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Grindyll Jackdaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:08:13 -
[1] - Quote
I don't know what to do. This game answers no questions within the game itself. It does a **** poor job of explaining anything other than "I hope you figure it out". When you don't you're stuck with articles written back in 2007 with no idea if its content has remained viable.
Nothing is explained from the start. You have to ask everyone or do some google searching for a few hours for a "kind of" answer. If there was actually some kind of effort to graduate the learning curve it would be nice.
So I joined the militia. Great. Nothing is explained in the UI. Am I heading into an area of 50 million isk ships? Or is it the basic frigates? I don't know because nothing is explained. Ever.
If the developers of this game consider this game complex, I'd go to say that it's just convoluted in the attempt at complexity.
Ok, now that you know what you MAYBE want to do, you get **** blocked by the wall of boring chores you have to do before having any attempt at fun.
At this point I'm about to say **** it. It's not worth the frustration. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
861
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:12:24 -
[2] - Quote
If you joined FW, there should be plenty of assistance available in chat. Start asking there and hopefully someone will help.
The game can be very frustrating when you first play. If you don't find the thing that hooks you, that frustration causes quite a few to leave, even though the game is the greatest, once you do find they hook.
But yeah, it's not great at helping people find the experience that makes them want to subscribe.
Your frustration is well founded.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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eveyn
6
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:13:07 -
[3] - Quote
so.... what is it, exactly, that you want to do? o.O |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17615
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:15:11 -
[4] - Quote
1)Calm down, cool off then ask for help in new citizens Q&A , it's backup in the index one up from here.
2) do not open this thread again as it's about to be set ablaze.
May Bob have mercy on your soul.
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Solecist Project
32351
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:16:16 -
[5] - Quote
Hello and welcome to the forums ... I guess.
For literally everything there is, google helps, as long as you use the appropriate words. For a lot of gameplay there are youtube videos available from CCP directly.
The point is that it's fun figuring things out for oneself.
The first opportunities sufficiently introduce you to the fundamentals like flying, shooting,docking, etc ... ... though all I personally needed for that was mass clicking everything possible.
Free hint: limitting the searches to everything post 2013 will definitely help.
Edit: By the way, tens of thousands don't have your issue. Can you consider that you're just doing it wrong?
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17621
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:20:12 -
[6] - Quote
Also , f12 menu now has help videos on various topics, these are also available on CCP's YouTube channel should you prefer them there.
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
424
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:41:10 -
[7] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:I don't know what to do. This game answers no questions within the game itself. It does a **** poor job of explaining anything other than "I hope you figure it out". When you don't you're stuck with articles written back in 2007 with no idea if its content has remained viable.
Nothing is explained from the start. You have to ask everyone or do some google searching for a few hours for a "kind of" answer. If there was actually some kind of effort to graduate the learning curve it would be nice.
So I joined the militia. Great. Nothing is explained in the UI. Am I heading into an area of 50 million isk ships? Or is it the basic frigates? I don't know because nothing is explained. Ever.
If the developers of this game consider this game complex, I'd go to say that it's just convoluted in the attempt at complexity.
Ok, now that you know what you MAYBE want to do, you get **** blocked by the wall of boring chores you have to do before having any attempt at fun.
At this point I'm about to say **** it. It's not worth the frustration. You joined one of the FW militias. You get access to a "Militia" chat channel, where you can chat with anyone within your faction. You should probably ask some of your questions there. Also, if you are a new account, then you have access to the "Rookie chat:. Great place for asking all your different questions. Furthermore, you should consider joining a newbie friendly corp.
As for the questions you have listed in here, then I can say that FW is a fine place for frigates and such. You will probably not be very successful doing solo PvP to begin with, given your amount of SP and in-game knowledge. So I will advise you again to find a corp to join.
While EvE sure could still use some UI improvements, it's not nearly as bad as it has been. However, EvE is still a community-based game, so you limit yourself and your player experience if you just try to solo around, like most other MMO out there. It can still be done, but for a newbie the game becomes so much less frustrating if you play it together with other people.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2242
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:45:06 -
[8] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:
So I joined the militia. Great. Nothing is explained in the UI. Am I heading into an area of 50 million isk ships? Or is it the basic frigates? I don't know because nothing is explained. Ever.
I think part of your frustration is that you don't really "get" Eve yet, as a concept. The reason you do not know the answer to the question you've posed isn't because it is not explained - it's because it's an inherently nonsensical question. The answer is, "Simultaneously both, and neither."
There is no such delineation in the game. Ship classes are not a "leveling ladder" that you climb - they're tools that you use to perform tasks to which they are suited. Just as you don't "graduate" from a screwdriver to a hammer, "Basic frigates" or "50 million isk ships" are not an either/or thing.
There is not much to explain, with regard to the militia. There are very few special mechanics that are specific to that particular system. You've basically just joined a permanent alliance war, and are now free to shoot and be shot by the guys on the other side. That's the main thing that happened. It didn't tell you to put on your Tier 6 PvP suit and queue up for the battleground because that isn't a thing. It's not a special mode of play, it's little more than a flag.
There are some special mechanics around the complexes and capturing of systems, but they don't wildly differ from many other in-game systems.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
424
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Posted - 2016.08.23 20:52:48 -
[9] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:There is no such delineation in the game. Ship classes are not a "leveling ladder" that you climb - they're tools that you use to perform tasks to which they are suited. Just as you don't "graduate" from a screwdriver to a hammer, "Basic frigates" or "50 million isk ships" are not an either/or thing. Understanding this concept is very important.
Bigger is not better. Ships are just tools as SurrenderMonkey mentioned. Note the following points taken from the 8 Golden Rules for EvE Online:
Experience matters, not ISK or Skills
* Just because some character is just a few minutes old doesn't mean he's a newbie. Many people have alts. The reverse is also possible, people come back after very long breaks, and characters are sold. You could see year-old newbies around too. * Skills that take less than 1 day to train are short skills. Over one week is long. * You're in this game for the long haul. Don't expect to do something meaningful in the grand scheme of things in the first day of your first trial account ever. * All other things being equal (experience, skills), superior numbers more often win a fight rather than superior ship value. However, things are hardly ever equal. * Total skillpoints count doesn't matter much either, it's level of relevant skills to the current situation that does. Yes, that does mean a 2 mil SP combat-oriented newbie could badly beat up a 60 mil SP industry-oriented veteran.
Bigger is not always better
* More expensive stuff is not always better stuff. * Slightly better stuff usually costs many times more than slightly worse stuff. Choose wisely. * Tech-2 is usually cheaper and better, but harder to fit. Sometimes it's not better. Other times it's not cheaper. And occasionally, neither cheaper nor better. * There are no "solopwnmobiles" in EVE. Everything you can fly blows up if it's shot hard enough. * With enough skills and experience, ship size really doesn't matter all that much.
So don't think that just cause something is more expensive, it necessarily is better.
Anyway, everything gets so much easier if you find a corp.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
85
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:08:01 -
[10] - Quote
eheheheh
you lack of only 1 thing... ... the will to learn.
there are vets out there that don't know still the 100% of the game There are others people instead that spend their time searching for every possible solution/exploit.
learn is easy if you are willing to spend time searching info. infos are everywhere, starting from uniwiki (maybe google it and start read). Eventually find someone ingame that you are at easy to speak with and keep asking questions.
there is not knowledge for someone that isn't ready to search for it.
TL;DR you're lazy, move your a**
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Grindyll Jackdaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:10:11 -
[11] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:eheheheh you lack of only 1 thing... ... the will to learn. there are vets out there that don't know still the 100% of the game There are others people instead that spend their time searching for every possible solution/exploit. learn is easy if you are willing to spend time searching info. infos are everywhere, starting from uniwiki (maybe google it and start read). Eventually find someone ingame that you are at easy to speak with and keep asking questions. there is not knowledge for someone that isn't ready to search for it. TL;DR you're lazy, move your a**
Convolution =/= Complexity
Developers have the capacity to explain things. Instead they choose not to. I wonder what retention rates are for this game. Its ******* annoying to deal with that. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2436
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:12:59 -
[12] - Quote
bye, gl in your future endeavors
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
A wise man sums up EvE
Smoke me a Kipper...
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Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
424
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:15:33 -
[13] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote: Convolution =/= Complexity
Developers have the capacity to explain things. Instead they choose not to. I wonder what retention rates are for this game. Its ******* annoying to deal with that.
The game ain't that convoluted. And the retention rates are fine, it's just not a game for everyone.
I don't know all the questions you have, but the one you've posted in your OP don't have a real answer. So how could this non-existent information be more easily accessible?
If you ask questions that don't make sense in the context of EvE, then you will have an obvious hard time finding the answers within the UI. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
88
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:15:48 -
[14] - Quote
dude i dunno you... but for me was pretty easy at the start. info were everywhere! found a nice person ingame that teached me some things. (only basis)
from there i moved up watching videos on youtube, reading the forum (even trolling post), playing, etc. nothing very difficult.
i don't see the problem oh and i posted even a couple of questions on the Q&A of the forum.
you won't find a manual if it's what you are looking for... by chance are you an engineer? that would explain many things (no racism) |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
463
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:16:01 -
[15] - Quote
We've all come from humble beginnings, my original trial account didn't make it to subscription. I ran around doing missions and I mined in an exploration Frigate, totally clueless.
I think why I stuck this time as Lulu was because I had someone actually take me and mentor me on how stuff sort of works. They saved me from another grind of level II missions and they showed me how to probe, how to find DED sites, and escalations. The game was far more interesting sharing bookmarks with a small community I met .. and well.. here I am.
Maybe it's just not for you.
@lunettelulu7
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17630
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:20:30 -
[16] - Quote
I did try, you all saw , I tried.
Now then *Cracks knuckles*
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Solecist Project
32355
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:22:20 -
[17] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:Soel Reit wrote:eheheheh you lack of only 1 thing... ... the will to learn. there are vets out there that don't know still the 100% of the game There are others people instead that spend their time searching for every possible solution/exploit. learn is easy if you are willing to spend time searching info. infos are everywhere, starting from uniwiki (maybe google it and start read). Eventually find someone ingame that you are at easy to speak with and keep asking questions. there is not knowledge for someone that isn't ready to search for it. TL;DR you're lazy, move your a** Convolution =/= Complexity Developers have the capacity to explain things. Instead they choose not to. I wonder what retention rates are for this game. Its ******* annoying to deal with that. Excuses, because you're too low abilitied* to do what TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHERS were able to do.
Please tell Ralph I said Hi when you see him! :D
*(this just HAS to be a word lol)
That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
8 Golden Rules of EVE
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Grindyll Jackdaw
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:24:50 -
[18] - Quote
So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out. |
Maekchu
Gunpoint Diplomacy
425
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:27:51 -
[19] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out. Aight, we all tried. Can I have your stuff when you leave? Just contract it to my character.
If you want hand-holding, then you have a sea of generic free MMOs just to your liking.
o/ |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
88
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:28:15 -
[20] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.
this ^
and you are too lacking in some areas to search it by yourself Kappa 123 |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17635
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:41:55 -
[21] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out. That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to.
Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse.
On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case...
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
89
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:45:35 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out. That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to. Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse. On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case...
i choose A, 100%, no doubts on my mind
p.s. and btw using the occam's razor don't help to keep the conversation at low elo |
eveyn
6
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:54:11 -
[23] - Quote
Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out.
Intuitive Learning Curve: oooh cool. that ship looks badass! I wonder how much it will cost to fl... holy hell, it's THAT much?! How will I ever earn enou...wait. the tutorials showed me how to mine, rat, mission, and there's this annoying blinking thing on my screen tha... WOAH! a chat group? HAIGUYZ!! u wot m8?? Join your corp? Iderno =\ I don't know muc.... you'll show me the ropes?!111!? thereRropes?!!?
or.
cool ship. what do you mean "I don't have the prerequisite skills to fly this ship"? *looksit skills* ooh, I see. So to fly this muther-doo-hickey, I need X, Y, and Z skills. What about gun...oh. nm. I see it now. Looks like a game plan to me!
Well. Not to you I suppose. I was speaking in the universal sense. Also: not for nothin', but I kinda think this was bait. +/-1 to the OP if so? iderno. |
Arkoth 24
Phayder
246
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:54:58 -
[24] - Quote
Eve world is just "old school", 'cause it's kinda... old. Back in time it was normal to have no explanation on what the drek's goin' on and no guide or tutorial. People were forced to discover everything by themselves or to acquire information from others. Info was valuable. People worked hard to collect it and bring to others - sometimes just for "thanks".
Now things are quite more simple: we got a lot of already made guides and explanations almost on everything around the net, so all you need is just open any wiki and read all you need to know.
If ya wanna know what REAL troubles are, try something like THIS.
Evelopedia via Wayback Machine | Open petition against Evelopedia closure
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17637
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:56:42 -
[25] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Grindyll Jackdaw wrote:So the developers are too lacking to develop any kind of intuitive learning curve for the game? Thank you for pointing that out. That or you're too thoroughly concussed from being beaten with the wrong end of the stick to bother explaining anything to. Let's apply Occam's razor for a moment Either a) the game that's been going since 2003 and has been infamous for its complexity for years is run by incompetent devs Or b) the couple of day old newbie might be talking out his arse. On balance now , which do you honestly think is more likely the case... i choose A, 100%, no doubts on my mind p.s. and btw using the occam's razor don't help to keep the conversation at low elo Here, I'm going out of my way not to flat out call him a dumbass, still insulting him granted but not directly.
Pissing and moaning, calling the devs incompetent in general discussion is basically burning one of the easiest, most accessable avenues of learning how not to such at eve, particularly after being told so.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
91
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Posted - 2016.08.23 21:58:45 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Here, I'm going out of my way not to flat out call him a dumbass, still insulting him granted but not directly.
you just did
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17637
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Posted - 2016.08.23 22:04:01 -
[27] - Quote
Well damn.
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Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
105
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Posted - 2016.08.23 22:07:27 -
[28] - Quote
I am going ti take you at face value as a truely new, disgruntled pilot.
First advice: calm down. Second, press F12. If that doesnt give you any help please use the Q&A section, EVE Uni, or reddit. Third, hace you ever thought about what you want to do? There is a cliff to climb, not a curve. It takes time and research to be good ajd efficient at tasks in this game. Find a corp, using the handy in-game search feature for recruitment, to find a group that does similar things. The road after that is long, fun, and vicious. Even when you "figure out" someone with better understanding will cockslap you and break your toys. Welcome to New Eden.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5801
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Posted - 2016.08.23 22:10:33 -
[29] - Quote
Sadly EvE removed its own EvEPedia, glad there's a "sort of" version on my EvE fansite. Stuff is still current as of 2016.
That being said, EvE is "old school" and also a sandbox. Sandboxes are inherently made to be explored by trial and error, if you give a "guide" or "walkthrough" a sandbox gets quite spoiled imo.
Old school means, it's made for another generation of players, who to be honest, had what it takes to play those challenging games of old.
I am perma-subscribed to another 2003 sandbox MMO too, where:
1) Quest NPCs don't appear on map. You need to find them visually.
2) Even when you are in the general vicinity, they won't show if they have quests on them or not. You have to get really close.
3) They give this kind of direction: "Your stuff is below a rock somewhere in the southern portion of [continent name]", where by continent we mean some ultra-massive area you could take weeks to walk through.
4) Close to ZERO online "guides".
EVERYTHING is community knowledge, you either get to know somebody who has done the quest and kindly takes you there, or you are on your own.
EvE is easy mode.
EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17644
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Posted - 2016.08.23 22:19:57 -
[30] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
Please tell Ralph I said Hi when you see him! :D
*(this just HAS to be a word lol)
Ralph's gpu drivers are ****ed at the moment so no house calls for now, not that he's worth it.
"Abled" is the word you are looking for
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