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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:19:00 -
[1]
This might have ended up in the wrong forum so I'll provide a Linky
Please keep all replies in the OP
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cainam on 19/03/2007 19:50:01
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 19/03/2007 19:28:41 Four obligatory questions. Going to post here as Sell Orders threads get pushed to the bottom really fast, so this forum is better for discussion IMHO.
1. Why should we trust you? 2. How much of the profits will be dividended? 3. If 2) is a very high percentage, what's in it for you? 4. What if you end up with a bunch of capital ships you can't sell?
Ok here goes:
1: I have been in EVE since '05. I have used my main and my "main alt" in these posts. I don't really what else to do to earn your trust. If you have any ideas feel free to share them.
I have kept mostly to myself, and havn't offended anyone, so I am not really "known" by the community. If it makes you feel better I could get some friends to make a post here...
2: Up until phase 4 100% will be paid out. This to ensure a fast return on the investment. After that its up to what's decided on the shareholders meeting.
3: My corp will own ~50% of the shares until phase 5 (if implemented) Thus I will recive dividends aswell, and since the idea is to make ISK... well you get it.
4: The value is still there. If we (the shareholders) see that dividends are decreasing we always have the option to decommision the enterprise. Since most of the investment is in BPO's no isk will be lost. The "leftover" ships will sell over time.
This is explained in the main post. We have several "outs" so to say.
Hope that cleared a few things up!
Edit: Missed some stuff in your post..
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jon Asus What is to stop you from running off with 14,990,000,000isk? That'd buy quite a nice character...
What have you done to work up the capital you will be putting into this venture?
Now, first of all as I allready stated in this post and the OP. I have no way to prove that I wont run off with the ISK. If you have any ideas how to prove it please tell me!
All I can do is turn the question around on you and say something stupid like "Why should I answer this unless you prove that you are an investor"
As for how I have raised my part of the isk.
I've played this game since '05 and I started out by running missions (and I still do).
After a while I started playing around with building Battleships and found it to be very profitable. I'd actually go so far to say that if you are flying a Raven, and bought it of the market somewhere in the northen regions the odds are pretty good that it was I who built it.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chribba 1-man corps is always hard to pull off these types of investments unless your character/corp has some sort of reputation, and imo 10M for a share is quite risky as said in other posts, you could just run of with the ISK, may I suggest you make 10 times as many shares and drop the price 10 times (1M/share) that way I would imagine investors may have an easier way of investing maybe only like 2M instead of 20M since probably most could lose 2M if this turns out as a scam.
Good luck with the investments.
This is a good piece of advice, and I will follow it.
I will update the OP as soon as the shares are created.
Further, if you are so worried about the 1-man thing I have offerd to take in investors or investors alt's in the corp.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome Pardon me if this scenario doesn't make sense, I don't know how the share system operates.
With your main corp retaining 51% of shares, what's to stop you from voting to create many times more shares and diluting the value of the shares that investors have purchased?
EG 1000 shares, 501 in your posession, 499 in investors'. You vote "yes" on creating another 9000 shares, which you transfer to your main corp. Your investors now own less than 5% and you 95%.
Like I said, I might be misunderstanding the share system, but I figure this is a good a time as any to ask. If there's a writeup somewhere on how the share system works that'd be good too so I don't make myself look like too much of a moron.
Yes, this is possible. Unfortunately I can also take the ISK and run like hell, or take the built ships and fly off some nice resort never to be heard from again.
I really wish there were a "safe" way for investors to invest in this kind of venture. It would make for a much more interesting market climate in EVE.
At least it would make my life easier
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Cainam I really wish there were a "safe" way for investors to invest in this kind of venture. It would make for a much more interesting market climate in EVE.
I don't wish for it at all. If the venture capital market was safe all we'd see is the celebration of mediocrity. Credibility and trust would simply be marketing by-words instead of the valuable commodities that are. What you should want is to work on making a background with some smaller projects. I grant that your appetite may have progressed from what your mega-industrial solo game play may have previously satisfied. However you are also paying the penalty for not having been out and about in the open market place. You can be maverick and simply accept that you'll draw naysayers and not many adherents... until you prove yourself. Or you can try working in, and with, the community itself until you can strike out for venture capital stardom. BTW I'm a maverick so don't think I dislike the methodology. I just think people need to research, as well, what the public response is going to be to how they present themselves. All this frustrated "how does a person get credibility?!?" is nothing more than a whine that translates as: "I want a shortcut past the things I should be doing to get started." Everyone wants to be star. No one seems to want to earn it.
I hear you loud and clear.
The advice you are giving is to the point and well put.
However, in this case a smaller project is something I easily could do myself and that's why I drew up this project. To get involved in the community so to say.
Now, any of us here could easily throw away 10m isk or even 100m isk on a project. Some could probably throw away 1b without it making any real difference. My point is that smaller projects is often something you just do yourself.
Now, if it takes that I create a corp that boldly announces an investment opportunity in building frigates or cruisers I'd feel quite silly, since that is something almost every player in the game can do. However, if this is what it takes to be taken seriously that is what I will do.
I will let this investment round run its course, and if the project falls through I will be back with something smaller if that is what it takes to prove myself.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.20 11:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cainam on 20/03/2007 11:49:34
Originally by: Jester Marc Ok, I really hate talk without action. Let me be the first to buy shares with you and if I get screwed... then we'll all know, ok? Put me down for 10 shares @100mil. I'll eve-mail you later on today and send you the isk.
I understand the skittishness but since I brought up the one alt corp dealie thing I'll also be the first to test the waters. I'll keep everybody updated.
For your information: Chribba gave some advice earlier on lowering the price per share to 1 m per share and create more shares
Thus if you want to invest 100m you will receive 100 shares
The OP is now updated with this info
Further, I want to thank you for your confidence in me and in this venture. I look forward to hear from you.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sun Win Do I understand the plan correctly that I won't expect to see any return on my investment at all for 4-6 months?
It is all stated in the OP. This is a long term investment so your estimate of 4-6 months is correct.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.21 14:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Skarii TuThess Cainam,
do you (or any corp member) have any experience with running this sort of operation?
That depends on what you are referring to. Yes, I have experience in running a large scale industrial operation in EVE. No, I haven't any experience in dealing with a publicly owned company in EVE...
I hope this answers your question.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.23 14:15:00 -
[10]
Weekly update
I am happy to report that five investors has committed in this venture so far.
We still have a long way to go to our 15b target but we are making slow and steady progress. With some good fortune, and an additional handful of investors we may still hit our target on time.
Yours truly
Cainam / Daladar
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:36:00 -
[11]
Fund raising status
I am happy to announce that so far a total of 2,3b ISK has been raised.
We still have a long way to go to our target of 15b so there's still an opportunity for you to invest.
Yours truly
Cainam / Daladar
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.27 20:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ray McCormack This IPO is perfectly suited towards a Trustee-based corporation. If you can manage to persuade some trusted individual(s) to manage yours I'd be pretty happy to invest.
Could you explain in more detail how you figure this would work?
It might be something that's arrangeable...
I have already opened the door for investors to put alts in the corp, so if that's what you mean you are free to do so.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.03.28 19:34:00 -
[13]
Ah, I see how you mean.
This is what is planned for phase 5 of this venture. (When Hypherians, if allowed by the shareholders. sells some or all of the shares.)
The general idea is that Hypherians Capital Production at one point will be completly owned by the public, and thus will have a need for a board of trustees.
Now, for the first 4 parts of this venture I didn't forsee the need for this, and to be honest I didn't think it would be this hard to raise the funds.
Now to the point. As it stands, with your suggestions I'd have to remake this entire venture to accomodate a trustee-board. This is something I am willing to do, but first I must contact my current investors to get this approved.
Secondly I'd have to raise more funds. If I'm going to hold 33% of the shares, the total funds that have to be raised by outside investors would have to be 20b
Thirdly. This might look a bit greedy, but if I'm only allowed a 33% dividend I also would like a "salary" for the work that will be put it to this by me, or that the trustees pull their own weight in a manner of speaking. But hell, we are all in it for the ISK, right!
Another point I'd like to make is that if I will own 33% and 2 other trustees will own 33% each, the corp wouldn't be publicly owned... It would be a small industrial corp with 3 members ... but I guess this was a typo/brainfart.
Finally:
There's only 12 days left to the deadline and frankly it doesn't look like we will hit our target so unless a smaller miracle happens (or someone with a huge wallet drops by) the investors will probably recieve a mail the 10 april along with their funds back.
I won't give up on working along the current model yet, but in case it falls through, and we don't meet the minimum 10b ISK raised I will re-work the entire venture to incorporate a trustee-board.
Now, the only question left is how do we trust the "trustees"?
I would like to thank Ray McCormack and Ricdic for this suggestion, and should you have further ideas or questions feel free to post again!
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.04.04 03:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: WhitePhantom Now, the only question left is how do we trust the "trustees"?
How about you offer Ricdic or Ray McCormack the job, perhaps since they suggested it, they will help you on this venture. I am interested in this venture, of course I don't have a billion isk let alone but a small investment ( 2-3 shares ).
Will look forward to hearing about the status of the investment fund.
Well, I might ask them or someone else if i can't get this off the ground any other way.
It seems that I might have been a mistake to announce that I would re-form this venture to include a board of trustees since not a single person has invested or contacted me about it since.
Oh well, I guess we'll see what happens. My own affairs is going quite nicely now so I might just run it as private thing on a slightly smaller scale if this investment round fails
Only one week left now, still lots of shares available!
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.04.04 20:08:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cainam on 04/04/2007 20:17:29
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
the secret investors' part lost my interest.
There are no "secret" investors. Most of those who has invested has made a post here about it.
However, I really can't publish the names of those who have invested without their consent now can I?
IIRC there's only one person who has invested without making a post about it, and that investment was of a minor nature.
EDIT: After reading the entire topic again I find that there's a few investors that hasn't posted in this thread. All the major investors has posted, and the remaining ones are less or equal to 100m isk.
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.04.05 23:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: WhitePhantom I will make an investment, although it will be small, expect it by Friday.
Size doesn't matter
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Cainam
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.04.10 22:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cainam on 10/04/2007 22:09:14 Investing round failure
It is my sad duty to inform you all that the Hypherians Capital Productions venture will never reach stage 2.
The fundraising deadline was hit today, and with only ~3b raised we were about 7b short for the project to continue.
I would like to thank those who invested in this venture for putting their faith and their hard-earned ISK in my care.
As of 2007-04-11, 00:02 all investments have been returned to their owners.
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