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theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.17 17:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: theforge on 17/03/2007 17:02:17
Edited by: theforge on 17/03/2007 16:57:35
This thread will run for 1 week. The top 3 answers will get 10 million in their wallet at the end of the week. I encourage all of you to build on previous answers - also that is valuable!
My name is Theforge, I am a large capital component producer (EVE's largest). I now want to strengthen my business in two ways:
(a) add a capital ship production line of 24 BPOs (each freighter, dread and carrier twice)
(b) sell my components also at Jita (now at Inaro - 5 jumps to Jita)
I have questions on both (a) and (b)
On (a) my question is which region is best suited for this production? I am looking for a region where
- demand for 3rd party capital ships is strong & durable and...
- capital ship prices are good (e.g., dread above 2,000mln, carrier above 1,000 mln, freighters above 1,000mln)
- minerals supply is abundant
On (b) my question is how to arrange the transport in a time-efficient and low-risk way.
- The first issue is that I produce 500 components per day that have to be transported over 5 jumps to Jita (and - say - 15 jumps to the cap ship place). Courier missions allow only 120,000m3 - which means I would have to set 50 runs per day - which is too much hassle
- The second issue is on trust with a courier firm; how can I construct a way of working with them providing them with 500 x 7mln = 3,5bln ISK of items each day?
- The thrid issue is courier price. What is the lowest price I could expect for an extremely regular 5 million m3 per day set of runs over 5 jumps inaro-Jita and (later) around 15 jumps from Inaro to the cap ship production location
Lets go! |
TiggerTime
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2007.03.17 20:48:00 -
[2]
we all know ICSC is the largest cap builders in the game
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theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.18 05:55:00 -
[3]
3 times 10 million still for grabs
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Dawnus Eveus
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Posted - 2007.03.18 07:31:00 -
[4]
On (1) my question is which region is best suited for this production? I am looking for a region where
- demand for 3rd party capital ships is strong & durable and...
- capital ship prices are good (e.g., dread above 2,000mln, carrier above 1,000 mln, freighters above 1,000mln)
- minerals supply is abundant
Check out Avair, Jumpable into IAC space and would be great for minerals and demand. Also near Jita only 15 Jumps or so.
On (2) my question is how to arrange the transport in a time-efficient and low-risk way.
2.1 The first issue is that I produce 500 components per day that have to be transported over 5 jumps to Jita (and - say - 15 jumps to the cap ship place). Courier missions allow only 120,000m3 - which means I would have to set 50 runs per day - which is too much hassle
2.2 The second issue is on trust with a courier firm; how can I construct a way of working with them providing them with 500 x 7mln = 3,5bln ISK of items each day?
2.3 The third issue is courier price. What is the lowest price I could expect for an extremely regular 5 million m3 per day set of runs over 5 jumps inaro-Jita and (later) around 15 jumps from Inaro to the cap ship production location
This one is easy... Just take a 3.5b deposit from them and as you work together slowly refund the deposit. if they ever rip you then you are covered.. Also you are looking at about 7 - 8 Runs with a Friegher. So I would guess about 10m per Haul.
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Titax
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Posted - 2007.03.18 07:32:00 -
[5]
Mean to post on this guy.
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Windryder
Caldari
New Fnord Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.18 11:26:00 -
[6]
First thing that comes to mind is to deliver them yourself: hire a freighter pilot/alt into your corp. Making sure, of course, that you can trust them.
However, in my experience the most efficient way of transporting raw materials is as a finished product. A finished product has the advantage that it doesn't need to be hauled as it can be self-propelled. For example, the minerals needed to build a Raven won't fit into an industrial but will fit into a Raven, which can then be flown to market and sold, or with enough skill, recycled at minimal loss. The loss more than offsets the costs of the alternatives.
Or you build the hauler. Build the components into freighters that then get filled with other non-frieghter components and sent to market.
Or don't haul. Build the components on-site or in-system. This will mean bringing raw materials in, which can be done with buy-orders or supply contracts.
I have a counter-question - do you need to sell at Jita or do you just need to sell? If you can bring the customer to you, you haul nothing.
Trusting the courier is a tough one. It would be a rare courier that could offer the collateral needed to go guarantor on this deal. However, you do not need the collateral to *be* the cost of the cargo - you only need the collateral to cover the cost of *recovering* the cargo. Find a very large mercenary corporation and ask them for a quote for the cost of wardeccing and recovering the cargo. You may find that their quote is significantly less than the value of the components. Use this as the collateral sum. Then if the courier runs away with it, you set the dogs loose.
As for the best place for the Capital Ship sales, I would have a look at the map. If you want to sell in Empire there's a good chance the best places will be low-sec. There is a whole region in Amarr that is almost totally low-sec. If you want to sell in zerospace I would take a very active interest in the war. Keep track of where the front is, and where you can get your ships out to for sale that is close behind the front, but still safe. Be sure to offer both sides the same deals and availability. Even better is to sell the ships before they leave the factory. Network.
Just some idle thoughts.
\\'
"Never underestimate the power of a n00b to blunder through a dangerous situation unharmed and obliviously unaware." |
Windryder
Caldari
New Fnord Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.18 11:26:00 -
[7]
First thing that comes to mind is to deliver them yourself: hire a freighter pilot/alt into your corp. Making sure, of course, that you can trust them.
However, in my experience the most efficient way of transporting raw materials is as a finished product. A finished product has the advantage that it doesn't need to be hauled as it can be self-propelled. For example, the minerals needed to build a Raven won't fit into an industrial but will fit into a Raven, which can then be flown to market and sold, or with enough skill, recycled at minimal loss. The loss more than offsets the costs of the alternatives.
Or you build the hauler. Build the components into freighters that then get filled with other non-frieghter components and sent to market.
Or don't haul. Build the components on-site or in-system. This will mean bringing raw materials in, which can be done with buy-orders or supply contracts.
I have a counter-question - do you need to sell at Jita or do you just need to sell? If you can bring the customer to you, you haul nothing.
Trusting the courier is a tough one. It would be a rare courier that could offer the collateral needed to go guarantor on this deal. However, you do not need the collateral to *be* the cost of the cargo - you only need the collateral to cover the cost of *recovering* the cargo. Find a very large mercenary corporation and ask them for a quote for the cost of wardeccing and recovering the cargo. You may find that their quote is significantly less than the value of the components. Use this as the collateral sum. Then if the courier runs away with it, you set the dogs loose.
As for the best place for the Capital Ship sales, I would have a look at the map. If you want to sell in Empire there's a good chance the best places will be low-sec. There is a whole region in Amarr that is almost totally low-sec. If you want to sell in zerospace I would take a very active interest in the war. Keep track of where the front is, and where you can get your ships out to for sale that is close behind the front, but still safe. Be sure to offer both sides the same deals and availability. Even better is to sell the ships before they leave the factory. Network.
Just some idle thoughts.
\\'
"Never underestimate the power of a n00b to blunder through a dangerous situation unharmed and obliviously unaware." |
theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.18 12:51:00 -
[8]
Thats already some pretty good input - keep it rolling - where best to produce near the great southern wars - but still in empire?
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Titax
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Posted - 2007.03.18 19:49:00 -
[9]
As for Question (2) - I would say Hire a Transporter or Corp who can put up the deposit. I would format it like this.
Item Exchange Private to the hauler. you would receive the value of the goods a low market in isk. Once the Delivery is Made they would contract via Item Exchange Private to you and request the money back along with the aggreed to payment.
i.e. 500 Cap Ship Items worth 3.5 Billion, they would pay for them all then haul it all to said location where they would put up an auction for all the items for 3.6billion if the payment was to be 100m. Just use Private Item Exchange Contracts.
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Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2007.03.19 08:02:00 -
[10]
Train for a freighter, it only takes a month or two...
Blueprint Research Service Available
See thread for details.
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.19 08:31:00 -
[11]
hey hey
I think you have to remember that trust works both ways. use the contract system to set normal courier runs is about the only safe and secure way for both parties involved. that way you collateral is secure and their reward is secure. I dont believe that once a courier has been accepted it can then be cancelled by the person who set it. everything else will require trust from you as well cause you can easily take their collateral and screw them on delivery.. do you have and RL mates who play eve and fly freighters ?
a few questions to you.
Have you factored in the service price to haul the components from inaro to jita ? After a few jumps you may have been better off by training for a freighter and haulling it yourself. or even directly purchasing a freighter capable pilot from the forums. if i was really honest id say train for freighter with an alt as its pretty easy to get and requires little skills and with the current creation skills you can drasticly cut down your training times.
why have you set your sales price targets to be HIGH instead of low ? every person i know who bought a freighter has waited till the price is UNDER a bil not over. Also they were more than willing to shuttle to the location and just slow ap back home again. With the incomming patch letting contracts view universe wide I would be cautionus and try to be competitive with your price points.
why 3rd party selling ? Id agree freighter sales cause alot of pilots want them (at reasonable prices) but wouldnt it be better to contact an alliance or known PvP corp and sell direct to your customer base. I think that most carrier/dreads are purchased in house, again at reasonable prices. so if i was producing them i would totally contact my customer base and offer replacement capitals :) I know its your choice but i thought id throw in another option for you.
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theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:05:00 -
[12]
Edited by: theforge on 20/03/2007 19:03:25
thx for the suggestion - on the freighter, I have one, but I rather concentrate on building rather than hauling
am still struggling with the location for building the components down south. What is a good build location?
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m4jor dis4ster
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.23 11:21:00 -
[13]
 Quote:
On my question (1) "the best production location" - I am looking for specific input on the ideal production location still in empire.
Looking at the map makes tash murkon seem a safe bet, but what I dont know what the distance is to the 0.0 regions where wars rage (stain, catch, curse, great wildlands) in terms of capital ship (dread, carrier) cynosaural field jumps. Is Yash Murkon a good region or is there a better alternative in Empire (0.4)
Having lived in Stain for 6 or so months I can confirm that for easy access Tash Murkon is the best place to build capital ships to supply to Stain and surrounding regions. In particular a system called Saminer is where my old corp used to jump from to a system called HM-UVD. Saminer is a 0.3 or 0.4 system, I cant remember without looking at the map and is 2 jumps from Paye, the closest hi sec system.
Saminer is used by a lot of people as the jump point from empire in to 0.0 in Stain and the surrounding areas as with medium to high skills you can get to most of them in 1 cyno jump.
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theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.23 13:14:00 -
[14]
Thx for the excellent addition! Now on the South-West side, would Shamemi be a good location for entering Bob space nearby or does somebody have a better idea?
Originally by: m4jor dis4ster
Quote:
On my question (1) "the best production location" - I am looking for specific input on the ideal production location still in empire.
Looking at the map makes tash murkon seem a safe bet, but what I dont know what the distance is to the 0.0 regions where wars rage (stain, catch, curse, great wildlands) in terms of capital ship (dread, carrier) cynosaural field jumps. Is Yash Murkon a good region or is there a better alternative in Empire (0.4)
Having lived in Stain for 6 or so months I can confirm that for easy access Tash Murkon is the best place to build capital ships to supply to Stain and surrounding regions. In particular a system called Saminer is where my old corp used to jump from to a system called HM-UVD. Saminer is a 0.3 or 0.4 system, I cant remember without looking at the map and is 2 jumps from Paye, the closest hi sec system.
Saminer is used by a lot of people as the jump point from empire in to 0.0 in Stain and the surrounding areas as with medium to high skills you can get to most of them in 1 cyno jump.
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Nebuchadnezzar I
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.03.23 20:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 23/03/2007 20:36:21
Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 23/03/2007 20:35:48
For your mineral needs (regardless where you want to base out of) you may want to consider this as at least a supplement:
Tiny
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theforge
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Posted - 2007.03.24 13:08:00 -
[16]
Winners are:
- m4jor dis4ster
- Dawnus Eveus
- Windryder
Money deposited in their wallets. Thx for all the contributions!
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