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Ashilta
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.16 07:35:02 -
[1] - Quote
Morning,
Yesterday, one of my toons lost a cloaked ship and I can't figure out how. They were cloaked in a deep safe, which had been created some time ago by warping between two celestials, dropping a bookmark, warping somewhere else, warping to the original bookmark, and then warping between the bookmarks to create a third and final bookmark. This way, I greatly reduce the risk of being found 'accidentally'.
So yesterday, I leave my ship cloaked in the deep safe and I go to have dinner. I come back and realise that my ship is lost and I am in station. Is there some sort of arbitrary time-out that means that my cloaking device will deactivate itself? I find it improbable that I was found, but is it possible that the guy that caught me was randomly warping around the system and happened to decloak me, thus allowing the opportunity for me to be probed? Or am I misunderstanding some other odd behaviour?
Cheers! |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1596
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Posted - 2016.05.16 07:49:26 -
[2] - Quote
Ashilta wrote:Morning,
Yesterday, one of my toons lost a cloaked ship and I can't figure out how. They were cloaked in a deep safe, which had been created some time ago by warping between two celestials, dropping a bookmark, warping somewhere else, warping to the original bookmark, and then warping between the bookmarks to create a third and final bookmark. This way, I greatly reduce the risk of being found 'accidentally'.
So yesterday, I leave my ship cloaked in the deep safe and I go to have dinner. I come back and realise that my ship is lost and I am in station. Is there some sort of arbitrary time-out that means that my cloaking device will deactivate itself? I find it improbable that I was found, but is it possible that the guy that caught me was randomly warping around the system and happened to decloak me, thus allowing the opportunity for me to be probed? Or am I misunderstanding some other odd behaviour?
Cheers!
Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing. Because of this you should at the end burn away in some random direction say about 500km and then set the final BM or as a matter of course just burn in a random direction after you have landed when you go AFK so that you reduce your risk of being caught as I described. I assume that you did not do either of the last two steps.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
157
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:00:20 -
[3] - Quote
One of my corp mates reported yesterday that a bug was causing them to de-cloak randomly on their scouting character. Apparently it happened to them twice during the day. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1598
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:02:27 -
[4] - Quote
Krevnos wrote:One of my corp mates reported yesterday that a bug was causing them to de-cloak randomly on their scouting character. Apparently it happened to them twice during the day.
I hope that happens when they stay cloaked in the same system 24/7 as a matter of course
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44687
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:15:33 -
[5] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing... By any chance did you make an attempt to calculate the likelihood of 2 people creating safe spots within 2km of each other before suggesting it?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Ashilta
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:18:45 -
[6] - Quote
Krevnos wrote:One of my corp mates reported yesterday that a bug was causing them to de-cloak randomly on their scouting character while sitting in their safe spot. Apparently it happened to them twice during the day.
Interesting, OK. I'll petition it, but I wager their logs show nothing... |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2499
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:19:24 -
[7] - Quote
Ashilta wrote:Morning,
Yesterday, one of my toons lost a cloaked ship and I can't figure out how. They were cloaked in a deep safe, which had been created some time ago by warping between two celestials, dropping a bookmark, warping somewhere else, warping to the original bookmark, and then warping between the bookmarks to create a third and final bookmark. This way, I greatly reduce the risk of being found 'accidentally'.
So yesterday, I leave my ship cloaked in the deep safe and I go to have dinner. I come back and realise that my ship is lost and I am in station. Is there some sort of arbitrary time-out that means that my cloaking device will deactivate itself? I find it improbable that I was found, but is it possible that the guy that caught me was randomly warping around the system and happened to decloak me, thus allowing the opportunity for me to be probed? Or am I misunderstanding some other odd behaviour?
Cheers! You are not misunderstanding anything. You should have been completely safe. Either you left the computer and were not cloaked as you believe, or there is some sort of bug at work here.
File a petition and CCP should (eventually) get to the bottom of it by looking at the logs.
Why Do They Gank?
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1598
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:20:55 -
[8] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing... By any chance did you make an attempt to calculate the likelihood of 2 people creating safe spots within 2km of each other before suggesting it?
We have done it to someone...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Wanda Fayne
211
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:21:45 -
[9] - Quote
There are things that will cause decloaking, without an object being within the cloaking restriction. Like an anomally or site spawning or despawning, for example. With the new larger grid sizes, it is quite possible to be within range of the affect of one of these. And you won't even see it on Dscan (it will be in your Probing window, or brackets if you have them enabled for that).
If it happens again, make note of the time and location and file a bug report. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44688
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:29:33 -
[10] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing... By any chance did you make an attempt to calculate the likelihood of 2 people creating safe spots within 2km of each other before suggesting it? We have done it to someone... By warping between 2 safes to create a third out of any direct warp path?
I don't believe you.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Wanda Fayne
211
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:30:11 -
[11] - Quote
Also, afk in space should have risk, cloaked or not. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2499
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:38:07 -
[12] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:There are things that will cause decloaking, without an object being within the cloaking restriction. Like an anomally or site spawning or despawning, for example. With the new larger grid sizes, it is quite possible to be within range of the affect of one of these. And you won't even see it on Dscan (it will be in your Probing window, or brackets if you have them enabled for that) What? No.
There is effectively no chance of being decloaked by a spawning site. If we assume a sphere of 10AU in diameter, there is a 1.8 x10E27 km3 volume of space in which a site can spawn. If a site is 10 000km in diameter on average (5.2x10E11 km3), that means by random chance there is something like a 0.00000000000000001% of having a randomly spawning site land on top of you.
Sure, site spawning isn't completely random, but even given a boost of a few orders of magnitude to account for that there is still essentially no chance of a site (and less of a ship) decloaking you if you are in a true deep safe spot.
Why Do They Gank?
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1598
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 08:38:56 -
[13] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing... By any chance did you make an attempt to calculate the likelihood of 2 people creating safe spots within 2km of each other before suggesting it? We have done it to someone... By warping between 2 safes to create a third out of any direct warp path? I don't believe you.
That's fine, I don't care whether you believe me or not, but bear in mind system layout does tend to help in the probability if that helps in understanding it. It is a real shot in the dark and very few people bother.
This case does sound like a bug rather than someone actually hunting like that.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Yarosara Ruil
289
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Posted - 2016.05.16 08:47:32 -
[14] - Quote
Wanda Fayne wrote:Also, afk in space should have risk, cloaked or not.
Just no. Cloaking is the ultimate line of defense. Second to being inside a Force Field or tethered to a Citadel, having your ship cloaked will give you the ultimate protection until your cloak drops. Getting the cloak to drop though, now that's the tricky part and there are ways of getting it down using shrewd tactics.
Now, I'm sure the person that killed Ashiita's alt is a reasonable fellow and he could give him the rundown on how exactly he killed his ship, and the circumstances behind that kill. Because there's nothing worse than a compromised safespot, specially if you have the lousy habit of leaving mobile depots in them. |
Terquil
Random Thinking Union Random Thinking
1
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Posted - 2016.05.16 09:07:08 -
[15] - Quote
You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
10681
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Posted - 2016.05.16 09:12:49 -
[16] - Quote
Bug or a feature.
Fault rate for cloaking devices?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1598
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Posted - 2016.05.16 09:22:01 -
[17] - Quote
Terquil wrote:You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug.
The key word here is celestial, creating a safe between two celestial's then from that safe creating another safe from that BM to another celestial. Stop being stupid and read what I said, if the calibre of Eve players has gone down to such a level that they don't understand what I said then that is your failure to read it and failure to understand it. Sometimes the system layout makes it very easy to work out what a lazy player would use.
He said warping somewhere else, if that had been another celestial then he could have been found by a real hunter with attitude, but if it was another BM then no he would not have been decloaked by someone doing what I described. Now use your brain and think it through, it is not rocket science, jeeez....
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44688
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 09:24:29 -
[18] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Terquil wrote:You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug. The key word here is celestial, creating a safe between two celestial's then from that safe creating another safe from that BM to another celestial. Stop being stupid and read what I said, if the calibre of Eve players has gone down to such a level that they don't understand what I said then that is your failure to read it and failure to understand it. Sometimes the system layout makes it very easy to work out what a lazy player would use. He said warping somewhere else, if that had been another celestial then he could have been found by a real hunter with attitude, but if it was another BM then no he would not have been decloaked by someone doing what I described. Now use your brain and think it through, it is not rocket science, jeeez.... I think you may have misunderstood the OP here Drac.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Hawke Frost
99
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Posted - 2016.05.16 09:59:57 -
[19] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I think you may have misunderstood the OP here Drac.
Indeed, per OP this is not some basic "between 2 celestials" kind of SS, it's 3 layers deep. Even the basic one I don't believe unless he was at an obvious distance like 100, 150km or so, generally I'd say that if this happens and you're in an alliance fleet that you have a spy you should be looking out for.
In this specific case, no idea. I've not noticed any irregularities with cloaks lately.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1599
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Posted - 2016.05.16 10:36:14 -
[20] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Terquil wrote:You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug. The key word here is celestial, creating a safe between two celestial's then from that safe creating another safe from that BM to another celestial. Stop being stupid and read what I said, if the calibre of Eve players has gone down to such a level that they don't understand what I said then that is your failure to read it and failure to understand it. Sometimes the system layout makes it very easy to work out what a lazy player would use. He said warping somewhere else, if that had been another celestial then he could have been found by a real hunter with attitude, but if it was another BM then no he would not have been decloaked by someone doing what I described. Now use your brain and think it through, it is not rocket science, jeeez.... I think you may have misunderstood the OP here Drac. Quote:...so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place, so it sounds like someone used the same ships and created their safe doing the same thing. This is not correct.
That last quote is wrong it is the one second ticks that are important.
And as for the OP what did he mean by deep safe, to me a deep safe is one of the old style interceptor log off ones, and not one that is away from celestial's which people refer to now as deep safe. That he said between two celestial's at the start made me think it was not the old deep safe. I was not trying to be a smart ass, just wanting to make sure that if it was what I described that he did not caught again. The person I caught was two deep not three.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Dragon of Stone
Dragons of the Endless Void Lost Dragon Spires
1
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Posted - 2016.05.16 10:40:54 -
[21] - Quote
Simple solution is to contact who killed you and ask. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44691
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Posted - 2016.05.16 11:15:17 -
[22] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:That last quote is wrong it is the one second ticks that are important. Oh ok.
In that case:
Dracvlad wrote:Eve works in one second ticks, so if you have a ship with the same warp speed they will create safe spots in exactly the same place,... This is not correct.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Terquil
Random Thinking Union Random Thinking
2
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Posted - 2016.05.16 11:33:27 -
[23] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Terquil wrote:You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug. The key word here is celestial, creating a safe between two celestial's then from that safe creating another safe from that BM to another celestial. Stop being stupid and read what I said, if the calibre of Eve players has gone down to such a level that they don't understand what I said then that is your failure to read it and failure to understand it. Sometimes the system layout makes it very easy to work out what a lazy player would use. He said warping somewhere else, if that had been another celestial then he could have been found by a real hunter with attitude, but if it was another BM then no he would not have been decloaked by someone doing what I described. Now use your brain and think it through, it is not rocket science, jeeez....
Yes pls, read first and understand before bit**slapping around. And re-read what you answered to others first because you never said anything of a celestial. Don't be a smartass when you clearly don't read right. It's not rocket science you know? |
Cranial Rectidus
ElevenBravo
0
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Posted - 2016.05.16 11:33:36 -
[24] - Quote
Krevnos wrote:One of my corp mates reported yesterday that a bug was causing them to de-cloak randomly on their scouting character while sitting in their safe spot. Apparently it happened to them twice during the day.
Actually this has happened a lot for me for the last couple of weeks while scouting. I can be in scan and probing and suddenly see my D-scan pop up some combat probes within 2 AU and I see that for some reason I am de-cloaked.
This has happened in many forms and maybe once or twice I got busy and forgot to cloak... The rest of the times I simply de-cloak and freak out wondering if someone just bumped me in the middle of nowhere!! |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1599
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 11:57:22 -
[25] - Quote
Terquil wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Terquil wrote:You just can't decloak someone who made a third safe between two other safes. Nope. Not gonna happen. If someone says so I want proof or it didn't happen and they just talk BS.
File a petition. Either you weren't cloaked or some bug. The key word here is celestial, creating a safe between two celestial's then from that safe creating another safe from that BM to another celestial. Stop being stupid and read what I said, if the calibre of Eve players has gone down to such a level that they don't understand what I said then that is your failure to read it and failure to understand it. Sometimes the system layout makes it very easy to work out what a lazy player would use. He said warping somewhere else, if that had been another celestial then he could have been found by a real hunter with attitude, but if it was another BM then no he would not have been decloaked by someone doing what I described. Now use your brain and think it through, it is not rocket science, jeeez.... Yes pls, read first and understand before bit**slapping around. And re-read what you answered to others first because you or the OP never said anything of a celestial. Don't be a smartass when you clearly don't read right. It's not rocket science you know?
You are a bit of a dipstick, he said between two celestial's and then said from another spot and that could have been got between another two celetial's and his comment about deep safe was likely not what I would call a deep safe. I of course missed the fact that it was three in rather than two which I hold my hand up to, but even then in certain systems a three deep with limited options from celestials is in theory vulnerable, which is why paranoid people like me burn off in random directions and use expired anomalies. Anyway I am not going to reply again, because I am letting out some methods that I use to hunt lazy dipsticks...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Ashilta
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.05.16 12:00:23 -
[26] - Quote
Ashilta wrote:Morning,
They were cloaked in a deep safe, which had been created some time ago by warping between two celestials, dropping a bookmark, warping somewhere else, warping to the original bookmark, and then warping between the bookmarks to create a third and final bookmark. This way, I greatly reduce the risk of being found 'accidentally'.
What I actually said is quoted.
Celestial A to Celestial B Drop bookmark in warp, not at the mid point (too obvious) Warp to Celestial C Warp from C to Bookmark Drop bookmark mid-warp, again not at the mid point Warp to bookmark 1 Warp to bookmark 2 Drop bookmark mid-warp, again not at the mid point Bookmark 3 is the 'deep safe' |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44692
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 12:01:34 -
[27] - Quote
Ashilta wrote:Ashilta wrote:Morning,
They were cloaked in a deep safe, which had been created some time ago by warping between two celestials, dropping a bookmark, warping somewhere else, warping to the original bookmark, and then warping between the bookmarks to create a third and final bookmark. This way, I greatly reduce the risk of being found 'accidentally'. What I actually said is quoted. Celestial A to Celestial B Drop bookmark in warp, not at the mid point (too obvious) Warp to Celestial C Warp from C to Bookmark Drop bookmark mid-warp, again not at the mid point Warp to bookmark 1 Warp to bookmark 2 Drop bookmark mid-warp, again not at the mid point Bookmark 3 is the 'deep safe' Yes. What you said was quite clear.
Deep safe would normally also require that it is >14.7 AU from any celestial, so you are off d-scan everywhere, or ideally saved at an incursion site, since it's not possible to go way off grid anymore, except when there is an incursion in system, but what you said was understandable.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Ashilta
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 12:05:44 -
[28] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Yes. What you said was quite clear.
I thought so too. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4421
|
Posted - 2016.05.16 12:07:25 -
[29] - Quote
Dragon of Stone wrote:Simple solution is to contact who killed you and ask. This.
It either was:
1) A bug 2) Your mistake (you didn't actually cloak) 3) Someone managed to probe you before you cloaked, or at any other time you were not cloaked in that safespot
If you ask them they should clear up 3).
If that's not the case, petition it and CCP should be able to determine whether it's 1) or 2).
Quick advice: before you go AFK while cloaked, double-click in a random direction and get your ship moving. That helps avoid 3). EDIT: even better, if you're not being probed first burn at least 20km or so in a random direction, then cloak and continue moving for good measure.
o/
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Terquil
Random Thinking Union Random Thinking
2
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Posted - 2016.05.16 12:08:28 -
[30] - Quote
Yeah we understood perfectly fine. At least some did....
Oh well dark, those methods weren't invented by you and you're not the only one who hunts that way. In whs you have even finer methods of creating safes, but ofc you know that ;) |
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