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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:23:18 -
[1] - Quote
With the introduction of empire safe boosters as well as the antipharmakon boosters I got to thinking about tight ship fits that apply to many people. The rise of the 1%, 2% and 3% implants for ship fitting has risen drastically in usage as well as the Genolution sets which also add static bonuses to ships. Yet all of these apply to ALL hull types and though some are cheap to throw in and out with fits as needed I would love to see a bit of a replacement that gets away from the static implant.
I do not want a booster that lasts, at least not long, yet I also dont want the idea of carrying around boosters in the cargo hold that run out like the other boosters but that are tied to your time in the ship hull itself. That apply ONLY to that hull and any ship change, or destruction immediately voids the booster itself. I think this would keep the booster relatively inexpensive but still fairly useful.
Boosters:
Booster Slot 1
Armor HP: 1%, 2% and 3% Shield HP: 1%, 2% and 3% Hull HP: 1%, 2% and 3%
Booster Slot 2
PG: 1%, 2% and 3% CPU: 1%, 2% and 3%
Booster Slot 3
Speed and Agility: 1%, 2% and 3% to both
None of these trip over the existing boosters and by using the relative booster slots you cannot HP AND booster tank with regular boosters. And add in flavors that the new antipharmakon do not cover but are some of the most used fitting and desires of modern Eve warfare.
They would have to be priced comparably and sourced from a new source so as not to trip over the static implant markets for the added flexibility and usage. They would need to be seen as expendables along with the hull and would have some overlap with existing fitting implants but never too much, right about in line with the new antipharmakon %s really other than the very expensive top end implants and sets.
We as players swap hulls and die enough that the added bonuses would not be too long lasting and perfect for null or WHs where implant loss upon death is a much chagrined issue and hence most pilots will shy away from using them at all. This would offer a quick alternative to this as well as its a one time use commodity rather than anything else.
Thoughts?
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 11:26:44 -
[2] - Quote
Something I just thought of was that if it were a timed booster that you would be able to inject more earlier unlike the other boosters or else if you forgot and it timed out modules would literally offline or if your ship was badly damaged and those HPs were keeping it alive it would simply go boom. This factor in the heat of battle would certainly make for some interesting stories and funny killmails as it would give a 'time' management aspect to the boosters themselves.
If this was the case then a crimewatch style timer would be needed rather than the one in the character sheet imo for these boosters.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2154
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 12:44:57 -
[3] - Quote
If you don't use implants because you are afraid of losing them - you probably don't want them all that bad.
Implants can give some very powerful bonus to a large range of things. This is the good side. You lose them when you get podded. This is the down side. Such is the way with eve.
It seems like you are trying to get the implant style bonus w/out the possibility of loss. If your booster idea were successful - certain implants would become worthless (not good for the game).
If they worked on top of implants - you would create a whole new facet to game balancing. Even if they didn't stack, I could attribute booster one attribute to free up an implant spot to boost another attribute (effectively doubling the number of hard wire implants through chemistry)
-1 because of the game balance issues it would create. (too powerful) |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 13:16:45 -
[4] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:If you don't use implants because you are afraid of losing them - you probably don't want them all that bad.
Implants can give some very powerful bonus to a large range of things. This is the good side. You lose them when you get podded. This is the down side. Such is the way with eve.
It seems like you are trying to get the implant style bonus w/out the possibility of loss. If your booster idea were successful - certain implants would become worthless (not good for the game).
If they worked on top of implants - you would create a whole new facet to game balancing. Even if they didn't stack, I could attribute booster one attribute to free up an implant spot to boost another attribute (effectively doubling the number of hard wire implants through chemistry)
-1 because of the game balance issues it would create. (too powerful)
You speak of it being too powerful but even with stacking it ironically wouldnt given the new iteration of the antipharmakons with 8% booster stats, nevermind that stacking, at max 3% implants on top of one another, that are situational at best with other fitting implants would only create up to 9% fitting with a 6% implant and 8% with a 5% implant. There are a few that would stack much better like with slave sets and would be only applicable to armor and not shield which are much more current metas atm. Yet even adding at max a 3% armor bonus would be small potatoes to having lets say full armor boosts, a high grade slave set plus the armor slot 10 hardwiring already. This change would not make the few billion that this setup would cost anyway any more OP than it currently is and the armor one is the only one that would really stack given all the implants available. The same goes for fitting implants imo.
The ability to stack these can also be changed with regard to drop rate, resource gathering rates as well as relative price set by CCP.
They wouldnt replace the current implants tbh as they are used up when either your ship goes boom or you swap to a new ship. How often in a gaming session do you change your ships? I think for most players this alone would make it fringe usage compared to implants which will persist through ship swaps AND ship destruction. Only if you get podded will they die. So the usage would be entirely situational just like using implants now is, but moreso because of the length of time the booster stays active and tied to the ship in such a way.
So instead of plugging in an implant for a ship fit and destroying it you would be plugging in a booster instead. You can either use the booster or the implant or both. The different usages would give a boost to certain ships in certain situations just like you would an implant but its ironically a lot less valuable due to its lack of persistence. You have the same functionality atm, you can literally destroy implants and reinject implants at will if you want to. This would just open up a new avenue for the same functionality, add a bit wider range of bonuses if combined, and add a new resource to harvest from a new source.
So all you are really doing is taking away the pressure from the high sec implant market and moving it to.... wherever CCP deems it to go.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2156
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 15:24:19 -
[5] - Quote
I'm at the point in my eve career where you can't limit stacking by limiting drop rates or availability. I'm just that space rich that price doesn't matter to me.
Drop rates don't actually work anymore. Look what goons (pre curb stomp) did to the price of pith x gear. They over botted and many of my standard active shield tanks use -X stuff. Anything farmable and expensive will be farmed until the price comes down. CCP has Monty Halled everything to a point where nothing is scarce at this point.
Look up the definition of irony. (ironically - coincidentally and ironically are not synonyms)
Instead of plugging in an implant for a fit and destroying it - I would plug in an implant for a fit AND consume a booster that also augments that fit (doubling down) AND still not care (just like now) that I lost the implant. Coincidentally I could do this 5 times (5 hard wire slots) in some cases. And still not care that I lost the implants.
This would be a silly boost to rich high skilled players such as myself and I would use it to skew any combat situation as far in my favor as possible. Poors and newbros would suffer soul crushing assbeatings all thanks to you. Apply this to the linked boosted logi and falcon supported proteus pilot farming pipes in empire (low risk of losing anything) and it starts to become absurd.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 15:52:02 -
[6] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I'm at the point in my eve career where you can't limit stacking by limiting drop rates or availability. I'm just that space rich that price doesn't matter to me.
Drop rates don't actually work anymore. Look what goons (pre curb stomp) did to the price of pith x gear. They over botted and many of my standard active shield tanks use -X stuff. Anything farmable and expensive will be farmed until the price comes down. CCP has Monty Halled everything to a point where nothing is scarce at this point.
Look up the definition of irony. (ironically - coincidentally and ironically are not synonyms)
Instead of plugging in an implant for a fit and destroying it - I would plug in an implant for a fit AND consume a booster that also augments that fit (doubling down) AND still not care (just like now) that I lost the implant. Coincidentally I could do this 5 times (5 hard wire slots) in some cases. And still not care that I lost the implants.
This would be a silly boost to rich high skilled players such as myself and I would use it to skew any combat situation as far in my favor as possible. Poors and newbros would suffer soul crushing assbeatings all thanks to you. Apply this to the linked boosted logi and falcon supported proteus pilot farming pipes in empire (low risk of losing anything) and it starts to become absurd.
So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that.
Yet the reality is that CCP has made changes and continues to make changes that DO affect the game and balancing them significantly all in spite of everything you just argued entirely negating your negative attitude towards changes and your personal point of view regarding them.
You argue that because YOU personally can buy the game that nothing should change. You do realize that I have been playing the same game for 13 years too right? I know exactly, usually well ahead of time, like a lot of the vets how to manipulate and game the system and usually within a few days or weeks of knowing any change how it will affect the entire system as a whole, top down or bottom up, and how to set myself in an advantageous position to do so if I desire. What you argue isnt something new. No in fact its more a diatribe about how uber leet you think you are because you are space rich and how CCP has ruined your horribly fat stacks of isk with its "Monty Halled" skewing of drop rates, farming and mechanics. All I hear is nothing but boo hoo hoo from a bitter vet tbh.
But unlike you I actually enjoy playing Eve and continue to play it, not because of some sunk cost fallacy, but cuz it is fun. Its fun to watch, grow and learn and play the game. Its fun to come up with NEW things to do or think about. Its fun to study humanity and human interactions in a very brutal and dark system, one much more honest about it in some ways than life actually is. So if you want to bitter vet and min/max and cry all over this thread well then by all means go ahead. Ill chuckle to myself about it all. but just cuz YOU are at the point in your career where.... doesnt mean everyone else is, cares, or wants to be you. I can spend my way to glory too, but Id much rather challenge myself more often than not to grow in new and unexpected ways. Often this means by handicapping myself on purpose to see if I can actually accomplish a set goal. Maybe instead of buying your way to something you should try something along those lines. Or you can boo hoo hoo all over the forums. Your choice.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2931
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 16:31:39 -
[7] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that.
Adding an extra layer of min-maxing won't help those who suffer "soul crushing" defeat to the hand of min-maxer at all. Even if they were to use the booster while they didn't use the implants, the min-maxer would just use both. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2158
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 16:52:54 -
[8] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that.
Adding an extra layer of min-maxing won't help those who suffer "soul crushing" defeat to the hand of min-maxer at all. Even if they were to use the booster while they didn't use the implants, the min-maxer would just use both.
Although, the soul crushing defeat would be a bit faster, so maybe it would only feel mostly soul crushing in lieu of totally soul crushing. That would only help the soul crush-ee if he felt both so as to be able to compare the soul crushes and then be able to feel better about the one than the other. I'm not sure that would actually help anything.
Eternus - you would just be handing out bigger mallets to folks with the additional wallet and additional SP to wield them. The basis of your idea is to open up a means to further skew game balance in their favor. I get that you're going for a cheaper way to boost attributes, but that's not the reality of your idea. On a basic level, the game is more balanced (more easily balanced) with fewer +1 mechanics in the game. It's tough enough with: gang boosts + pirate implants + hardwires + combat boosters. You're idea just adds another addend into the equation. |
Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2933
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:02:11 -
[9] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that.
Adding an extra layer of min-maxing won't help those who suffer "soul crushing" defeat to the hand of min-maxer at all. Even if they were to use the booster while they didn't use the implants, the min-maxer would just use both. Although, the soul crushing defeat would be a bit faster, so maybe it would only feel mostly soul crushing in lieu of totally soul crushing. That would only help the soul crush-ee if he felt both so as to be able to compare the soul crushes and then be able to feel better about the one than the other. I'm not sure that would actually help anything. Eternus - you would just be handing out bigger mallets to folks with the additional wallet and additional SP to wield them. The basis of your idea is to open up a means to further skew game balance in their favor. I get that you're going for a cheaper way to boost attributes, but that's not the reality of your idea. On a basic level, the game is more balanced (more easily balanced) with fewer +1 mechanics in the game. It's tough enough with: gang boosts + pirate implants + hardwires + combat boosters. You're idea just adds another addend into the equation.
He might reach part of his goal if his booster gave the same bonus as implants and were exclusive so you could not double up. Problem is, the fitting one would be a major PITA to deal with by constantly having to pop pills even if you didn't die...
As a side question, what happen if you lose PG/CPU while in a ship which need it? Let's say you rip an implant? Can you even do so while still in a ship? Do module randomly shutdown? |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2158
|
Posted - 2016.06.21 17:02:29 -
[10] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:I'm at the point in my eve career where you can't limit stacking by limiting drop rates or availability. I'm just that space rich that price doesn't matter to me.
Drop rates don't actually work anymore. Look what goons (pre curb stomp) did to the price of pith x gear. They over botted and many of my standard active shield tanks use -X stuff. Anything farmable and expensive will be farmed until the price comes down. CCP has Monty Halled everything to a point where nothing is scarce at this point.
Look up the definition of irony. (ironically - coincidentally and ironically are not synonyms)
Instead of plugging in an implant for a fit and destroying it - I would plug in an implant for a fit AND consume a booster that also augments that fit (doubling down) AND still not care (just like now) that I lost the implant. Coincidentally I could do this 5 times (5 hard wire slots) in some cases. And still not care that I lost the implants.
This would be a silly boost to rich high skilled players such as myself and I would use it to skew any combat situation as far in my favor as possible. Poors and newbros would suffer soul crushing assbeatings all thanks to you. Apply this to the linked boosted logi and falcon supported proteus pilot farming pipes in empire (low risk of losing anything) and it starts to become absurd.
So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that. Yet the reality is that CCP has made changes and continues to make changes that DO affect the game and balancing them significantly all in spite of everything you just argued entirely negating your negative attitude towards changes and your personal point of view regarding them. You argue that because YOU personally can buy the game that nothing should change. You do realize that I have been playing the same game for 13 years too right? I know exactly, usually well ahead of time, like a lot of the vets how to manipulate and game the system and usually within a few days or weeks of knowing any change how it will affect the entire system as a whole, top down or bottom up, and how to set myself in an advantageous position to do so if I desire. What you argue isnt something new. No in fact its more a diatribe about how uber leet you think you are because you are space rich and how CCP has ruined your horribly fat stacks of isk with its "Monty Halled" skewing of drop rates, farming and mechanics. All I hear is nothing but boo hoo hoo from a bitter vet tbh. But unlike you I actually enjoy playing Eve and continue to play it, not because of some sunk cost fallacy, but cuz it is fun. Its fun to watch, grow and learn and play the game. Its fun to come up with NEW things to do or think about. Its fun to study humanity and human interactions in a very brutal and dark system, one much more honest about it in some ways than life actually is. So if you want to bitter vet and min/max and cry all over this thread well then by all means go ahead. Ill chuckle to myself about it all. but just cuz YOU are at the point in your career where.... doesnt mean everyone else is, cares, or wants to be you. I can spend my way to glory too, but Id much rather challenge myself more often than not to grow in new and unexpected ways. Often this means by handicapping myself on purpose to see if I can actually accomplish a set goal. Maybe instead of buying your way to something you should try something along those lines. Or you can boo hoo hoo all over the forums. Your choice.
I think you're reading some things into my post that aren't there. I'm not elite, I'm not awesome at eve, I'm not angry and I don't measure my in game wealth against others and feel good or bad. You got me all wrong. I was just using 'me' as an example. I could have just as easily put Ruffio Serpico in there. He won a DCU II BPO back in the lottery days. He's trillions rich - I'm not close to being on that scale.
I love this game - I don't want you to break it for everyone (I'm selfless like that).
Lighten up Francis
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:26:49 -
[11] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:So basically what youre saying is that you would min/max irregardless and basically game the system like youre doing now and that in the end nothing would change correct? So then really we should do nothing to change what is already happening so that you can continue to give soul crushing defeats to poor noobs because you are space rich and do not care? You are a piece of work arent you with a mentality like that.
Adding an extra layer of min-maxing won't help those who suffer "soul crushing" defeat to the hand of min-maxer at all. Even if they were to use the booster while they didn't use the implants, the min-maxer would just use both. Although, the soul crushing defeat would be a bit faster, so maybe it would only feel mostly soul crushing in lieu of totally soul crushing. That would only help the soul crush-ee if he felt both so as to be able to compare the soul crushes and then be able to feel better about the one than the other. I'm not sure that would actually help anything. Eternus - you would just be handing out bigger mallets to folks with the additional wallet and additional SP to wield them. The basis of your idea is to open up a means to further skew game balance in their favor. I get that you're going for a cheaper way to boost attributes, but that's not the reality of your idea. On a basic level, the game is more balanced (more easily balanced) with fewer +1 mechanics in the game. It's tough enough with: gang boosts + pirate implants + hardwires + combat boosters. You're idea just adds another addend into the equation. He might reach part of his goal if his booster gave the same bonus as implants and were exclusive so you could not double up. Problem is, the fitting one would be a major PITA to deal with by constantly having to pop pills even if you didn't die... As a side question, what happen if you lose PG/CPU while in a ship which need it? Let's say you rip an implant? Can you even do so while still in a ship? Do module randomly shutdown? You could do it by using a timer function. It would add a boost that if not managed properly would create such a situation that modules would shut off randomly while in space and need to be onlined the old fashioned way; either 90% capacitor, a ship maintenance bay or a deployable.
The issue with a timer is that the normal boosters cant be reinjected until AFTER the other booster ends which would force the shut downs so as to alleviate that you would need to create a special condition for these that they can be reinjected before the end of the first cycle. This would ironically add enough of a downside given the need to have extra boosters in your hold, running out of boosters or mistiming your boosters and having "catastrophic" ship/module failures in the heat of battle. It would tbh the ideal balancing prerequisite.
The issue of bigger mallets has always been on in game design. The issue of power creep itself. Yet this almost always occurs in some nature. Even the price decreases of faction and ded space modules over the years and the rebalancing of all things meta to be worse than T2 introduces the demand for power creep in the game itself. All of which CCP seems to be more than okay with at this junction. The introduction of the Antipharmakon boosters, replacing the 3% synths and the fairly new Nugoehuvi synth 5% with 8% legal boosters and the introduction of the beginning of total legal booster usage in empire all smack of it as well. The introduction of T3Ds, pirate classes or even the larger classes of ships throughout the game also is a form of power creep.
So truly though I understand where you are coming from I cant side with your viewpoint on it due to the overwhelming evidence within the game itself.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
795
|
Posted - 2016.06.22 04:30:55 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think you're reading some things into my post that aren't there. I'm not elite, I'm not awesome at eve, I'm not angry and I don't measure my in game wealth against others and feel good or bad. You got me all wrong. I was just using 'me' as an example. I could have just as easily put Ruffio Serpico in there. He won a DCU II BPO back in the lottery days. He's trillions rich - I'm not close to being on that scale.
I love this game - I don't want you to break it for everyone (I'm selfless like that).
Lighten up Francis
Yet everything in your initial reply simply stated how you WOULD game the system and veritably "break" it..... This was in fact the basis for your entire argument, that it COULD be gamed. Sorry to break it to you but it will always be gamed, it is the nature of humanity to do so even as you so all to well showed that you would break it simply because its there to break. To which I suggested simply then 'dont.' Instead do something more and move beyond it. Or you can just be one of the proverbial herd. Again your choice.
Btw... I actually challenge YOU to come up with something that cannot be gamed in any way. Ill wait... I realize Ill die before you do though.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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