the way it's gonna be fixed, then as far as I'm concerned you can make them drop casually into players hangars. I only shows that there is no realy strategy at CCP to develope non-combat gameplay.
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:32:00 -
[200]
This will tenfold if not 100 fold the value of t2 bpos over time. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
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DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:36:00 -
[201]
Originally by: ShadowWalker Nivlac You want to "balance" the BPO field then model the RD agent payout like a normal mission agent. The specific skills would still be needed however the less RP you turn in gets you a lower run copy or "less desireable" (ie 5 run copy of an interdictor vs a 5 run Hulk BPC) The higher amount of RP you turn in could get you a BPO. Everyone still has the opportunity to get the BPCs and those who wait it out will be rewarded with a BPO. If you are truely interested in leveling the BPO field then ALL blueprints need to be in the above reward system - this gives access to all the players not just those who have been in game for 4 years.
Good idea actually, as long as BPOs that have been handed out are flagged as handed out and monitored for use and existance so that when they arent used anymore or are destroyed that the are available as RP rewards again. Plus the RP rewards would need to be raised with the amount of active players. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery |
Corita
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:43:00 -
[202]
Originally by: DrAtomic This will tenfold if not 100 fold the value of t2 bpos over time.
Why? The only thing that decide t2 BPO prices are the profit they generate. Plus a possible influence by the convinience for large groups to benefit internally from them, like cheap supply (production cost) of t2 guns or ships for 0.0 pvp based entities.
BPO prices will follow the profit of the item it produces. The profit level can be player moderated with invention. Not saying invetion is perfect today, but it could be.
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maria stallion
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:46:00 -
[203]
Edited by: maria stallion on 22/02/2007 16:48:17 okay I have seen somethings getting writen by people without having any base of proof.
1 statement: invention can't compete against tech2 bpo's answer: so you are telling me you spended 1 billion to invent a 5run vagabond bpc? those things sell for 250mil a piece and to do one invention job you pay 250mil. so you got 5 chances to get it right, trust me that is more then enough.
2 statement: tech2 bpo should be on the market for everyone. answer: tech2 are meant to be elite, not a replacement of tech1. If this happends you will have a forum full off topics like this: nerf the vagabond, nerf this, nerf that, why? because they will be used like inty's. Opening up the tech2 market will ruin the balance in battles for good.
3 statement: Tech2 bpo need to be removed answer: okay so if you remove the bpo's what will happen to the tech2 market? will prices go down? NO, offcourse not the prices will only go UP! For inventions you don't need tech2 bpo, they are the direct competitor for tech2 bpo's and everyone that knows only a tiny bit of economics knows that prices will drop when there is competions. You can improve invention without taking out the bpo's some tech2 mods and ships are allready rockbottom, if you remove the bpo's those price will go sky high, result: more whinning.
4 statement: tech2 is only for the tech2 bpo owners answer: go to 0.0 shoot some npc within a couple of days you got your tech2 ship.
Things are fine the way they are, most people shouting the above statements don't know eve enough, haven't used inventions properly or just got cash in there eyes. The devs need to look at exploration and making it easier to start inventions that's all.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:52:00 -
[204]
Remove old BPO and make them large run of BPC. its the only way to break the HUGE damage that the BPOs caused. Or they will continue to flow to the most powerfull aliances and the oens with them will be stronger and stronger...
And the R&D agents could from time to time drop you a very high run BPC (so the ones with huge RP can get something).
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
lu kim
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:55:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove old BPO and make them large run of BPC. its the only way to break the HUGE damage that the BPOs caused. Or they will continue to flow to the most powerfull aliances and the oens with them will be stronger and stronger...
And the R&D agents could from time to time drop you a very high run BPC (so the ones with huge RP can get something).
what do you wan to reach with that? it won't lower the prices it will only raise prices and that's it.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:59:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 22/02/2007 16:56:32 forget..
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Max Teranous
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:59:00 -
[207]
The fundamental problem with asking for feedback from the player base as a whole is that most people don't have a bloody clue about economics, game design and cause & effects of various changes they suggest.
Not that I know either mind, just making the point that's all.
Max
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Daenrys
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:01:00 -
[208]
Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 22/02/2007 16:48:17 okay I have seen somethings getting writen by people without having any base of proof.
1 statement: invention can't compete against tech2 bpo's answer: so you are telling me you spended 1 billion to invent a 5run vagabond bpc? those things sell for 250mil a piece and to do one invention job you pay 250mil. so you got 5 chances to get it right, trust me that is more then enough.
2 statement: tech2 bpo should be on the market for everyone. answer: tech2 are meant to be elite, not a replacement of tech1. If this happends you will have a forum full off topics like this: nerf the vagabond, nerf this, nerf that, why? because they will be used like inty's. Opening up the tech2 market will ruin the balance in battles for good.
1 - Wrong You have to compare production cost between a 'BPo' and a 'BPc invented'.
BPo = 0 BPc = Datacore Price + bad ME
Except if datacore cost is reduced to 0 ISK .. there will be no competition between BPo holder and invention.
2 - Typical reply from a BPO T2 holder who want to keep control of the market. T2 is no more suposed to be elite (from Dev Blog) but a baseline for everyone.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:02:00 -
[209]
Originally by: lu kim
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Remove old BPO and make them large run of BPC. its the only way to break the HUGE damage that the BPOs caused. Or they will continue to flow to the most powerfull aliances and the oens with them will be stronger and stronger...
And the R&D agents could from time to time drop you a very high run BPC (so the ones with huge RP can get something).
what do you wan to reach with that? it won't lower the prices it will only raise prices and that's it.
but will level the field/ I dont care if the prices are high, as long as they are high for everybody!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:03:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 22/02/2007 17:00:13
Originally by: maria stallion Edited by: maria stallion on 22/02/2007 16:48:17 okay I have seen somethings getting writen by people without having any base of proof.
1 statement: invention can't compete against tech2 bpo's answer: so you are telling me you spended 1 billion to invent a 5run vagabond bpc? those things sell for 250mil a piece and to do one invention job you pay 250mil. so you got 5 chances to get it right, trust me that is more then enough.
2 statement: tech2 bpo should be on the market for everyone. answer: tech2 are meant to be elite, not a replacement of tech1. If this happends you will have a forum full off topics like this: nerf the vagabond, nerf this, nerf that, why? because they will be used like inty's. Opening up the tech2 market will ruin the balance in battles for good.
3 statement: Tech2 bpo need to be removed answer: okay so if you remove the bpo's what will happen to the tech2 market? will prices go down? NO, offcourse not the prices will only go UP! For inventions you don't need tech2 bpo, they are the direct competitor for tech2 bpo's and everyone that knows only a tiny bit of economics knows that prices will drop when there is competions. You can improve invention without taking out the bpo's some tech2 mods and ships are allready rockbottom, if you remove the bpo's those price will go sky high, result: more whinning.
4 statement: tech2 is only for the tech2 bpo owners answer: go to 0.0 shoot some npc within a couple of days you got your tech2 ship.
Things are fine the way they are, most people shouting the above statements don't know eve enough, haven't used inventions properly or just got cash in there eyes. The devs need to look at exploration and making it easier to start inventions that's all.
Translation
1. I don't need to compete as I own all tech 2 bpos (hugs t20)
2. Tech 2 are meant to be elite, I'm elite, you go carebear for a few days/weeks to afford the precious tech 2 ships/modules I get for free, while I fit my l33t ship and go hunt you down.
3. Don't take away my precious i-win bpo's
4. Here I'm repeating myself, but go carebear while I pew pew, need people to carebear so I could sell them my tech 2 produts so I can pew pew some more.
Things are only fine if you in BoB/BoD
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