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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew
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Posted - 2007.03.07 23:17:00 -
[1]
I keep seeing threads pop up with people asking exactly how these work, so I figured I'd make a post describing how they work and how stats and bonuses are applied.
The damps affects targeting range, and scan resolution. The targeting range is straight forward, but scan resolution vs targeting speed is not a linear formula. This means a 50% reduction in scan res does not equate to a 50% reduction in targeting speed. There are other threads that go into the targeting speed formula, I will not mention it any further here.
Sensor dampener modules themselves come with base modifiers of -35% to -48%. There are a few things that can boost this stat: Skills: Signal Suppression. Requires Sensor Linking L4, and makes the dampeners 5% more effective per level. Ships: Gallente in particular. The Maulus, Celestis, Lachesis, and Arazu all have a 5% per level bonus on the base ship skill (Gallente Frigate / Gallente Cruiser). Rigs: Inverted Signal Field Projector. The Tech1 version gives +10% efficiency per rig, while the Tech2 version gives +15%. Due to calibration requirements, it is impossible to fit more than 2 Tech1 rigs on any single ship, or more than 1 Tech2 rig. Ganglinks: Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority. The patch notes for Revelations indicate this module boosts the effectivness of all electronic warfare modules, not just ECM target jammers. I have not had a chance to test this personally.
Now that we've identified what can boost the strengh of dampeners, how do we calculate that boost? This is done in a similar to how shield resistance or stasis webifiers are stacked; you multiply the inverses. This is done because with these types of things, you can never get higher than 100%.
Lets take an example, and say you are using a Tech2 dampener with your signal suppression skill at level 4. The dampener itself has a stat of -48%, and the skill boosts its strength by 20%. You then multiply the inverse of these two, and take the inverse of the result like so:
1 - 0.48 = 0.52 1 - 0.20 = 0.80 0.52 * 0.80 = 0.416 1 - 0.416 = 0.584
So your -48% dampener with a 20% boost has an effective strength of -58.4%.
Currently no bonus sources have stacking penalty with each other, so if you added a rig on top of that, you would apply a 10% bonus to -58.4% in the same manner.
When stacking dampeners, you do the same method of multiplying the inverses. The standard stacking penalty does apply when more than one dampener is active on a single target. The stacking penalty is multiplied by the listed stat for the module, so in our above example if we used 2 dampeners with a -58.4% modifier, the second dampener would be multiplied in with a strengh of (-58.4% * 86.91%) = -50.76% (I'm rounding a little here so the end result wont be exact). Multiplying the effects of these two dampeners together we get:
1 - 0.584 = 0.416 1 - 0.5076 = 0.4924 0.416 * 0.4924 = 0.2048 1 - 0.2048 = 0.7952
For a combined effect of -79.52%.
Sensor Boosters have the opposite effect of dampeners, and using multiple boosters are subject to stacking penalty, however they are penalized in 2 seperate stacks. Using 1 sensor dampener and 1 sensor booster, they will both be 100% effective. Using 1 sensor dampener and 2 sensor boosters, the 2nd sensor booster will get penalized.
I've made a web page with a nice little calculator for this all including stacking penalties and a comparison table of boosters vs dampeners available here: Sensor Dampener Calculator
I've done my best to ensure it's accuracy, and all numbers used in the calculator reflect in game measurements I have taken myself. It uses the HTTP GET method so bookmarks/posted URLS with specific configs should maintain the config. If you find any errors please let me know (math/screenshots showing a descrepancy would be preferred). I'm an engineer, not an artist, so I'm not opposed to style/readability suggestions either
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.03.07 23:47:00 -
[2]
I find an easier way to work out bonuses to percentages (the way it's done in Eve) is it's 20% bonus of the remaining amount. So
100 - 48 = 52. (To find out how much is left) 52 * 0.2 = 10.4. (To find out the bonus% of what is left) 48 + 10.4 = 58.4% (To find out what the bonus% is added on)
Same result, and probably the same maths just said differently, but for me it makes it easier to visualise. Might work the same for others.
Thanks for the info though! -J --------------------------------- "He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson
Balanced != Nerfed |
Kulmid
Bringers of Misfortune
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Posted - 2007.03.07 23:48:00 -
[3]
very nice tool you've got there, I like it. Something I've been doing on my own for a long time, this would have saved many hours of math.
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Antebellum
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Posted - 2007.03.14 09:18:00 -
[4]
How about the falloff? What does optimal + falloff mean for damps?
Also, the Particle Dispersion Projection rig applies to dampenign optimal. So let's say I have a celestis with 3 x tech 1 pdp rigs, t2 damps and max skills. My optimal would be 77.760km and my falloff 90km, and each damp would give 68.8% dampening.
What would happen if I damp someone at optimal + falloff (167.760km)? Is it chance based, or does the dampening percentage decrease?
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MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.03.14 12:47:00 -
[5]
Very nice tool. thanks alot Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow |
MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.03.14 12:49:00 -
[6]
Oh and I notced ont he bottom part it stands if you use one dampener on a ship with max skill then you need 6 SB to nullify the effect. Is this really correct? Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow |
dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.03.14 13:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: MrRookie Oh and I notced ont he bottom part it stands if you use one dampener on a ship with max skill then you need 6 SB to nullify the effect. Is this really correct?
That's depending on rigs.
With max skills but no rigs, one dampener is overcome with 4 boosters (you actually end up with + 11% to lockrange from that).
But if the sensor dampener is fully fitted with rigs as well, you can not overcome the effect of one dampener regardless of ammount of boosters.
(this is assuming T2/meta boosters/dampeners, no officer stuff)
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Mikojo
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.03.14 20:54:00 -
[8]
So..
A gallente recon with signal supression 5, 2x t1 damp rigs, and 4 t2 damps can damp the base targeting range of a raven down to just over 3km.
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SauronTheMage
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.14 22:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SauronTheMage on 14/03/2007 22:55:02 This calculation doesn't sound right. Since you are adding 5% strength per lvl to the damp, you would be calculating it on the mod itself.
48% base x 20% bonus (lvl 4) = 48 x 1.2 = 57.6% on the module.
You only use reverse calculations on things such as shield / armour hardeners, since running 2 or more hardeners stack based on the amount of resistances left. For the individual modules themself though, the bonuses are calculated on the module.
So for example, lets use the T2 shield resistance amplifier (passive).
T2 module is 37.5% resistance base. You have compensation lvl 4, which gives you 20% boost on passive resists...
37.5% x 20% = 37.5 x 1.2 = 45%
I know these are correct because I have EM compensation lvl 4, and my T2 shield amp gives me a 45% resistance bonus. I have also used this for calcuating shield tanking, and it works as noted.
So for the damps, using lvl 4 strength bonus, gallente ship w/ lvl 5, and 2 x 10% rigs...
48% (base) x 20% (lvl 4 damp strength) x 25% (ship lvl 5) x 10% (rig 1) x 10% (rig 2) = 48 x 1.2 x 1.25 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 87.12%
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.14 23:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: SauronTheMage This calculation doesn't sound right.
Exept he is right and you are wrong. His numbers is what you get in reality. Yours aren't. Try something out before calling it wrong.
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SauronTheMage
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.14 23:44:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: SauronTheMage This calculation doesn't sound right.
Exept he is right and you are wrong. His numbers is what you get in reality. Yours aren't. Try something out before calling it wrong.
Heh, why not take your head out of your.... and respond in a better way then that. I said it "sounded" wrong, not that he's full of bull...
If this particular module runs off a different formula them most of the other modules out there, such as the ones in my example, then just say that. No need to make it personal. :)
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.03.15 00:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SauronTheMage If this particular module runs off a different formula them most of the other modules out there, such as the ones in my example, then just say that. No need to make it personal. :)
Actually most 'old' things works the way the dampeners does, while 'new' things tend to work the way passive resistance do.
Of course there are the exception that proves the rule, like the skill for MWD speed that has been in since the beginning but work like the resistance.
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.15 00:21:00 -
[13]
The problem is that if everyone just writes what he *thinks* it is without testing it beforehand you get lots of contradicting information or in short: no information because you do not know what is correct without testing it yourself.
Because of this if I see someone writing crap because he is too lazy to test it beforehand I get annoyed Not that I haven't done it ocassionally myself, that is.. *cough*
And, as the OP said, the reason it works this way is to avoid -100% effects, which would be possible if it would be calculated your way. Not with the current equipment, but what about t3+?
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2007.03.15 00:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mikojo So..
A gallente recon with signal supression 5, 2x t1 damp rigs, and 4 t2 damps can damp the base targeting range of a raven down to just over 3km.
Phased Muon damp just as well, for far less cap. Of course, realistically it'd be better to have 2/3 damps against one ship, but four is always nice for multiple targets.
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