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InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 17:59:32 -
[1] - Quote
I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the competitor area, reporting to him which cards his opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch the world poker championship if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not.
So my attitude towards all this is this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way? |
Paranoid Loyd
9612
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 18:37:27 -
[2] - Quote
Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14789
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 18:39:59 -
[3] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.
So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?
Nope. what you are describing is one of the things that adds value to the game. Epic events have come to pass in EVE (and make real world news) because of spying. Without spying, EVE wouldn't be EVE, because not knowing how is a spy (or who may turn coat) is a part of the 'tension' of the game. That 'tension' is important.
It's like saying "wouldn't the game be better if you could never lose a ship". No it wouldn't because being able to lose a ship is the only thing that gives the ship any emotional value. Likewise, having to be careful about what you say/mail and having to maintain a low intensity but 'always on' suspicion makes succeeding in what you are doing even sweeter.
Besides all of that, even getting rid of alts would not elminate spying, it would jsut shift it to real people who can be bought rather than alts. In fact, it might even encourage the use of real life money (which can't be tracked in game) to buy people to spy. Your dislike of spying probably keeps you from considering the actual costs of eliminating it (which is natural, when people dislike something it's hard for them to understand how it could be beneficial). |
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14789
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 18:43:31 -
[4] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it.
Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all |
InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 19:02:03 -
[5] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it. Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all
Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff).
This is more like a bittervet rant about a certain aspect of the game that I hate, after playing it for so many years. It is not a illogical rant, because I pointed out Eve Online is a great game, but this is just a certain aspect that I hate. |
Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
42
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 19:15:27 -
[6] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.
So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way? sounds like your issue is less with spies
and more with scouts, sentries, or patrols.
you being mad that a fight didn't happen because the scout,sentry, or patrol saw your fleet incoming, and alerted their alliance.
as for the leaked intel, it doesn't have to be a spy to do that. it can be someone who is mad at how they've been treated in their corp and want revenge. aka backstabber. nothing you can do about that.
as someone whose played alot in World of Tanks, despite being a joke of a game compared to EVE, intel was still valuable. what tanks they bringing, what tactics(if you can get their strategy before hand from people who fought them before, thats an instant win), and who they bringing(skill level)
or even Guild Wars 2's WvW. we'd have "solo" players doing their thing acting like sentries, scouts, or patrols. all to warn of the position of the enemy zerg. and know where is open to strike.
a Spy isn't something you can prevent, it exists in all forms both malicious and innocent(i just happened to be there) and internal and external intentional and accidental traitor and infiltrator.
its part of the thrill.
in EVE, where every ship lost is gone forever, the danger of losing it, an the value of intel is going to be very concerning no matter what.
it doesn't have to be a spy. i'm not taking my ship through a gate without intel of whats beyond. whether thats from asking people who jumped before me, checking zkillboard, or the map for whose docked and undocked, how many have died in past hour and 24 hours.
InterStellar Architect wrote: So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?
it is a game aye, but its a game where not knowing can cost you. and if you screw up, you can lose ALOT. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1205
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 19:24:53 -
[7] - Quote
but isn't that part of the joy of the game? Look I am not a spy in real life. I never will be not would I want to be. It's wrong in my opinion and the risk always out weigh the reward.
However... To try it? To live a life that is different? To try a challenge way outside my comfort zone? To try something so against my norm, it could be fun. Would I probably hate it and the betrayal... Most likely, but well... If just being a nameless mass in a fleet relaying Intel to my real friends... Maybe that would be interesting. Maybe it would be a challenge. Who knows. I'm not apt to do it on this character as why? But to say been there, done that, have the titan killmail to prove it, well... I may never do it, but I can at least see the allure.
And while you say it is just a game, on the other hand, it is just a game so why not? It's not like lives or jail time is on the line. Yes I could be betraying friends or I could just be one of many random brave newbies or hordies with no friends on this side of the fleet but a ton on the other so what have I got to lose?
This is why I never understood the whole "it's just a game, relax and be good" mentity. In real life being a spy seems suicidal, but in a game, it could be fun. It's kind of like dog fighting in jets. I would never do it in real life but if there was a virtual reality where I could, why not? |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
29
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 19:25:21 -
[8] - Quote
so....
OP hates the fact that he missed few battles because intel of his corp/alliance have found that engaging in that specific battle was not good idea?
or does OP hates the fact that he missed few "battles" where enemy got enought intel on them to know that engaging in head-on battle was suicide?
spies, sentries, scouts:
there is no real war without those means of obtaining inteligence on enemy capabilities, movements etc.. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
596
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 21:21:50 -
[9] - Quote
What a wild and wreckless change that would be to Eve Online if they suddenly came out and said that starting tomorrow, this is a one account/one character game.
Actually - I would love that Oooo the character immersion and boost to player lore would be so awesome!
And they could expand on walking in stations too right? Since we're dreaming
@lunettelulu7
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
562
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 21:49:42 -
[10] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it. Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff). This is more like a bittervet rant about a certain aspect of the game that I hate, after playing it for so many years. It is not an illogical rant, because I pointed out Eve Online is a great game, but this is just a certain aspect that I hate.
So many bollocks in one post. |
|
Memphis Baas
2072
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 22:07:43 -
[11] - Quote
To use your analogy:
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting around on their couches at home doing nothing. Imagine each guy's buddy / promoter calling them up to tell them to get off the couch and go to this poker event that they found out about, that's gonna be EASY MONEY. How easy? Pretty sure nobody there will play poker better than you.
Poker tournament wouldn't happen without the buddy / promoter / spy. Do you think the players go to the poker tournaments specifically so they can lose? No, they participate because they're lied to; told that this time they've improved enough that they can win. Wouldn't happen without that.
It's a game. 5000 star systems + 2500 wormholes, everyone docks up at the slightest sign of unfavorable odds, or if the other side has 1 more ship in the blob than they do. No fights would happen without the spies. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3618
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 23:10:38 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nope. what you are describing is one of the things that adds value to the game. Epic events have come to pass in EVE (and make real world news) because of spying. Without spying, EVE wouldn't be EVE, because not knowing how is a spy (or who may turn coat) is a part of the 'tension' of the game. That 'tension' is important.
It's like saying "wouldn't the game be better if you could never lose a ship". No it wouldn't because being able to lose a ship is the only thing that gives the ship any emotional value. Likewise, having to be careful about what you say/mail and having to maintain a low intensity but 'always on' suspicion makes succeeding in what you are doing even sweeter.
Besides all of that, even getting rid of alts would not elminate spying, it would jsut shift it to real people who can be bought rather than alts. In fact, it might even encourage the use of real life money (which can't be tracked in game) to buy people to spy. Your dislike of spying probably keeps you from considering the actual costs of eliminating it (which is natural, when people dislike something it's hard for them to understand how it could be beneficial).
Spying via real people who are bought (Through in game means). That adds value to the game. That adds real drama.
Deleting all your characters and starting fresh to work your way up and perform an alliance disbanding, that adds value to the game.
Spying through a disconnected Alt account that you created a false facebook profile for to pretend to be a real person, that doesn't add value to the game, that subtracts value.
I'm not against the idea of spying, I am against the level it gets taken to in EVE by the 'serious' spies because that stuff ceases to be just a game and becomes downright fraudulent. And because it is done via alts it's a basically risk free exercise since the person doing it at most loses an alt who's only purpose in life was to spy. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
483
|
Posted - 2016.09.30 23:34:20 -
[13] - Quote
Problem is that nobody wants to lose, people here in the game go on about carebears and how gental and soft they are but then same goes for lots of pvp'ers as how they make sure to have boosts, etc, they call it strategy I call it playing safe, if you are going to do it, do it without the condominium. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1256
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 00:10:16 -
[14] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:
Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff).
You want a ******* cookie?
I hate this part of this game - but I'm super ******* rich, so obviously I don't really care about it, I just hate it.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1256
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 00:13:03 -
[15] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:What a wild and wreckless change that would be to Eve Online if they suddenly came out and said that starting tomorrow, this is a one account/one character game. Actually - I would love that Oooo the character immersion and boost to player lore would be so awesome! And they could expand on walking in stations too right? Since we're dreaming
And then we could all ride rainbow farting unicorns over to visit Steve.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13012
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 02:36:42 -
[16] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff).
Money can't buy everything, you know
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
|
Paranoid Loyd
9613
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 03:00:11 -
[17] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:InterStellar Architect wrote:
Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff).
You want a ******* cookie? I hate this part of this game - but I'm super ******* rich, so obviously I don't really care about it, I just hate it. Thing is there's one or many things in this quote he's lying about, if not he wouldn't be posting on an alt with 0 kills and 0 losses on record.
"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix
Fix the Prospect!
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
826
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 03:31:32 -
[18] - Quote
Spies R Gud.
This opinion brought to you by Herr Brokkmeister esq., free of charge no less. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Test Alliance Please Ignore
1201
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 03:42:39 -
[19] - Quote
Enemy spies are cheating bastards.
Friendly spies are fantastic players who do so much for us.
Such is life.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
|
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1877
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 03:56:42 -
[20] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:SPAI
Welcome to reality.
It's good practice for IRL, BTW.
Get that promotion at work, for example.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45112
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 04:14:12 -
[21] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:It's good practice for IRL, BTW.
Get that promotion at work, for example.
Really?
That Machiavellian that you spy on your colleagues to get an edge against them for promotion? Why not just be good enough at your job?*
* Disclaimer: If you are actually in intelligence in real life, then being good at that would be the same as good at your work, so ignore the above.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
826
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 04:38:33 -
[22] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote: Money can't buy everything, you know
That quote has been copyrighted by people with money; that's why poors never use it. |
InterStellar Architect
InterStellar Architects Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 04:48:38 -
[23] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:InterStellar Architect wrote:Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff).
Money can't buy everything, you know
If only I actually care about being liked. Look at my forum posts and you will see I make no such attempt. |
Morgan Agrivar
Divine Bovine Security Services
564
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 04:52:32 -
[24] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it. Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff). This is more like a bittervet rant about a certain aspect of the game that I hate, after playing it for so many years. It is not an illogical rant, because I pointed out Eve Online is a great game, but this is just a certain aspect that I hate. Unrelated sidenote: I am jealous. I have been playing 3 years and might have 1.3b in isk and assets total.
Wow, I must be doing something really...really wrong in this game.
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1098
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 05:20:20 -
[25] - Quote
Morgan Agrivar wrote:InterStellar Architect wrote:Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff) Unrelated sidenote: I am jealous. I have been playing 3 years and might have 1.3b in isk and assets total. Wow, I must be doing something really...really wrong in this game. Like telling the truth.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
612
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 05:47:22 -
[26] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.
So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?
Yes it's a game, now how about NOT using a vile deadly disease as an analogy......
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
13014
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 09:25:42 -
[27] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:If only I actually care about being liked. Look at my forum posts and you will see I make no such attempt.
*Whoosh*
also, rants are frowned upon
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1877
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 11:14:38 -
[28] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Really?
That Machiavellian that you spy on your colleagues to get an edge against them for promotion?
Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.
Scipio Artelius wrote:* Disclaimer: If you are actually in intelligence, ignore the above
Nah, when I was in Intel we saved it for the bad guys.
Also, you have clearly never been in Sales.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2436
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 14:58:10 -
[29] - Quote
To the OP, this is one of the things that ruined the game for me, I had played other games as a very successful leader but in this one the ease of spying based on multiple accounts without doing out of game stuff to counter made it immersion breaking, so I crossed running a corp or alliance off my list of things that are fun. I did build a successful corp and was second in command of a sov holding alliance and tried my hand at a virtual alliance, but saw some stuff while doing that that made me think not worth the time to continue as it was just too easy to break up.
The worst one was using your cap assets as a up and coming alliance, it was nail biting stuff which I suppose gives you a buzz when it comes off, but my god the stress level was just a bit much and some people were like oh my god oh my god the entire time they were in space. Quite funny at times though I have to admit.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
828
|
Posted - 2016.10.01 17:00:59 -
[30] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:To the OP, this is one of the things that ruined the game for me, I had played other games as a very successful leader but in this one the ease of spying based on multiple accounts without doing out of game stuff to counter made it immersion breaking, so I crossed running a corp or alliance off my list of things that are fun. I did build a successful corp and was second in command of a sov holding alliance and tried my hand at a virtual alliance, but saw some stuff while doing that that made me think not worth the time to continue as it was just too easy to break up.
The worst one was using your cap assets as a up and coming alliance, it was nail biting stuff which I suppose gives you a buzz when it comes off, but my god the stress level was just a bit much and some people were like oh my god oh my god the entire time they were in space. Quite funny at times though I have to admit.
This is the best propaganda statement ever. Which other game offers such nail biting action? Last night my hands were shaking man. Nothing on the killboard - neither losses nor kills; yet I was out all night shooting, getting shot at, dodging camps, scanning, alt-tabbing to dotlan to plot an escape hatch ... same goes for fielding caps. Any other game, you'd just grab your biggest boat and start grinding. In EvE, you're already sweating before undocking it, crossing your fingers nothing goes wrong despite all that power at your command. Ahhh... Best of times <3 |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2437
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Posted - 2016.10.01 19:53:37 -
[31] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Dracvlad wrote:To the OP, this is one of the things that ruined the game for me, I had played other games as a very successful leader but in this one the ease of spying based on multiple accounts without doing out of game stuff to counter made it immersion breaking, so I crossed running a corp or alliance off my list of things that are fun. I did build a successful corp and was second in command of a sov holding alliance and tried my hand at a virtual alliance, but saw some stuff while doing that that made me think not worth the time to continue as it was just too easy to break up.
The worst one was using your cap assets as a up and coming alliance, it was nail biting stuff which I suppose gives you a buzz when it comes off, but my god the stress level was just a bit much and some people were like oh my god oh my god the entire time they were in space. Quite funny at times though I have to admit. This is the best propaganda statement ever. Which other game offers such nail biting action? Last night my hands were shaking man. Nothing on the killboard - neither losses nor kills; yet I was out all night shooting, getting shot at, dodging camps, scanning, alt-tabbing to dotlan to plot an escape hatch ... same goes for fielding caps. Any other game, you'd just grab your biggest boat and start grinding. In EvE, you're already sweating before undocking it, crossing your fingers nothing goes wrong despite all that power at your command. Ahhh... Best of times <3
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18231
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Posted - 2016.10.01 20:12:40 -
[32] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
Its only as easy as the target makes it. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4442
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Posted - 2016.10.01 20:51:35 -
[33] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:It's good practice for IRL, BTW.
Get that promotion at work, for example.
Really? That Machiavellian that you spy on your colleagues to get an edge against them for promotion?* * Disclaimer: If you are actually in intelligence, ignore the above. You've never been to Insider Threats training I see. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
2437
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Posted - 2016.10.01 21:11:42 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
I understand exactly what you mean, it is the same buzz as a close fight where you end up with a sliver of hull and you are the last one standing. The thing is I was not so keen on the issue of spying being so easy, I wanted my opponents to have to commit not some third party who will utterly crush me, which was not fun at all. I know you will see the difference, I am totally with you, damn that you are my kinda guy because you really get Eve and are not one of these fake Eve players.
Its only as easy as the target makes it.
I just found it rather tedious to have to gather real life data for a video game, something I was not prepared to do, so I guess that makes me easy...
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
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Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
101
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Posted - 2016.10.02 16:52:09 -
[35] - Quote
On a side note, I'd like to put an entire account on red standings, even if I can't see what pilot goes to what account. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1596
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Posted - 2016.10.03 04:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Anyone who thinks spying is easy / risk free / bad for the game has never done it. It's a hunting play-style that requires patience, self control and organisation. Great thing about EvE is you can use someone's trust, cost them billions upon billions and like any fight they can say "Well played." I'm still friends with people i've destroyed, from venture up to captive market level of treachery. Been on both ends of the stick, too. It's a whole 'nother level of play and if you feel bad about it you should shake it off or just...
Git gud.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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L DOPA
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.10.03 09:50:38 -
[37] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote: Entropia Universe is built to allow RMT, it would not work if you could have more than one account, there is a huge difference.
The meta game is all that keeps the game fresh. You might think you don't like it but you would have become bored long ago without it. Related sidenote: This is what happens to people who leave the game because they can never be totally safe even in high sec. They rage quit loudly and go play some other MMO that doesn't have non-consensual pvp....and get bored really really quick because they are totally safe in that game... They didn't realize that the constant danger while playing EVE made their game experience more valuable, and so they come right back to EVE grumbling the whole way at the unfairness of it all Related Sidenote: I've been playing Eve for over five years. I have assets worth over 2 tril, and I will not lose any sleep if I lose a ship worth 100 bil. Or even if I somehow lose my entire wealth (no you can't have my stuff). This is more like a bittervet rant about a certain aspect of the game that I hate, after playing it for so many years. It is not an illogical rant, because I pointed out Eve Online is a great game, but this is just a certain aspect that I hate. Just part of EvE. In Pandemic horde we have spies who relay intel, spies who awox, spies who create warpins for ganks, spies who suss out the best hot drop opportunities, we have spies in comms, we probably even have spies who FC and spies who make us dinner after a long day of being spied on...
Its amusing to be scouting for a fleet or gang and something is said on coms and straight away the enemy fleet takes action to react to what we just said...
While I feel a little embarassed for people who go to such lengths to "win" its an accepted part of life in EvE.
L Dopa : Infinity Ziona |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1743
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Posted - 2016.10.03 14:53:34 -
[38] - Quote
L DOPA wrote:While I feel a little embarassed for people who go to such lengths to "win" its an accepted part of life in EvE.
I feel the same way. In general, about Eve. Not knowing whether to applaud going to extreme lengths to win, or not. It does mean the other party must go to equal lengths to even stand a chance. I think a lot of people are willing to put extreme amounts of effort into the game, no matter what aspect, and I'm always lagging behind because I'm just a filthy casual that, well... doesn't. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
117
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Posted - 2016.10.03 19:19:36 -
[39] - Quote
You're kidding right? EVE is probably the least metagame risky PvP game I've ever encountered.
Corp history, local, too much live statistical info on the map, the massive insane thing that the EVE API has morphed in to, killboards, all that combines in to a game where there is a lot of free and easy intel floating around.
There's not a whole lot a spy can tell your enemy that you can't reliably source from an algorithm anyway. The fact that people PvP more to pad stats than to actually control space or make a profit is an indication of a systemic problem with intelligence avaliability in EVE. There's so little valuable intel that spies actually have to operate at an insanely high level to do anything useful in the first place.
What's left is limited tactical data or day one fleet comps, which are useful, and can decide a battle, but the fact that you're so starved for content that you find fleet ops cancelled often enough to be irritating is due to the conflict of having a game that thrives on entropy coupled with an information mechanism that gives people entirely too many ways to avoid that entropy in the first place. Assets at risk on the field are a pittance compared to the contents of most alliance's banks. Spies aren't all that dangerous in EVE. Thieves on the other hand are potentially catastrophic against the unprepared. The well being of any entity, from the two man corp up to the largest alliance isn't decided by the performance of its fleets. It's decided by the size of its bank.
Here's an experiment:
Remove local.
Remove the API.
Remove corp histories.
Remove the ability to warp anywhere at all with a combat timer active.
THAT is a situation in which spies are actually a constant threat factor to every organization in the game.
What you have now is just a minor inconvenience and an extended job interview. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
635
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Posted - 2016.10.03 19:25:16 -
[40] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly.
Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead.
But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. |
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13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
176
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Posted - 2016.10.04 06:03:12 -
[41] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming.
I've participated in fleet fights where the fight did not happen because of spies.
Imagine a bunch of guys sitting down at a table playing poker. There are spectators in the background watching, and each competitor has a spy in the spectator area, reporting which cards the opponent has. This is like a perfect analogy to spies in Eve. Nobody would watch or be interested in the world poker tournament if this happened.
Now I am not sure why the spies do it, perhaps because they want to feel important, or maybe for certain ISK incentives.
In Entropia Universe, I read each player can only have one account/character, and if you have more than one character that's a ban-able offense. This would fix the Spy problem, but Eve Online will never be like that because the game is based on pure sandbox. And so many people have multiple accounts already (I have 5 accounts myself).
Eve Online is the only game that I know of, where people involved in alliance / corporation leadership are so uptight about what they say, because they are worried about leaking intel. Basically everyone can be a potential spy, until they are proven not. And even when they are proven not, they can still be a spy.
So my attitude towards all of this is: hey this is a fricking game, don't you get enough of this crap in real life?
Anyway, just I'm just venting about the certain aspect of this game that I hate, anybody feel the same way?
Sounds like Entropia is doing it right. If you can have altts, you can avoid consequences for actions, which is why is ironic when CCP touts EVE as a game where actions have consequences. Need to ship some war material to your null alt to keep fighting?
Well, you won't pay some hauler exorbitant hauling fees for it, because that would actually promote player interaction and economic behavior. No, you insulate yourself by paying for an alt or more accounts to haul with a neutral character that no one knows is yours, so you can get your stuff to you much more easily, and practically for free.
Nothing wrong with a sizable group of people unhappy with content letting their sub lapse for a week to demonstrate this. I think it is in everyone's interest to send a message, rather than let enough straws build up to break the camel for good.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5290
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Posted - 2016.10.04 07:39:55 -
[42] - Quote
InterStellar Architect wrote:I've been playing Eve for over 5 years and I like the game. But there is a certain aspect of the game that I've developed a hatred towards - that's meta gaming................
Have you considered you are playing the wrong game?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Turelus
Utassi Security
1052
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Posted - 2016.10.04 08:48:13 -
[43] - Quote
Having spent a couple of years play other games with semi-open world PvP I can tell you that spying is a big part of most of them.
For example in Elder Scrolls Online people would have laptops logged into rival faction characters just to watch the map to see where attacks were happening before they flagged up for their own faction.
This is just part of player mentality which is use all means necessary to win. Sometimes it means a fight doesn't happen or a horrible loss, sometimes it means the biggest fights possible or a win when intel reported is bad.
Turelus
CEO Utassi Security
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1601
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 11:50:48 -
[44] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.
There's a type of person called 'True-to-self ', one who is honest to a fault. They don't do well but are recognised as the gold that they are in situations like horrible emergencies, disasters or the ravages of war like famine and plague. So they haven't been weeded out by evolution and probably never will be. Some people are just rubbish and label themselves true-to-selfers when really the environment has their number and won't let them advance. Then there's those poor souls who are a bit neurologically divergent and are incapable of lying due to falsehood involving some idea of how things look from another's perspective. They are usually quite intelligent but socially awkward, can be good comedy value but abrasive, blunt and undiplomatic. They can all understand that civilization depends on a lot of low-key falsehood, that it's part of the game, that under pressure it's time for turbo lying, cheating and stealing.
TLDR: Human nature means you not only have to be Good, but you have to get GudGäó as well.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
501
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:11:09 -
[45] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL.
have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians?
it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else.
Just Add Water
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45121
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 12:32:41 -
[46] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with.
If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
501
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Posted - 2016.10.04 12:59:52 -
[47] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Mike Adoulin wrote:Sure. It's called 'politics'. People who claim to not play politics at work simply play it badly. Or they are good enough at their jobs that they can be effective without lying and spinning stories to get ahead. But you know, whatever you need to say to justify your actions IRL. have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else. For a considerable part of my career I worked in the most multi-cultural organisation there is and have never had any negative experience with any colleagues from those nations. In my experience they are some of the most respectful people I've worked with. If you've had negative experiences, that's down to the individuals, not their race. Just the same as people from any country. There is no 'nation of angels', nor the opposite either.
you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before. been working with them since 2008 and some of my good friends are keralites. i even attended to one of my keralite friend's daughter's wedding in india, and all of them admits to this special trait of theirs.
Just Add Water
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45121
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:14:30 -
[48] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:you obviously didn't work with malayalams aka keralites before. That's a bit too much of an assumption. Like I wrote before, nothing but respect from all Indians I have worked with, both in India and from those in my teams and my colleagues at the same level of seniority. It's a complex country, like all countries; but we should probably stop this discussion now.
I'm not trying to change your mind at all, just puting a different experience to the view that they are thieves who will take credit for the work of others (which is what was written above). That's far from my experience.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
639
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:44:54 -
[49] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:have you worked in a multi-national company dominated by indians, pakistani, and good amount of egyptians? it's not about lying and spinning stories, when working with these people, you need to know how to protect yourself which is getting the credit of your hardwork and not be stolen by somebody else.
I've worked for fortune 100 companies and current work on wall street in investment management. I will repeat myself, the only people who need to lie and "play the game" to get ahead are the ones who aren't actually good at their jobs. |
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