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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
395
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:39:54 -
[31] - Quote
My point is: they exist. If I was online to fly them (and had the requisite SP), I would be flying them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17914
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 05:45:34 -
[32] - Quote
Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone.
CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2414
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 08:50:37 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone. CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships. A single rig will not do the trick.
[Megathron, baltec1's Megathron] Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II
500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Railgun II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x3 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x2
3au a second 383 dps (signficantly reduced application in reality) 65000 ehp 118.8mm reso 280,000,000 1,500 speed 2400 sig
Lets compare that to
[Vexor, SpleanKrusher's Vexor] 1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Valkyrie II x3 Valkyrie II x2 Hammerhead II x1 Hammerhead II x4 Warrior II x5
3au per second 455 dps 42,000 ehp 350mm scan res 110,000,000 isk 1303 speed 870 sig
Enough said.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17931
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 10:09:23 -
[34] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: A single rig will not do the trick.
1 rig, 2 implants = 1 fitting slot used.
The example you just tried is for a much much faster, cap stable shield fleet. It is not a normal fit people would use. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 10:41:52 -
[35] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote: ps Baltec, I already acknowledged in my first post that you can rig and implant your ship to make it warp faster. Will you ******* read the first post as I have already asked you do to avoid posting obvious ****.
Good will gone. CCP changed it because small ship users complained that interceptors were having a hard time chasing down ship and generally doing their job. As a battleship fan I am quite content with the way things have worked out as it now means I can have a battleship out running frigates if I so choose. Using a single rig is not a big sacrifice in ship fittings to get the jump on people expecting you to be going slower. Git gud at battleships.
Bal-tecGäó manufactures custom-made balls. (seriously I did not make that up). You can read about them on precisionballs.com
BTW are you seriously suggesting that an interceptor is unable to catch a battleship which has had its warp speed buffed to 3.0?
As I also stated in my first post which lets face it you didn't read that I am quite happy with cruiser size hulls and smaller warping faster than the larger ships in the game.
The issue I have is that it takes too long for BS and BC to roam any reasonable distance and this has lead in part to a reduction in the number of gangs out for a roam. It certainly has created a bias towards fleets that can warp and align quickly.
I am in no way suggesting a nerf to small fast ships, I am asking that the larger hulls receive a mild buff back to 3.0AU where they were quite happily placed for over 10 years.
(Just to repeat again in case someone missed it) leave the smaller hulls to warp faster, no issue with that at all. I disagree that a rig slot lost to a warp speed rig is not a significant sacrifice for a BC or BS. No other warships have to do this to go on a simple fricken roam. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:00:03 -
[36] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:One rig and one slot 6 implant.
Sorted.
Or fly a mach.
Also, why do you think warp speed changes are the reason no-one flies battleships, not T3 cruisers that do everything battleships can do but better, or T3ds, which do everything very cheaply?
I put some of that blame on tiericide. IMO it killed the appeal of some fun BS' when it didn't change much except make them too expensive to fly for giggles and grins. I didn't see a massive shift in BS doctrine. the tier 3 wasn't the primary fleet bs because of tier...it was because the others couldn't do the job desired anyway kind of thing.
Caldari tiericide (my first and longest played race for pvp) still had Rokh the main fleet bs. It wasn't the tier..its was the guns. FC says drop target now...they mean now. Not wait for missile flight time now. Raven still the pve bs that you can try to say yes it can do pvp...but there it is losing out to instant hit guns in more mixed bs doctrines. And scorpion stayed scorpion. But its price shot up to its not that fun to pay this price for joyride levels.
I always had a place in my heart for scorpion. Scorpion was big and slow..but fun. Cheap throw away jam ship. Know some who enjoyed busting balls rushing into huge clusters of hostiles, pop the aoe ecm burst....and fly out if you can. Man this got people fired up lol. Post tiericide and the price spike...man if we had to fly serious again because of isk loss...back to falcon we went. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
834
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:06:24 -
[37] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:For EVE to be larger we need more content per system is the issue. Not the slowness of warp, but the fact that systems are so small and limited. A single system should be full of life and things to do, not have maybe 3 or 4 (or in a very busy WH maybe 15) anoms & sigs. And only more if they are 'instanced' missions. (Yes people can join them by scanning you but they don't exist in general).
You seem to have neglected to mention that systems themselves are functionally like a form of instancing. Perhaps if EVE architecture were more technically adept you could divorce systems entirely from the stargate idea and instead have people use stargates to move constellations/regions. You would then need to warp star to star and thus arrive at random points within the system you're aiming to enter, within say 4au of the star. This form of warping would be faster than regular warping since it uses the gravity well theory instead of just straight up onboard engine based warp drive.
Over all a more dynamic and interesting form of transport with less of the tedious **** that EVE suffers from like gatecamps etc. If the devs want to really encourage players to fight over objects then a great first leap needs to happen in the transportation side of things, the stargate system is a quaint relic of an older era of game design philosophy and I seriously don't think it adds anything to the game for the people who want to fight over moons and structures. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:42:51 -
[38] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:For EVE to be larger we need more content per system is the issue. Not the slowness of warp, but the fact that systems are so small and limited. A single system should be full of life and things to do, not have maybe 3 or 4 (or in a very busy WH maybe 15) anoms & sigs. And only more if they are 'instanced' missions. (Yes people can join them by scanning you but they don't exist in general). You seem to have neglected to mention that systems themselves are functionally like a form of instancing. Perhaps if EVE architecture were more technically adept you could divorce systems entirely from the stargate idea and instead have people use stargates to move constellations/regions. You would then need to warp star to star and thus arrive at random points within the system you're aiming to enter, within say 4au of the star. This form of warping would be faster than regular warping since it uses the gravity well theory instead of just straight up onboard engine based warp drive. Over all a more dynamic and interesting form of transport with less of the tedious **** that EVE suffers from like gatecamps etc. If the devs want to really encourage players to fight over objects then a great first leap needs to happen in the transportation side of things, the stargate system is a quaint relic of an older era of game design philosophy and I seriously don't think it adds anything to the game for the people who want to fight over moons and structures.
Was never partial to the ditch classic SG ideas at first...but they have grown a little on me.
Especially in the wake of the decline of BS and other ships to the dreaded, by some, rise of T3. Why the rise many ask. Get the canned well it does everything good comment. Also stems from sadly they are more survivable for crap that can happen in transit. Have money, don't want to die... if it works use it.
A more random system entry has its appeals more and more to me. Current system and the home team has decent intel channels, and there is a wagon train of BS, or hacs, or tore non-t3 looking at doing 2 things.
Dying in a massive gate camp. Or diverting to new system routes when scouts get that spider sense from a system with 30 people in it....and he can't find any of them. Enough route diversions and its no longer a night of potential fun. Its an exercise in space navigation. random dumps into system and it could get interesting as those 30 people can't clog up the gate. Other side back doors in....they have to readjust. In short....we'd get fights and not turkey shoots on gates.
Current state is why is I see t3 liked. Fast and agile, tanks and shooty. Also not as easy a target if crap goes bad like above.
If not your idea a more reasonable caveat could be not only landing on grid to the damn gate. lets have it 4 grids-8 grid range. 1000-2000 km range give or take. gate fire...gate fire...where the hell are they at? maybe grid 1, grid 4....spread out and find them. vice now where its we all land in a small 250km box. Bubbles up, insert fish into barrel....shoot fish.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17935
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:49:15 -
[39] - Quote
Maraner wrote:
BTW are you seriously suggesting that an interceptor is unable to catch a battleship which has had its warp speed buffed to 3.0?
Im telling you why the change to warp speeds happened. Although yes, It is possible to out warp an interceptor with 3au/sec speeds as a base.
Maraner wrote: As I also stated in my first post which lets face it you didn't read that I am quite happy with cruiser size hulls and smaller warping faster than the larger ships in the game.
The issue I have is that it takes too long for BS and BC to roam any reasonable distance and this has lead in part to a reduction in the number of gangs out for a roam. It certainly has created a bias towards fleets that can warp and align quickly.
I am in no way suggesting a nerf to small fast ships, I am asking that the larger hulls receive a mild buff back to 3.0AU where they were quite happily placed for over 10 years.
(Just to repeat again in case someone missed it) leave the smaller hulls to warp faster, no issue with that at all. I disagree that a rig slot lost to a warp speed rig is not a significant sacrifice for a BC or BS. No other warships have to do this to go on a simple fricken roam.
Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1370
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:54:01 -
[40] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: A single rig will not do the trick.
1 rig, 2 implants = 1 fitting slot used. The example you just tried is for a much much faster, cap stable shield fleet. It is not a normal fit people would use.
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1370
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 11:55:18 -
[41] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game.....
You do know there are lowslot modules for warping now in the game, right?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
807
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:05:55 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds.
Does become a vicious cycle don't it.
Saw your fit ideas and they do work. Issue becomes some can't get off the too much compromise mindset. Or certain implants if used. See their point but also see the point if you want to use BS beyond pos bash or called bs ops (usually cap support/save ops lol)....trade offs need to be made.
But I am more open minded. In my view bs' have been on a downward trend since 2009 when I first started. Accepting and moving on with fit compromise just a thing. Long ago...you traded off on fit to live AOE doomsday. Some needing some perspective can google up those fits. At least with yours and others workarounds the bs can keep some functionality. A DD proof fit....man they hurt all aspects of the boat to keep up tank. And only good for one thing. Yay I lived, gtfo now. Enter phase 2... drop more titans. Nuke the site orbit, just to be sure.
What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:54:31 -
[43] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote: What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it.
There are two things that have impacted BS use heavily. T3 cruisers and the bomb buff.
For general roaming and small gang use, it went on the decline when CCP added tracking to the game and killed the likes of the cavalry raven. The last year hasn't been that bad for BS use, they are in a good place. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17943
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 13:56:19 -
[44] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Nah I'm just stubborn and love the Megathron. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1060
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 17:53:35 -
[45] - Quote
People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:35:47 -
[46] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Maraner wrote:I understand that you can use rigs and implants to up the AU of ships.
The issue is why do BS and BC have to sacrifice so much to still be left behind by most other ship types in the game..... You do know there are lowslot modules for warping now in the game, right?
Yes... to recap I am asking for a buff to 3.0 regardless of available rigs, implants or modules. |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 19:36:40 -
[47] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
That is the most sensible thing anyone has said in this thread |
Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
358
|
Posted - 2016.08.18 21:55:23 -
[48] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:elitatwo wrote:
Maybe but those fits always gets you fights, you usually wouldn't get. That is why I love to do things different then everyone else.
The expectation is x and suddenly you meet me and get w instead.
I guess it's the same for you.
Nah I'm just stubborn and love the Megathron.
If you love it why do you constantly argue against any buff to AU speed, base hitpoints or anything else that would raise the possibility of increased numbers being seen?
I suppose it could be that you genuinely believe that all is fair and balanced??? |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2416
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 01:53:29 -
[49] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:baltec1 wrote: Which means battleships warp as fast as cruisers which means the cruiser pilots are upset and demand faster speeds.
Does become a vicious cycle don't it. Saw your fit ideas and they do work. Issue becomes some can't get off the too much compromise mindset. Or certain implants if used. See their point but also see the point if you want to use BS beyond pos bash or called bs ops (usually cap support/save ops lol)....trade offs need to be made. But I am more open minded. In my view bs' have been on a downward trend since 2009 when I first started. Accepting and moving on with fit compromise just a thing. Long ago...you traded off on fit to live AOE doomsday. Some needing some perspective can google up those fits. At least with yours and others workarounds the bs can keep some functionality. A DD proof fit....man they hurt all aspects of the boat to keep up tank. And only good for one thing. Yay I lived, gtfo now. Enter phase 2... drop more titans. Nuke the site orbit, just to be sure. What I think was the start of the BS' decline. Was in long enough that by the time ccp removed aoe DD cap proliferation was already a thing. Needed something to live through doomsday and still put out some damage. Smaller ops already in the hands of hacs and such. ratting and pos bash the only roles left to it. They're not workarounds they're self inflicted nerfs to the point you're better off using another smaller ship.
The only reason to use a battleship is EHP and DPS (against other similiar sized targets). These 'workarounds' trade the ehp and dps making the workaround pointless and in most cases making the battleship worse than a cruiser.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 05:53:22 -
[50] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow.
What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it?
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2418
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 06:16:45 -
[51] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 07:33:32 -
[52] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again.
The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2419
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 15:53:41 -
[53] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again. The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. What you just said makes no sense. Stratios already warps at 3au...
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Caleb Seremshur
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 16:33:51 -
[54] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it? That's kind of irrelevant. If you want to kill a ratter / miner you can do so already in extremely fast aligning AND warping ships. No one is going to jump in a megathron with an 10 second align time just because it can warp at a base speed of 3au again. The proposal came from a guy who hunts ratters in stratios. Your example is the irrelevant point here. What you just said makes no sense. Stratios already warps at 3au...
He just literally said in my quote here that he wants to buff ALL warp speeds. ALL. What did you miss there? Do you see why I'm specifically suspicious of his motives, because I know he hotdrops? And that a higher warp speed on a cruiser of like 4.5au would mean that he'd have a much higher chance of catching slow aligning ships bogged down in ratting or mining or whatever..
This conversation is becoming more work than it's worth. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 18:52:21 -
[55] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:People like the differential between classes of ships.
People do not like hours in warp tunnels.
Buff all warp speeds such that interplay between ship classes remains, but larger things are not tediously slow. What that achieves is allowing guys who hunt ratters/miners to land on grid faster. Ultimately that's what it means for you isn't it?
I honestly didn't even think of that, despite blopsing a lot. I maintain that the Prospect is the best hunter in the game (alt character is currently #7 prospect pilot on zkill) because it has the best mix of warp speed, tank, and lock time currently. Despite that, 95% of times that blops hunters or normal gangs catch people in null or low, it was preventable if the ratter or miner had paid attention to local or intel. Basically, even if they doubled the warp speed of everything across the board, local would still grant a 95% safeguard to ever being attacked in low or null. Most good miners and ratters are docked up before you even enter local. While it may constitute a small buff, it doesn't change local, which is the strongest mechanic granting safety in the game. Even if the prospect went 12 AU/s, between the entering the system delay, 3-4 dscan cycles if you are within 14.3 AU, 4-7 dscan cycles if you are off in another cluster plus the warp time, etc, you have enough time to escape the site in almost any ship, if you are paying attention.
No primarily it means people would (or at least more often) actually undock in fleets, solo, and small gangs, that were not all small things, and actually find other things to shoot at in space. When you sit down and play EvE, you basically now have to make a decision - do I undock in things cruiser sized and below and find a fight or two, or do I undock in a bigger thing and never find a fight? If I only find larger ships engaging, and find the cheap and ditsy game of space bumper cars online, or t3d online, or whatever you want to call the current large ship abhorring meta very lame, I am going to be driven to just play another game. Think of how many more interesting interactions would occur if gangs encountered each other more often? It would be great if we could see diverse fleets interacting and fighting, EvE would come alive, as opposed to just being a desert of t3d gangs patrolling around until they find ganks (not fights) to take.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Infensus
835
|
Posted - 2016.08.19 19:59:57 -
[56] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: I honestly didn't even think of that, despite blopsing a lot. I maintain that the Prospect is the best hunter in the game (alt character is currently #7 prospect pilot on zkill) because it has the best mix of warp speed, tank, and lock time currently. Despite that, 95% of times that blops hunters or normal gangs catch people in null or low, it was preventable if the ratter or miner had paid attention to local or intel. Basically, even if they doubled the warp speed of everything across the board, local would still grant a 95% safeguard to ever being attacked in low or null. Most good miners and ratters are docked up before you even enter local. While it may constitute a small buff, it doesn't change local, which is the strongest mechanic granting safety in the game. Even if the prospect went 12 AU/s, between the entering the system delay, 3-4 dscan cycles if you are within 14.3 AU, 4-7 dscan cycles if you are off in another cluster plus the warp time, etc, you have enough time to escape the site in almost any ship, if you are paying attention.
No primarily it means people would (or at least more often) actually undock in fleets, solo, and small gangs, that were not all small things, and actually find other things to shoot at in space. When you sit down and play EvE, you basically now have to make a decision - do I undock in things cruiser sized and below and find a fight or two, or do I undock in a bigger thing and never find a fight? If I only find larger ships engaging, and find the cheap and ditsy game of space bumper cars online, or t3d online, or whatever you want to call the current large ship abhorring meta very lame, I am going to be driven to just play another game. Think of how many more interesting interactions would occur if gangs encountered each other more often? It would be great if we could see diverse fleets interacting and fighting, EvE would come alive, as opposed to just being a desert of t3d gangs patrolling around until they find ganks (not fights) to take.
Well if you look at the game design and compare it to say... world of warships or most RTS games or any game involving aircraft you're not supposed to see a large number of the largest units. CV in WOWS are deliberately limited to 2 per side per match to make it perfectly clear that their power is meant to be limited. In the best games you get on wows, you have 3 DD, 5 CA, 3 BB 1 CV and that's the gold standard for the balance the game was built around. Of course WG have other issues I could expand on but not right now. In RTS the heaviest units are supposed to be rarely seen hence you see a prevalence for rushing because cheap units with high ROF/good alpha is superior to a smaller number of high resource consuming units based on losing less firepower per death, because the investment of each shot made is smaller for a given amount of resources over the number of bodies present. Both shots fired and hits taken matters less when you fly the lowest common denominator of fleet effectiveness which manifests itself in the modern game as the T3D. Previously it was the harpy or the crow but look where that got us.
Perhaps if all ships had 3au/s warp speed (except caps perhaps) I could see an argument being made for mixed fleet tactics but then it would probably all boil down again to the greater economic factors of replacing a whole fleet of battleships every fleet compared to the much smaller cost of replacing a fleet of svipuls. People suggesting that cost doesn't matter clearly don't see how this is a fallacy, cost does matter - it matters so much in fact that people are far more prepared to fight in 40mil isk svipuls than they are in 250mil isk rokh/typhoons. One of these extremes also takes a lot, LOT longer to train in to which means there's an upfront SP barrier to entry as well which further reduces the pool of candidates available to your doctrine.
So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
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Posted - 2016.08.19 21:30:47 -
[57] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are.
So, when I lived in a content rich area, I didn't mind undocking bushido battleships constantly. Yeah most of them got hotdropped or blobbed to death, but some of them found good fights. I found it fun that I could actually use battleships. There were practical. Consequently, the locals started employing diverse gangs - battlecruisers and battleships regularly populated camps and gangs, and you actually saw and appreciated the full spectrum of ship classes. Well that region is now burned to the ground, so what do I do if I want to get a fight? I have to get in a T3D, because I will never find a fight in a battleship. I'll admit the AT is a very contrived spectacle, but it is fun to watch and play in -because- you actually see all classes and types of ships interacting with their relative strengths and weaknesses. You don' t have that on TQ.
As a regular battleship pilot, both solo and small gang, I can tell you with absolute confidence, I would fly them more and have more fun if it wasn't just warp tunnels for hours on end. Author of the thread feels the same way. Most of us Battleship pilots feel the same way. Just thinking about T3D gangs makes me ill.
You have to remember part of the T3D menace's true strength is you get cruiser level damage and tank with frigate level speeds and warp speeds. They can find things to shoot at. Battleships can only -be- found.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
571
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Posted - 2016.08.19 21:40:19 -
[58] - Quote
BS and BC would be okay getting a speed/warp speed increase.
Caps a definitive no. Or at least a notably longer spool up time to get into warp for combat caps if they would get a warp speed increase.
However, until T3D's and T3's are dealt with, BS are going to continuously feel underwhelming because those other two classes are so out of balance.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Caleb Seremshur
Black Scorpions Inc Infensus
835
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Posted - 2016.08.20 04:36:57 -
[59] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:So to summarise while I agree about your comment regarding local to some degree I find the idea that warp speed alone would increase the number of battleships seen in gang level fights to be at best simply wishful thinking. If you want to complain about the current meta for roaming groups, blame CCP for making the smaller ships like svipul/confessor the way they are. So, when I lived in a content rich area, I didn't mind undocking bushido battleships constantly. Yeah most of them got hotdropped or blobbed to death, but some of them found good fights. I found it fun that I could actually use battleships. There were practical. Consequently, the locals started employing diverse gangs - battlecruisers and battleships regularly populated camps and gangs, and you actually saw and appreciated the full spectrum of ship classes. Well that region is now burned to the ground, so what do I do if I want to get a fight? I have to get in a T3D, because I will never find a fight in a battleship. I'll admit the AT is a very contrived spectacle, but it is fun to watch and play in -because- you actually see all classes and types of ships interacting with their relative strengths and weaknesses. You don' t have that on TQ. As a regular battleship pilot, both solo and small gang, I can tell you with absolute confidence, I would fly them more and have more fun if it wasn't just warp tunnels for hours on end. Author of the thread feels the same way. Most of us Battleship pilots feel the same way. Just thinking about T3D gangs makes me ill. You have to remember part of the T3D menace's true strength is you get cruiser level damage and tank with frigate level speeds and warp speeds. They can find things to shoot at. Battleships can only -be- found.
https://zkillboard.com/character/92717906/losses/ I'm not seeing where your BS losses to diverse fleet compositions comment is coming from. Infact almost every single one of those forementioned losses from may 14 -> present day comes from cruiser/dessy/frigate fleets. Is there any specific one you'd like to bring up?
Re: AT I personally enjoy watching it a lot because it represents are more idealised version of EVE that regrettably simply isn't true. Consider for a moment if much more minor versions of the same AT were held year round. We observe this behaviour with sports teams playing annually and with larger competitions every 3-4 years, at least in down under.
I'm not forgetting anything about T3D's here friendo, I own a couple myself. In nearly every game I play where the option is available I pick the heaviest class/weight class I can. In mechwarrior this was the atlas. In WOWS it's the CV. In BFxyz/ARMA I prefer tanks. On SISI I spend a considerable amount of time in carriers or battleships. On TQ... I don't really pvp very much at all right now. Not out of some endemic fear of the svipul but rather out of a disconnection with the grind. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
1063
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Posted - 2016.08.20 06:38:23 -
[60] - Quote
SO AFAIK, KB links are forbidden.
I haven't bothered to undock a BS since Querious died. At one point I'd lose a few Ravens/snakes a week. I even did some work with other solo BS fits a while back, but haven't looked back
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
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