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Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
38
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Posted - 2016.08.06 18:50:37 -
[1] - Quote
With the upcoming changes to OGB and the rebalance of the Rorqual and Barges, I would like to start up a conversation regarding the implementation of these changes. So far miners have gotten special treatment when it comes to boosting, and I think that with this next balance pass that special treatment should end. The problem with this is that even with the upcoming buffs, the Rorqual will probably still see little to no belt time and in HS the a medium to large fleet would require multiple Orcas (1 per belt).
Option 1 - No more Mining Boosting
This idea is the most basic. Remove mining boosting completely. All mining ships would have their stats adjusted as if they always had Orca boosting. For the Rorqual's increased boosting, the increased yield would come from the capital mining drones. If you weren't going to take the Rorqual on grid, then you would have only gotten Orca boosting anyway. This change would require a reimbursement of skills and implants directly linked to mining boosting and would require a rebalance of the Orca. On that, my vote is for either a better ore hauler (bigger bays) or a mining drone ship.
Option 2 - Persistent Buff
From what I understand, the current plan for combat boosting is that the ships will get a persistent buff. If this is implemented into mining, I think that the buff should last several minutes and should be longer than the cycle time of the module. For the Rorqual, this would mean that you could jump into the belt just long enough to refresh buff and collect ore, then run back to safety. For the Orca, this means that it can warp between multiple belts to keep a medium to large fleet boosted.
Option 3 - Boosting Barges
This would give all Barges a utility high, or introduce a new line of boosting/mining ships (even if this means an increase in Orca drone yield). Barges would get no bonus, like T1 BC, and exhumers would get a 3% per level boost. The problem with a single utility high is that it will always be the cycle time boost and the other two will see little to no use. The utility high would also give barges more options for fitting. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
324
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Posted - 2016.08.07 08:01:39 -
[2] - Quote
Right now, Orca and Rorqual can hide behind a POS forcefield and provide boosts for the entire system - a lot of reward for essentially no risk.
From the little CCP have told us, I infer the skill/implant based boost will continue to work as it does now - you'll need the booster role in fleet but the boost will remain system wide. Only the boosts provided by the warfare link modules will be impacted by the change. They will not require a booster role in fleet and will be limited in range and duration.
This means you can have a 10% boost for mining yield with the mining foreman skill or 15% with the ORE Mindlink implant. I consider that reasonable if you aren't putting an Orca/Rorqual at risk.
Beyond that, you will need to assess the risk/reward balance of deploying an Orca or Rorqual on grid. The Rorqual is not defensible unless you have a home defense fleet nearby. On the other hand the additional yield may justify the risk - I haven't done the calculations. |
XxUltradmbxX
Girl Friends Please Ignore League of Unaligned Master Pilots
6
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Posted - 2016.08.08 13:18:30 -
[3] - Quote
i hope CCP will buff the Orca too it needs more cargo or a other reason to be in the bellt |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6312
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Posted - 2016.08.09 19:33:48 -
[4] - Quote
Command Destroyers like the Stork can fit 3 links with two Command Processors. |
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
38
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Posted - 2016.08.09 22:04:59 -
[5] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Command Destroyers like the Stork can fit 3 links with two Command Processors.
At 1/35 the cost and 80% the boost, it's a reasonable replacement for an on grid rorqual. But it doesn't help my orca concern.
I would be just as happy if they replaced all static belts with ice belt style anomolies. That way a large fleet could cluster with less concern about reduced efficiency. |
Kei Nagasai
X-COM Navy Fidelas Constans
11
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Posted - 2016.08.10 10:58:02 -
[6] - Quote
XxUltradmbxX wrote:i hope CCP will buff the Orca too it needs more cargo or a other reason to be in the bellt
Take away the rorq's boosting bonus, give it to the orca, let the orca compress ore, remove the industrial core completly from the game. Make the rorq a pure mining carrier, and bring the componant costs in like with other combat carriers. |
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
38
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Posted - 2016.08.10 15:03:23 -
[7] - Quote
Kei Nagasai wrote:XxUltradmbxX wrote:i hope CCP will buff the Orca too it needs more cargo or a other reason to be in the bellt Take away the rorq's boosting bonus, give it to the orca, let the orca compress ore, remove the industrial core completly from the game. Make the rorq a pure mining carrier, and bring the componant costs in like with other combat carriers.
But I am sure that by the time you give them a large enough yield to convince players to take them to belts, they would destroy the mineral economy. |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
113
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Posted - 2016.08.11 01:01:51 -
[8] - Quote
It literally doesn't matter what they do with mining, boosts, the rorq, or anything else. Mineral prices achieve an equilibrium by supply and demand. Messing with anything that affects the supply of minerals will just cause mineral prices to trend up or down. If the new equilibrium for most miners is that they make the same isk mining with no boosts or with an orca or a command destroyer or whatever, instead of with a rorqual... so what? Then the people who defend their space or have the best intel or live in the most remote places or work with coordinated fleets instead of a couple people boxing a lot... those people are rewarded by being able to use a rorq in relative safety.
What's wrong with that? Why do people think there need to be significant changes to the hull? Just give it mining fighters for the hell of it and kill off-grid boosts and call it good. More PVP, more destruction, more risk v reward balancing, same bottom line for most miners, better bottom line for some, worse bottom line for others. |
morion
Lighting Build
115
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Posted - 2016.08.11 13:05:10 -
[9] - Quote
if you still struggle with the rorqual ...
Solecist Project: author Player Features and Ideas Discussion
has some ideas I had not seen before |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6317
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Posted - 2016.08.11 17:40:02 -
[10] - Quote
You need to read more Rorqual threads |
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Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
521
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Posted - 2016.08.11 22:12:19 -
[11] - Quote
He also has other things, mostly issues :p |
Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
4
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Posted - 2016.08.15 09:22:19 -
[12] - Quote
I'm afraid that if CCP forces the Rorqual to be on field, it will be the end of the Rorqual.The new 'superweapon' where you can make your fleet invulnerable until help arrives will be quite useless for most cases. So you would always need a very strong backup fleet that can come and rescue. So only the biggest alliances might be able to do this (but only PL is not nearby). If they would remove the industrial core, then maybe. But if you're locked on the field for 10 minutes, you will die. |
Kalido Raddi
Echelon Research The Volition Cult
19
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Posted - 2016.08.15 12:28:14 -
[13] - Quote
I tend to agree that in most case, it's simply a 10 minute delay on the Killmail, *unless* the industrial core is removed or significantly changed. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
1046
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Posted - 2016.08.15 13:10:22 -
[14] - Quote
Might actually be worth mining in WH's :p ... maybe... high yeild ores please... Lock down the connections and use a rorqual... wonder if rorquals will have higher yields than barges?... Rorqual fleets?
No Worries
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Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
39
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Posted - 2016.08.15 15:29:25 -
[15] - Quote
From the o7 Show, it looks like Option 3 is close to what we get, unless the 1min buff timer can be increased and Option 2 becomes viable. |
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
39
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Posted - 2016.08.15 16:20:21 -
[16] - Quote
Kalido Raddi wrote:I tend to agree that in most case, it's simply a 10 minute delay on the Killmail, *unless* the industrial core is removed or significantly changed.
The video of the rorqual fleet shield showed it not in siege mode. And they said that you can light a cyno while shielded. So at the very least you can use MAD to reduce the chances of getting jumped. |
Gaius Clabbacus
Sister Beneficia's Home of Harmless Miners
13
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Posted - 2016.08.16 09:32:27 -
[17] - Quote
CCP announces a new "Industrial Command Ship" aimed at a T1 battlecruiser price point for people who dont want to risk an Orca or Rorqual in the belt.
https://youtu.be/nhTD1G36vvA?t=2909
(Edit: scroll back a bit in the video for the Rorqual stuff, but the Command Ship announcement was just one line.) |
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