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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
86
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Posted - 2016.07.19 05:33:31 -
[1] - Quote
Need to think of PHP as Java's overlord and master when it comes to anything having to do with the web and then things start falling in to place
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
86
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Posted - 2016.07.19 06:38:30 -
[2] - Quote
Kind of interest trivia through Java and PHP both where just starting in the 94-95 time frame but the Java web site probably was already using PHP to run the web site while it was a while before Java could be call 'Internet' ready with things like Tomcat etc.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
86
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Posted - 2016.07.19 14:38:06 -
[3] - Quote
But Steve some people like slow overly engineered solutions to their problems
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
86
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Posted - 2016.07.19 19:56:16 -
[4] - Quote
Yep PHP is just a filter Understand I'm not really into front-end user web design myself so this will probably be missing some things but should cover most of the things it does while being 'just a filter'
- Browser connect to URL and web server hands over serialize string of headers, data, and other misc stuff as a request to PHP.
- PHP tries to add a little order and break things up into actual useful information before starts up a front end controller(class) to continue on with processing the request.
- The front end controller creates a request object(class) that it uses to exam URL to determine which of possible hundreds, but usually only a few dozen other back end controllers(also classes) that have been registered with it should be used to handle the request.
- It pass off the request object to the back end where the request is usually farther processed to determine what other resources are need and do 'simple' things like connect to a database instance (local or remotely) to get data domain related objects need to 'filter' the request.
- The back end controller than start assembling a response object(class) which may require on the fly generating things like catcha graphic if the request is for a page with a web form, collect other resources as need to fulfill the request, pass over part or all of the domain data to a templating system(class) to plug the data into a template. After managing the one to possible dozens of part need for the request it pass back the response object to the front end
- the front end controller may do some additional processing before sending the simple 'filtered' stuff back to the web server having serialize all the headers into a nuch simpler form that the web server can understand.
- the web server now has the easy job of bit banging back to the browser.
Of course it does all those things and sometimes more usually in the time span of a couple hundred milliseconds or less without the benefit of having been pre-processed before hand for several seconds (or minutes) into immediate code so it try to keep up
BTW that does look like a cool project you were working on and I hope it takes off for you.
Here's a bit dated post I found comparing java vs something else for web apps you might find interesting. The answer by guy that went from Java to Python is really good I think. IMHO he'd been even better served by switching to PHP but it was still an improvement
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
88
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Posted - 2016.07.20 15:38:22 -
[5] - Quote
So I'll say I did kind of miss what you were asking but I think I still indirectly answered it in part anyway but I'll try doing a better job here.
Quote:Perhaps mistakenly I'm viewing web-tier scripting languages to be limited to a streamed pipe environment where they get an inputstream (port 80) that they can apply complex filtering against to produce an output stream. Kind of. PHP does do much like a lot of Unix/Linux view the outside world as just a bunch of data stream the thing it doesn't just work with the ones it's give it actual spends more time making it own to DBs and other services then dealing with the original input stream. The input is just a request for something usually by way of a simple message of some form. That message take many forms from the URL being requested to form data sent in the POST or GET. Even the fact that it's a POST or a GET can be view as part of the message as well. In most cases this is the easy part figuring out what it is being asked for. How it fulfills the request is by far the most complex thing it does. Outputting the response is likewise usually a very minor part of what it does.
Quote: I assume they are limited to a single thread, which they do not own and must do everything serial as they pipe from filter to filter. They are limited, static as it were to responding only to the stream. sometimes. Some web server do use thread per connection and have PHP running within a single thread they start it in, others use a multiple thread per request model or in other ways use it with them that's why PHP has both thread safe and non-thread save versions. There are even some web servers that can switch or use a hybrid model and PHP can be used with them as well. PHP also has CLI version for non-web related stuff and testing and newer versions of PHP can be it's own web server as well for light weight local testing when even a local web server is just to much overhead. PHP even has everything it needs to make a full desktop application for that matter though most of the extensions aren't that well maintained as most people choose to view PHP through the very narrow view as just something you use to do web pages. My own projects Yapeal and Yapeal-ng are very atypical uses of PHP as a server side back end service / whatever you want to call it. Using it like this is becoming more common as site developers are pushing up against the limits of the only able to do stuff while the user is connected to web server. They have to choose between writing something in another language like Python, Java, or something else that has usually been used here or as more and more are doing just use PHP instead and be able to share their code base between both parts of what they are doing.
Personally right from the start I've seen PHP as a great general language that could replace all the nasty Perl and Bash scripting you usually see running around on Linux machines. A lot of people have gone with Python for these things now which is an improvement I agree but I feel that PHP development by focusing so much on the web missing have as much impact as it could have had as a more general cross-platform scripting/ system language. One of the reason I really love PHP is that it's usually installed on any Linux machine by default and on Windows its one short download, unzip, and maybe add a couple things to your path and your done. Installing Bash or Python or even Java for write new code is a lot harder to get setup.
I'll kind try summing up the middle part as this is already getting to be a long post again. Does PHP under stall RPC and all the other stuff? yes Anything that has been done especially in any way remotely web related PHP has built in or an extension you can use. Just taking a quick look at the RabbitMQ web site it looks like there are more tools to work with it in PHP than several of the other listed languages.
Quote:Can a PHP page, monitor for events and update with no other stream activity tickling the input stream pipe? I assume this might be were you utilize the likes for Cron jobs? Here I believe you are miss under stand the nature of all web -centric/mobile application development which is what most things are about any more not just for PHP but for most other languages used as well.Maybe you do know it as well but just aren't use to thinking about it since that wasn't part of what you have done. Most of the app is on the client side in their phones, pads or other mobile device as a actual app they download or through their browser where the web pages are designed to make it feel like they installed something. Which in many ways they might have since everything is being done through JS which makes the request back in forth to the server without any page loads. Notice that even though things are designed to make it seem like there's a constant connection between the client and site which has state in actually it's all over a stateless on and off connection where each connection might not even be with the same server each time but through a lot of really interesting 'magic' is made to seem like it is. Now like I said you probably know most of this but the part you are missing is the web server is not in control and really has no way to 'push' anything to the client and in most cases firewalls etc actively try to keep you from doing so. The client has to basically poll for updates and then the site can let it know about anything new but only if the client knows to ask for it. Just by the nature of how it all work there's no not anything really sitting around to receive push info from what you are doing. PHP or anything else can do the same thing the client does and poll your service but push is not something that is really useful since it's only active for a couple seconds at a time at most. Now something like Yapeal-ngcould but its easy just to use pull there as well.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
88
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Posted - 2016.07.20 16:44:56 -
[6] - Quote
Sorry ran out of space. I need to spend more time on tweeter I guess so I can learn to be less long winded So basically what I was going to say is nothing is really around long enough for anything push related except if you set your push to act more like a client make request to other service.
Software as a service(SaaS) which I believe is what your basically talking about making sounds great but turns out to just not work well because its really trying to shoehorn an application way of doing stuff into the web and it's just not a good fit in most cases. That being said for some people which don't want to and believe they can't use SSO that is required with CREST they might very well find what you are making useful but for most anything web based with access to server side programming it will probably be less useful then a service that they run for themselves local. Now if you made something that is completely open source and PnP locally I can see a lot of people showing more interest in it but I kind of got the impress that was not what you had in mind.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
88
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Posted - 2016.07.21 04:39:51 -
[7] - Quote
Everybody likes to say PHP is dead while it continues to run over 80% of all web site including new ones What has really happened is it has become like Win PC nobody talks about it and only notice if you aren't using it like people will notice a Mac or Linux machine but ignore the dozen Win PCs in the same room.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
88
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Posted - 2016.07.22 14:09:36 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah I know sites like wikipedia, 95% of all blogging site, most E-com sites they don't have a clue how to make a web site I'm sure https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all
Now you do have sites like Facebook, Google, etc that have move part of they're ops away from PHP but they moved to compiled code to get max performance on critical stuff but every then like Facebook developed JIT and compiled version of PHP to do what they needed so they didn't totally go away even then.
Java continues to stay right about same year to year between 2-3% and for all the talk about the new languages that are suppose to be better they all have less than 1% of all sites and even lose out to .NET. What I find interesting is if you look at % of Windows servers which is at 33% they lose about half of them to other server side languages and most but not all of that is also PHP. CCP here are big Windows and Python fans but I'll bet if they did a complete survey of all their outward facing sites a noticeable % use PHP as well. Simple fact is it gets the job done and has done nothing but got better with time.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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Dragonaire
Here there be Dragons
88
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Posted - 2016.07.22 14:17:14 -
[9] - Quote
Buliki wrote:Now has somebody found a way to run PHP7 on Windows XP... ? That would be interesting Also I immediately tought about Yapeal when I read this: ;) Dragonaire wrote:But Steve some people like slow overly engineered solutions to their problems Actually since they have win32 builds of PHP 7.0 you probably can run PHP 7.0 on XP but I haven't tried it I actually have switched personally to Win10 on everything that isn't Linux which right now my only Linux machine is an old laptop I stopped using.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for the Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal PHP API Library thread.
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