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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.06 13:50:00 -
[61]
Im 99% sure if someone looses a ship this way it will get reimbursed.
The problem lies more within fixing this "bug", doupt thats easy programming wise.
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Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: turnschuh Im 99% sure if someone looses a ship this way it will get reimbursed.
Doubtful, the policy is always to only reimburse what is destroyed to stop item duplication. Otherwhise, we'll just get the bigger alliance's plex alt corps and their motherships ramming entire cap fleets out and stealing them to have them duplicated.
It's an exploit. Just as logging off to avoid combat is an exploit. Just as abusing plexes in every way imaginable is an exploit.
But hey. CCP obviously dealt with those in an appropriate manner.
And to the one asking about which supercap IAC used: I believe DS was referring to the Nyx that got nuked by LV/ISS, which was obviously out of sync. they have fraps, don't you know?
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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:03:00 -
[63]
Edited by: turnschuh on 06/05/2007 13:59:34
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: turnschuh Im 99% sure if someone looses a ship this way it will get reimbursed.
Doubtful, the policy is always to only reimburse what is destroyed to stop item duplication. Otherwhise, we'll just get the bigger alliance's plex alt corps and their motherships ramming entire cap fleets out and stealing them to have them duplicated. ?
ofc it will not be duplicated but they will give the ship back to its orginal owner.
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Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:14:00 -
[64]
Some background for the last couple of posters.
1. POS bowling has been ruled to NOT be an exploit.
2. AAA and D2 have had fun using exactly this in the past as well.
3. nothing is going to be reimbursed.
4. yes, anchoring a large bubble in the pos prevents this.
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:25:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius 1. POS bowling has been ruled to NOT be an exploit.
It should be, I have yet to see any reply stating any good reason why it should not.
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius 2. AAA and D2 have had fun using exactly this in the past as well.
I don't care who is doing it, it needs to be stopped NOW!
I don't want to see PvP becoming an arms race to find the latest exploit that CCP refuses to acknowledge and then milking it for every advantage it is worth over the SEVERAL MONTH PERIOD IT TAKES FOR CCP TO FIX THEIR BROKEN GAME.
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Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:30:00 -
[66]
It's ok.
This is not biggie tbh, there's not many people silly enough to park lots of expensive ships at a pos anyway.
...
It'll be fixed too, I hope. Just gotta laugh at it while it's not.
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Axia Firehead
Amarr Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:35:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Axia Firehead on 06/05/2007 14:31:23 bob use it, then it s not a exploit. someone else use it, then, he will be ban..
nice...... of course, patch note mean nothing. it s just a advertisment of possible thing that may happend.......
Primary Target |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:36:00 -
[68]
I don't care with, if this is something both sides are using.
At the end of the day, there is proof that someone here is using a borderline exploit.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:20:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Dal Thrax on 06/05/2007 16:19:02
Originally by: Fubear
Originally by: Kw4h Bump attempts earlier today Capital gang warping in to bump
After watching those videos, I have to say that this tactic is complete bullcrap. They are obviously abusing the game mechanics in a way that was not intended for personal gain, which is the very definition of an exploit as defined in the knowledgebase.
The fact that CCP allows gameplay like this to continue is sickening. I there is a gameplay issue that negatively affects other people, then it should be bumped to the top of CCP's priority list and fixed immediately. Other MMO's clamp down on exploits like this, fixing them within days or issuing a statement telling people not to do it if the fix will take longer than that - CCP takes weeks to even acknowledge and issue, takes months to fix it, and does nothing to stop it from being abused in the mean-time.
What makes matters worse is the terrible customer service this game has, one day something is an exploit, the next it is a feature and there is nowhere for us to check what is and is not allowed withing the game mechanics (except for those alliances I am sure receive their weekly lists of questionable activities they can get away with from under the table from their pet GM). When you hear of exchanges like the following, you know know there is a problem:
* Player1 takes advantage of game mechanics. * GM1 calls it an exploit and threatens Player1 with a ban. * Player2 performs exploit against Player3 Player3: Hey Player2 is exploiting GM2: This is not an exploit (closes petition) Player3: I think you must be mistaken, Player1 got threatened with a ban by GM1 last week for doing this. GM2: This is not an exploit, if you open any more petitions on the topic we will ban you. (closes petition) * GM2 bans Player1 for sharing GM communication
The bottom line is that this tactic should be addressed and fixed ASAP by CCP. If it is not an exploit, it should be made one TODAY and anyone taking advantage of it should be appropriately punished. CCP should start taking responsibility for their game, and policing it's gameplay because right now they are anything but on the ball when it comes to fixing core gameplay issues/bugs.
Cut CCP a small break. This entire thing blew up over the weekend of the games 4th Birthday. The folks that would normally handle this are probably out drinking somewhere. I have the feeling that Junior GM's aren't allowed to muck over a Titan owner. Wait tell Monday and see what CCP does.
That said CCP needs to wake up, when you put in writing in a devblog that something is an exploit then it damn well is an exploit. CCP may not see this as, as big a deal as prior events but it can damage the game just as deeply.
Dal
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again. soon as i have time i will fill you in on the details
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Boranomous
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Some background for the last couple of posters. 2. AAA and D2 have had fun using exactly this in the past as well.
Oh really? Proof or stfu.
It is stuff like this, http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/tarrex/bob_exploit.avi that is intentionally done and not un-intentional warp to moon and bump people from inside the shields.
But of course, nothing will be done to BoB and their lame tactics.
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Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
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Posted - 2007.05.06 16:46:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 06/05/2007 16:43:11 Just ask Evil Thug, he got a carrier this way sometime last week I believe.
Also, the exploit mentioned in that devblog refers to people boarding ships that are inside a bubble, or scooping stuff that is inside a bubble. And that has indeed been fixed.
Yes, of course this needs fixing. How do you get somehting fixed the fastest in Eve ? Bingo.
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Karille
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:04:00 -
[72]
Honestly why does this even need fixing? What, it isn't realistic?
Our ships fold space to get where they're going while warping, so its quite possible they could land inside the shields of a starbase. Then when they exit the bubble and start to materialize in normal space they push things around and are subject to the starbase forcefield.
If you want your ships to be safe either log off in them or leave them in a station. Never in my entire time playing eve have I seen occasion to leave my ship parked at a starbase unmanned outside of a hangar.
It may be an exploit, it may not me, but i certainly don't think it needs fixing. _________________________________________________________
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iqplayer
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius It's ok.
This is not biggie tbh, there's not many people silly enough to park lots of expensive ships at a pos anyway.
...
It'll be fixed too, I hope. Just gotta laugh at it while it's not.
Laugh?? Only because it hasn't happened to you. Bob attempted to bump my Naglfar out of the POS shields yesterday.... *while* I was in it. If they get a good hit, even a piloted ship can be in big trouble, because as long as you're moving away, you can't warp - I hope you've got a cyno ready to go in a nearby system. Oh, and beyond the fact that Ship Arrays don't work properly (note the 'Known Issues' to see that they now consider not being able to store ships with items in cargo a bug), this is now bowling for piloted ships, not just empty ones.
Worse, my connection dropped while they were doing this, and because they'd already bumped and destroyed one of my ships that *was not* piloted, apparently I received a 15 minute aggro timer.... The game is flawed in this POS mechanic, and related ones. That's called a bug. Abusing bugs is called an exploit. CCP just doesn't want to have to deal with the issues involved in either fixing, or enforcing, these issues.
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Boranomous
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:15:00 -
[74]
A lot of people are making this subject out to be, "If you don't put your ship into the hangar you get what you get when it gets bumped out". That, I agree with, but what the real exploit is, is getting bumped out and destroyed by a dread fleet waiting while you are inside of your ship trying to defend your POS.
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Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Cut CCP a small break. This entire thing blew up over the weekend of the games 4th Birthday. The folks that would normally handle this are probably out drinking somewhere. I have the feeling that Junior GM's aren't allowed to muck over a Titan owner. Wait tell Monday and see what CCP does.
That said CCP needs to wake up, when you put in writing in a devblog that something is an exploit then it damn well is an exploit. CCP may not see this as, as big a deal as prior events but it can damage the game just as deeply.
Dal
No, I will not cut CCP any slack. The gameplay of this game is degenerating at an alarming pace, it doesn't matter how unfair, broken or outside of the 'spirit of the game' some techniques are people are exploiting them for everything they can and use the holy 'game mechanics' argument to justify their actions while CCP appears to bury their head in the sand and simply ignore the issue.
CCP needs a kick in the ass to get them moving, they need to address these issues with a certain level of urgency. This bug/exploit/'game mechanic' (and others) is spoiling the gameplay experiance of many people and needs to be fixed, not in three months time (if we are lucky) but right now.
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Karille
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:30:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Boranomous A lot of people are making this subject out to be, "If you don't put your ship into the hangar you get what you get when it gets bumped out". That, I agree with, but what the real exploit is, is getting bumped out and destroyed by a dread fleet waiting while you are inside of your ship trying to defend your POS.
I promise you aren't doing much defending inside those shields. _________________________________________________________
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TrulyKosh
Solo for UNCLE
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Posted - 2007.05.06 19:11:00 -
[77]
Originally by: turnschuh Im 99% sure if someone looses a ship this way it will get reimbursed.
Out of personal experience: you are 100% wrong :) I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett) |
Codil
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Posted - 2007.05.06 19:32:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Karille Honestly why does this even need fixing? What, it isn't realistic?
Our ships fold space to get where they're going while warping, so its quite possible they could land inside the shields of a starbase. Then when they exit the bubble and start to materialize in normal space they push things around and are subject to the starbase forcefield.
If you want your ships to be safe either log off in them or leave them in a station. Never in my entire time playing eve have I seen occasion to leave my ship parked at a starbase unmanned outside of a hangar.
It may be an exploit, it may not me, but i certainly don't think it needs fixing.
I think it would be more realistic, if someone warps inside a pos shield they would get trapped there till you warp or jump out.
No reason you should get out if you can't get in.
CCP should really just have a policy that nothing is an exploit and nothing can be petitioned.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.05.06 20:07:00 -
[79]
Edited by: madaluap on 06/05/2007 20:05:06 Just make killers out of those shields for 2 days. If someone warps into a neutrol or enemy POS shield with a capital it explodes. Now that should be fun. Offcourse that will be just a hotfix during DT.
After those 2 days just deploy the actual bug fix. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.06 22:59:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Boranomous A lot of people are making this subject out to be, "If you don't put your ship into the hangar you get what you get when it gets bumped out". That, I agree with, but what the real exploit is, is getting bumped out and destroyed by a dread fleet waiting while you are inside of your ship trying to defend your POS.
I promise you aren't doing much defending inside those shields.
Yep nobody would EVER stay within to POS field to call targets, or belt out scans looking for incoming, or to launcher probes for your safe (is this possible within in FF?). Yep the defender will ALWAYS put it's command and control out in the open where you can shoot it even when you're attacking THEIR HARDENED DEFENSIVE POSITION. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
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Karille
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.06 23:01:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Karille on 06/05/2007 22:59:06
Originally by: Jas Dor
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Boranomous A lot of people are making this subject out to be, "If you don't put your ship into the hangar you get what you get when it gets bumped out". That, I agree with, but what the real exploit is, is getting bumped out and destroyed by a dread fleet waiting while you are inside of your ship trying to defend your POS.
I promise you aren't doing much defending inside those shields.
Yep nobody would EVER stay within to POS field to call targets, or belt out scans looking for incoming, or to launcher probes for your safe (is this possible within in FF?). Yep the defender will ALWAYS put it's command and control out in the open where you can shoot it even when you're attacking THEIR HARDENED DEFENSIVE POSITION.
All things that a small ship can do that won't be affected by bumping like a large ship would.
Edit: Not to mention that if your target caller can't target things to see their remaining health their effectiveness is going to be severely diminished. _________________________________________________________
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w0rmy
Pringles Inc. YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:36:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
4. yes, anchoring a large bubble in the pos prevents this.
Funny that, since a GM told me anchoring anything inside a POS forcefield, other than POS modules is an exploit.
Id have a sig, but you guys keep growling me for them
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 00:43:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Marquis Dean on 07/05/2007 00:39:10
Originally by: Codil
Originally by: Karille Honestly why does this even need fixing? What, it isn't realistic?
Our ships fold space to get where they're going while warping, so its quite possible they could land inside the shields of a starbase. Then when they exit the bubble and start to materialize in normal space they push things around and are subject to the starbase forcefield.
If you want your ships to be safe either log off in them or leave them in a station. Never in my entire time playing eve have I seen occasion to leave my ship parked at a starbase unmanned outside of a hangar.
It may be an exploit, it may not me, but i certainly don't think it needs fixing.
I think it would be more realistic, if someone warps inside a pos shield they would get trapped there till you warp or jump out.
No reason you should get out if you can't get in.
CCP should really just have a policy that nothing is an exploit and nothing can be petitioned.
I think it would be more realistic if when you get a multi-billion ton supercapital hitting a multi-billion ton POS tower at hundreds of kilometers a second, there's a massive f*ck off explosion and they both die messily.
How is anything else even slightly realistic?
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:59:00 -
[84]
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
4. yes, anchoring a large bubble in the pos prevents this.
Funny that, since a GM told me anchoring anything inside a POS forcefield, other than POS modules is an exploit.
Does this even work? Online a large bubble in a pos?
And how in the world is that going to be an exploit then?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.05.07 10:08:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Dal Thrax Cut CCP a small break. This entire thing blew up over the weekend of the games 4th Birthday.
That is not true. My initial post dates to the 13th March 2007, that is now almost 2 months. And not a single reply from the devs/gms. Not a statement that CCP is aware of it and working on something, not that it is okay to do so, not that they are not sure and thinking about it, not that it is an exploit.
Don't tell me that there was no time to think about this, don't tell me that this just boiled up during ths weekend - that is simply not true.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.07 10:08:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Malachon Draco Tactic of 'bowling' is of course an exploit, doesn't surprise me to see who is using it.
As has already been stated in other threads (and this one), Evil Thug does this.
BoB (who you seem to have much bitterness for) were doing it, but were asked not to.
After being petitioned for doing it, Evil Thug received information from GM's that POS bowling was NOT an exploit.
BoB resumed bowling.
So, if there is any GM favouritism here dear Mr Draco, it isn't on our side.
When you day it doesn't surprise you who is doing it, maybe I misunderstood, and you meant Evil Thug all along?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.05.07 10:25:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Karille Honestly why does this even need fixing?
Does reward/risk ratio says anything to you?
If you have any positive reward and zero risk, the game is broken. It goes for everything in the gameing industry. You cannot break this rule without breaking any reasonable game.
Bumping ships out of the pos with supercapitals, especially with titans, doesn't involve any risk at all (unless I am mistaken and please point me out where I am mistaken then) but gives a nice reward of either a completely fitted capital ship or a capital ship kill in case that the ship wasn't unmanned.
Reward/risk ratio is just faulty in this case, so this 'feature' needs to be changed in my opinion. Of course people will defend this mechanics, who want to loose free multi-billion ships for free? But that doesn't make it better, it just shows my point about the zero risk even more.
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Tax'station
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Posted - 2007.05.07 10:27:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Malachon Draco Tactic of 'bowling' is of course an exploit, doesn't surprise me to see who is using it.
As has already been stated in other threads (and this one), Evil Thug does this.
BoB (who you seem to have much bitterness for) were doing it, but were asked not to.
After being petitioned for doing it, Evil Thug received information from GM's that POS bowling was NOT an exploit.
BoB resumed bowling.
So, if there is any GM favouritism here dear Mr Draco, it isn't on our side.
When you day it doesn't surprise you who is doing it, maybe I misunderstood, and you meant Evil Thug all along?
A Senior GM has replied to the pettion and has stated that this is "NOT" an exploit, Bowl on.
The fact is that everyone can do the same thing. The only thing preventing a noob from doing it is; the lack of skills to fly a super Capital, the Super Capital ship itself.
It is sad, when a Corp or Alliance that is large enough to have Super Captial ship and a massive fleet to boot to have to resort to a tactic as this.
Question to all: Why is it that when you go into a sytem and camp the gates or the station, do we always complain that the hosting corp isn't coming out to fight? This is not directed at any one corp or alliance, because I know that my corp has done the same.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.07 10:48:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Avon on 07/05/2007 10:44:18
Originally by: Tax'station It is sad, when a Corp or Alliance that is large enough to have Super Captial ship and a massive fleet to boot to have to resort to a tactic as this.
I don't think they are resorting to doing it because they have to, rather they are choosing to do it because they find it fun.
If you look at it as a task entirely seperate from stealing or killing ships, or depriving people of their stuff, it probably is fun.
Personally I can see the entertainment value (especially hearing people doing it on TS), but it isn't something I would choose to do. Then again, I'm not too hot on freighter ganking either, but it is fun and profitable, and within the rules.
Just because something is not to our personal tastes does not mean it needs banning. If anything, it is a reason for doing it. There is no better way to define a "bad guy" than to see them do things which fly in the face of our personal morals. That is one of the great things about Eve, players really can assume the role of villians.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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