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Parker Rush
For Profit Inc.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.02 01:35:37 -
[1] - Quote
Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker |
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
128
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Posted - 2016.08.02 05:25:09 -
[2] - Quote
Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker
So what happens instead....100isking? That's really going to punch a hole in the trit market. |
erg cz
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
473
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Posted - 2016.08.02 07:02:19 -
[3] - Quote
Alexi Stokov wrote:Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker So what happens instead....100isking? That's really going to punch a hole in the trit market.
Wrong. What OP suggests is time based validation. Untill OP's stuff is not sold out all new market offers for the same station (or even range) and same article will be invalid. Because OP is good.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
218
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Posted - 2016.08.02 07:30:46 -
[4] - Quote
erg cz wrote: Wrong. What OP suggests is time based validation. Untill OP's stuff is not sold out all new market offers for the same station (or even range) and same article will be invalid. Because OP is good.
Damn. I would like to have your reading skills. The words: "Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good." really stand for time based validation. And here I am thinking they are incoherent ramblie. No wonder I was always bad at interpreting poetry. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5877
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Posted - 2016.08.02 11:42:51 -
[5] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:erg cz wrote: Wrong. What OP suggests is time based validation. Untill OP's stuff is not sold out all new market offers for the same station (or even range) and same article will be invalid. Because OP is good.
Damn. I would like to have your reading skills. The words: "Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good." really stand for time based validation. And here I am thinking they are incoherent ramblie. No wonder I was always bad at interpreting poetry.
I agree. I need to learn to speak idiot, it would be a useful life skill
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415
17
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Posted - 2016.08.02 12:42:59 -
[6] - Quote
Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker
Don't play it. Rise price by thousands or millions. Then at some point the small traders will stop and only the bg will try and you will know more or less how many big fishes are out there int he market. And yes I agree, instead of having your order moving by isks, let it be more of a real market.
Also adopting stock trade practice would be great. So that you can change price let's say once a day instead of every 5 minutes.
There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
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Jozhin Z Bazhin
Legendary Purpose AL3XAND3R.
9
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Posted - 2016.08.02 13:51:28 -
[7] - Quote
erg cz wrote: Because OP is good. This is great because it is good |
Parker Rush
For Profit Inc.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.02 18:54:01 -
[8] - Quote
drape me in velvet! we march at dawn! |
Mijel Riak
Extensive Enterprises Space
58
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Posted - 2016.08.02 22:15:52 -
[9] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Sequester Risalo wrote:erg cz wrote: Wrong. What OP suggests is time based validation. Untill OP's stuff is not sold out all new market offers for the same station (or even range) and same article will be invalid. Because OP is good.
Damn. I would like to have your reading skills. The words: "Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good." really stand for time based validation. And here I am thinking they are incoherent ramblie. No wonder I was always bad at interpreting poetry. I agree. I need to learn to speak idiot, it would be a useful life skill
Oh stewardess, I speak jive
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Parker Rush
For Profit Inc.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.02 22:43:51 -
[10] - Quote
erg cz wrote:Alexi Stokov wrote:Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker So what happens instead....100isking? That's really going to punch a hole in the trit market. Wrong. What OP suggests is time based validation. Untill OP's stuff is not sold out all new market offers for the same station (or even range) and same article will be invalid. Because OP is good.
What? My stuff never runs out |
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Parker Rush
For Profit Inc.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.02 22:49:48 -
[11] - Quote
William Legrand-Marx wrote:Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker Don't play it. Rise price by thousands or millions. Then at some point the small traders will stop and only the bg will try and you will know more or less how many big fishes are out there int he market. And yes I agree, instead of having your order moving by isks, let it be more of a real market. Also adopting stock trade practice would be great. So that you can change price let's say once a day instead of every 5 minutes.
^Yes this. |
Parker Rush
For Profit Inc.
2
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Posted - 2016.08.03 02:38:15 -
[12] - Quote
I have no suggestions, no velvet... parades... fill my buy orders
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Princess Adhara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2016.08.09 02:20:48 -
[13] - Quote
Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker
I have a fix for you.
Whenever I undercut/overcut your order by 0.01 isk. You reduce/increase by 100% of market value accordingly.
Problem solved. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3901
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Posted - 2016.08.09 20:05:03 -
[14] - Quote
The only thing Ive ever thought of that would reduce 0.01 ISKing is to change what happens if two orders are at the same price. Right now, whichever order has been up the longest gets the fill. Change that to: All orders at the same price see fills at random. Now, as a trader, you can either set your price the same as the current best, to try and hold a fixed price and accepting the slower fill rate, or you can do the 0.01 ISK game and try for the entire market.
This would not get rid on the 0.01 ISK game, it just adds a new option.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5881
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Posted - 2016.08.10 13:05:36 -
[15] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The only thing Ive ever thought of that would reduce 0.01 ISKing is to change what happens if two orders are at the same price. Right now, whichever order has been up the longest gets the fill. Change that to: All orders at the same price see fills at random. Now, as a trader, you can either set your price the same as the current best, to try and hold a fixed price and accepting the slower fill rate, or you can do the 0.01 ISK game and try for the entire market.
This would not get rid on the 0.01 ISK game, it just adds a new option.
Outside the Trit, Pyerite and (maybe) Mexallon markets, this would be irrelevant.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
14
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Posted - 2016.08.10 13:22:55 -
[16] - Quote
The only other way to do a market in Eve may be to take a leaf out of the book of least PvP-oriented MMO game I've ever played - Final Fantasy 11.
The way the market worked in that was that Sell Orders were not visible - instead the only thing that potential buyers could see was the sales history. You had to bid a price and if a match was made, you got the item from the seller with the lowest Sell Order - but critically you got it at the price you bid.
This meant that sellers had to guess if their market was rising or falling, based on knowledge and the data. It also meant that in high volume markets sellers would heavily undercut, relying on buyers who were bidding at the normal price to sell stuff fast. And then there were people who would bid well under the odds on those high volume markets in order to catch people at that.
A blind market might be the only way to change Eve's market system - if you are convinced that it requires a change (I'm not). |
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
419
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Posted - 2016.08.11 01:51:45 -
[17] - Quote
Just don't ever stop to 0.01 isking, my profits are dependent on it... as long as you all keep 0.01 isking its ok... move along, move along...
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
38
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Posted - 2016.08.11 06:42:48 -
[18] - Quote
Just list the stuff at sensible price at the right place and it will sell eventually. People will undercut you so theirs will get sold first, but eventually stuff gets sold at the price you set over time, unless you've priced your stuff ridiculously high that nobody will ever buy it, but even those get sold from time to time by someone's mistake or whatever.
When I started out trading first I was very actively updating my orders, but these days I just put something on market at the price I think is right and let them sit there. They usually get sold over the months because prices go up and down. You see the ISK much later/slower than active 0.01 isking but it's hassle free.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
15
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Posted - 2016.08.11 16:03:55 -
[19] - Quote
Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker
one cannot simply just get rid of 0.01 |
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
17
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Posted - 2016.08.11 18:41:27 -
[20] - Quote
You just make the tick increments based on the price of the item being traded. For <10.00 Isk its 0.01, for <100 is 0.10, for 1000 its 1, etc whatever you get the idea. |
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Princess Adhara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
39
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Posted - 2016.08.12 00:57:10 -
[21] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:You just make the tick increments based on the price of the item being traded. For <10.00 Isk its 0.01, for <100 is 0.10, for 1000 its 1, etc whatever you get the idea.
I'd rather have the minimum increment increase with the number of dumb posts made in the forum.
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2913
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Posted - 2016.08.12 05:27:18 -
[22] - Quote
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:You just make the tick increments based on the price of the item being traded. For <10.00 Isk its 0.01, for <100 is 0.10, for 1000 its 1, etc whatever you get the idea. What would that accomplish?
Just set a reasonable price and come back a week or two later if it hasn't sold.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Parker Rush
Hek Mining and Industries. Inc. Mercy Killers
2
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Posted - 2016.08.15 13:34:37 -
[23] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:The only other way to do a market in Eve may be to take a leaf out of the book of least PvP-oriented MMO game I've ever played - Final Fantasy 11.
The way the market worked in that was that Sell Orders were not visible - instead the only thing that potential buyers could see was the sales history. You had to bid a price and if a match was made, you got the item from the seller with the lowest Sell Order - but critically you got it at the price you bid.
This meant that sellers had to guess if their market was rising or falling, based on knowledge and the data. It also meant that in high volume markets sellers would heavily undercut, relying on buyers who were bidding at the normal price to sell stuff fast. And then there were people who would bid well under the odds on those high volume markets in order to catch people at that.
A blind market might be the only way to change Eve's market system - if you are convinced that it requires a change (I'm not).
Exhalted OP likes this idea. Methinks as well that mmorpg markets tend to behave as retail markets, and more emphasis on item quality should be considered. You use ****** parts for my ship module? Your module sells for less. |
SCREAMING HAT GOBLINS
BIG WORDS
0
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Posted - 2016.08.21 23:00:16 -
[24] - Quote
I know, lets switch to .001
Problem solved. |
virm pasuul
The Congregation No Handlebars.
400
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Posted - 2016.08.25 11:25:48 -
[25] - Quote
SCREAMING HAT GOBLINS wrote:I know, lets switch to .001
Problem solved.
big chuckle here :) thinking about it, it's not such a bad idea, even extend it a few more decimal places 0.00000001 if people want to waste time by 1 millionth of an ISKing, let them have at it I say the 0.01 ISK game is a fools game anyway
I don't think the market needs to change but suggestions to help the OP
make the fee for an order scale up for each price change the first change costs 100 then the next price change of the same order costs 1,000 then 10,000 then 100,000 then 1,000,000 after a few price changes the change fee will be more than the listing fees and it will not be economical to keep changing the price
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Kelly Traklamor
Dayra Industries
0
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Posted - 2016.08.26 15:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Honestly, I used to have a problem with the .01 isk practice myself. However reading 1 paragraph on Eve UniWiki changed my perspective on the matter so I figure I would share that paragraph here in case it might help others come to terms with the practice too.
Eve University Wiki wrote:0.01 ISK-ing Once you get into trading, you will notice that a lot of people tend to over/undercut you by just 0.01 ISK per unit. Quite a few new players seem to have a problem with this - often getting annoyed to the point where they radically change their orders, slashing huge chunks off their profits. However, a more useful way to look at the 0.01-isking is that it is simply the game mechanism by which a logged on and active trading player has the advantage over logged off or AFK traders. Over or undercutting your competitors by just 0.01 ISK is precisely how this is achieved. So when someone else over/undercuts you by just 0.01 ISK, they are just getting their turn at the front of the queue. If you are there, updating your orders, you can simply update your orders and it is back to your turn to be at the front of the queue... On the other hand if you are not there, or not logged on, don't get so bent out of shape when someone that is active happens to be reaping the rewards. And when you start doing some 0.01-isking of your own, try using your mouse-wheel to bump your price. You might like it, specially since it can be quite quick once you get used to it. Of course, sometimes the market for a particular item is simply unrealistic, or maybe you need your trades to go through quickly for some reason - a radical price change might be called for, but a good trader will have identifiable reasons for making such a change, rather than it just being an emotional "I'll show you!" response to being 0.01-isked. Source: Wiki Article - .01 isking section
Underlined & Bolded for emphasis. Ultimately I used to think about it like most others in game did, that some PITA was just wasting my time and undercutting my market orders by just enough to block my stuff from selling or buying. However after reading the above and truly thinking about the situation, I think the practice makes total sense because why shouldn't the guy that sits in JITA and spends all his time actively refreshing and adjusting market orders be able to reap the reward of purchases and sales over the guy that just sticks up a market order and only wants to check back on it occasionally.
Because of this, I find that I can no longer make the argument for changing the market to prevent the .01 isk bumping anymore. Anyone who is playing the game actively should always have the edge over anyone who is AFK or semi AFK from the game. Its the same thing when it comes to Mining ORE. You could setup a Retriever or Mack, fit it with a max yield fit and target a couple of rocks and go AFK to do house work while your ore hold fills up or you could stay at the keyboard ready to warp out if someone pops in to harass you. Both players will earn money and the AFK miner may even get away with it a few days or so without a problem but eventually the active miner will pay off much more as his barge isn't destroyed as often if at all. |
Cista2
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2016.08.26 16:16:40 -
[27] - Quote
Kelly Traklamor wrote:a more useful way to look at the 0.01-isking is that it is simply the game mechanism by which a logged on and active trading player has the advantage over logged off or AFK traders. Which leads to, by means of logic, that the more casual player necessarily (on most market days) must apply a different strategy than 0.01 ISKing in order to increase profit / time. It is a neverending source of amusement that 0.01 ISKers do not understand this simple deduction.
My channel: "Signatures"
-
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Cooyaw
Cajun Fast Mart
100
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Posted - 2016.09.10 01:01:22 -
[28] - Quote
if GetMarketOrderAdjustmentOP =< int(.01) do action.UnsubscribeEve elseif GetMarketOrderAdjustmentOP == int(.01) do action.LearnLesson
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Dos Bek
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
0
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Posted - 2016.09.11 20:00:25 -
[29] - Quote
Work harder and/or smarter?
In Eve, as in life, there is no free lunch.
In my first few months of building and selling (I don't trade), I did the 0.01 isk waltz. I stopped. Made me dizzy.
My first several months of building/selling are not represented in this table.
http://imgur.com/HacUidO
Those are sales from about 6 dozen different T1 items.
I suppose the gross sales and margin would be higher if I did T2 items.
I spend at most 6 hours per week which includes hauls my own stuff to/from an off-NPC build location. |
Raz Xym
The Graduates The Initiative.
10
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Posted - 2016.09.13 02:26:23 -
[30] - Quote
Parker Rush wrote:Dear ccp,
Please fix markets ^^^^^ this bad, no good.
Parker
The way to fix this is to stop changing orders by 0.01.
I find when I constantly change my orders by a much larger factor, they stop constantly making 0.01 changes or start acting irrationally.
It is in your hands. Act accordingly. |
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Morgan Agrivar
TriStar Market Solutions
492
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Posted - 2016.09.13 04:50:08 -
[31] - Quote
I hate you.
I put stuff on the market. If it sells, then wonderful.
If not, I put it lower and repeat. I am out blowing stuff up, I don't have time to sit there and play the 0.01 isk war with some dude.
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
959
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Posted - 2016.09.14 05:52:58 -
[32] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I agree. I need to learn to speak idiot, it would be a useful life skill
after 20 years in commercial media, I thought I was fluent in Idiot. I was wrong. oh so very wrong.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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tightface
Market Insights
1
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Posted - 2016.09.17 03:31:05 -
[33] - Quote
There exist methods to combat .01 isking in most markets today. For high quantity items, you could instead of setting up a single large order, layer with a bunch of smaller orders at multiple prices to obtain an average price you are good with. That means having some sell orders lower than what you would be comfortable with if it was a single large order. The same applied to buy orders. If the margins are uncomfortably low, existing large orders shouldn't move down to be the best offer (because they already locked in the broker fee at the higher price).. or there is reason to believe the price is still profitable (i.e., buying the components and manufacturing is still profitable at a lower price). Its called price discovery.
Another method to combat station traders is to reduce the spread by acting on both sides of the trade. So if your intent is to sell a large lot, and the spread is too wide, you can place some buy orders much higher, baiting larger buy orders to close the spread, until station traders decide it is no longer worthwhile.
And regarding the minimum tick size based on the price of the commodity, I'd be for that. Minerals could keep their .01 tick, and high value items (PLEX/SI/SE) could have a min tick of say 1mm. FWIW, in the STIRS (short term interest rates) futures markets, which are a low volatility, high volume instrument, exchanges implement a size priority allocation system called pro rata. In a pro rata scheme, a crossing order is spread out among multiple resting orders at the same price. So small traders and large traders both get a piece of the action, though large orders are prioritized. Check the CME pro-rata example for a visual. |
Alexi Borizkova
New Age Solutions
0
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Posted - 2016.09.20 19:41:47 -
[34] - Quote
I like the idea of a scaling fee for changing orders. If there is a fee for listing, a fee for selling, and a fee for altering, it would make marketing a more strategic game. Say you have 5k units to sell, you might list them as five separate batches of 1k at separate price points, letting those wholesale and tycoon skills come into play.
Then again, I think the single greatest failing in eve is the genericized market, there is no way to create automated or semi-automated systems for brand loyalty and customer rewards. If sellers could offer standings based discounts, loyalty point awards for purchases, etc, as integrated features (as opposed to tedious spreadsheet antics) it would be fantastic. |
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
138
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Posted - 2016.09.20 22:51:32 -
[35] - Quote
Alexi Borizkova wrote:I like the idea of a scaling fee for changing orders. If there is a fee for listing, a fee for selling, and a fee for altering, it would make marketing a more strategic game. Say you have 5k units to sell, you might list them as five separate batches of 1k at separate price points, letting those wholesale and tycoon skills come into play.
Then again, I think the single greatest failing in eve is the genericized market, there is no way to create automated or semi-automated systems for brand loyalty and customer rewards. If sellers could offer standings based discounts, loyalty point awards for purchases, etc, as integrated features (as opposed to tedious spreadsheet antics) it would be fantastic.
My brand loyalty is to the cheapest price. If you have the lowest sell order, I'm your biggest fan....until you're not. In terms of "loyalty points", this had been implemented to a certain degree with citadels. I have received emails from an owner or 2 that I've set orders up in telling me my fee rate has been lowered. The more I deal the lower it goes.
However, once more citadels popped up everyone went to .1 and on top of that, I think they have all been shut down. |
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