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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.05 23:05:27 -
[1] - Quote
The current mobile tractor units are too big for frigates an destroyers so im requesting a small less powerful versions:
1) Volume: 25-50 m3
2) tractor range (max): 50km
3) Capacity: 1500 m3
4) most other stats similar or shaved a bit if deemd OP.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17915
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Posted - 2016.09.05 23:35:58 -
[2] - Quote
You're in a frigate ... Just fly out and get it.
=]|[=
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
821
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Posted - 2016.09.05 23:44:22 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:You're in a frigate ... Just fly out and get it.
Basically. ye old salvage cata days....good times lol.
Is level 1 and 2 even worth this? Even when loot/salvage was good these were blitzers for standings to shoot to level 3 BC work to rush to level 4 properly and start ringing up some lp such as you can low levels. Blitz to storyline, do it again.
Todays loot and salvage...man even 4's a mere shadow of their former glory. 1 and 2 has to suck massively I am thinking. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
831
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Posted - 2016.09.05 23:48:42 -
[4] - Quote
Only level 4 missions are worth salvaging and looting, so unless this would be used to ded sites, I don't see any reason to add this.
Also as already stated, a frigate is more than fast enough to fly to the wreck / can and loot... |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
168
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Posted - 2016.09.06 11:59:28 -
[5] - Quote
Use a cargo expander --> Problem solved
-1 |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.06 20:36:08 -
[6] - Quote
I recently ran an L2 mission and the loot total not including salvage was around 4 million thus it would have paid for the mini tractor unit (since one would expect it to cost quite a bit less) (admit that that much ISK from an L2 is rare but i had to pass on a lot of loot simply because flying around to pick it up would have taken so long).
Also, all the respondents so far are probably bittervets by now sitting on billions that have long forgot how it was to be dirt poor. I recently started a new acct and didnt give them any ISK to work with, ground up, no assistance. I found myself wanting that loot in a bad way since at first you are spending a lot and making practically nothing form bounties, completion or LP.
Also, Tabyll Altol, exactly what is a cargo expander going to do for me, i need the items tractored making my cargo hold bigger solves exactly nothing.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3025
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Posted - 2016.09.06 21:11:54 -
[7] - Quote
but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3
Citadel worm hole tax
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1402
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Posted - 2016.09.06 23:23:15 -
[8] - Quote
How about we ask nicely if we could get a boat that would be able to salvage and tractor wrecks in very quickly?
Maybe that boat would get a nice large cargo hold, a range bonus for tractors and salvagers and even lots of high slots.
That would be one cool boat.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2671
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Posted - 2016.09.07 01:25:56 -
[9] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:The current mobile tractor units are too big for frigates an destroyers so im requesting a small less powerful versions:
1) Volume: 25-50 m3
2) tractor range (max): 50km
3) Capacity: 1500 m3
4) most other stats similar or shaved a bit if deemd OP.
Destroyers already have very large cargo bays.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2671
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Posted - 2016.09.07 01:27:02 -
[10] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:How about we ask nicely if we could get a boat that would be able to salvage and tractor wrecks in very quickly?
Maybe that boat would get a nice large cargo hold, a range bonus for tractors and salvagers and even lots of high slots.
That would be one cool boat.
If only there was such a ship... We could call it an Awesome Tractor Beam Mobile. Or a Noctis?
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1402
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Posted - 2016.09.07 07:10:13 -
[11] - Quote
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1016
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Posted - 2016.09.07 08:03:55 -
[12] - Quote
CCP better come up with a way better name for it, though. No offense Diomedes, but Noctis just sounds like some hideously vile creature spawned only from the deepest, dankest, smelliest trash-festering **** pit from hell. Hardly the loot-scooping money maker you and elitetwo are describing.
A "Noctis"? No one's gonna want to fly that.
Jokes aside, the very same argument was raised several times before when MTU's were first introduced. And for the most part, no big surprise here, I saw the very same counterpoints returned...and I still find their reasoning more sound and on point. Most L1-2 aren't even worth your time even if you had an MTU to throw out there despite the 100-125 cubic meter bar, let alone one that costs less cargo but had weaker stats to compensate. I'd have to agree with others now and those before that such an idea is rather pointless. It's almost pointless for a BS to bring one on quite a few L4's for that matter. You're better off blitzing the unholy crap out of an L1 and rushing back to your agent to snatch another op than worry about shooting and scooping.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:00:46 -
[13] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3
Okay i missed that but is it okay to make a hold so big on small ships. I would say it probably isnt. Making the hold bigger effects other parts of the game because you have increased absolute hold which probably should remain limited.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:02:47 -
[14] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:How about we ask nicely if we could get a boat that would be able to salvage and tractor wrecks in very quickly?
Maybe that boat would get a nice large cargo hold, a range bonus for tractors and salvagers and even lots of high slots.
That would be one cool boat.
By the same logic we get rid of MTUs altogether because you can use a noctis to tractor and loot for any ship.......
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:05:07 -
[15] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:elitatwo wrote:How about we ask nicely if we could get a boat that would be able to salvage and tractor wrecks in very quickly?
Maybe that boat would get a nice large cargo hold, a range bonus for tractors and salvagers and even lots of high slots.
That would be one cool boat. If only there was such a ship... We could call it an Awesome Tractor Beam Mobile. Or a Noctis?
Letting other people think for you and later finding out it was a stupid basis for logic is bad. MTUs are offered to larger vessels as well as the noctis which means that CCP has already made the decision that having both available does not invalidate the MTU as a good addition to the game.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1866
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:11:35 -
[16] - Quote
Obviously the noctis is better, it's tractor speed is way faster albeit with lower lock ranges and can tractor multiple items
The mtu I agree could be a little smaller. Though I believe one exists that is 50 or 75 and that's the magpie tractor
Art of Explosions
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:15:09 -
[17] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:CCP better come up with a way better name for it, though. No offense Diomedes, but Noctis just sounds like some hideously vile creature spawned only from the deepest, dankest, smelliest trash-festering **** pit from hell. Hardly the loot-scooping money maker you and elitetwo are describing. A "Noctis"? No one's gonna want to fly that. Jokes aside, the very same argument was raised several times before when MTU's were first introduced. And for the most part, no big surprise here, I saw the very same counterpoints returned...and I still find their reasoning more sound and on point. Most L1-2 aren't even worth your time even if you had an MTU to throw out there despite the 100-125 cubic meter bar, let alone one that costs less cargo but had weaker stats to compensate. I'd have to agree with others now and those before that such an idea is rather pointless. It's almost pointless for a BS to bring one on quite a few L4's for that matter. You're better off blitzing the unholy crap out of an L1 and rushing back to your agent to snatch another op than worry about shooting and scooping.
Your base assumption is flawed. I could do other things in EVE and make a much bigger ISK/HR return than even running L4s, yet the MTU is here and is often used for running L3s and L4s. We dont all play the game the same way for a reason, we are not all the same people. Those that do choose to run L4s only a very limited number will truly maximize their ISK/HR most will settle for much less return because it is easier.
YOU, and others, like ISK/HR over other options and it is a valid way to play the game.
I, and not a few others, like to loot just because looting is fun for us but running all over a battle field looting is tedious even to me, hence my request for a mini MTU (and as i mentioned in another post the MTU and the Noctis live side by side for other ships so the existence of the MTU doesnt invalidate CCPs opinion that MTUs and the Noctis can play side by side).
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:17:17 -
[18] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Obviously the noctis is better, it's tractor speed is way faster albeit with lower lock ranges and can tractor multiple items
The mtu I agree could be a little smaller. Though I believe one exists that is 50 or 75 and that's the magpie tractor
Which is expensive as hell and for a newbro that is just the opposite of what he would want. He wants a small, cheaper MTU.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1866
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:20:14 -
[19] - Quote
No, he would want the smaller one regardless of how expensive it is. Whether he gets it or not would be the question
Instead, hypothetical new bro will use another method in the meantime to collect his loot, or use his brain and do some research and not bother looting at all.
What you're asking for already exists and because of the balance factor (price and rarity) is not in your favour you decide it needs to change.
Art of Explosions
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
|
Posted - 2016.09.13 17:21:09 -
[20] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:Use a cargo expander --> Problem solved
-1
Now i have to lose a mod slot to have an MTU when other larger ships do not, no thank you. In particular armor tanked ships would be hurt a lot by this as lows are where their tank AND damage mods fit.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1866
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:27:58 -
[21] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:Use a cargo expander --> Problem solved
-1 Now i have to lose a mod slot to have an MTU when other larger ships do not, no thank you. In particular armor tanked ships would be hurt a lot by this as lows are where their tank AND damage mods fit.
Oh noes I have to use a different ship to do something better than the one I'm currently in. That's not one of the core mechanics of eve at all, ccplease nerf
Art of Explosions
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:29:28 -
[22] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:No, he would want the smaller one regardless of how expensive it is. Whether he gets it or not would be the question
Instead, hypothetical new bro will use another method in the meantime to collect his loot, or use his brain and do some research and not bother looting at all.
What you're asking for already exists and because of the balance factor (price and rarity) is not in your favour you decide it needs to change.
By your logic then making base frigates cost twice what battleships cost is okay and newbros just have to suck it up. There is a scaling of ISK cost for most, if not all items for a reason, you tend to have less income at lower levels when flying T1 hulls, then when you're flying around in a TITAN.
Cheap T1 frigate or Destroyer and cheap small MTU.
Semi to full bling GOLEM and a larger more expensive MTU.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3096
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:34:19 -
[23] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3 Okay i missed that but is it okay to make a hold so big on small ships. I would say it probably isnt. Making the hold bigger effects other parts of the game because you have increased absolute hold which probably should remain limited.
is this guy just dumb?
the cargo expandor is a mod you can put on your ship
BLOPS Hauler
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:39:44 -
[24] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:Use a cargo expander --> Problem solved
-1 Now i have to lose a mod slot to have an MTU when other larger ships do not, no thank you. In particular armor tanked ships would be hurt a lot by this as lows are where their tank AND damage mods fit. Oh noes I have to use a different ship to do something better than the one I'm currently in. That's not one of the core mechanics of eve at all, ccplease nerf
Is the core concept of EVE that one class of vessels must give something up that other ships get and get nothing in return because that doesnt seem a core EVE value to me.
If i fly a golem i can hit any npc frigate i know of even if it is point blank range orbiting me but it could take several volleys for me to kill it. On the other hand a turret boat might be able to kill off two of the same frigate in one volley but has to deal with the possibility that a frigate can get under his guns at which point he can do zero damage to the frigate with his main weapon.
example assumes only the trade off between main weapons both probably will have light or medium drones to kill frigates but that doesnt make the point i was trying to make here.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 17:42:29 -
[25] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3 Okay i missed that but is it okay to make a hold so big on small ships. I would say it probably isnt. Making the hold bigger effects other parts of the game because you have increased absolute hold which probably should remain limited. is this guy just dumb? the cargo expandor is a mod you can put on your ship
Are you an idiot ?
Yes, you can put a cargo expander on any ship but other ships with larger holds dont have to give up a mod slot for a tractor unit, if they did than the cargo expander option would be equal to all ships regardless of size and i would have no argument for a smaller MTU.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1868
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:00:03 -
[26] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:No, he would want the smaller one regardless of how expensive it is. Whether he gets it or not would be the question
Instead, hypothetical new bro will use another method in the meantime to collect his loot, or use his brain and do some research and not bother looting at all.
What you're asking for already exists and because of the balance factor (price and rarity) is not in your favour you decide it needs to change. By your logic then making base frigates cost twice what battleships cost is okay and newbros just have to suck it up. There is a scaling of ISK cost for most, if not all items for a reason, you tend to have less income at lower levels when flying T1 hulls, then when you're flying around in a TITAN. Cheap T1 frigate or Destroyer and cheap small MTU. Semi to full bling GOLEM and a larger more expensive MTU.
Don't put words in my mouth, it's very rude.
Straw man is an extremely frowned upon debating tactic and every time you start a post with " by your logic " it's painfully obvious that's what you're doing
The mtu is a standard object with some variations, if you feel the need to have something that does something similar but needs a few tweaks for it to work, you have options with certain setbacks
Making frigates cost twice as much as battleships would make absolutely no difference in this case as this is just arbitrary number shifting. People would just start off using the next cheapest thing, destroyers and if you made it so the starting ship was battleships that cost 200mil, obviously nobody would be able to afford this and prices will come down.
Market value for the magpie is a reflection on the rarity and desirability of the attributes. Of course people want smaller mtu because it allows more room for loot, however to balance the improvement you're getting you have to pay more for it.
Art of Explosions
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3096
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:05:32 -
[27] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3 Okay i missed that but is it okay to make a hold so big on small ships. I would say it probably isnt. Making the hold bigger effects other parts of the game because you have increased absolute hold which probably should remain limited. is this guy just dumb? the cargo expandor is a mod you can put on your ship Are you an idiot ? Yes, you can put a cargo expander on any ship but other ships with larger holds dont have to give up a mod slot for a tractor unit, if they did than the cargo expander option would be equal to all ships regardless of size and i would have no argument for a smaller MTU.
your right and its just so unfair that battleships can just hold more in general or that caps can even hold full ships ccp should really look at this discrepancy
BLOPS Hauler
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:06:26 -
[28] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:No, he would want the smaller one regardless of how expensive it is. Whether he gets it or not would be the question
Instead, hypothetical new bro will use another method in the meantime to collect his loot, or use his brain and do some research and not bother looting at all.
What you're asking for already exists and because of the balance factor (price and rarity) is not in your favour you decide it needs to change. By your logic then making base frigates cost twice what battleships cost is okay and newbros just have to suck it up. There is a scaling of ISK cost for most, if not all items for a reason, you tend to have less income at lower levels when flying T1 hulls, then when you're flying around in a TITAN. Cheap T1 frigate or Destroyer and cheap small MTU. Semi to full bling GOLEM and a larger more expensive MTU. Don't put words in my mouth, it's very rude. Straw man is an extremely frowned upon debating tactic and every time you start a post with " by your logic " it's painfully obvious that's what you're doing The mtu is a standard object with some variations, if you feel the need to have something that does something similar but needs a few tweaks for it to work, you have options with certain setbacks Making frigates cost twice as much as battleships would make absolutely no difference in this case as this is just arbitrary number shifting. People would just start off using the next cheapest thing, destroyers and if you made it so the starting ship was battleships that cost 200mil, obviously nobody would be able to afford this and prices will come down. Market value for the magpie is a reflection on the rarity and desirability of the attributes. Of course people want smaller mtu because it allows more room for loot, however to balance the improvement you're getting you have to pay more for it.
Should newbros pay more for officer fit mods over the standard stuff, absolutely. Should newbros pay more for a basic item like an MTU than people sitting on billions or trillions of isk, not even sorta okay.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
577
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:11:20 -
[29] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but you would actually lose isk.....
the time it takes you to loot the site would be better spent getting started on the next mission to get standings to get worth while missions
the cargo expander is so you can hold the tractor unit... could you not put that together? basicly you don't need a smaller item if you can just get a bigger hold. it will give you more than 100m3 Okay i missed that but is it okay to make a hold so big on small ships. I would say it probably isnt. Making the hold bigger effects other parts of the game because you have increased absolute hold which probably should remain limited. is this guy just dumb? the cargo expandor is a mod you can put on your ship Are you an idiot ? Yes, you can put a cargo expander on any ship but other ships with larger holds dont have to give up a mod slot for a tractor unit, if they did than the cargo expander option would be equal to all ships regardless of size and i would have no argument for a smaller MTU. your right and its just so unfair that battleships can just hold more in general or that caps can even hold full ships ccp should really look at this discrepancy
Nowhere in my request does it say that frigates and destroyers should hold more, that was someone else's idea and one that i stated was a dubious suggestion with most probably negative outcomes.
This simply puts a smaller unit into smaller ships and bigger units into bigger ships, the same balancing is done for weapons, my T1 frigate has small projectile turrets on it and larger ships have larger projectile turrets. I dont and should not expect my T1 turrets to out damage T1 battleship turrents and i dont. But the size of my T1 frigate turrets is the RIGHT SIZE for my frigate and a smaller MTU would be the right size as well.
So are things so unfair in its current state, they sure are and yes CCP should look into this discrepancy.....sighs....
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2683
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Posted - 2016.09.13 18:22:53 -
[30] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:Use a cargo expander --> Problem solved
-1 Now i have to lose a mod slot to have an MTU when other larger ships do not, no thank you. In particular armor tanked ships would be hurt a lot by this as lows are where their tank AND damage mods fit. I'm shocked to learn that there are some drawbacks to flying a small, fast, agile ship. News at 11!
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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