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hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
37
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Posted - 2011.12.18 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve.
At the moment I cannot fathom why someone would remain in an NPC corp for longer than a year, except to "evade" wardecs, and therefore exploit game mechanics and play counter to the "spirit" of Eve.
This idea is an extension of CCP's decision for an automatic 10% tax in all NPC corporations. Tax would, after perhaps a month, begin to increase at a rate of maybe 2% per week (just a figure I randomly came up with, there may be better ones).
Players would not be able to "reset" the tax by leaving and re-joining an NPC corp, as their previous tax would be remembered and continued from. Or if that's too harsh, maybe the amount of tax would slowly diminish as long as someone is outside the NPC corp, allowing them to spend some time outside before returning to less tax (that would then begin increasing again)
Maybe there could be a skill to reduce the rate of tax increase, not sure, just musing.
This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
262
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can't force people to play the way YOU want them too. People will either play the way they want to or they'll quit and play another game. |
Takeshi Yamato
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
46
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
hired goon wrote:This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer.
You have a strange idea of what 'encouraging' means. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
154
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just remove NPC corps and let dudes get individually wardec'd. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
320
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have a better idea. CCP should just give you free kms...
Oh wait, why is this a good thing again? |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2011.12.18 20:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
hired goon wrote:A simple idea to force people to become more involved in Eve the way I think they should.
Fixt. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
150
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Posted - 2011.12.18 21:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes because eve online is hired goon online.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
225
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Posted - 2011.12.18 22:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I mentioned this as an idea a LOOOOONG time ago. Supported. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
93
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Posted - 2011.12.19 00:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
hired goon wrote:A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve.
At the moment I cannot fathom why someone would remain in an NPC corp for longer than a year, except to "evade" wardecs, and therefore exploit game mechanics and play counter to the "spirit" of Eve.
This idea is an extension of CCP's decision for an automatic 10% tax in all NPC corporations. Tax would, after perhaps a month, begin to increase at a rate of maybe 2% per week (just a figure I randomly came up with, there may be better ones).
Players would not be able to "reset" the tax by leaving and re-joining an NPC corp, as their previous tax would be remembered and continued from. Or if that's too harsh, maybe the amount of tax would slowly diminish as long as someone is outside the NPC corp, allowing them to spend some time outside before returning to less tax (that would then begin increasing again)
Maybe there could be a skill to reduce the rate of tax increase, not sure, just musing.
This idea will encourage players who are essentially playing Eve as a single player grind to explore the pleasures of playing a multiplayer game in a manner that is also multiplayer. I'm assuming you mean "in my opinion". Your proposal is based on the idea that "all people in NPC corps aren't also in other corps". Well, maybe that toon isn't, but my hi-sec toons support me (when I need it) - and I haven't lived in hi-sec since Nov 2008.
I like encouraging people to explore different aspects of the game with carrots - I guess some people (OP) only understand the stick...
Edit to add: Not supported
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
38
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Posted - 2011.12.19 02:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
As in life, I believe in a mixture of carrot and stick. So far we have seen only carrot, as those affected by any stick threaten to unsubscribe (which never happens). I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion, as you will all be affected by it, though I believe it will objectively increase the "quality" of the game for everyone.
To expand on this, it is necessary to define "quality". Each player feels that different game aspects offer different levels of enjoyment, so will measure quality in different ways. However for the purposes of this idea I will define quality as "fun". Fun is an enjoyment of playing the game, and taking part in it's various offerings and interactions - the constantly changing variety and fresh challenges.
I contest that the actions of those who never leave NPC corps is not fun, as their range of activities is limited, and generally will always be closer to a mundane "grind" that simply earns money as fast as possible. This is closer to an addiction or chore than "fun" in the true sense, therefore is of a lower quality of game play. Someone must take responsibility for the people "stuck" in this manner, and if no amount of carrot will remedy the situation, it is my belief that a tiny stick should be employed.
I also believe this will not cause a mass unsubscribing, as the introduction of mandatory 10% NPC corp tax did not. It would also be arguable therefore that CCP could employ "salami tactics", such as introducing a similar 10% increase every two years, with minimal protest from the community.
This is not about killmails. It is about a worrying disconnect I feel with this mass of players, who it seems are playing a different game to me, and who I cannot interact with. Their ships may as well be a background animation, flowing through hisec gates and making the universe appear more alive.
I myself have a high sec alt, and wouldn't mind this change. In reality it does nothing to impede game play; players may simply join a player corp to avoid the tax. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
264
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Posted - 2011.12.19 03:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
hired goon wrote:I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion
There's a reason for that, it is just your opinion.
The point remains that forcing people to do stuff is a bad idea. /thread |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
322
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Posted - 2011.12.19 03:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
hired goon wrote: This is not about killmails. It is about a worrying disconnect I feel with this mass of players, who it seems are playing a different game to me, and who I cannot interact with. Their ships may as well be a background animation, flowing through hisec gates and making the universe appear more alive.
Aww, are you lonely? Maybe you should send them isk. Then you will have friends.
Btw, I now crown you the boss of what Eve is all about, and how everyone else should play their internet spaceship game. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
150
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Posted - 2011.12.19 04:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
You believe?
You Contest?
You think?
You____?
Funny. |
hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
38
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Posted - 2011.12.19 12:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lot of hostility and cynicism here. I am starting to understand now what hulkageddon is about... the perpetrators probably tried to reach out but have given up.
You all react as though I am asking for all of empire space to become nullsec. That would be ridiculous. All I am saying is, there should be a balance of risk/reward. There should be a greater cost for what is essentially invincibility.
It feels like what I am proposing is the stick, because the only way this can be adusted is in that direction. After CCP made it possible to grind cash from an NPC corp until the top 1b+ ships can be afforded, there is no "better" or more expensive ships that can be accessed only in player corp activities/ lowsec/ nullsec/ hisec. So if we are to rebalance risk & reward, our only two options are, the "carrot" which is providing an entire new line of super-expensive and powerful "end-game" ships (more tech 3 maybe?) which is only accessible by taking on more risk - or the "stick" which makes existing ships harder to access by "the invincible".
One is the carrot as it provides new stuff, the other is the stick as it "removes" stuff.
My concern is for those in NPC corps who have ground to the absolute end game with nowhere to go. In my view (one shared by CCP, in fact, if you read the devblog announcing 10% NPC corp tax) this grind should be the beginning of one's Eve experience, not the end. There is such a wonderful game world to experience, and many of you are essentially playing X3: Beyond the Frontier. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
328
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Posted - 2011.12.19 14:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
hired goon wrote:Lot of hostility and cynicism here. I am starting to understand now what hulkageddon is about... the perpetrators probably tried to reach out but have given up.
You all react as though I am asking for all of empire space to become nullsec. That would be ridiculous. All I am saying is, there should be a balance of risk/reward. There should be a greater cost for what is essentially invincibility.
It feels like what I am proposing is the stick, because the only way this can be adusted is in that direction. After CCP made it possible to grind cash from an NPC corp until the top 1b+ ships can be afforded, there is no "better" or more expensive ships that can be accessed only in player corp activities/ lowsec/ nullsec/ hisec. So if we are to rebalance risk & reward, our only two options are, the "carrot" which is providing an entire new line of super-expensive and powerful "end-game" ships (more tech 3 maybe?) which is only accessible by taking on more risk - or the "stick" which makes existing ships harder to access by "the invincible".
One is the carrot as it provides new stuff, the other is the stick as it "removes" stuff.
My concern is for those in NPC corps who have ground to the absolute end game with nowhere to go. In my view (one shared by CCP, in fact, if you read the devblog announcing 10% NPC corp tax) this grind should be the beginning of one's Eve experience, not the end. There is such a wonderful game world to experience, and many of you are essentially playing X3: Beyond the Frontier.
Ganking a hulk in a catalyst has risk?
Btw, where do minerals and mods come from? Where do you get your ships from? And they're not "interacting" with you? Back in the days, you had to mine your own minerals and build your own ships. Good times. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
151
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Posted - 2011.12.19 15:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Ganking a hulk in a catalyst has risk? Btw, where do minerals and mods come from? Where do you get your ships from? And they're not "interacting" with you? Back in the days, you had to mine your own minerals and build your own ships. Good times.
You should be asking what the #### does hulkageddon have to do with being in an NPC Corporation? I suspect he's getting desperate now. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
416
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Posted - 2011.12.19 15:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
I laid something like this out about a week ago in another thread. I definitely approve of driving people out of hiding in NPC corps.
Neutrals are probably THE biggest contributors to the highsec isk fountain. If we could make it unprofitable to operate bots and long-term grinding alts in NPC corps, we at least would be moving them into corps where they could be war targets. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
153
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Posted - 2011.12.19 15:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I laid something like this out about a week ago in another thread. I definitely approve of driving people out of hiding in NPC corps.
Neutrals are probably THE biggest contributors to the highsec isk fountain. If we could make it unprofitable to operate bots and long-term grinding alts in NPC corps, we at least would be moving them into corps where they could be war targets.
Not everyone is a bot floppie....until you get past that bit...no one will win this fight. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
416
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Posted - 2011.12.19 15:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Not everyone is a bot floppie....until you get past that bit...no one will win this fight.
Read again. The issue isn't JUST bots, it's that anyone can operate an NPC corp alt for money-making and be virtually immune to attempts to reduce their cash flow. It lets them run missions in utter safety, then send that cash to their main character to be spent doing whatever it is you're trying to keep them from doing.
I briefly considered the idea of simply making it cost-prohibitive to transfer money from an NPC character to another, but that's easily circumvented. So the only real solution is reducing their ability to MAKE money while in NPC corps.
Also, here's where I suggested this, with a lot fewer words:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=523302#post523302 |
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
18
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Posted - 2011.12.19 16:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:
A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.
Flaws aside, this idea is still awful. |
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
264
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Posted - 2011.12.19 16:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.
Easily my favorite line in this entire thread, lol.
And he's right. If you force people out of NPC corps they still won't comply with your wishes, they will still do everything in their power to avoid you.
This entire thread is nothing more than a big huge "my idea of a sandbox is more important than your idea of a sandbox" whine. You can't force people to play the way you want them to and you can't force them to interact if they don't want to. Get over it.
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hired goon
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
38
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Posted - 2011.12.19 16:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:
A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.
Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.
You raise a good point about the one man corps. I don't think such an exploit would matter though, as if people leave the NPC corp to make their own single digit corp, they have still increased their risk, and so still deserve the reward of 0% tax they would receive.
I do not think NPC corps should end at 100% tax, that's silly. Perhaps 40% should be highest for example. And maybe a slower increase, 1% a week. Like I said in the OP, I am open to ideas for the actual numbers.
Anyone reading most of the replies in this thread would think the OP says "turn empire space into nullsec so I can kill whoever I want" when in fact it is a measured and reasonable approach to redressing hyper-inflation, risk vs reward, the devaluation of most items, and everyone having now "completed" eve as we wait for CCP to supply a new end game. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
416
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 16:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
GavinCapacitor wrote:Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:
A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.
Flaws aside, this idea is still awful.
So make it more difficult to close one corp and open another, and put a cap on NPC corp taxes so that it's REDUCED income, not completely removed. The idea is to make sitting in NPC corps less desirable.
Another idea might be to add hostility between NPC corps so that rival corps won't all you to dock in their stations or give you access to their agents. If NPC corp characters were only welcome in their corp's native empire space (meaning they can't use agents elsewhere) and had rival corps in that space that would deny them docking privileges, it might become enough of an annoyance that they leave the NPC corp. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
72
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Posted - 2011.12.19 18:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:GavinCapacitor wrote:Can't believe no one sees what will happen if this idea went live:
A bunch of single-digit-membership alt corps with 0% tax. War-dec'd ? Make another for less than the war dec cost. What is you plan to deal with this so you can force people out of the NPC corps? Also, as stated, eventually this 'idea' would get people to 100% tax rate in NPC corps. Thats legit, yo.
Flaws aside, this idea is still awful. So make it more difficult to close one corp and open another, and put a cap on NPC corp taxes so that it's REDUCED income, not completely removed. The idea is to make sitting in NPC corps less desirable. Another idea might be to add hostility between NPC corps so that rival corps won't all you to dock in their stations or give you access to their agents. If NPC corp characters were only welcome in their corp's native empire space (meaning they can't use agents elsewhere) and had rival corps in that space that would deny them docking privileges, it might become enough of an annoyance that they leave the NPC corp.
Surely if someone wants to subscribe to EVE and pays their money each month as you do, they can stay in a NPC corp if they want to. What gives you or anyone else in this thread the right to dictate how someone else plays the game?
If someone wishes to remain non-affiliated to any corp or alliance in EVE then that is their right to do so.
Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.
They don't run missions for the most part so an increasing tax rate would not affect them at all.
I will not support any suggestion that impinges on someone else's ability to play the game their way. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 19:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Have to agree with Mr. Mennance...Floppie you bring up a valid point but the fact remains...we have no right to force anyone to play this game any differently than we would expect you fine gents to do so.
And the excuse of stopping bots isn't going to fly either...because obviously not everyone is a bot.....yes everyone here has high sec alts....so its shooting yourself in the foot.
There are ways to take them out...even if they aren't convient as a war dec. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
156
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Smiling Menace wrote: Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.
You don't think CONCORD protection has anything to do with why NPC corps are used for nullsec logistics? |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
73
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Smiling Menace wrote: Remember, not everyone in a NPC corp is there to avoid wardecs. There are plenty of reasons as to why a character is there, most notable being null sec alts for logistic purposes.
You don't think avoiding wardecs has anything to do with why NPC corps are used for nullsec logistics?
Not really. It would be just the same if they were in their own corp. Most of the hi sec griefers that dec large null sec alliances wouldn't waste their time trying to work out which one man corp belonged to a null sec toon.
I know my logistics toon is in a NPC corp just because I couldn't be bothered with setting up a corp when it wasn't and still isn't necessary.
This is not my main either and is in a 1 man corp but I do run missions on this toon and various other things but that is my choice. No-one forced this on me and that's exactly what's being proposed by this suggestion.
Imposition on a select part of the EVE community to conform to someone else's idea of what they should be doing.
Don't agree with that and never will. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
262
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
mxzf wrote:You can't force people to play the way YOU want them too. People will either play the way they want to or they'll quit and play another game.
What he said. Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Thredd Necro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
82
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Posted - 2011.12.19 19:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
mxzf wrote:hired goon wrote:I understand how you may all view this as being simply my opinion There's a reason for that, it is just your opinion. The point remains that forcing people to do stuff is a bad idea. /thread
This.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2011.12.19 20:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
hired goon wrote:A simple idea to get people more involved in Eve. Let's tax the crap out of them and STARVE them out! THAT will make them more enthusiastic about playing EVE!
Silly and cliche'd idea.
Aside from that in case you missed the recent newsflash:
EVE's subscription numbers DID drop
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