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Dartgnan
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha TOGETHER WE STAND
10
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:05:08 -
[91] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:You are the dumbest person in this entire thread.
Takes one to know one :) |

Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
336
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 16:07:12 -
[92] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once tethering tech has been fully implemented, will you not be able to use even medium citadels to protect supercaps?
~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
GÇ£Sitasutone nabeliwatsa-shogi; Otre Jaitovalte hessami-ettogi useuus sufat. Eika, hakkit garuketsi.GÇ¥
-Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka
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Fyt 284
The Stone Cutters Guild Requiem Eternal
18
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:10:16 -
[93] - Quote
Neph wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but once tethering tech has been fully implemented, will you not be able to use even medium citadels to protect supercaps? While you are still in them, yes (assuming CCP ever adds antibumping). You will not however be able to leave it unless you have an XL. |

Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
71
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 16:10:30 -
[94] - Quote
Neph wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but once tethering tech has been fully implemented, will you not be able to use even medium citadels to protect supercaps? I believe you are correct - though he did already address that by stating that you can still be bumped out of tethering range. Not sure if that is true or not, but if it is true then it isn't a very good option for a super-pilot. v0v |

Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
71
|
Posted - 2016.06.23 16:30:09 -
[95] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:You are the dumbest person in this entire thread. Takes one to know one :) Excellent comeback. I haven't heard that one since I was about 12 years old...and it was pretty lame even then.
Incidentally, if you want your astrahus to have any defenses....you have to FIT IT....
Seriously...you guys don't even put a single module or rig on your Citadels and you complain about them not defending themselves???
https://zkillboard.com/kill/54543084/ |

Dartgnan
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha TOGETHER WE STAND
10
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:37:19 -
[96] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Excellent comeback. I haven't heard that one since I was about 12 years old...
oh you mean last month ?
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Incidentally, if you want your astrahus to have any defenses....you have to FIT IT.... Seriously...you guys don't even put a single module or rig on your Citadels and you complain about them not defending themselves??? https://zkillboard.com/kill/54543084/
Well now that i have read about you i would not expect to know about a thing before you talk so knowledgeable about it, so let me humbly tell to the expert : you cannot fit a citadel during the initial vulnerability window or when it takes damage. |

Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
72
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:41:03 -
[97] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:Well now that i have read about you i would not expect to know about a thing before you talk so knowledgeable about it, so let me humbly tell to the expert : you cannot fit a citadel during the initial vulnerability window or when it takes damage. I don't particularly care tbh - just found it amusing. |

Dark Apprentice
Home of the brave
7
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:46:57 -
[98] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Incidentally, if you want your astrahus to have any defenses....you have to FIT IT.... Seriously...you guys don't even put a single module or rig on your Citadels and you complain about them not defending themselves??? https://zkillboard.com/kill/54543084/ Well now that i have read about you i would not expect to know about a thing before you talk so knowledgeable about it, so let me humbly tell to the expert : you cannot fit a citadel during the initial vulnerability window or when it takes damage.
No mate you do not understand : all the citadels destroyed were not fitted because all the owners were simply too idiots, while this guy comes now and enlightens us all.
I am very amused how he proves to be an idiot with each one of his posts and he still does not realize how lame he is and continues to do it... |

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14227
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:49:43 -
[99] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:
Well now that i have read about you i would not expect to know about a thing before you talk so knowledgeable about it, so let me humbly tell to the expert : you cannot fit a citadel during the initial vulnerability window or when it takes damage.
So your group or someone in it planted a medium citadel in a wormhole without being able to defend it? When my corp planted our 1st Astrahus we made sure we had a bunch of hard core friendly space mofos with us just in case.
Makes you stance in this tread make sense though. Those who can, do, while those who can't make forum posts complaining about those who could... |

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
512
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:55:40 -
[100] - Quote
Regarding citadel combat capabilities:
All sizes are monsters against capital ships, even mediums. (Although obviously mediums chew through capitals much more slowly than extra-larges.) If any attacker goes against a citadel with capital ships, they are almost guaranteed to lose more in ISK than the defenders.
Against subcaps, a lone medium citadel is about as good or slightly better than a lone dread. They both cost about the same, so that seems reasonable. (In fact before inflation hit citadel construction materials, they were quite a bit less expensive than the dreads they have similar capabilities of.) It's just that lone dreads are unable to break multiple subcap logi, just like citadels are unable to break multiple subcap logi. The problem isn't the capabilities dreads or citadels have against subcaps - it's the strength of subcap logi. CCP has fixed logi issues in capitals via the FAX and triage changes, in the AT by banning more than one logi, but they need to address subcap logi too IMO.
Large and extra-large citadels are better against subcaps than mediums obviously, but again are unable to do much against a solid logi wing.
If an attacker brings subcap logi, all citadel defenders need a mandatory support fleet.
Citadels are new - CCP has been focusing on defect fixes so far. Their balance pass hasn't come yet. CCP may very well decide to increase anti-subcap application. It's too early to start crying about their combat capability or lack thereof.
Whether citadels are appropriate replacements for POSes, Outposts, NPC stations and the like - not yet, not entirely. As CCP has said, those things will come "over time."
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
74
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Posted - 2016.06.23 16:58:17 -
[101] - Quote
Dark Apprentice wrote:No mate you do not understand : all the citadels destroyed were not fitted because all the owners were simply too idiots, while this guy comes now and enlightens us all.
I am very amused how he proves to be an idiot with each one of his posts and he still does not realize how lame he is and continues to do it... Had you bothered to read my posts you would know by now that I quoted the *full* quote from the dev post and confirmed that CCP never promised you *anything* about the combat effectiveness of Citadels *at all*.
Sadly you are all too busy calling me names to actually care about the topic. Once again proving that you are, you guessed it, idiots. |

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
84
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Posted - 2016.06.23 18:13:07 -
[102] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:https://zkillboard.com/system/30000250/ship/35833/
Looks pretty exciting to me. Our Fortizar in P3EN-E gets about 10 kills a day; mostly solo.
Waving around how good is a citadel in a system called "pene" .... I thought it was a joke post.
Link to the translation of that word in Google translator: https://translate.google.it/?hl=it#it/en/pene
Now I suspect that the name of that system was some Dev joke.  |

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1135
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Posted - 2016.06.23 21:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Quote:New structure hulls are going to replace Starbases, Outposts and Deployables over time (emphasis mine.) This time has not yet arrived. Wait. What? Are you telling us, that we will eventually get modular POSes an not stationary bait ships with modules?
Remove insurance.
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
371
|
Posted - 2016.06.24 21:09:09 -
[104] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Quote:New structure hulls are going to replace Starbases, Outposts and Deployables over time (emphasis mine.) This time has not yet arrived. In the meantime, please feel most welcome to construct a player-owned-starbase our outpost if they fit your needs better. I'd like to ask you to rethink your guys' decision to make capitals ECM immune. I do believe it was stated before that they weren't going to be immune anymore, and if it was this is obviously going against what was promised.
But more than that, ECM is a major defense that citadels have against offending ships, even capitals (or they used to be when you could use ECM). I permajammed a nag that was trying to assault my astrahus, up until they refit for sensor boosters and brought in an opposing fleet.
Speaking of fleets, mediums are unable to contend. The application of the missiles is horrible. Entire fighter squads get wiped out in seconds when even a small enemy fleet assigns their drones to kill them. Unless you guys are planning on super buffing citadels, then they are just not strong enough to deal with how people wage war.
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
319
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:12:46 -
[105] - Quote
I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE!
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
275
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:25:40 -
[106] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE!
Tempelman N wrote: NO NOT BELIVEING!
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
515
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 20:40:01 -
[107] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I permajammed a nag that was trying to assault my astrahus, up until they refit for sensor boosters and brought in an opposing fleet.
How was your Astrahus fit? In the 30 minutes it takes to reinforce one, you should have been able to do enough damage to a seiged dread to kill it.
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
88
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Posted - 2016.06.25 21:13:39 -
[108] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I permajammed a nag that was trying to assault my astrahus, up until they refit for sensor boosters and brought in an opposing fleet. How was your Astrahus fit? In the 30 minutes it takes to reinforce one, you should have been able to do enough damage to a seiged dread to kill it. [sarcasm] Haven't you been paying attention? These people have done EXTENSIVE TESTING and PROVED 100% that the astrahus could not possibly hurt a fly, let alone a dread. No matter what fitting is used, they are weaker than a small POS. [/sarcasm]
Seriously though - they probably had it full e-war fit, which would be just neuts in the high slots. Just a guess though |

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
319
|
Posted - 2016.06.25 23:34:49 -
[109] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate. Mind if I ask, "Huh?" Oh, by the way, "the literate" is plural. The literate are.... "A literate" is singular. A literate is.... When you correct someone's English do it properly.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
|

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
515
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 03:51:37 -
[110] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate. Mind if I ask, "Huh?" Oh, by the way, "the literate" is plural. The literate are.... "A literate" is singular. A literate is.... When you correct someone's English do it properly. I suspect it's shortened from "the literate person is..." as opposed to "the literate people are..." or "the literates are..." So singular instead of plural seems more correct to me. YMMV.
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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
373
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 05:00:50 -
[111] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I permajammed a nag that was trying to assault my astrahus, up until they refit for sensor boosters and brought in an opposing fleet. How was your Astrahus fit? In the 30 minutes it takes to reinforce one, you should have been able to do enough damage to a seiged dread to kill it. Two subcap missiles, two heavy neuts, four ECM modules, damage and powergrid/capacitor. With the supporting fleet my fighters couldn't stay out long enough, and the missiles were being repped through. They could field more caps too, and were seen moving FAX machines in so they could presumably field those, but they were struggling against the dps cap so they chose to bring a carrier instead, the fighters of which I kept killing.
The defense timer was just about to tick over about an hour and fifteen minutes after they started since they were struggling to keep the dread locked and I was forcing the rest of what they had off, but then they brought in some friends and that was that. |

Dartgnan
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha TOGETHER WE STAND
17
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Posted - 2016.06.26 06:27:23 -
[112] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: [sarcasm] Haven't you been paying attention? These people have done EXTENSIVE TESTING and PROVED 100% that the astrahus could not possibly hurt a fly, let alone a dread. No matter what fitting is used, they are weaker than a small POS. [/sarcasm]
Actually you are the one not paying attention, or having a VERY short memory ( no surprises here ). It was mentioned several times that the citadels are very weak against SUB-CAPITALS, while the anti-cap weapons are very efficient.
|

Dark Apprentice
Home of the brave
12
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Posted - 2016.06.26 06:32:14 -
[113] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote: [sarcasm] Haven't you been paying attention? These people have done EXTENSIVE TESTING and PROVED 100% that the astrahus could not possibly hurt a fly, let alone a dread. No matter what fitting is used, they are weaker than a small POS. [/sarcasm]
Actually you are the one not paying attention, or having a VERY short memory ( no surprises here ). It was mentioned several times that the citadels are very weak against SUB-CAPITALS, while the anti-cap weapons are very efficient.
Don't bother mate. We are the "idiots", and he is "the one". He can change everything just by looking at it. |

Dartgnan
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha TOGETHER WE STAND
17
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Posted - 2016.06.26 06:35:31 -
[114] - Quote
Dark Apprentice wrote:Don't bother mate. We are the "idiots", and he is "the one". He can change everything just by looking at it.
Yeah no wonder the devs do not watch these threads. Every time a legitimate problem is raised, one of these guys starts ranting and brings everything to their kindergarten level. |

John Volan
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 07:50:58 -
[115] - Quote
Dartgnan wrote:Dark Apprentice wrote:Don't bother mate. We are the "idiots", and he is "the one". He can change everything just by looking at it. Yeah no wonder the devs do not watch these threads. Every time a legitimate problem is raised, one of these guys starts ranting and brings everything to their kindergarten level. Never argue with idiots, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Personally I like the changes because they're broad and sweeping and shake things up, good or bad. As someone who's just come back to the game it makes it exciting to see where it goes from here. Also, cut the Devs some slack, balancing an mmo is incredibly hard at any time but even more so for an established ecosystem like Eve. |

Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 16:26:34 -
[116] - Quote
What "legitimate problem" was raised again?
That the devs gave you exactly 100% what they promised with Citadels?
The *only* problems raised in this thread are that you guys are greedy, entitled idiots who *expected* a lot of things that *were never even hinted at*.
You can persist in calling me names and sticking your heads in the sand - but it doesn't make you any less wrong. |

Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 16:28:29 -
[117] - Quote
As far as the dev's not watching these threads, I turn your attention to *page 1*:
CCP Darwin wrote:Quote:New structure hulls are going to replace Starbases, Outposts and Deployables over time (emphasis mine.) This time has not yet arrived. In the meantime, please feel most welcome to construct a player-owned-starbase our outpost if they fit your needs better.
Where the dev in fact told you exactly what I have been telling you, albeit in a nicer, more polite/professional way.
I presume the devs are discouraged from insulting their customers - even when the customers are as deserving of insults as you lot. |

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1852
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 17:22:11 -
[118] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Soldarius wrote:https://zkillboard.com/system/30000250/ship/35833/
Looks pretty exciting to me. Our Fortizar in P3EN-E gets about 10 kills a day; mostly solo. Oh look, a Null Citadel abusing drag bubbles near a gate is getting frigate kills, and a lone cruiser kill...... Obviously Citadels are balanced in all areas of space. Really? That's the best argument you can come up with when using drag bubbles onto a citadel because CCP didn't think about that abuse of the system that it's a fair representation of how a Citadel can actually defend itself or act as a force multiplier against an attack..... Especially since we've already said Citadels in Null are in a better state than Citadels elsewhere, because they get better defence modules in Null like AOE weapons such as bomb launchers, a smart bomb type weapon, and the XL gets a doomsday. Totally applies to Citadels elsewhere. Thanks for utterly making my point though when you resort to such a weak argument. Jack Hayson wrote:Ah ok, so it's just some left over salt from the industry revamp and has actually nothing to do with citadels. Was already starting to wonder if I had missed something in the patch notes...  Try actually reading the actual players reply to you, not the forum alt who is just trolling and abusing everyone.
I think that pretty much nailed it... Re-quoted as it was such an awesome retort !!!!
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
321
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 18:10:43 -
[119] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:I BELIEVE! I BELIEVE! When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate. Mind if I ask, "Huh?" Oh, by the way, "the literate" is plural. The literate are.... "A literate" is singular. A literate is.... When you correct someone's English do it properly. I suspect it's shortened from "the literate person is..." as opposed to "the literate people are..." or "the literates are..." So singular instead of plural seems more correct to me. YMMV. LOL, if we got to do English the way it "seems" then we'd all have passed with A+ . Fortunately for civilization, such is not the case. Intention has nothing to do with it. What winds up in print is all there is. Take it from an editor.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
516
|
Posted - 2016.06.26 19:15:31 -
[120] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:Eli Stan wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:I permajammed a nag that was trying to assault my astrahus, up until they refit for sensor boosters and brought in an opposing fleet. How was your Astrahus fit? In the 30 minutes it takes to reinforce one, you should have been able to do enough damage to a seiged dread to kill it. Two subcap missiles, two heavy neuts, four ECM modules, damage and powergrid/capacitor. With the supporting fleet my fighters couldn't stay out long enough, and the missiles were being repped through. They could field more caps too, and were seen moving FAX machines in so they could presumably field those, but they were struggling against the dps cap so they chose to bring a carrier instead, the fighters of which I kept killing. The defense timer was just about to tick over about an hour and fifteen minutes after they started since they were struggling to keep the dread locked and I was forcing the rest of what they had off, but then they brought in some friends and that was that. Ah, yeah, that sort of fit isn't going to do much at all against any committed attacker, I think. The subcap missile launchers are trash against subcaps, doing only about as much damage as one or two battleships which can easily be countered by a few logi, and obviously trash against dreads like the Nag you were fighting. The ECM mods do well to remove four hostile ships from the fight, but that's only temporary unlike actually destroying ships. Finally, heavy neuts have a decent cycle time but take several cycles to cap out anything.
Instead, for your next Astrahus try two anti-capital launchers (they would have been able to kill that Nag), an XL neut, and a bomb launcher. For the mids, at least one scram, one web, and one TP - for the final mid you can do either another TP or another web. With web and TP, the anti-cap launchers actually do as much damage against subcaps as the anti-subcap launchers. You'll still lose the Astrahus to a subcap fleet with logi support without getting any kills if you're on your own, but you'll take out enough caps sent against you to at least make your kb not-red if they go that route.
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