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OkarasRule
All Your Belt's Belong To Us
32
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Posted - 2016.06.25 13:32:21 -
[1] - Quote
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/valve-sued-for-promoting-illegal-gambling-in-counter-strike-global-offensive-853288
Iv felt that in game sites that let you gamble at a none age verified style along with encouragements to gamble such as promo codes and the way everything is open to people with just simplistic methods might be a bad thing. Turns out someone else thought this and is going after valve for the quite honestly same reason.
Point brought up: Its in game money not rl money
My answer: People blow money on plex to get isk to sink into the site. untold amounts of isk will eventually become RMT money once the guy holding it all eventually gets board of being the richest "look at somablink"
Point Brought Up: Its only ISK not $ or -ú
My answer: Your right but it may foster the mentality that gambling is ok and a way to spend your money. A player who wins all the time in a eve gambling site might eventually think he/she can win on a rl gambling site. This may get people who are underage gambling with money that they either gotten off their parents or saved up eventually creating a mental addiction to gambling at a young age.
Many people like these sites a little the same to the csgo players like their gambling sites and in my honest opinion their isn't a difference between each site as they both promote gambling and they are both super easy to get into/addicted to. Its a thing to put in your mind in relations to the way they can be seen and the way that ccp doing nothing to prevent the sites could possibly be seen as encouraging the sites existence and assisting in their survival.
Disclaimer. I used iwantisk as a example gambling site as it is the most obvious and most well known. I fully expect the trolls to feast on this as that is what trolls do I am personally against gambling as it destroys lives and see its inclusion in eve as a black mark against the game |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
521
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Posted - 2016.06.25 14:20:47 -
[2] - Quote
Better you learn it in a game that fortuna is a ***** and you can lose lot's of stuff with gambling than in an Real life casino. And Lot's of people did just that.
Gambling in whatever form seems to be a desire of people in most societys, best example is england where betting on allmost everything is kind of a national sport.
Beside that: There is something called "personal responsibility". Some legal limits, why not. But what i do with my (ingame-) money is primary my own business. |
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
1178
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Posted - 2016.06.25 15:01:17 -
[3] - Quote
I see a whole lot of "people aren't responsible for their own actions" in the OP.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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OkarasRule
All Your Belt's Belong To Us
35
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Posted - 2016.06.25 15:26:58 -
[4] - Quote
young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve and to me they aint really responsible enough to know what they are doing is possibly bad for themselves. Im not by any stretch of my motivations telling people that they need to do this or telling people what they are supposed to do in life as that literally is none of my business and I am not at liberty to dictate what people should or shouldn't do. Just stating that exposure to things like gambling/drinking/violence makes the person see it as the norm and could possibly damage them in the long term.
People are responsible for their own actions but most people are very easy to control |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8162
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Posted - 2016.06.25 15:30:43 -
[5] - Quote
OkarasRule wrote:young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve
A lot of players get high, in EVE and other games.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
20
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Posted - 2016.06.25 16:23:23 -
[6] - Quote
OkarasRule wrote:young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve and to me they aint really responsible enough to know what they are doing is possibly bad for themselves. Im not by any stretch of my motivations telling people that they need to do this or telling people what they are supposed to do in life as that literally is none of my business and I am not at liberty to dictate what people should or shouldn't do. Just stating that exposure to things like gambling/drinking/violence makes the person see it as the norm and could possibly damage them in the long term.
People are responsible for their own actions but most people are very easy to control
1) 16 year olds are treated lika adults in most countries. For a reason. On the other hand some 30 year olds behave like kids, and should not have voting rights, but there is nothing you can do about that. 2) Idk about you, but I knew enough about drugs, gambling and violence (aka being a total a**) to not do this when I was, like, 13. 3) most eve players are much older, it's not COD 4) yes people are easy to control, but still responsible for their own actions. Lack of knowledge and stupidity is not an excuse. 5) If you fall for gambling tricks (4'th grade math to calculate how much you will lose on average) it's your fault. Unless you are in kindergarten, but than you should have a parent beside you while browsing the internet and no access to EVE api/ password in the first place. |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
102
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Posted - 2016.06.25 18:29:53 -
[7] - Quote
Trading things in eve for RL money is illegal. So CCP is out of it.
And CCP doesn't get a share of IwantISKs income so they are not liable. |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
134
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Posted - 2016.06.25 18:40:39 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:These can be traded outside the game for cash.
We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference. |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
42
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Posted - 2016.06.25 18:41:33 -
[9] - Quote
I wonder how long it takes before he brings in Floridian law...
Also, I'd strongly advise against taking legal advice from someone who can't even spell "illegal gambling".
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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King Aires
Chicks on Speed
194
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Posted - 2016.06.25 19:09:32 -
[10] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:Quote:These can be traded outside the game for cash. We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.
The hell you can't
ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$)
And the list goes on and on.
Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly. |
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ube smoked
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.06.25 19:47:14 -
[11] - Quote
I hope steam dies. |
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
319
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Posted - 2016.06.25 19:58:47 -
[12] - Quote
Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.
So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
275
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:16:31 -
[13] - Quote
Aaron Honk wrote:We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference. There is no such law. There are no legal repercussions for RMT.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
134
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:24:28 -
[14] - Quote
ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$) Have no value outside of the game ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$) Have value outside the game but this only happen once a year, so it's a rare case ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$) Have no value outside of the game
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
88
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:34:14 -
[15] - Quote
OkarasRule wrote:Point brought up: Its in game money not rl money
OkarasRule wrote:Point Brought Up: Its only ISK not $ or -ú Nobody else seems to have called you on it....but that is literally the same single point. You just worded it slightly differently so you could give a second rant as an "answer"...
As for the rest:
Iwantisk is *not* part of EVE. They are not owned, operated, or in any way affiliated with CCP. Hypothetically one could sue the people running the site, but you could not sue CCP for their actions.
You *might* have had a case with Somer Blink at one point - however CCP was called on it and pulled themselves out of the relationship (not for RL legal reasons, but they did so nonetheless) and of course now Somer is gone.
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Bishop Bob
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
12
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Posted - 2016.06.25 20:51:02 -
[16] - Quote
I have a site that people place bets on cars racing. Some of the cars are Fords.
Do you really think Ford can be sued for supporting gambling? |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
134
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Posted - 2016.06.25 21:05:59 -
[17] - Quote
Bishop Bob wrote:I have a site that people place bets on cars racing. Some of the cars are Fords.
Do you really think Ford can be sued for supporting gambling?
In Valve case, they are accused to have helped the gambling websites to boost their own sales |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1952
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Posted - 2016.06.25 21:25:42 -
[18] - Quote
Blade Darth wrote:1) 16 year olds are treated lika adults in most countries. .... Eh, no. In most countries the age to legally be considered an adult is 18. In most cases that is also the age at which one is permitted to gamble. If at all legal that is.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26245
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Posted - 2016.06.25 22:02:41 -
[19] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.
So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past. They should have banged him up for assault with a deadly weapon. If our judges in the UK are anything to go by I'd be surprised if the Judge in question even knew what pixels were
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
1954
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Posted - 2016.06.25 22:10:18 -
[20] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.
So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past. They should have banged him up for assault with a deadly weapon. If our judges in the UK are anything to go by I'd be surprised if the Judge in question even knew what pixels were The kid that actualy held the knife was judged and sentenced for assault. As should. For the others, especially the one 'only' waiting in-game to snatch the (forced) drop, theft had to be proven. Hence the judges decision.
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Test Alliance Please Ignore
1191
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Posted - 2016.06.25 23:05:57 -
[21] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:Quote:These can be traded outside the game for cash. We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference. The hell you can't ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$) And the list goes on and on. Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly.
CCP cracks down on people trading ingame assets for RL cash though. They also do not provide a means of turning ISK into cash or credit.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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King Aires
Chicks on Speed
194
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Posted - 2016.06.26 02:24:20 -
[22] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:King Aires wrote:Aaron Honk wrote:Quote:These can be traded outside the game for cash. We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference. The hell you can't ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$) ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$) And the list goes on and on. Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly. CCP cracks down on people trading ingame assets for RL cash though. They also do not provide a means of turning ISK into cash or credit.
That is like saying the escort you went to visit didn't take your cash for sex, you just paid for her time.
Considerations for free that you otherwise would have paid cash for is no different than IRL value. |
The Judge
Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two
28
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:34:21 -
[23] - Quote
I would be incredibly surprised if there was a lawyer out there that would think it was viable to go after IWI or CCP. The only parallel you can draw between IWI and "skin betting" is the act of gambling itself. IWI don't offer you any option to cash out for real world dollars, and neither does CCP. However, steam and certain skin betting sites do offer this option in one way or another. This is where the issue of legality is, and is what the whole case against Valve rests on.
The difference here is people using skins as chips with a equitable real world dollar cash out value. Gambling away your isk (even if converted by buying plex) is not even close to being on the same level of moral or real world legality. Let's put away the pitchforks now, shall we?
Insert "why will nobody think of the children" comment here.
CSM XI Permanent Attendee
Senior Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two
@_TheJudge on Twitter | TheJudge on Tweetfleet Slack
[email protected]
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Mr Duffo
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
182
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:58:35 -
[24] - Quote
kukkahattu+ñiti
Skegg¦½ld, Skálm¦½ld, Skildir ro Klofnir!
Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
397
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Posted - 2016.06.26 07:59:16 -
[25] - Quote
I'm probably going to regret this, as this thread is in partial violation of EULA rule 22. Quoted below
Quote: 22. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited.
Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited.
However, as this is a edge case, I will keep an eye on it and watch for any issues that come up.
Please do not give me the chance to regret this decision.
~ISD Buldath
Commander
Support, Training and Resources Division
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
383
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Posted - 2016.06.26 09:05:39 -
[26] - Quote
I never understand people who say gambling destroys lives thus should be illegal. Alcohol does exact same yet thats OK. If gambling destroyed ones life then tough luck, learn from it. But why should person who gamble perhaps once a year for fun and thrills be punished for that. As for that article goes, it sounds more like angry form whiner who seeking refund for his CS:GO skins loss. |
Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
5
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Posted - 2016.06.26 10:59:18 -
[27] - Quote
I gamble extensively with ISK, and had serious RL gambling addiction before (just wrote a forum post about it actually). Yet I do not think gambling should be 'illegale'. It's my money and my foolish loss and my addiction, let it be that way. People should have freedom to ruin themselves, if it's their choice or if they are stupid enough/weak willed enough to do so.
Most of my life I have been addicted to one thing or other, or combination of things, both legal and illegal. I had some incredible highs and life ruining moments. But at the end lf the day, it was my life and my choices and my weakness and no one fault but mine when things went wrong, and it was also to my credit I sorted myself out in the end.
I have spent parts of my life in some extremely 'nanny state', and also in some pretty chilled n dodgy places. I know which one I prefer.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1409
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Posted - 2016.06.26 12:08:56 -
[28] - Quote
Demica Diaz wrote:If gambling destroyed ones life then tough luck, learn from it..
That's not how that works. There's real sensible reasons adolescents aren't allowed to drink or gamble. Gambling is a cancer, gamblers do not learn from losses, ever. Once a big sucker bet programmes you to think gambling is good you are hooked.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
5
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Posted - 2016.06.26 13:33:21 -
[29] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:[quote=Demica Diaz] Once a big sucker bet programmes you to think gambling is good you are hooked.
Like the first euphoric high from ecstasy/MDMA. It gets tatooed into your memory and you can never forget that again, and yet very hard to re-experience again.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3880
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Posted - 2016.06.26 20:32:41 -
[30] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:The kid that actualy held the knife was judged and sentenced for assault. As should. For the others, especially the one 'only' waiting in-game to snatch the (forced) drop, theft had to be proven. Hence the judges decision. They could not get him for conspiracy to commit assault?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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