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Solecist Project
32123
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Posted - 2016.08.16 04:04:32 -
[91] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't recall Blackbeard being able to pull into any port and get rest and repairs either. Good call.
This is the kind of balance that Dracvlad keeps bringing up. And I will bet that many a new player has left the game wondering "why are these people allowed to be here where I'm still trying to learn the game"?
Sadly, driving people out of the game IS their game, and the community management of CCP has people who know this and are a part of it. Until this internal rot is addressed the game will not go forward and all these feature bandaids, fake live events, and skins won't save it.
How many left, becauye they were bored? How many left, because there was zero immersion/player interaction?
CCP Rise stating that suicide ganking improved retention rate should give you a hint towards an answer. He also said that they found no connection between ganking and players leaving.
You should incorporate tat into your thinking process.
And furthermore, recruiting by shooting has been a thing for many years and it worked Which means it too helped retention rate.
But he, don't mind me using actual dev information and actjal history...
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Solecist Project
32123
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Posted - 2016.08.16 04:08:49 -
[92] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Please stop feeding the troll, Mr. Gabinia. If I can do that, so can you.
Hey, I'm new at this forum stuff. I'll learn eventually (without asking for nerfs or special treatment). Okay when you're really new I'll share some advise.
This forum eventually turns most people angry and bitter. I've seen it happen to me and so many others it's not even funny. The bitterness comes from all the nonsense some rather permaaggressive people continuously spread around.
A typical happening is when two start pingponging replies back and forth. It shows that their egos are way out of control and they don't have the willpower anymore to realize what actuall forces them to reply. ("You're wrong, i'm right" with lots of useless drivel")
If you ever catch yourself having a monologue (!) with with someone here, then it's time to take a walk.
I've been here for a while, don't make the same mistakes. :)
And now back to the regular program.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Nitshe Razvedka
1134
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Posted - 2016.08.16 05:59:37 -
[93] - Quote
I am not everywhere. You are just paranoid.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Kaely Tanniss
Addicted To Chaos Archetype.
662
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Posted - 2016.08.16 06:16:28 -
[94] - Quote
You'll probably like this one Sol..it applies so much to the forums..
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - Augustine of Hippo
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7938
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Posted - 2016.08.16 06:26:33 -
[95] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I don't recall Blackbeard being able to pull into any port and get rest and repairs either. Good call.
This is the kind of balance that Dracvlad keeps bringing up. And I will bet that many a new player has left the game wondering "why are these people allowed to be here where I'm still trying to learn the game"?
Sadly, driving people out of the game IS their game, and the community management of CCP has people who know this and are a part of it. Until this internal rot is addressed the game will not go forward and all these feature bandaids, fake live events, and skins won't save it.
How many left, becauye they were bored? How many left, because there was zero immersion/player interaction? CCP Rise stating that suicide ganking improved retention rate should give you a hint towards an answer. He also said that they found no connection between ganking and players leaving. You should incorporate tat into your thinking process. And furthermore, recruiting by shooting has been a thing for many years and it worked Which means it too helped retention rate. But he, don't mind me using actual dev information and actjal history...
CCP is never wrong, eh?
And Stockholm syndrome only goes so far.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Nitshe Razvedka
1135
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Posted - 2016.08.16 06:41:45 -
[96] - Quote
Roenok Baalnorn wrote: For all of you that insist that suicide ganking and pvp are the problem with new player retention... Im just going to leave this here. Between 1:00 and 5:00 is what you are looking for. Enjoy!
Typical codie rhetoric backed up with NO, I repeat NO empirical evidence. (sample gp is key)
Code looses again.
Send me a ticket to Iceland and I will apply proper quantitative research methods to CCP's vault of data.
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Serene Repose
2701
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Posted - 2016.08.16 07:58:19 -
[97] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Please stop feeding the troll, Mr. Gabinia. If I can do that, so can you.
Hey, I'm new at this forum stuff. I'll learn eventually (without asking for nerfs or special treatment). LOL. It threw the troll card. At last. It brings the tawdry commonplace. If this "questioner" is "beta" vetted, then this questioner knows what he/she left out and does not have to be told. Therefore, the persistent insistence for an answer is classic trolling....from someone "new at this forum stuff" and of course, abetted by our hero back from AA...aw, shucks. How do we rate?
We must accommodate the idiocracy.
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
55
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:11:32 -
[98] - Quote
I have not done the quantitative analysis, but logically ganking/newbie stomping can have muliple possible outcomes.
1. Emo rage quit this game sucks... 2. Holy ****! You can do this in this game? I want to do this myself! 3. Ah fock it. Let me read up on how to agoid this 4. I'm gonna PLEX and inject and get super bling to roflstomp thus guy
I can't say which reaction will be most likely, and there r probably more possibilities. But I think we can agree that any in game interaction with other players will not inevitably lead to only one possible reaction (e.g. Emorage quit).
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Solecist Project
32125
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:14:27 -
[99] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:CCP is never wrong, eh? And Stockholm syndrome only goes so far. I know what you-¦re saying, but it-¦s not really hard to crosscheck this. And even though i-¦d never say "they-¦d never lie" ... ... considering what they-¦re doing to highsec ... ... it makes zero sense to assume it was dishonest.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Solecist Project
32125
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:17:39 -
[100] - Quote
Toobo wrote:I have not done the quantitative analysis, but logically ganking/newbie stomping can have muliple possible outcomes.
1. Emo rage quit this game sucks... 2. Holy ****! You can do this in this game? I want to do this myself! 3. Ah fock it. Let me read up on how to agoid this 4. I'm gonna PLEX and inject and get super bling to roflstomp thus guy
I can't say which reaction will be most likely, and there r probably more possibilities. But I think we can agree that any in game interaction with other players will not inevitably lead to only one possible reaction (e.g. Emorage quit). that sounds very accurate. You forgot the raging without quitting, but that-¦s pretty much it.
in the end of all possible reactions, "quitting" is not only in a minority ... ... anyone quitting because of that would quit anyway eventually.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Nitshe Razvedka
1142
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:32:08 -
[101] - Quote
Solecist, if you want to take this topic seriously you need to drop your biases. Suggest you read up on Sense Making.
Rome is burning and you are clutching onto hoary old clich+¬s.
Nitshe has laid out the sighn posts and given the final solution
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Nitshe Razvedka
1142
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Posted - 2016.08.16 08:32:54 -
[102] - Quote
thx Nitshe. oh you are so huge.....
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4465
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 08:58:53 -
[103] - Quote
Welcome back Sol!
Hope you're doing fine.
I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.
In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.
Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.
Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.
Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.
Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.
Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)
o/
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
759
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Posted - 2016.08.16 09:02:22 -
[104] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Welcome back Sol!
Hope you're doing fine.
I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.
In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.
Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.
Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.
Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.
Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.
Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)
o/ This is why you should have been elected to the CSM.
That's a fresh idea that would create play for several groups. |
Solecist Project
32127
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Posted - 2016.08.16 09:05:03 -
[105] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Welcome back Sol!
Hope you're doing fine.
I'll throw an idea in the discussion: change CONCORD behaviour in 0.5 systems.
In 0.5, CONCORD doesn't blap GCC dudes anymore.
Instead, they warp in and target the illegaly-attacked guy. If and when his ship reaches, say 20% structure they zap him with an invulnerability lazor that also locks him in space. Like a siege module: no warping or jumping either. Effect lasts, say, 5 minutes.
Then it's up to the players. People can come and try to shoot the baddies, or jam them, whatever.
Could be random guys just passing by, or groups of security mercs, that will charge a fee.
Gankers would get to fly proper ships, instead of glass-cannon blappers. 'Good guys' would get a fun chance to fight, again in proper ships, instead of ECM gimmick boats or whatever the anti-gankers fly these days.
Or maybe nobody would show up because the victim has no friends and deserves to die, after his 5-minute 'come save me' window. :)
o/ hey Gully, long time no see!
thank you for your post!
this isn-¦t really a "nerf CONCORD" thread, but they as well as their meta entity play a significant role in the lownretention rate. simply asking the crowd controlling people to change mechanics would only play into their hands and we all really need to stop subconsciously obeying to an illegitimate authority that controls our lives without most people realizing.
the whole problem isn-¦t really game mechanics. it-¦s a cultural issue enabled by the heavy (and antique) restrictions when it comes to new players.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Toobo
Project Fruit House Solyaris Chtonium
55
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Posted - 2016.08.16 09:11:15 -
[106] - Quote
Well, as many have pointed out before, one can always play on sisi in complete peace and freedom, and it's a world where you don't have to risk anything.
The reason why both serious pvp AND pve players continue on tranquility though (even after heavy losses/disasters) because what you gain in sisi is meaningless. You can rat in supers and titans and do lvl 5 in low secs and hog all the resources in a quiet space in sisi - but all that isk or achievement on sisi is meaningless, both for pvp and pve players.
Maybe it says something about eve, that maybe we need this risk/loss/hostility/griefing and all that to make what we do meaningful - that you have achieved (whether pve or pvp) DESPITE the risk and hostility.
No risk and no consequence makes any action meaningless. People may discuss what is a good balance between pve and pvp, but the pure fact that majority of people persist on tranquility, or rather unsub than live permanent life on sisi, is a proof that we can exclude any notion of 'zero tisk' and/or '100% safety' as something that will NOT work in favour of player retention or growth.
Toobo is a lucky talisman. Try Toobo's lucky referral link at the awesome iwantisk website and have a great time
http://www.iwantisk.com/?ref=1216023697
Remeber - you win by luck and lose by luck. Don't go crazy. ;)
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
172
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 09:12:28 -
[107] - Quote
The problem is simple: what does a Miner get out of PvP? At best he gets away at worst he looses ship and cargo and pod. Does he even have a chance to get a kill? Nope, Concord gets the kill even if he fitted his ship that it would last till Concord arrives. If you neut someone and the rats kill him you get the kill, the miner doesn't because he is all passive.
The whole point is mute as long as the miner can't get anything out of PvP. IMHO both sides are barking at the wrong tree because more security doesn't really solve anything. Simply less security also doesn't really solve the problem it just leads to some frustration on the miner side and some joy by the gankers. In the end a zero sum game or because there are more miners then gankers overall negative to Eve. Ganking miners needs to be unreliable you just have to gamble if he is fitted so that you can kill him and if he is he gets the kill like in normal PvP.
When the miners is part of a cat and mouse game, where nobody is sure who is cat or mouse, it will give something to miners so they might start baiting. Give them high and middle slots for utility, increase the response time of Concord (in belts) and make it possible to warp out before Concord arrives IF!!!!! the miners doesn't tackle you.
Just slaughtering miners may be fun for the tears but it doesn't really add something to the game. To be real fun hunting miners needs to be dangerous or else you can prey on asteroids yourself. |
Solecist Project
32128
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Posted - 2016.08.16 09:17:36 -
[108] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is simple: what does a Miner get out of PvP? At best he gets away at worst he looses ship and cargo and pod. Does he even have a chance to get a kill? Nope, Concord gets the kill even if he fitted his ship that it would last till Concord arrives. If you neut someone and the rats kill him you get the kill, the miner doesn't because he is all passive.
The whole point is mute as long as the miner can't get anything out of PvP. IMHO both sides are barking at the wrong tree because more security doesn't really solve anything. Simply less security also doesn't really solve the problem it just leads to some frustration on the miner side and some joy by the gankers. In the end a zero sum game or because there are more miners then gankers overall negative to Eve. Ganking miners needs to be unreliable you just have to gamble if he is fitted so that you can kill him and if he is he gets the kill like in normal PvP.
When the miners is part of a cat and mouse game, where nobody is sure who is cat or mouse, it will give something to miners so they might start baiting. Give them high and middle slots for utility, increase the response time of Concord (in belts) and make it possible to warp out before Concord arrives IF!!!!! the miners doesn't tackle you.
Just slaughtering miners may be fun for the tears but it doesn't really add something to the game. To be real fun hunting miners needs to be dangerous or else you can prey on asteroids yourself. definitely a post for some other thread and way too specific about a specific thing onencan do ingame.
the problem is cultural and not per se related to game mechanics beyond how people can interact and communicate with new players.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17891
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 09:41:10 -
[109] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is simple: what does a Miner get out of PvP?
Higher profits, challenges to overcome, reward for being good at the task, engaging content. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1491
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 09:41:50 -
[110] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is simple: what does a Miner get out of PvP? At best he gets away at worst he looses ship and cargo and pod. Does he even have a chance to get a kill? Nope, Concord gets the kill
The rookie pond mechanics are fine and don't need looking at. With Crimewatch, timers, safety buttons and bounties there are more consequences than ever for empire fighters of all stripes.
Geronimo McVain wrote:Just slaughtering miners may be fun for the tears but it doesn't really add something to the game. To be real fun hunting miners needs to be dangerous or else you can prey on asteroids yourself.
I met a guy in Tolle who'd been mining in hisec for five years when he wasn't doing missions or roams, he'd never seen Spodumain. Hisec lowbrow shenanigans encourage people to move out of the rookie pond and get real with intel channels and def fleets. Using wormholes / blops/ spais to get at miners in null is dangerous and fun. Completely on another level.
The assumption that 'hisec forever' is a playstyle needs examining.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Jasmine Deer
Perkone Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2016.08.16 10:35:47 -
[111] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
For now, please, tell me what you think. :)
I think you sound like the villain in Star Trek Beyond |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
172
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 13:38:05 -
[112] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:definitely a post for some other thread and way too specific about a specific thing onencan do ingame.
the problem is cultural and not per se related to game mechanics beyond how people can interact and communicate with new players. It's not cultural it's educational. If you enjoy mining and industry the game gives you nothing to fight back. Your only opion it to relaye on Concord saving your but or running. If you do this long enough you learn 2 things: Standing tall will get you nothing but a loss mail and Concord is always to late. In the end you don't even know how to fight back and are lacking the will because you never ever won a fight. Let's face it: an industrial livestyle is in high. Who looses a thing if a miner/hualer can fight back? If you want to gank easy targets with 100% success rate tackle astroids! |
Solecist Project
32131
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Posted - 2016.08.16 13:47:20 -
[113] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Solecist Project wrote:definitely a post for some other thread and way too specific about a specific thing onencan do ingame.
the problem is cultural and not per se related to game mechanics beyond how people can interact and communicate with new players. It's not cultural it's educational. If you enjoy mining and industry the game gives you nothing to fight back. Your only opion it to relaye on Concord saving your but or running. If you do this long enough you learn 2 things: Standing tall will get you nothing but a loss mail and Concord is always to late. In the end you don't even know how to fight back and are lacking the will because you never ever won a fight. Let's face it: an industrial livestyle is in high. Who looses a thing if a miner/hualer can fight back? If you want to gank easy targets with 100% success rate tackle astroids! No.
The lack of education roots in a culture that neglects the new players. An education that should be provided by the players, not big brother ccp. Ccp teaches new players zero about the game and expects players to take them when they are already ruined by their experiences theylaid out for them. And worse, they give no proper environment to actually deal with new players.
ccp over the years whined about new player retention while never changing the root of the issue, which is not just the npe but also - first and foremost - the initial environment they start in.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14434
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 14:22:21 -
[114] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is simple: what does a Miner get out of PvP? At best he gets away at worst he looses ship and cargo and pod. Does he even have a chance to get a kill? Nope, Concord gets the kill even if he fitted his ship that it would last till Concord arrives. If you neut someone and the rats kill him you get the kill, the miner doesn't because he is all passive.
The whole point is mute as long as the miner can't get anything out of PvP. IMHO both sides are barking at the wrong tree because more security doesn't really solve anything. Simply less security also doesn't really solve the problem it just leads to some frustration on the miner side and some joy by the gankers. In the end a zero sum game or because there are more miners then gankers overall negative to Eve. Ganking miners needs to be unreliable you just have to gamble if he is fitted so that you can kill him and if he is he gets the kill like in normal PvP.
When the miners is part of a cat and mouse game, where nobody is sure who is cat or mouse, it will give something to miners so they might start baiting. Give them high and middle slots for utility, increase the response time of Concord (in belts) and make it possible to warp out before Concord arrives IF!!!!! the miners doesn't tackle you.
Just slaughtering miners may be fun for the tears but it doesn't really add something to the game. To be real fun hunting miners needs to be dangerous or else you can prey on asteroids yourself.
This post is why I say the real underlying problem is twofold: Part 1 is the defeatist nature of people who do industry. Part 2 is high sec, that exacerbates part 1.
My corp is mining and industrial corp. We stay in our little pocket of space and mine and rat and build things. When people come our way we kill them (many times with said mining ships) and usually with minimal Alliance support (ie we get help from other like minded corps but rarely does an alliance fleet come out and help us, the folks attacking us are long dead before they could get there lol). We aren't even a huge corp, real people wise, I have 5 alts in corp myself.
And yet we beat the crap out of folks who screw with us knowing CONCORD won't come help because we are in null sec. Despite the fact that it won't be Catalysts attacking us, it's BLACK OPS BATTLESHIPS. Up until a few days ago we had PANDEMIC LEGION in drop range of us, I lost a Ratting Navy Vexor to a freaking PL NYX.
What did we do? We kept ratting and mining. We dealt with PL even knowing Super Carriers could be dropped on us, we adapted. We FOUGHT BACK. And we Won. And we won without asking CCP to improve our Procs and Skiffs, we won with what we had, not what we wished we had.
But somehow we're supposed to believe that miners in HIGH SEC surrounded by other people they could be joining with, supported by magical space police that will fall out of the sky to attack people that attack them, these people can't deal with catalysts... it's pathetic, and CCP really needs to stop developing for pathetic people.
CCP needs to learn that it doesn't work, if you buff these high sec people who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag not only will they further dilute the game (this game was better when CCP didn't give a ****), but it won't even help the high sec people you aim to help. The reason why is that the high sec miner's problem isn't CODE or lack of slots on mining ships, it's their defeatist attitude, their losing mindset, and their unwillingness to group together for mutual defense. Better mining ships can't fix that, only those individuals can fix that inside themselves.
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Sack o'Richards
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2016.08.16 16:25:44 -
[115] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
Every other thread is always about specifics and details ... ... while this thread aims to be about the bigger picture and meta.
I want to know your thoughts, seriously ... i put actual effort into this. :p
Sorry i am late, it took 3 days to get this far! XD
I am all for the removal of corrupt CONCORD officials. And by corrupt, i mean all of them. If CONCORD has their way EVE will soon be only PvCONCORD. This is unacceptable.
The only way to save EVE at this point is to burn highsec until CONCORD is forced to address the players concerns.
If we won't do it, who will? Not the highsec carebear cancer that's trying to kill it. |
Solecist Project
32171
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:27:00 -
[116] - Quote
I see you didn't really understand... but that's okay.
"That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1167
|
Posted - 2016.08.16 16:34:46 -
[117] - Quote
wait.. People in hi sec aren't all perpetually at war over the right to make noodles in the sacred teapot? Man, that must be a dull existence. |
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
193
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Posted - 2016.08.16 17:34:31 -
[118] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: No.
The lack of education roots in a culture that neglects the new players. An education that should be provided by the players, not big brother ccp. Ccp teaches new players zero about the game and expects players to take them when they are already ruined by their experiences theylaid out for them. And worse, they give no proper environment to actually deal with new players.
ccp over the years whined about new player retention while never changing the root of the issue, which is not just the npe but also - first and foremost - the initial environment they start in.
Welcome back Sol, good to see you again, although the meta just for the sake of being meta fascination is an aqcuired taste ^^.
Well there are plenty of players out there, taking in newbies and helping them getting established and prepares them for the nature of EVE. So the premise that there is a non caring culture is not completely true IMO.
The main problem is getting in contact with them, and saving them from fearing player / player interactions. I myself avoided all player interaction when I started as I had heard that you should trust no one in EVE. After 1 year of finally levelling a domi for lvl 4 missions after running lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon (I know you love people who do this ^^), I finally wanted to do some PVP , sucked and went to get help by joining a corp and the rest is history.
My point > In EVE you can easily isolate yourself, or listen to the wrong people in NPC corps. I do not see how this can be changed realistcally. You have to wait for people getting ready to accept EVE as it is. The talk about changing cultures etc. is unrealistic as you do not have the platform to reach them or even assure they listen.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
172
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Posted - 2016.08.16 17:53:35 -
[119] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:[What did we do? We kept ratting and mining. We dealt with PL even knowing Super Carriers could be dropped on us, we adapted. We FOUGHT BACK. And we Won. And we won without asking CCP to improve our Procs and Skiffs, we won with what we had, not what we wished we had.
Tell me how you would do this stunt in High where everyone and his brother, dog, fiance and lawyer wanders through "your teritory" with 20+ unknown chars in local. NBSI makes a lot of things easier in Null then in High. All I'm saying is that just more or less security in High will not solve the problems. Just making Miners relay on others for protections, may it be some PvP fleet or Concord, breeds a lot of problems. |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14435
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Posted - 2016.08.16 18:05:08 -
[120] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote: Tell me how you would do this stunt in High where everyone and his brother, dog, fiance and lawyer wanders through "your teritory" with 20+ unknown chars in local.
20 friends with assigned drones and defensive boosts. Next question?
Quote: NBSI makes a lot of things easier in Null then in High. All I'm saying is that just more or less security in High will not solve the problems. Just making Miners relay on others for protections, may it be some PvP fleet or Concord, breeds a lot of problems.
NBSI has nothing to do with anything. Being prepared does. Knowing the game's mechanics does. Not defeating yourself before you even undock (which is what your posts suggests you do) helps.
I'll say it again, we figure out how to do it in null sec without any of the advantages of high sec. We (meaning the corp, I wasn't with them then) figured out how to do it in high sec when we lived in high sec. The people who can't are the people who didn't even try but prefer to run to CCP for help.
The problem isn't CODE or lack of slots, if literally the personality deficits of many who mine in high sec. This is why the EHP buffs and such led to more ganking. If you fix some external thing (like game mechanics) without addressing the actual interal cause of the problem (that cause is the prey-like behavior of many high sec miners, haulers and PVErs), then no amount of fixing will help. The time you guys spent jsut today on fourms debating the next ineffectual buff to miners you could have been teaching an existing miner how to survive and outwit gankers and thirve (making one less target for CODE, deny them enough targets and they wither and die).
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