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Lugh Crow-Slave
3060
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:41:02 -
[91] - Quote
.... i want a facton freighter.... O.o could you imagin what a blood raider freighter would look like O>O or a sansha god yes give me my reaver freighter
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
5
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:42:41 -
[92] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it.
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Troll confirmed!
Your request: 30-40% more EHP, 20% more agility
Base Fernrir, max cargo: 179 EHP, 36s align time Fenrir, 2 Interts, 1 Bulkh: 275 EHP, 25s align time ... (+53% EHP, -30% align time)
Even better than your request. Use tech I to get it down to your lower requirement.
Done. ****** confirmed. Having increased/changed base stats means that you can still add rigs to augment or focus the ship further. How is this difficult to understand? Do you actually read what you write? In your OP you asked for 30-40% more EHP and 20% more agility. I showed you that you can get even more than that. Now you say you want even 40 % more than the +50% EHP? Please write down some real numbers that you want, not just some vague +40% that is already there. basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
JF has 80% more base EHP, so no that is not what I want.
I WOULD like a freighter that doesn't cost 6 times the price of a normal one for an option I don't need.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3060
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:44:09 -
[94] - Quote
then use an ORCA!
WHY ARE WE YELLING NOW
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:44:33 -
[95] - Quote
Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it.
I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive? |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:45:18 -
[96] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:then use an ORCA!
WHY ARE WE YELLING NOW
Because it's ****. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3060
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:48:01 -
[97] - Quote
140km cargo 454k tank
why is that ****?????
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 08:48:55 -
[98] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:140km cargo 454k tank
why is that ****?????
Show us one that has that.
Here is where you realise, to your own horror, that you don't have a clue on what you're talking about. |
Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
5
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:14:14 -
[99] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
JF has 80% more base EHP, so no that is not what I want.
I WOULD like a freighter that doesn't cost 6 times the price of a normal one for an option I don't need.
Base Fernrir, max cargo: 179 EHP, 36s align time Fenrir, 2 Interts, 1 Bulkh: 275 EHP, 25s align time Fenrir, 1 Inert, 2 Bulk, 313 EHP, 322s align time Base Nomad, max cargo: 414k EHP, 25s align time Noma, 2 Inerts, 1 Bulk: 465 EHP, 18 s align time Nomad, 1 Inert, 2 Bulk: 529k EHP, 22s align time
So now, please give us numbers that you want for your dream boat. Do you know what numbers are? |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 09:30:48 -
[100] - Quote
Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:
JF has 80% more base EHP, so no that is not what I want.
I WOULD like a freighter that doesn't cost 6 times the price of a normal one for an option I don't need.
Base Fernrir, max cargo: 179 EHP, 36s align timeFenrir, 2 Interts, 1 Bulkh: 275 EHP, 25s align timeFenrir, 1 Inert, 2 Bulk, 313 EHP, 322s align timeBase Nomad, max cargo: 414k EHP, 25s align timeNoma, 2 Inerts, 1 Bulk: 465 EHP, 18 s align timeNomad, 1 Inert, 2 Bulk: 529k EHP, 22s align timeSo now, please give us numbers that you want for your dream boat. Do you know what numbers are?
Funnily enough, your numbers are wrong. a Max cargo nomad doesn't have 414k, it has 320k EHP. A 1 bulkhead Nomad has 494k, not 465 and a 2 bulkhead one has 562k, not 529.
Either way, as I stated a JF has 80% more base EHP compared to a normal freighter which is correct. So JF levels of EHP isn't what I asked for. Also a Nomad with 1 bulkhead gets 146K cargo, with 2 bulkheads that drops to 130K while the ship costs.... 7 bil.
So a Nomad doesn't have the cargo we're looking for (it's way too close to a DST to be logical) and is WAY to expensive to be used as a generic hauler because it has options that aren't needed for that. Its increased price makes it an obvious gank target in and of itself. How often does this need explaining?
What I'm looking for is a new freighter that has 20% more agility and speed (with slightly increased warp speed) compared to a standard one and 40% more EHP compared to a normal freighter, while having 250K base cargo. Which can then be augmented using modules just like normal freighters. I'm sure you can do the math on that, it's not very difficult.
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Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
5
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Posted - 2016.09.10 10:09:24 -
[101] - Quote
You realize that EHP depend on skills and assumed damage profile (even though damage profile makes little differrnce for hull tanking), so my numbers might be different from your numbers, but are both correct? And you still failed to produce the numbers you actually want.
So basically you want a JF without the Jumpdrive for 1B ISK? Just look at the prices in Eve in general. A mod that is 20% better than another costs nit 20% more, but at least 400% more. So if you want to have a ship which is way better (30-40% and 20%) such a ship would cost 400% more than a freighter. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
7
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Posted - 2016.09.10 10:15:25 -
[102] - Quote
Zerzzes Markarian wrote:You realize that EHP depend on skills and assumed damage profile (even though damage profile makes little differrnce for hull tanking), so my numbers might be different from your numbers, but are both correct? And you still failed to produce the numbers you actually want.
So basically you want a JF without the Jumpdrive for 1B ISK? Just look at the prices in Eve in general. A mod that is 20% better than another costs nit 20% more, but at least 400% more. So if you want to have a ship which is way better (30-40% and 20%) such a ship would cost 400% more than a freighter.
That's funny, because the numbers you stated for the Fenrir were right on par. So it has nothing to do with damage profiles and skills, it has to do with you getting it wrong. Especially the 414k EHP one, explain how that happened through skills and damage profiles.
On the "better" part, you conveniently "forget" to mention that is has less than half a freighter's cargo space. Something also "forgot" to do with your numbers listing. It's almost as if you don't have any idea on cargo ships in general or freighters in particular. So it's not better at all, it simply has stats upped and lowered. 50+ % less cargo space but 20% increased agility and 30-40% increased EHP. Sounds like it's balanced just fine albeit a different balance. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2680
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:25:31 -
[103] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive?
If I played in High Security space (I don't) and there were lots of people who wanted to kill me (there are), then yes, I would run Level 4 missions in a Widow. Being able to avoid a gate camp or someone trying to otherwise kill your ship by jumping to a low sec cyno is a very nice option. And that is precisely why the JF is a good ship for high sec, because it always has an escape option that your enemy cannot really counter. If you cannot understand this, I cannot help you.
I routinely haul stuff through High Security space. Depending on what I am hauling I use an Interceptor, Blockade Runner, DST, or Jump Freighter. Why those ships? Because they all have the ability to completely avoid being killed unless I majorly screw up. Anything else is frankly just silly.
In this game there is no ship that can out tank everyone who might want to kill you. They'll just bring more. Unless you can bring more friends than they can, or better friends than they can, you have to avoid them to survive. The key thing is always to pay attention and not get caught in the first place. That's true in almost every situation. Everyone in Eve should know this...
And that's why we think you are being obtuse, OP.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:28:32 -
[104] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive?
a widow doesn't have 80% more tank than a raven but if it did then yeah i use the hell out of it for more than just missions
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:30:30 -
[105] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive? If I played in High Security space (I don't) and there were lots of people who wanted to kill me (there are), then yes, I would run Level 4 missions in a Widow. Being able to avoid a gate camp or someone trying to otherwise kill your ship by jumping to a low sec cyno is a very nice option. And that is precisely why the JF is a good ship for high sec, because it always has an escape option that your enemy cannot really counter. If you cannot understand this, I cannot help you. I routinely haul stuff through High Security space. Depending on what I am hauling I use an Interceptor, Blockade Runner, DST, or Jump Freighter. Why those ships? Because they all have the ability to completely avoid being killed unless I majorly screw up. Anything else is frankly just silly. In this game there is no ship that can out tank everyone who might want to kill you. They'll just bring more. Unless you can bring more friends than they can, or better friends than they can, you have to avoid them to survive. The key thing is always to pay attention and not get caught in the first place. That's true in almost every situation. Everyone in Eve should know this... And that's why we think you are being obtuse, OP.
But what if flying the Widow is the exact reason ppl wanted to kill you, being overpriced for what you're using it for.
If you discount the idiots who put 3+ bil value in cargo (which they can do in any ship) The REASON JF get ganked is "lol, someone just lost 8 bil" so the ship itself is the magnet, not necessarily its cargo. How is this so difficult to understand?
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:32:31 -
[106] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive? a widow doesn't have 80% more tank than a raven but if it did then yeah i use the hell out of it for more than just missions
At 6 times the price? Also, all you can use it for is missions just like ho a freighter is limited to one role. |
Zerzzes Markarian
Andraste.
5
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:44:54 -
[107] - Quote
Dude, you still refuse to give some concrete numbers. So how many EHP do you want when you fly your 'Pelletie-Edition' Freighter after skills and fitting? What align time do you think of? If you want a ship that is way better (and in eve 20-40% is way better), you have to make it massively more expensive, or give it otherwise a nerf that hurts. And trading even more cargo space for EHP is not balanced.
BTW, did you just create this alt a few days ago to make this troll post? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2680
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:51:24 -
[108] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive? If I played in High Security space (I don't) and there were lots of people who wanted to kill me (there are), then yes, I would run Level 4 missions in a Widow. Being able to avoid a gate camp or someone trying to otherwise kill your ship by jumping to a low sec cyno is a very nice option. And that is precisely why the JF is a good ship for high sec, because it always has an escape option that your enemy cannot really counter. If you cannot understand this, I cannot help you. I routinely haul stuff through High Security space. Depending on what I am hauling I use an Interceptor, Blockade Runner, DST, or Jump Freighter. Why those ships? Because they all have the ability to completely avoid being killed unless I majorly screw up. Anything else is frankly just silly. In this game there is no ship that can out tank everyone who might want to kill you. They'll just bring more. Unless you can bring more friends than they can, or better friends than they can, you have to avoid them to survive. The key thing is always to pay attention and not get caught in the first place. That's true in almost every situation. Everyone in Eve should know this... And that's why we think you are being obtuse, OP. But what if flying the Widow is the exact reason ppl wanted to kill you, being overpriced for what you're using it for. If you discount the idiots who put 3+ bil value in cargo (which they can do in any ship) The REASON JF get ganked is "lol, someone just lost 8 bil" so the ship itself is the magnet, not necessarily its cargo. How is this so difficult to understand?
Once again, you are missing the point completely - the reason that JF get ganked in High Sec is not because the ship itself is the magnet - it's because the pilots are too lazy or stupid to have an exit cyno. With a proper understanding of time and space, you can be effectively immune to high sec ganking if you fly a JF. It is literally the most overpowered ship you can fly in High Security space and you are saying, "No, I don't want that."
You have to understand that in Eve there are plenty of people who want to kill you just because they can, not because it is a good idea, or profitable, or whatever. I have a friend who sits on the FD-MLJ/PF-346 gate all day long killing everything that he can catch. Why? Because he can. I've seen him bubble up for what he knows are empty rookie ships - the bubble and his ammo cost way more than the ship he is killing - but he kills them anyway, just because he can. I've seen him kill and pod the same stubborn pilot 50+ times in one day. That same mentality thrives all over New Eden - there are some people who just want to **** in your Cheerios. Unless you can kill them first, you just have to avoid them.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2680
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Posted - 2016.09.10 11:56:51 -
[109] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Zerzzes Markarian wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: basically he wants JF stats at freighter cost
Yep, but doesn't understand it. I'll ask you the question as well. Does it make sense to do lvl 4 mission in high sec using costly Widow instead of a Raven just because it has a jump drive? a widow doesn't have 80% more tank than a raven but if it did then yeah i use the hell out of it for more than just missions At 6 times the price? Also, all you can use it for is missions just like ho a freighter is limited to one role.
If a Widow had 80% more tank than a Raven, I could use it to easily kill war target mission runners (hint, I can do this now with the current Widow, I just don't PVP in High Sec). If the war targets ever, by some miracle, got enough people to actually pose a threat to me, I could jump out to my low sec cyno and laugh at them. Then come back and ambush them some more. The ability to completely avoid fights you don't want is incredibly powerful in this game.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:03:05 -
[110] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote: If a Widow had 80% more tank than a Raven, I could use it to easily kill war target mission runners (hint, I can do this now with the current Widow, I just don't PVP in High Sec). If the war targets ever, by some miracle, got enough people to actually pose a threat to me, I could jump out to my low sec cyno and laugh at them. Then come back and ambush them some more. The ability to completely avoid fights you don't want is incredibly powerful in this game.
don't forget about the buff to the ECM burst you can get nearly 40 str at 30km so you can break almost any tackle they have on you to make your jump
BLOPS Hauler
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:09:49 -
[111] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Once again, you are missing the point completely - the reason that JF get ganked in High Sec is not because the ship itself is the magnet - it's because the pilots are too lazy or stupid to have an exit cyno. With a proper understanding of time and space, you can be effectively immune to high sec ganking if you fly a JF. It is literally the most overpowered ship you can fly in High Security space and you are saying, "No, I don't want that."
You have to understand that in Eve there are plenty of people who want to kill you just because they can, not because it is a good idea, or profitable, or whatever. I have a friend who sits on the FD-MLJ/PF-346 gate all day long killing everything that he can catch. Why? Because he can. I've seen him bubble up for what he knows are empty rookie ships - the bubble and his ammo cost way more than the ship he is killing - but he kills them anyway, just because he can. I've seen him kill and pod the same stubborn pilot 50+ times in one day. That same mentality thrives all over New Eden - there are some people who just want to **** in your Cheerios. Unless you can kill them first, you just have to avoid them.
Lets get one thing straight. I solo pvped, did piracy, mission busted, can flipped, ganked and did fleet pvp and whatnot long before your character was created and have been doing it ever since.
I've never stated that adding some EHP would magically save a ship because that is dumb as ****. However, ganking is just all to easy and cheap given how empty freighters and JF get ganked for lulz because ganking is (as I stated earlier) the epitome of risk averse game play, it's pvp for carebears. Meaning that adding a bit of HP to freighter to compensate for a loss of cargo hold makes good sense.
JF get ganged because simply because they're JF because the cost/loss is so high. If they get ganked for having silly cargo onboard then so be it. |
Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:12:09 -
[112] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:If a Widow had 80% more tank than a Raven, I could use it to easily kill war target mission runners (hint, I can do this now with the current Widow, I just don't PVP in High Sec). If the war targets ever, by some miracle, got enough people to actually pose a threat to me, I could jump out to my low sec cyno and laugh at them. Then come back and ambush them some more. The ability to completely avoid fights you don't want is incredibly powerful in this game.
Ok you're obviously not as intelligent as you think you are, should probably ask Bliss about that.
The Widow example is simply about having a jump option that makes the ship more expensive than it needs to be, just like a JF in high sec. Hence the "can only use it for one thing like a freighter". Smart people would get that hint.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:don't forget about the buff to the ECM burst you can get nearly 40 str at 40km so you can break almost any tackle they have on you to make your jump
Same here. Stop being dumb. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:12:57 -
[113] - Quote
again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen
BLOPS Hauler
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:14:10 -
[114] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:don't forget about the buff to the ECM burst you can get nearly 40 str at 40km so you can break almost any tackle they have on you to make your jump Same here. Stop being dumb.
are you sir insinuating that my widow can not get such awesome power?
BLOPS Hauler
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:14:55 -
[115] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen
According to your logic we should give freighters 1 HP, apparently it matters not. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:16:43 -
[116] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:
But what if flying the Widow is the exact reason ppl wanted to kill you, being overpriced for what you're using it for.
If you discount the idiots who put 3+ bil value in cargo (which they can do in any ship) The REASON JF get ganked is "lol, someone just lost 8 bil" so the ship itself is the magnet, not necessarily its cargo. How is this so difficult to understand?
ima let you in on a secret if you get caught doing something dumb in a widow no matter what space you are in there are ppl who will want it dead just cuz its a widow. how do i know? because i have hunted blops because it always feels good to kill a slippery ship
EDIT:
also its not "he just lost 8bill lul" its look at him rage over loosing 8bill gankers are after the reaction more than anything
BLOPS Hauler
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:18:16 -
[117] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen According to your logic we should give freighters 1 HP, apparently it matters not.
i'm not sure that follows the tank on a freighter doesn't discourage ganking but it does allow your fleet to help save you with links/rr and the tank current freighters have is more than enough for that. It's just for some reason ppl think freighters should be the only capital that doesn't need a support fleet
BLOPS Hauler
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:20:25 -
[118] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen According to your logic we should give freighters 1 HP, apparently it matters not. i'm not sure that follows the tank on a freighter doesn't discourage ganking but it does allow your fleet to help save you with links/rr and the tank current freighters have is more than enough for that. It's just for some reason ppl think freighters should be the only capital that doesn't need a support fleet
Do you even believe the nonsense you type?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3071
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:21:38 -
[119] - Quote
Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen According to your logic we should give freighters 1 HP, apparently it matters not. i'm not sure that follows the tank on a freighter doesn't discourage ganking but it does allow your fleet to help save you with links/rr and the tank current freighters have is more than enough for that. It's just for some reason ppl think freighters should be the only capital that doesn't need a support fleet Do you even believe the nonsense you type?
what is nonsense about it?
BLOPS Hauler
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Vincent Pelletier
Pelletier Imports and Exports
10
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Posted - 2016.09.10 12:27:56 -
[120] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Vincent Pelletier wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again raising the cost to gank is not going to make it no longer worth the lulz if anything killing tanked obs generates even more lulz than a fully loaded fen According to your logic we should give freighters 1 HP, apparently it matters not. i'm not sure that follows the tank on a freighter doesn't discourage ganking but it does allow your fleet to help save you with links/rr and the tank current freighters have is more than enough for that. It's just for some reason ppl think freighters should be the only capital that doesn't need a support fleet Do you even believe the nonsense you type? what is nonsense about it?
Because it makes no sense in the environment the ship is used in.
Also I had a quick look at your losses and that of your alt Tarris. You should probably stop lecturing ppl on pvp, fitting and game mechanics.
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