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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.03 00:54:00 -
[1]
Ok, so I have a system where there's an 'Unknown' signature. Probably one of those lame drone complexes again, but lets not stray away from the intent of this post.
There's several planets in this system, a couple of them are bunched up together. Nothing special there, happens all the time.
But here comes the issue, as probing isnt a 'its there or not' thing, I have no clue if I'm probing the right planet. As a result, I've currently spent over an hour probing planets with no clue if its the right planet, simply doing multiple-scans at each planet (actually a few at once) and hoping I get the "Signature found" message (or whatever it was, its been so long I forgot ).
I understand that probing is based on chance, but cant we go from finding nothing to finding something with a huge scan deviation. At least then we know we're searching at the right spot instead of mindlessly probing planet after planet.
This should work with normal probes as well tbh, increase deviation like with the old probes.
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Nox9407
Caldari Fleet Of Elite
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Posted - 2007.03.03 01:51:00 -
[2]
Sounds like maybe you're only doing 1 prob at a time? Drop a prob at each planet in the system, ctrl click all the probes in your scanner and analyze then all at once. Try and get the probes to overlap at the center planets for better results.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.03 02:12:00 -
[3]
I agree, it's a real time waster.
I propose, when the multi frequency finds a signature, it gives a signature location within 4 AU, the distance of the quest probe. Then we can stop wasting time spam scanning planets. This would also create the ability for devs to not have to place exploration complex near planets, which if they want to go to that mining exploration and system wide belts thing, they're gonna have to do eventually anyway. -AS |
Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nox9407 Sounds like maybe you're only doing 1 prob at a time? Drop a prob at each planet in the system, ctrl click all the probes in your scanner and analyze then all at once. Try and get the probes to overlap at the center planets for better results.
I am/was not doing 1 probe at a time. The problem with that system is that there's about 6 planets all within 2 AU of each other, and I've spend over 2 hours scanning most of them (not all) with as many at once as possible.
I've given up on finding the complex actually, it took someone in the alliance apparently 3 days to find it.
Considering I've got -all- my scan skills at lvl 4 and covert ops at lvl 5, I expected this to be a little easier then it is.
At least if we always find something with a high scan deviation, then at least we know we arent wasting our time. If anything thats the biggest thing I hate about exploration, the amount of time wasted with no clue if your even close.
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Thira Rans
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Posted - 2007.03.03 10:59:00 -
[5]
Come on. whats the sense of exploration when there is no luck or skill involved? According to your idea its jus a matter of time. Drop multispec. Ah at this planet. drop Quest. hit button. there we go. keep in mind that when you want it easier you also will get less reward....
so please, once your changes are made, don't forget to open up a thread where you complain abut the rewards in exploration....
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Bellac
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:24:00 -
[6]
I have to agree with the previous poster here. If it was easy - everyone would do it and there would be no point in going to the hidden site as it would be looted constantly.
I vote to leave things as they are, I have only just started exploration this week, but am having great success so far in finding sites (even though the rewards have been average to poor anly). A bit of patience is all that is needed.
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maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.03 12:55:00 -
[7]
There is nothing wrong with probing, you're just doing it wrong.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.03 15:19:00 -
[8]
What is the skill involved then in checking each planet a ghazilion times with a quest probe in the hope that you get LUCKY?
Because thats all there is, sure you can overlap probes to get better results, but you can only overlap so much. And if you dont know what/where to overlap?
I'm pretty sure that exploration was meant for 80-90% of the eve population actually, and wasnt meant for the 5% of 'elite' people out there. Strangely enough, I doubt CCP made content that only 5% of its subscriber base can hope to find at a reasonable time. And I'm not even part of the 'normal' 80-90% of eve, as my scan probe alt has several milion SP in scanning (covert ops, all the scan probe skills, etc), if I cant find something for several hours, how can the people without all those skills even have a chance?
Not finding a signature in over 2 hours of continues scanning, re-deploying probes ever 20-30 minutes, I'm pretty sure is not the way Exploration is suppose to work. (and to give you the idea about the number of scans, I complete a scan in 144s)
I'm not suggesting an 0m deviation instant find each time, I'm suggesting that instead of a 2AU scan probe deviation, you get a 4AU scan probe deviation on a 4AU probe and that your SKILL actually gets factored in, and you can actually actively overlap your probes to find the spot, or if you want smack 'scan' for hours until you do get within 2AU.
Luck per definition is not skill based, its chance based. Currently exploration is 90% luck, 10% skill. My suggestion is nothing more then increasing the skill element, and reducing the luck element. I mean, even after you found the complex, you still need to complete it.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.05 07:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Thira Rans Come on. whats the sense of exploration when there is no luck or skill involved? According to your idea its jus a matter of time. Drop multispec. Ah at this planet. drop Quest. hit button. there we go.
It's all luck. There's zero skill in training a few skills, droping some probes and hitting the analyze button. All the "skills" are learned from other things, making book marks, avoiding pirates and clicking your cloak button. I suppose patience and "have tv handy lvl 5" is a skill :) -AS |
hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.05 09:56:00 -
[10]
just drop a probe to cover all the planets ( if 4 planets are within the range in the inner systme drop it in the middle it covers every planet) and just keep scanning
Notice youre not in a player corp 3-5 players hitting a system each deploying the probes at the same spot increases youe chances by a factor of 3-5 hpefully quicker finding and therefore quicker farming
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Bellac
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Posted - 2007.03.05 11:11:00 -
[11]
What I do have to say - after finding many empire bases to get the hang of it - that hidden bases in empire are just stoopid. OK Before anyone says it I know there are better bases hidden in low sec, but I just wanted to get the hang of it first.
My gripe is this. OK its empire, but the skills needed to get probing and finding exploration sites is pretty high, so it is impossible for a noob to find these sites. So why makes sites that are basically like a noob training ground. 2 or 3 frigs and very little loot seems the order of the day. In all the sites I have found so far the rat cruiser count is 1 which is just not good enough.
I dont expect to have the uber loot drop in empire - but at least make the minimum site a challenge. Easy lvl 3 I would say should be the minimum difficulty IMHO.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.03.05 21:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 05/03/2007 21:21:08 I think exploration works great, it was a little difficult at first often taking multiple hours on a single site but as i worked on my tenchnique and skills I'm now able to find nearly all the exploration sites I come across with only a single deployment of probes (exclusing the subsuquet use of more acurate probes after the initial signal).
Exploration sites spawn within 4au of some planet, you obviously cant have sites spawning further away from a planet then the longest range probe, Knowing this when encountered with multiple planets within 4 AU's of each other you should drop probes at whatever planets allow you to have probes at as many planets as possible.
After doing this you should use bookmarks to drop probes at the edges of the scan ranges in an attempt to cover as much of the uncovered area 4au around planets too close to drop a probe. This has the added benefit of making it easier to find signals that happen to be in the overlaping regions.
Yes, there are some systyems out there that have their planted placed in locations that just make scanning tedious. For these systems i just pass them over unless i cannot find any other systems with signatures, I save the difficult systems as a last resourt.
Best way to deal with these systems is to scan with someone else, drop probes so that between the 2 of you all possible locations are coverend and then just keep scanning the same spot until something turns up.
You'll hear all sorts of different ways to drop probes to cover more area but the simple truth is that untill you have put a 4au probe at every single planet in a stystem the possibility of missing it by nothing more than a few 100km's is still there.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.05 22:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bellac What I do have to say - after finding many empire bases to get the hang of it - that hidden bases in empire are just stoopid. OK Before anyone says it I know there are better bases hidden in low sec, but I just wanted to get the hang of it first.
My gripe is this. OK its empire, but the skills needed to get probing and finding exploration sites is pretty high, so it is impossible for a noob to find these sites. So why makes sites that are basically like a noob training ground. 2 or 3 frigs and very little loot seems the order of the day. In all the sites I have found so far the rat cruiser count is 1 which is just not good enough.
I dont expect to have the uber loot drop in empire - but at least make the minimum site a challenge. Easy lvl 3 I would say should be the minimum difficulty IMHO.
in a multi player game this exploration stuff was designed for player corps so join a player corp that does it let someone else find em and as part of a co operative corp approach everyone run the pelxes and share rewards.
Until u can get the skills up this game isnt meant to be solo CCP put this stuff in to get players working together and thats whats happening
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Bellac
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Posted - 2007.03.06 00:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: hotgirl933
Originally by: Bellac What I do have to say - after finding many empire bases to get the hang of it - that hidden bases in empire are just stoopid. OK Before anyone says it I know there are better bases hidden in low sec, but I just wanted to get the hang of it first.
My gripe is this. OK its empire, but the skills needed to get probing and finding exploration sites is pretty high, so it is impossible for a noob to find these sites. So why makes sites that are basically like a noob training ground. 2 or 3 frigs and very little loot seems the order of the day. In all the sites I have found so far the rat cruiser count is 1 which is just not good enough.
I dont expect to have the uber loot drop in empire - but at least make the minimum site a challenge. Easy lvl 3 I would say should be the minimum difficulty IMHO.
in a multi player game this exploration stuff was designed for player corps so join a player corp that does it let someone else find em and as part of a co operative corp approach everyone run the pelxes and share rewards.
Until u can get the skills up this game isnt meant to be solo CCP put this stuff in to get players working together and thats whats happening
I think you misunderstand my point. I am not moaning about the high skill requirements for exploration - I think that is a good thing. I am saying that once you find the exploration site in empire its difficulty is far too easy for a character who is actually experienced enough to find it. I want to see mutiple cruiser spawns as a minimum on the combat sites, and if its a mining site give us more than 30 mins of mining before the site is cleared please. Its hardly worth dusting off the covetor to go mining in these sites.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.06 12:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Thira Rans Come on. whats the sense of exploration when there is no luck or skill involved? According to your idea its jus a matter of time. Drop multispec. Ah at this planet. drop Quest. hit button. there we go. keep in mind that when you want it easier you also will get less reward....
so please, once your changes are made, don't forget to open up a thread where you complain abut the rewards in exploration....
From the reports I have seen so far for rewards, it is hardly possible.
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kember
Gallente Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.03.06 12:58:00 -
[16]
Edited by: kember on 06/03/2007 12:55:19
Originally by: Caletha Reborn The problem with that system is that there's about 6 planets all within 2 AU of each other, and I've spend over 2 hours scanning most of them (not all) with as many at once as possible.
When you get the inner planets clustered up, pick the 2 most outer edged of the group, hopefully they will will be just over 4au apart which will give you overlapping coverage and no blind spots.
Also, if possible, set up mid-warp bookmarks to give you extra coverage.
Originally by: Bellac if its a mining site give us more than 30 mins of mining before the site is cleared please. Its hardly worth dusting off the covetor to go mining in these sites.
The "large" sites in empire give more than 30 mins of mining, try mining 124 roids of jaspet, kern and omber in 30 mins
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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.06 14:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Venkul Mul From the reports I have seen so far for rewards, it is hardly possible.
If you heard the rewards in 'normal' space where bad, then think about that, make it worse and then you'll be at the reward level of the drone exploration sites (e.g. in drone space). A drone complex, where no hauler (to pickup alloys) can enter and the biggest rats (most of the time) is cruisers. Sometimes you get 3-6BS, but thats only sometimes.
I've still not heard from anyone that got anything valuable from it. Oh there's a 'chance' for an escalation, sure. I'll believe it when I see it.
But that's a whole different issue, the issue at hand is that (imho) the current exploration sites are too hard to find. I dont think its realistic for someone to spend 2-4 (or sometimes even more) hours trying to find an exploration site, when at least for the first part that person has no clue if he's even looking in the right place.
Remove the chance of finding it (e.g. if its within probe range it'll get picked up) but then also increase deviation. Multiple scans (with perhaps multiple probes) will still need to be done to get to the next 'probe level' (e.g. 4au -> 2au -> 1au -> 0.5au), but at least then for example the deviation reduction skill comes better into play, etc.
Make exploration fun instead of a drag.
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kember
Gallente Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.03.06 14:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: kember on 06/03/2007 14:46:54 Edited by: kember on 06/03/2007 14:46:08
Originally by: Caletha Reborn
Make exploration fun instead of a drag.
Were you doing exploring when you had to use T2 components and Stront? Since they changed that, exploration is much easier/cheaper. Sure there's a time sink involved, but as long as you have complete coverage (see my post above) then you will hit the sig eventually.
I think exploration is fun. Sure you find rubbish stuff sometimes, but that makes it all the more sweeter when you find a good one.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.06 15:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: kember Sure there's a time sink involved, but as long as you have complete coverage (see my post above) then you will hit the sig eventually.
I think exploration is fun. Sure you find rubbish stuff sometimes, but that makes it all the more sweeter when you find a good one.
In my experince, with low sec exploration, the time sink's oppertunity cost is rather high. I could have made more ISK an hour running lvl 4s in high sec with a decent agent.
Twice, out of some 20 odd exploration jaunts, have I found anything worth the same, time/isk wise, as lvl 4 missions. Maybe 0.0 is different, but I don't exactly have easy access. -AS |
Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: kember Were you doing exploring when you had to use T2 components and Stront? Since they changed that, exploration is much easier/cheaper. Sure there's a time sink involved, but as long as you have complete coverage (see my post above) then you will hit the sig eventually.
I think exploration is fun. Sure you find rubbish stuff sometimes, but that makes it all the more sweeter when you find a good one.
Cheaper yes, easier, no (actually all my probes that I still have where made with the old t2-requirements bpo). I was exploring before the multi-spec probe was released.
The multi-spec made it easier, well only a little bit easier. The removal of the t2 material requirements made it cheaper. But its still not fun, at least not in drone land.
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anarland
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Caletha Reborn
Originally by: kember Were you doing exploring when you had to use T2 components and Stront? Since they changed that, exploration is much easier/cheaper. Sure there's a time sink involved, but as long as you have complete coverage (see my post above) then you will hit the sig eventually.
I think exploration is fun. Sure you find rubbish stuff sometimes, but that makes it all the more sweeter when you find a good one.
Cheaper yes, easier, no (actually all my probes that I still have where made with the old t2-requirements bpo). I was exploring before the multi-spec probe was released.
The multi-spec made it easier, well only a little bit easier. The removal of the t2 material requirements made it cheaper. But its still not fun, at least not in drone land.
ya
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Suittam
Gallente The Drone Shop
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Posted - 2007.03.07 09:10:00 -
[22]
I'm with the don't change it / make it easier camp tbh.
I have invested alot of training time in covert ops / cloaking / scanning skills etc, and now find the process of finding these sites much easier as it is.
Sure, some nights i spend hours without any significant find, and it does get tedious. But then, just as you are about to give up, you hit that nice hacking/arch site, and find something worthwhile. Isn't this how exploration is in real life, 90% looking, alot of patience, and a not inconsiderable amount of luck on top.
After all, if it where that easy, everyone would do it, and the rewards would become worthless. It seems to me, that these days everyone wants an i-win button in every part of EVE without the hardwork that goes along with it.
Tell me i'm wrong
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kember
Gallente Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.03.07 10:28:00 -
[23]
Well by "easier" I mean I can now destroy the quest probes and get the shorter range probes out more quickly, whereas before, when using stront probes, I didnt want to waste them and would do a full scan with quests before switching to short range.
Cheaper probes means I can throw more quest probes out at midwarp bms, again making it easier.
The multispec made things a heck of a lot easier! One probe, one scan, no result, move on.
Compare that with doing a full scan with quest probes to get no result. In every system.
I must admit, Im biased here. Ive found a lot of good sites and I love it.
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Thlayli
GREY COUNCIL Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2007.03.08 18:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Suittam I'm with the don't change it / make it easier camp tbh.
Same here...
IŠve finally found something challenging again in this game. Sure, sometimes founding what youŠre scanning for can be a ***** but sometimes youŠll find it after just a couple of scans. Either way, something thatŠs more important to change is the fact that most of the sites are completely useless with crappy to no loot/reward...
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Caletha Reborn
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Posted - 2007.03.09 10:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Thlayli IŠve finally found something challenging again in this game.
I dont see what you find challenging about pressing a button every several minutes in the hopes that this time you do get a scan result back. There's no skill involved, if it had skill then it could be a challenge.
Perhaps I'm ruined by the sites in drone space, perhaps their harder to find, because I've never found a site within 2-3 hours, not once.
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actis mahllett
Caldari UNITED KINGDOM MAYHEM THE V I G I L
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Posted - 2007.05.26 12:52:00 -
[26]
if probing were made easier for everyone, then the chances of finding anything worth much would be a lot smaller. i have found some very valuable stuff in complexes and proffession sites, not to mention the isk bounty in expeditions. please keep it as it is i say.
www.thevigil.co.uk for a guide to exploration..
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OneSock
Silentia Mortalis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.27 08:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: OneSock on 27/05/2007 08:58:43 I kind of agree with the OP, the dropping the 4 AU probe on the system is a real pain some time and if there are many planets in system I often just move on.
I also find that most of the time if you get a hit on a 4 AU probe you can jump directly to a 1 or 0.5 au. I never use the 2au one. pointless.
I would therefore suggest, make the 2au probe 4au, make the 4 au probe 6or8au with the same strength but a bigger deviation. This gives easier coverage, but should be no quicker or easier overall.
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Xade
Caldari K.T.P
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Posted - 2007.05.27 14:10:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Xade on 27/05/2007 14:09:26 There is nothing wrong with the current probing system and the fact it takes a long time to find some sites is exactly how it should be. No point in having something ingame which isn't a challenge. The whole point of it is to make you work for the isk you will get from it just like any other professions in the game. The exploration sites that take longer to find generally seem to be the better sites too.
if it was supposed to be that easy to find, CCP would just have beacons randomly appear in systems after DT and it wouldn't require any effort to find the sites.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.05.27 15:05:00 -
[29]
"Takes longer to find = bigger reward" as a fixed rule of thumb only works with gravimetrics. These do indeed get bigger and more valuable ores the smaller their signature gets. A base 4 radar only takes longer to find than a base 1 site, maybe has a few more hacking cans, but no promises of better loot at all.
That said, leave exploration as it is. I love it. Yes it takes time, but frack, I am exploring the vast emptyness of space. That should take time.
Anyone who wants some sort of fixed near guaranteed ISK per online minute, please, go mining. Just because sth isn't the holy grail of isk/minute it isn't broken. And it certainly doesn't need to be changed. It can still be fun. If it isn't fun for you because you find it boring, well, do something else?
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Krytie
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Posted - 2007.06.04 03:37:00 -
[30]
Here is what I do. I have a few systems that I always scan in. Now, depending on where you drop the quest probe (4AU), you may be outside of the target just slightly as you cannot dro another probe say 1.99 au away as it will overlap. So, what I do is to use bookmarks.
To prepare: I warp to the furthest out planet. Drop a probe. I highlight the probe in the solar system map. (So, you can see the bubble), Then I warp to the areas around it at different angles. Now, while I am warping and once I get just outside of the bubble, I hit my bookmark button (in warp bookmarking). If I hit it just outside the bubble, then I warp there and drop another probe. I meep doing it until I can cover that area with quest probes. Usually 1 planet and 2-3 bookmarks will do. Everything will overlap and the area will be found with much more accuracy.
Once the quest probe find the signal, the rest is very easy and request usually just a sift probe most of the time and occassionaly a comb prob.
Once you have taken the long process of making the bookmarks, the next time it is very quick and easy.
You will of course use more probes per exploration, but time will quicken. I have probe blueprints and got them to ME 40, so the price is not too bad to make them.
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