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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2016.06.03 15:59:01 -
[1] - Quote
When I started in EVE (early 2009), even hard-core PvE corps used to try to fight back when they got wardecced - sometimes succeeding in getting 1-2 kills they could be proud of even against the big scary merc groups. Sure occasionally we had to hide in station after determining we just couldn't beat them - but more often than not we just hopped in cheap suicide ships and had some fun losing even then.
Over the years of course I've seen EVE changing - while I was off in low/null sec for 3-4 years the atmosphere in high sec stagnated. People were less willing to fight back, and more prone to hide in station for a week or even drop corp to avoid wars....but overall at least 50% of the high sec population still fought back and wanted to win their wars if they could.
Even as the war-declaration-spamming corps (the ones in the trade hubs/pipes) grew out of control and started declaring literally war on everyone in site, while flying heavily tanked ships with entirely too much rr - people STILL fought back at least sometimes....
And then....roughly 6-9 months ago....suddenly the last of the spirit in the denizens of high sec died. All of their spines finally snapped. And for the past 6-9 months I've been involved in ~50 wars, sometimes with scouts in the enemy corps, sometimes not - all declared with only 1-3 people in my own corp... - but NOBODY even WANTS to fight back...
I've even made some noob alt characters with no combat ability to declare test wars, with the same result. And I've observed other wars in EVE, often declared by utterly incompetent corps that I could literally solo, vs 50-man missioning/industrial groups that should wipe the floor with them...and STILL it is the same. Every single corp I can see does 1 of 3 things now when they get wardecced:
1) Drop Corp/Quit EVE for a week. Sometimes both. 2) Immediately ask how much it costs to surrender?!? 3) Hire one of the hub camping corps to literally do nothing other than add another war they won't do anything with - then do #1
So...What happened?!? What was the straw that finally broke the back of all Carebears everywhere?
New players have more isk thrown at them than they know what to do with - and half of them buy plex/sp as well (I've seen the faction fit battleships running L1-3 missions to prove it) - but they can't afford a few cheap suicide ships anymore? They've decided that whining/crying is more fun than going out and trying to get a kill?
Corps with all the resources at their disposal to, if not WIN their wars, at least make a good showing of themselves and win the isk war - instead choose to just roll over and DIE because "PvP is scary" or "its a TRAP".....
Who killed casual PvP - and is there any way to bring it back? |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2016.06.03 16:06:37 -
[2] - Quote
*note: I know there are still idiots who fly around acting like they don't have a war - or who fly into trade hub camps/etc. I'm not talking about them, that is not a conscious choice to attempt pvp. There will always be idiots, but that isn't what I'm here to discuss. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
118
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Posted - 2016.06.03 16:59:45 -
[3] - Quote
Random atempts at retaliation still happen, though very rarely, and usually they are not really Hisec 'carebears', but WH and more rarely Low and Nul corps that try their luck.
I've been involved Hisec pvp since 2010, I agree that it has become much staler.
Blanket wardeccing likely have a role it to play on that phenomenon - Players have been under nearly constant pressure combined with (likely) defeat after defeat trying to fight back likely lead to this sorry state of affair. And in my opinion, the removal of Watchlist only exacerbate that situation.
Also, suspect baiting have become so rampant that those 'carebear' that dare to engage have likely learned not to.
The removal of can mining is another thing that removed casual PVP from Hisec.
Can stealing/baiting mechanics were an extraordinary mechanic for both the PVPer AND the Miner: Why? Because the miner had to live on edge and make a decision: To can mine or not to can mine, efficiency vs security. now there is only security. Now with Ore Holds (except for ganking) there is only security and it certainly had an effect over time on the player's mindset.
My 2 cents.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Castor II
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2016.06.03 17:18:27 -
[4] - Quote
This is sorta true in lowsec FW too.
I run into plexers who warp off and hide from my T1 frigate all the time.
I guess some people find orbiting for 20 minutes more fun than actually playing the game.
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Tengu Grib
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
1521
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Posted - 2016.06.03 17:39:29 -
[5] - Quote
I think a big part of it is that the various merc groups have refined their tactics over the years.
It's hard to get a bunch of miners into decent ships and take on 3 Proteus', two Bahlgorns, three macharials and 4 - 6 Guardians.
Plus the mercs are making better and more consistent use of neutral scouts so when a fight is coming their way that they think they might not win, they relocate before the enemy can engage.
Obviously there's other changes as well, such as carebears are more prone to just avoid fights rather than try to engage in them at the risk of loss, but I think the changes in the merc community warrant mention.
Rabble Rabble Rabble
Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
1
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Posted - 2016.06.03 17:51:59 -
[6] - Quote
I know CCP has an in house economist working on things for EVE but I feel they also need an in house psychologist working with him. The fact is, the game changes so drastically on a fairly regular basis and these changes mostly appear to push people into low/null sec in order to increase the loss of ships and thus increase the need for industry and down the chain.
While people may have more ISK than in the past, there are also a lot of bigger and more expensive ships/fits used thus cause for more losses in less time and while a cheap frigate thrown at the BS's in a war sounds like fun, most know its just a waste and giving the Wardeccers something to add to their killboard at their loss. This brings in another issue in that Killboards are such a thing now (maybe they always were?) but when a corp is wardecced, their hope is to give no kills to the aggresing corp so as to show "no profit here, move on" and not have the dec extended, not only that, but showing corp losses in a dec will just attract other merc corps to follow suit for their share and since there is no limit on the number of dec a corp can initiate, the afore mentioned concerns are valid and in some ways game breaking for those trying to work their way up in the galaxy.
In my opinion its merely a lot of effort to push people out of high sec into the vast emptiness and danger of low/null sec but in all of the wrong ways.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2016.06.03 18:17:59 -
[7] - Quote
Malakye Appleton wrote:I know CCP has an in house economist working on things for EVE but I feel they also need an in house psychologist working with him. The fact is, the game changes so drastically on a fairly regular basis and these changes mostly appear to push people into low/null sec in order to increase the loss of ships and thus increase the need for industry and down the chain.
While people may have more ISK than in the past, there are also a lot of bigger and more expensive ships/fits used thus cause for more losses in less time and while a cheap frigate thrown at the BS's in a war sounds like fun, most know its just a waste and giving the Wardeccers something to add to their killboard at their loss. This brings in another issue in that Killboards are such a thing now (maybe they always were?) but when a corp is wardecced, their hope is to give no kills to the aggresing corp so as to show "no profit here, move on" and not have the dec extended, not only that, but showing corp losses in a dec will just attract other merc corps to follow suit for their share and since there is no limit on the number of dec a corp can initiate, the afore mentioned concerns are valid and in some ways game breaking for those trying to work their way up in the galaxy.
In my opinion its merely a lot of effort to push people out of high sec into the vast emptiness and danger of low/null sec but in all of the wrong ways.
I killed my first HAC + battleship about 3 weeks into EVE in a suicide frigate fleet....T1 frigates are in fact exceptionally good at ripping larger ships to pieces. Much as I loathe to credit goonswarm with good ideas - I believe it was their old recruitment ad that pointed out you can take down anything, even a titan, with just a bunch of clueless noobs in t1 frigates - as long as they WORK TOGETHER.
These comments do point to a major mindset change though - which is that people seem to think the only possible war-time scenario is that they will be facing one of the big merc corps in the game w/ superior ships + numbers + scouting + support.
Not every war is started by the major groups - and many of the smaller warring corps really do only have a couple of people who could easily be outnumbered - but for some reason nobody ever seems to believe this is possible. People literally have *exactly* the same reaction (as observed w/ spy alts) to being war-decced by a major merc corp....or being war-decced by my day-old noob alt. Even before it became hypothetically possible (if I were an EVE trillionaire) to max out the day old noob...
With killboards as prevalent as they are, it is easier than ever to find out EXACTLY what you are up against - they post it for the entire universe to see...but nobody ever even looks. They all just give up without a whimper.
Even if it was only vs the big corps, and even if you were crazy enough to go fight their main camp in the trade hub - I remember the days when wardecced CEOs used to actually talk and coordinate with each other to combine forces and fight. Can you even imagine if 50% of the thousands and thousands of players wardecced by any of the big groups actually combined forces and sent a 500 person t1 frigate gang to wipe them out of the trade hub? Even with t1 fittings and lousy skills that is a minimum of 25,000 dps - also known as enough to nuke a t3 cruiser in 5 seconds or less regardless of how much rr it has.
I know it will never happen. As I say, I have realized that this form of warfare is dead.... I just don't see WHY. All the carebears just gave up...but they didn't need to. It annoys me. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2016.06.03 18:23:44 -
[8] - Quote
One additional observation as well - Wardec corps didn't used to have nearly as many wars going at once as they have now.
It has actually reached the point where it is in a feedback loop - nobody fights, so the wardec groups need to start more wars to search for at least a few targets to kill, so people get more scared and hide harder, so the wardec groups have to start EVEN MORE wars at once, etc etc etc.
Ironically even if they lost ships every time the total number of wars in EVE would likely drop drastically again if people started fighting back and providing some fun/content from time to time. As long as everyone did it and not just 1 poor sucker corp that would be mauled to death for standing out. |
Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
1
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Posted - 2016.06.03 18:27:20 -
[9] - Quote
That was a pretty good post and you're right.
If even a few of the wardecced corps banded together to go after some of the bigger merc corps, I think it would make history in some ways and be very exciting. The problem I think most of the corps have however is lack of numbers and within those numbers lack of skills to fly much of anything, or at the very least the fear to try.
When I was a kid, I was very tall. I was 6'6 at 15. I grew up in rough areas and went to ****** public school full of bullies. I was big so people never messed with me solo, it was always groups of cousins, brothers and friends. I was always too afraid to fight back even when I knew I could slaughter some of them. I didnt want to hurt anyone, I just wanted to be left alone. By the time I got into the 8th grade and moved to a new school, I decided I wasn't going to let anyone mess with me. I snapped on a big ass kid who started with me at lunch, got a rep and became the polar opposite of what I was used to. I wasn't a bully at all, but I would defend against bullies. I ended up becoming a 7ft foot cage fighter, go figure.
The point to this is, somoetimes it just takes a "Fk it!" attitude and go for broke. At least in EVE, even if you lose, you just lost some ISK and or mining time. If you win, well, then you found the Glory in EVE and likely a new way of life for yourself.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12242
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Posted - 2016.06.03 19:41:48 -
[10] - Quote
Dirty forums alts killed it - because all of the PVP moved to the forums
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
366
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Posted - 2016.06.03 19:52:46 -
[11] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Dirty forums alts killed it - because all of the PVP moved to the forums
A lot of pvp happens on reddit. In game there are only space ships shooting at each other.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2016.06.03 21:14:19 -
[12] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Dirty forums alts killed it - because all of the PVP moved to the forums
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David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
142
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Posted - 2016.06.03 23:22:32 -
[13] - Quote
Well, those big, scary, mass-dec alliances won't ever run out of targets; they can just start shooting each other! Oh wait...
Seriously though, why doesn't ^ happen more often? Don't they ever get fed up of camping un-docks/choke points, blowing away rookie ships with insta-loki's e.t.c, and actually have a real go at each other? Or is the thought of having a red mark on their kill board too much for them? This was based on the last time I checked Archtype's history (one example) and in a period of 3, maybe 4 months, the only "big" dec group on that list I saw was PIRAT... and rather predictably, after 1 week nothing had happened.
I know those groups like to hang around in certain areas, but still... that's a little bit disappointing, to put it mildly. |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
120
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Posted - 2016.06.04 00:08:14 -
[14] - Quote
David Therman wrote:Well, those big, scary, mass-dec alliances won't ever run out of targets; they can just start shooting each other! Oh wait...
Seriously though, why doesn't ^ happen more often? Don't they ever get fed up of camping un-docks/choke points, blowing away rookie ships with insta-loki's e.t.c, and actually have a real go at each other? Or is the thought of having a red mark on their kill board too much for them? This was based on the last time I checked Archtype's history (one example) and in a period of 3, maybe 4 months, the only "big" dec group on that list I saw was PIRAT... and rather predictably, after 1 week nothing had happened.
I know those groups like to hang around in certain areas, but still... that's a little bit disappointing, to put it mildly. It happens from time to time. CD and Marmite have been at war for some time for example.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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jack1974
Reikoku Pandemic Legion
107
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Posted - 2016.06.04 01:57:39 -
[15] - Quote
In my opinion there is nothing worth fighting over. BPO's, AT ships, and industrial groups are safe and sound docked in an indestructible station. It's easy to bypass wartargets. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2096
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Posted - 2016.06.04 07:44:08 -
[16] - Quote
Occasionally we get a dec here and there. It ain't dead yet!
https://zkillboard.com/related/30003504/201605040100/
https://zkillboard.com/related/30010141/201601032200/
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Morgan Agrivar
Peace.Keepers
339
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Posted - 2016.06.04 09:01:45 -
[17] - Quote
The removal of the watch list killed it for me, taking away the one job I loved doing: solo highsec wardecs. With the blanket wardecs to try to get as many wartargets as possible to keep their bored pilots happy, it definately put pressure on corps to just hide since they can get wardecced by more than one merc corp.
Remember when merc corps used to just wardec corps they were hired to wardec? Yeah, me too....
/sarcasmon
Thanks CCP.
/sarcasmoff
This would cure me of the fear...
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StonerPhReaK
AFK Inc.
417
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Posted - 2016.06.04 10:37:58 -
[18] - Quote
Who killed HS pvp? We did. Just like with Kennedy.
Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2016.06.04 14:26:08 -
[19] - Quote
Well I was serious about the 2nd part of my question as well - do any of you think there is a realistic way we could bring it back, or do we just accept that it is dieing/dead and move on to other things? |
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2217
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Posted - 2016.06.04 14:49:54 -
[20] - Quote
Maybe you're just deccing the wrong people. We've jad a few who've made an effort to fight back recently.
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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ChinDownEyesUp Arkaral
United Wolfs Nations
8
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Posted - 2016.06.04 15:35:11 -
[21] - Quote
a factor that has greatly impacted this is the removal of the old watchlist system.
when before a small group could run locate agents and find people where they lived, those people tended to fight back.
even before this hub camping was ALWAYS the most efficient way to do wardecs, but now the only other option has been made significantly more difficult. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2016.06.04 15:53:02 -
[22] - Quote
ChinDownEyesUp Arkaral wrote:a factor that has greatly impacted this is the removal of the old watchlist system.
when before a small group could run locate agents and find people where they lived, those people tended to fight back.
even before this hub camping was ALWAYS the most efficient way to do wardecs, but now the only other option has been made significantly more difficult. Eh, hub camping is the most efficient way to kill people in war
But it is one of the worst possible ways to actually get fights in a war - nobody flies straight into a hub camp looking to fight it unless they are another merc corp hired to do so or something
In fact blocking access to the trade hub prevents your targets from buying new ships after you blow them up - thus preventing future fights.
I miss the days when I could actually get a *fight* in a war. And finding peoples' homes is easy - the problem is they move when the war starts. *if* they move together, then they are still easy to find even without a watch list. Honestly all the removal of the watch list makes it hard to do is find the ones who scatter - but the ones who scatter have given up and don't want to fight back - so again, they are not the people I'm talking about here.
It is telling that people have so much trouble even understanding what I mean here I think. I'm not insulting any of you - your play style is 100% valid, you are accomplishing what you want - it is just different than the casual PvP I'm talking about. Just kind of disheartening that even in the PvP oriented side of the community people don't even consider it a possibility, and the conversation keeps getting derailed to talk about other types of war with the goal of killing the enemy rather than getting a fight.
Disclaimer: Yes I know some of you do get it - I have noticed, and I do appreciate your input here. Just a lot of people here who don't see what I'm talking about as well. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
290
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Posted - 2016.06.04 16:44:19 -
[23] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:ChinDownEyesUp Arkaral wrote:a factor that has greatly impacted this is the removal of the old watchlist system.
when before a small group could run locate agents and find people where they lived, those people tended to fight back.
even before this hub camping was ALWAYS the most efficient way to do wardecs, but now the only other option has been made significantly more difficult. Eh, hub camping is the most efficient way to kill people in war But it is one of the worst possible ways to actually get fights in a war - nobody flies straight into a hub camp looking to fight it unless they are another merc corp hired to do so or something In fact blocking access to the trade hub prevents your targets from buying new ships after you blow them up - thus preventing future fights. So.. your saying both that Hubcamping is the most effective way AND blocking access to trade hub prevents future fights. How can hub camping be the most effective way then?
Hub camping is the easiest way. (and now basicly the only way) As running or avoiding wars is the easiest way. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2016.06.04 17:08:56 -
[24] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. your saying both that Hubcamping is the most effective way AND blocking access to trade hub prevents future fights. How can hub camping be the most effective way then? Hub camping is the easiest way. (and now basicly the only way) As running or avoiding wars is the easiest way. Once again, you are missing my point.
Hub Camping is the most effective way to farm kills. That is your goal. You don't give a **** about fights - you just want to kill them and cause damage to them. You will *never* get a fight from any carebear corporation camping a hub. EVER. You only farm the idiots who still don't want to fight, but are too stupid to avoid your hub camp.
*I* am talking about the days when carebear corps used to intentionally fit up PvP ships and intentionally come out to fight back against their attackers. About actual *fights* - where BOTH SIDES come to fight, and BOTH SIDES fire guns with the intention of killing their enemy.
You don't do this form of PvP. You never have as far as I know. You are a merc corp - not a casual PvPer. So this discussion is *not about you*. At all. |
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
2217
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Posted - 2016.06.04 17:32:27 -
[25] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. your saying both that Hubcamping is the most effective way AND blocking access to trade hub prevents future fights. How can hub camping be the most effective way then? Hub camping is the easiest way. (and now basicly the only way) As running or avoiding wars is the easiest way. Once again, you are missing my point. Hub Camping is the most effective way to farm kills. That is your goal. You don't give a **** about fights - you just want to kill them and cause damage to them. You will *never* get a fight from any carebear corporation camping a hub. EVER. You only farm the idiots who still don't want to fight, but are too stupid to avoid your hub camp. *I* am talking about the days when carebear corps used to intentionally fit up PvP ships and intentionally come out to fight back against their attackers. About actual *fights* - where BOTH SIDES come to fight, and BOTH SIDES fire guns with the intention of killing their enemy. You don't do this form of PvP. You never have as far as I know. You are a merc corp - not a casual PvPer. So this discussion is *not about you*. At all.
*ok mate*
Father to a murdered son. Husband to a murdered wife. Truth be told, I've been pretty unlucky.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
290
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Posted - 2016.06.04 17:34:12 -
[26] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. your saying both that Hubcamping is the most effective way AND blocking access to trade hub prevents future fights. How can hub camping be the most effective way then? Hub camping is the easiest way. (and now basicly the only way) As running or avoiding wars is the easiest way. Once again, you are missing my point. Hub Camping is the most effective way to farm kills. That is your goal. You don't give a **** about fights - you just want to kill them and cause damage to them. You will *never* get a fight from any carebear corporation camping a hub. EVER. You only farm the idiots who still don't want to fight, but are too stupid to avoid your hub camp. *I* am talking about the days when carebear corps used to intentionally fit up PvP ships and intentionally come out to fight back against their attackers. About actual *fights* - where BOTH SIDES come to fight, and BOTH SIDES fire guns with the intention of killing their enemy. You don't do this form of PvP. You never have as far as I know. You are a merc corp - not a casual PvPer. So this discussion is *not about you*. At all. Once again? wha?
You just came with statements that did not make sense.. As a merc, who wants to effectivly be able to kill their targets dont sit on hubs.. For the reasons you explained. With blocking their access to get a new ship, you wont be able to kill him again, ie be effective.
Can you define whats "casual pvp" for me.. you are including wars, mercs, hubcamping etc.. but its really not what you ment to say? |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2016.06.04 18:17:48 -
[27] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Can you define whats "casual pvp" for me.. you are including wars, mercs, hubcamping etc.. but its really not what you ment to say? I feel like I've been fairly clear on this point...
Casual PvPers, as I am using the term, are the solo or very small groups (maybe 5 at most) who don't have the numbers to fight you merc corps because we can't break your rr chains. Don't have the numbers to claim sov space, nor to take down the assorted carrier camps/roaming blobs in low-sec. And who are not interested in making the commitment of going -10 sec status to be a proper low-sec solo roamer, or scanning down wormholes/etc constantly to roam there. Therefore, most casual PvPers are left with assorted methods of trying to pick a fight in high sec.
Then, beyond that - specifically for myself I suppose. I actually enjoy a proper fight - even when I lose it. I don't care how many people I kill, or how often I die. I'm in it for the actual small scale fights. I enjoy seeing if my skills and experience can overcome their superior numbers, as well as just seeing what new tactics they sometimes think up to try.
Up until 6-9 months ago, as I said, I could actually get some decent fights out of high sec corporations through war-decs/etc. They used to have some fighting spirit, and they assembled some interesting fleets to bring against me. I even lost some ships to them sometimes - and I enjoyed it.
Recently, they have stopped putting up any resistance or fighting back at all. They act like *I* alone, even on a skill-less alt - am just as scary and hard to fight as *you* - a proper Merc corp. They won't fight back at all - they won't even try. That is the change I'm talking about. The utter loss of fighting spirit among them.
I honestly have no problem with hub camping or with having the goal of killing people regardless of whether they fight back or not. But it isn't my preferred style. ***and it has nothing to do with the fighting spirit of the carebears vs solo/small groups, which is what this thread is about*** |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
214
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Posted - 2016.06.04 21:48:49 -
[28] - Quote
Carebear is a state of mind. They don't want to learn how to EVE. They're the people who will say "Huh, war?" and fly straight into the hubcamps several times. They're the people who will fly an untanked retriever to a belt with flashy red all over local and not hide, more than once. They're also the kind of players will join the big blue donut and mine all day.
Most of the hisec non-merc not-carebears have figured out that the simplest, easiest way to avoid a wardec is to drop corp and/or avoid the hubs, pipes, and mission systems. They know they haven't got any experience actually fighting, so they're going to just lose. They don't really value the experience of learning how to fight because that's not really what they wanted to do anyway, and they know that most of them are at a serious gear and skill sheet disadvantage. So, why fight if you don't have to?
Occasionally you get something fun like Brave wiping out PIRAT's Tengu fleet and POCOs, but they're not really a hisec corp.
A signature :o
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2016.06.05 01:20:48 -
[29] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Carebear is a state of mind. They don't want to learn how to EVE. They're the people who will say "Huh, war?" and fly straight into the hubcamps several times. They're the people who will fly an untanked retriever to a belt with flashy red all over local and not hide, more than once. They're also the kind of players will join the big blue donut and mine all day.
Most of the hisec non-merc not-carebears have figured out that the simplest, easiest way to avoid a wardec is to drop corp and/or avoid the hubs, pipes, and mission systems. They know they haven't got any experience actually fighting, so they're going to just lose. They don't really value the experience of learning how to fight because that's not really what they wanted to do anyway, and they know that most of them are at a serious gear and skill sheet disadvantage. So, why fight if you don't have to?
Occasionally you get something fun like Brave wiping out PIRAT's Tengu fleet and POCOs, but they're not really a hisec corp. Well, contrary to the beliefs of young pilots like you - it wasn't always like that. The majority of carebears used to have some fighting spirit, and many even had some teeth/claws. And while I can't speak for all pilots - I know *I* had a ton of fun as a young noob carebear when I got to defend myself against the big bad professional PvPers.
It *is* a state of mind - but not the state of mind you seem to think.
Shallanna Yassavi wrote: They know they haven't got any experience actually fighting, so they're going to just lose. They don't really value the experience of learning how to fight because that's not really what they wanted to do anyway, and they know that most of them are at a serious gear and skill sheet disadvantage. So, why fight if you don't have to?
^ That is precisely the modern carebear mindset that I don't understand. They could easily win many of the wars vs smaller/non-professional groups, but they all have this attitude that they should just give up....They would rather disband their corporations or even quit EVE entirely than teach the bullies a lesson - even when they COULD win.
They could even win vs the big merc groups if they just worked together. I mean **** - even if every single pilot currently at war with any of the major hub-camping corps showed up in a ****ing rookie ship with the stock civilian weapons they would *still* deal enough damage to break the tank + rr of their ships with ease.
The only thing stopping the carebears from having the safe space to live in that they seem to desire so much is their own insane cowardice and unwillingness to do anything to preserve/defend it...
Also I still consider anybody who doesn't do PvP as their primary activity in EVE as a carebear - it is just how I was raised. If that makes you a carebear - too bad, deal with it. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2016.06.05 01:28:25 -
[30] - Quote
Honestly if I could convince myself that any spark of backbone still lived in the carebears of high sec, I would probably post with my main and attempt to rally the peace loving citizens of high sec to join forces and defeat the big bad scary people making high sec so horrible for them.
And with the ally mechanics, reinforcing one's carebear brethren doesn't even cost a single isk (other than the ammo you expend, and some t1 frigate hulls)...
It would end up much like the movie "A Bug's Life" - when the ants finally realize that although individually they can't defeat the grasshoppers, they outnumber the grasshoppers 1000 to 1 - so if they just worked together they could win so easily it wouldn't even be funny.
I would do this to bring some real content back to EVE high sec. Even though I've never truly considered myself a white knight - I'd do it to bring back some real PvP in the laid back realm that I love.
But alas...I can not convince myself that even the tiniest spark of fighting spirit remains in the modern carebear of high sec. And so I am left merely to lament that casual PvP is pretty much dead. |
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