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Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
333
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Posted - 2016.06.22 02:12:26 -
[1] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/upwell-criticized-by-inner-circle-after-serpentis-raids/
I don't know if Upwell was going for subtle, but this is an interesting first move by Raish-jaijii as the Jove representative of Inner Circle.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
31
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Posted - 2016.06.22 05:04:38 -
[2] - Quote
Neph wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/upwell-criticized-by-inner-circle-after-serpentis-raids/
I don't know if Upwell was going for subtle, but this is an interesting first move by Raish-jaijii as the Jove representative of Inner Circle. Yep right now it seems that CONCORD uses their nearly absolute power to get everything they want |
chaosjj
Haggis neeps 'n tatties Einstein-Rosen Brigade
85
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Posted - 2016.06.22 07:55:34 -
[3] - Quote
CONCORD, the small greedy child that throws a tandrum when it does not get what it wants... |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2668
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Posted - 2016.06.22 11:04:09 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1511
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Posted - 2016.06.22 13:44:31 -
[5] - Quote
I think CONCORD is just jealous that capsuleers are doing their job better than them.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8422
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Posted - 2016.06.22 15:48:30 -
[6] - Quote
Hm.
With all due respect to CONCORD and Mr. Raish, the Upwell Consortium is in no way beholden to surrender materials without compensation to the DED, and its major components are based outside of secure space. Admittedly, many Upwell members are indeed scattered among the empires, but the core leadership is likely inaccessible.
I would advise Mr. Raish to consider the carrot instead of the stick, and attempt a more conciliatory approach.
After all, if engaged properly, Upwell has already done CONCORD's work. Angrily denouncing them for having done this work and demanding the spoils is not a constructive approach to this situation.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Sinjin Mokk
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
971
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Posted - 2016.06.22 16:17:08 -
[7] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect...
I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
412
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Posted - 2016.06.23 01:33:55 -
[8] - Quote
As a supporter of the Society and one who has been acting as a retailer for Astrahus' created by Upwell; I find this announcement unsettling. I wonder if the corruption of CONCORD has rubbed off on Matshi Raish or if I should invest my funds elsewhere.
Hmmm... which is the larger threat?
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2669
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Posted - 2016.06.23 01:58:06 -
[9] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:Diana Kim wrote:I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect... I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish. Suitable, not subtle, Mr. Mokk. She called him 'foreigner', it sort of made me smile awkwardly. It would suit way better gallentean occupants in Black Rise or on Caldari Prime, when we yell at them "Jaijii go home!"
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
334
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Posted - 2016.06.23 05:19:07 -
[10] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:Diana Kim wrote:I don't think it is correct to reference Mr. Raish as jaijii (though technically he is). There are more suitable ways to show disrespect... I think I'm quite ***king past the point of subtle disrespect with people like Raish. Suitable, not subtle, Mr. Mokk. She called him 'foreigner', it sort of made me smile awkwardly. It would suit way better gallentean occupants in Black Rise or on Caldari Prime, when we yell at them "Jaijii go home!"
Hmm, that's interesting. Regional differences, perhaps--where I grew up, Jaijii meant an honorable or well-respected foreigner. Here I was thinking I was giving Raish-jaijii his due respect. Gallentean occupants who deserved the slur we called tyuui.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2671
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Posted - 2016.06.23 08:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
'Tyuui' more suits pirates and traitors from my point of view. When I was in the academy we used slur 'kakku' for gallenteans. Though there wasn't a war yet.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
366
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Posted - 2016.06.23 19:27:20 -
[12] - Quote
Meteoric rise to power. Economic dominance in a fast growing field. Deployment of military assets against potential non-combatants. Surreptitious seizure of blueprints and construction materials pertaining to superweapons.
I don't see why the DED would have any interest in this matter. Not at all. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
721
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Posted - 2016.06.24 03:21:03 -
[13] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:Meteoric rise to power. Economic dominance in a fast growing field. Deployment of military assets against potential non-combatants. Surreptitious seizure of blueprints and construction materials pertaining to superweapons.
I don't see why the DED would have any interest in this matter. Not at all.
On the other hand it could be as simple as pure unadulturated greed.
I mean lets face facts whose the biggest market bar none for military technology and yes, superweapons - Us whose got more money and more willingness to spend it than anyone else in the cluster - Us whose just come off the back of the biggest war in recent history and is in a perfect place to want upgraded military assets - Us.
I cannot blame Upwell for securing assets to break into the biggest most profitable market in the whole of New Eden when its staring them right in the damn face, they'd be fools not to try.
As a Caldari I know this better than anyone, when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing and I see no reason why Upwell would be any different.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
336
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Posted - 2016.06.24 03:46:05 -
[14] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing
No it isn't.
Competition is the only important thing. Sontoso. War. The angry clash between steel and steel to sharpen them both. They fight, but they respect each other. They spar, but they are brother.
Money is a result of winning the competition. By making money the aim and not the reward, you rob yourself of your profit--not of currency, but of spirit. This is corruption: Upwell seems intent to sell its soul to us, for what? Money alone?
It's not that Upwell isn't "playing by the rules", it's that they seem to want to crush all competition. Of course CONCORD isn't maintaining the balance out of some selfless motivation for Upwell's own good--no, they're looking out for themselves. Can't let anybody get too powerful or the game breaks and they can't play any more. So what? That's the way it should be. Everybody looks out for themselves, yet recognizes when compromises must be made for everybody's benefit. In the long term, everybody wins, money is made, and we all become better.
Upwell should submit, the materials should be distributed among the empires fairly, as DED is supposed to, and if they are as strong a corporation as they seem to be, they will find another product or line of research and succeed there, all the stronger for it. Get-rich-quick-and-eke-out-the-competition schemes don't build strength and resilience.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
336
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 03:49:22 -
[15] - Quote
That said, it would be fair to give Upwell the go-ahead to bring their products and research to market first, since they had the initiative to obtain it. A slap on the wrist for their dubious methods, of course, but the past is the past.
Eventually, the empires will catch up, but Upwell will get initial market share and a jump on development. Everything will balance itself out from there and competition will make sure it does not grow stagnant.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
722
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Posted - 2016.06.24 03:56:08 -
[16] - Quote
Neph wrote:Darek Castigatus wrote:when it comes to Corporations making money is the only important thing No it isn't. Competition is the only important thing. Sontoso. War. The angry clash between steel and steel to sharpen them both. They fight, but they respect each other. They spar, but they are brother. Money is a result of winning the competition. By making money the aim and not the reward, you rob yourself of your profit--not of currency, but of spirit. This is corruption: Upwell seems intent to sell its soul to us, for what? Money alone? It's not that Upwell isn't "playing by the rules", it's that they seem to want to crush all competition. Of course CONCORD isn't maintaining the balance out of some selfless motivation for Upwell's own good--no, they're looking out for themselves. Can't let anybody get too powerful or the game breaks and they can't play any more. So what? That's the way it should be. Everybody looks out for themselves, yet recognizes when compromises must be made for everybody's benefit. In the long term, everybody wins, money is made, and we all become better. Upwell should submit, the materials should be distributed among the empires fairly, as DED is supposed to, and if they are as strong a corporation as they seem to be, they will find another product or line of research and succeed there, all the stronger for it. Get-rich-quick-and-eke-out-the-competition schemes don't build strength and resilience.
Dont be daft, why should Upwell kneecap themselves just to satisfy some nebulous principle? If the others want the tech that badly then work out a licensing agreement for it and you know, offer what they think its going to be worth to them. Upwell made the effort and took the risks so they should get to have the rewards and if other people want a piece of the pie when they did nothing to earn it then they can pay for a seat at the table.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
336
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 04:24:25 -
[17] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Dont be daft, why should Upwell kneecap themselves just to satisfy some nebulous principle? If the others want the tech that badly then work out a licensing agreement for it and you know, offer what they think its going to be worth to them. Upwell made the effort and took the risks so they should get to have the rewards and if other people want a piece of the pie when they did nothing to earn it then they can pay for a seat at the table.
Please don't misunderstand me. Upwell won't kneecap themselves. The tech is almost certainly destabilizing. It's in the empires and CONCORD's best interest to level the playing field as much as possible. We all know Upwell has no need whatsoever to license their stolen IP; they are more than fully capable of exploiting it and bringing it to market alone. Monopolies are no good for anybody, not even the monopoly.
Of course, it's not like Upwell's supposed to realize this and be all "Our bad, here's this free stuff". CONCORD was unilaterally created to take care of these situations, and they leverage their considerable power well here. If Upwell isn't controlled, even if they have some amazing guiding principle to keep them from doing so, will doubtlessly be capable of building an extremely high-tech supercapital/citadel force able to challenge the Big Four, and probably with hordes of loyal capsuleers at their backs. CONCORD knows this. The empires know this. If Upwell doesn't comply, this will inevitably be nipped in the bud with the light of four different races of doomsdays. It's in their best interest to play along here, and I'm sure they know it. Don't be fooled! This is self-interest and "unfairness" on everybody's part, but it's for the good of the whole.
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
729
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Posted - 2016.06.26 05:48:46 -
[18] - Quote
And yet its not for the good of the whole is it, its the empires wanting to retain an advantage over everyone else and CONCORD is nothing more than their puppet. How many billions of people on thousands of planets throughout the cluster live their entire lives never seeing any of the safety the empires claim to provide yet constantly being squeezed by them for everything they can produce. They expect us to fight the Sansha incursions, us to fight drifters, us to fight in their stupid little proxy war and they never do anything to deserve that kind of service from us.
They certainly don't deserve it from Upwell either.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
509
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:36:52 -
[19] - Quote
I am surprised to see so many supporting a private corporate conglomerate withholding technology stolen from pirates against the people who protect the core of new eden from threat.
The devastation following the Revenants Sansha deployed should be warning enough what may happen when the nation's of high sec lose the arms race. I have seen the Vendetta in trials myself; CONCORD, or perhaps just Matshi, are wise to move to combat it and what it represents. UC of course, cares more about profit than the security of new eden. The profit in selling their version of security.
I expect little more than a token gesture from them. And from CONCORD, even less. The inner circle is weak. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
509
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:43:14 -
[20] - Quote
Quote:GÇ£When we reveal these designs to the cluster it will force them to listen. TheyGÇÖll have no choice. ItGÇÖs only then that the Federation will realize that their overconfidence and carelessness with the Molyneux was the catalyst that created the monster they now have to face.
As for Arteu, rejoining the fray was the biggest mistake of his life, and IGÇÖll be sure the old fraud knows it by the time IGÇÖm done with him and his new friends.GÇ¥
Salvador Sarpati GÇô Low Orbit Capital Shipyard, Serpentis Prime GÇô 118/06/01 Upwell are doing what is best for everyone by withholding what they have found I am sure. You are all right in thinking it is simple greed that motivates CONCORD. |
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Slayer Liberator
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
39
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:50:07 -
[21] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Quote:GÇ£When we reveal these designs to the cluster it will force them to listen. TheyGÇÖll have no choice. ItGÇÖs only then that the Federation will realize that their overconfidence and carelessness with the Molyneux was the catalyst that created the monster they now have to face.
As for Arteu, rejoining the fray was the biggest mistake of his life, and IGÇÖll be sure the old fraud knows it by the time IGÇÖm done with him and his new friends.GÇ¥
Salvador Sarpati GÇô Low Orbit Capital Shipyard, Serpentis Prime GÇô 118/06/01 Upwell are doing what is best for everyone by withholding what they have found I am sure. You are all right in thinking it is simple greed that motivates CONCORD. The main issue is that CONCORD asked for the items without compensation |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
729
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Posted - 2016.06.26 13:54:09 -
[22] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:Quote:GÇ£When we reveal these designs to the cluster it will force them to listen. TheyGÇÖll have no choice. ItGÇÖs only then that the Federation will realize that their overconfidence and carelessness with the Molyneux was the catalyst that created the monster they now have to face.
As for Arteu, rejoining the fray was the biggest mistake of his life, and IGÇÖll be sure the old fraud knows it by the time IGÇÖm done with him and his new friends.GÇ¥
Salvador Sarpati GÇô Low Orbit Capital Shipyard, Serpentis Prime GÇô 118/06/01 Upwell are doing what is best for everyone by withholding what they have found I am sure. You are all right in thinking it is simple greed that motivates CONCORD.
So one mans grudge justifies letting them act like tyrants?
But if we're talking about one man, lets focus a bit more on this Raish character, ever since the SOCT got into the Inner Circle they've had this obsessive interest in Upwell and everything its been doing. Yes its a major industrial consortium but since when has the SOCT ever given a toss about that before?
I think we should be more worried about that agenda than one man who has a taste for the dramatic and really hates the Gallente.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
513
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Posted - 2016.06.28 00:30:08 -
[23] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:I think we should be more worried about that agenda than one man who has a taste for the dramatic and really hates the Gallente. That man is the leader of the Serpentis. It is his word that has driven all of this. His word is the only one that matters. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
513
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Posted - 2016.06.28 00:35:27 -
[24] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/pressure-mounts-on-upwell-to-hand-over-serpentis-data-and-hardware/ The Federation and Republic add their weight to Matshi's words.
"We will not stand by and watch a for-profit consortium of corporations toy with the safety of the Gallente people by holding back intelligence on enemy capability that could be vital to bolstering the security of Federal borders against potential attack.GÇ¥ -Director Blaque of the FIO
"A privately owned, for profit consortium should not be in a position where it is permitted to hold back intelligence that poses a risk to the security of any sovereign state in the cluster.GÇ¥ -Girn Egnai, regional Director of Operations for the RSS in Metropolis. |
Ayallah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
513
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Posted - 2016.06.28 00:42:01 -
[25] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/concord-and-upwell-agree-technology-sharing-deal-with-scope-network-to-act-as-broker/ Upwell capitulates after intervention by Lous Chavol, founder of the Scope and controlling share owner.
In case you have not been paying attention, Elder Mentor Matshi Raish has just used CONCORD's power. Empyreans should be wary of this man and what he can do, It seems he is not content to simply let CONCORD trickle away.
Upwell is not a small fish and this is a larger ripple than it seems against the independent of New Eden. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
731
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Posted - 2016.06.28 04:44:53 -
[26] - Quote
Ayallah wrote:https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/concord-and-upwell-agree-technology-sharing-deal-with-scope-network-to-act-as-broker/ Upwell capitulates after intervention by Lous Chavol, founder of the Scope and controlling share owner.
In case you have not been paying attention, Elder Mentor Matshi Raish has just used CONCORD's power. Empyreans should be wary of this man and what he can do, It seems he is not content to simply let CONCORD trickle away.
Upwell is not a small fish and this is a larger ripple than it seems against the independent of New Eden.
Proving my point perfectly, Raish is someone we need to be looking into much more closely. I am willing to assist in any way i can but my presence in high security space tends to make the authorities a bit excitable, not sure exactly how much I'll be able to do.
Lest people forget this was also the man whose vessel was destroyed for scanning Jamyls titan mere days before it was destroyed by the drifters.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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The Golden Serpent
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
167
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Posted - 2016.07.04 11:42:24 -
[27] - Quote
Well he is right to be suspicious, it's basically all government sanctioned theft. Nobody has any right to the fruits of the labors of the Serpentis employees. The S corporation was right to split from the disgusting Gallente government, my family was never prevented from researching or producing anything useful by our government it just goes to show you how shallow and nonexistent Gallente freedom is. At this point it's just one underdog corporation fighting against a much larger and more powerful tyranny and its brute hound the Upwell Consortium. It boggles my mind how any so-called freedom loving Gallente cannot see how tyrannical and disgusting the actions of their government are. But they never saw it with the treatment of the Caldari either. The Amarr will never trust blatant thieves like the Upwell Consortium, clearly they have no morals and hide their greed and lust for power under a thin veil of self-righteousness. Against what? Boosters, and anti-depressants?!!! The Gallente government may claim that because they are stupid and tyrannical, but the Upwell Consortium is in it for power, money and for the research their technicians are too dull and stupid to be able to come up with themselves.
Right is right and wrong is wrong and theft is a much worse crime than chemical research which could help save lives or promote mankind's technology.
I said it before a thousand times now Scope is evil and no God fearing person would listen to them their motives are clear. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
731
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Posted - 2016.07.04 21:21:27 -
[28] - Quote
The Golden Serpent wrote:Well he is right to be suspicious, it's basically all government sanctioned theft. Nobody has any right to the fruits of the labors of the Serpentis employees. The S corporation was right to split from the disgusting Gallente government, my family was never prevented from researching or producing anything useful by our government it just goes to show you how shallow and nonexistent Gallente freedom is. At this point it's just one underdog corporation fighting against a much larger and more powerful tyranny and its brute hound the Upwell Consortium. It boggles my mind how any so-called freedom loving Gallente cannot see how tyrannical and disgusting the actions of their government are. But they never saw it with the treatment of the Caldari either. The Amarr will never trust blatant thieves like the Upwell Consortium, clearly they have no morals and hide their greed and lust for power under a thin veil of self-righteousness. Against what? Boosters, and anti-depressants?!!! The Gallente government may claim that because they are stupid and tyrannical, but the Upwell Consortium is in it for power, money and for the research their technicians are too dull and stupid to be able to come up with themselves.
Right is right and wrong is wrong and theft is a much worse crime than chemical research which could help save lives or promote mankind's technology.
I said it before a thousand times now Scope is evil and no God fearing person would listen to them their motives are clear.
Riiiight.
First off take some of that booster isk and inject a skillbook on how to write a damn paragraph. Secondly realise that pretty much everyone here doesnt give two ***** about your merry band of drug peddling weirdos, we're more concerned with the fact the empires appear to be becoming more hardline in dealing with those who operate outside their influence and are not afraid to use CONCORD to do their bidding.
Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
you're welcome
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