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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
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Posted - 2016.11.12 22:33:55 -
[301] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. But the orca will be the ultimate aft miner with a decent yeild.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department
612
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Posted - 2016.11.12 22:37:30 -
[302] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Raven Ship wrote:There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. But the orca will be the ultimate afk miner with a decent yield. And then i guess, code will adapt and start killing orcaminers. Until they get ganked.
Sneaky bastard.
Complaints Department is recruiting!
We got wardecced, ohnoes!
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
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Posted - 2016.11.12 22:46:41 -
[303] - Quote
Ded Akara wrote:Does anyone know if ice harvester drones got nerfed somehow? My orca on test used to get around 35 sec cycle time with a T2 ice drone but now it gets 50 seconds. That's with all skills maxed and T2 drone mining rigs. Same as my Sisi orca.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Careby
310
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Posted - 2016.11.12 23:42:40 -
[304] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:But the orca will be the ultimate afk miner with a decent yield. And then i guess, code will adapt and start killing orcaminers.
As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. Now whether or not it will be anywhere near the asteroids you were mining when you went afk is another matter.
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Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
51
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Posted - 2016.11.13 01:26:12 -
[305] - Quote
Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This.
I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge.
Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D |
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.11.13 11:06:56 -
[306] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This. I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge. Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D
Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca. Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.
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Careby
311
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Posted - 2016.11.13 11:58:50 -
[307] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca...
It's not impossible to gank a properly fit Orca now, and it won't be impossible to do after the expansion. But the resources and coordination it takes mean it doesn't happen very often. Most highsec Orca losses can be explained. Aside from flying under war dec or kill right, one recurring theme is improper fit. It is possible to "anti tank" an Orca by fitting cargohold modules and rigs, and you can be sure gankers will scan your fittings and do their math before committing themselves. There are usually enough miners with weakly tanked ships to keep them busy.
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Je'ron
The Happy Shooters
4
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Posted - 2016.11.13 13:22:55 -
[308] - Quote
ROFL at those "OMG They are getting a 600k EHP, 800 DPS, 250k m3, 1600 m3/min, anchorable/unbumpable, mine fleet protecting, boosting Orca" whines.
You will need to fit a lot of modules and rigs on your Orca to get that: DC2, Reinforced Bulkheads, Transverse Bulkhead, Shield extenders, Shield Hardeners, Defense Field Extenders, DDAs, Drone Nav computers, Sebos, Expanded Cargohold, Cargohold Optimizers, Mining Augmentors, MWD, Higgs Anchor, Remote Reps + Augmentors, Remote Shield boosters, Mining Foreman Bursts, Shield Command Bursts.
Remind me again, how much PG & CPU and how many high, med, low and rig slots does the Orca have? |
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
51
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Posted - 2016.11.14 00:35:07 -
[309] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math.
Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch
That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space.
I don't see this becoming a common thing. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
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Posted - 2016.11.14 01:05:30 -
[310] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math. Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space. I don't see this becoming a common thing. But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.11.14 10:21:01 -
[311] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote: I don't see this becoming a common thing.
May be as Orca's in majority do not stay at belt for now. So if you do not look at suicides activity you will definitely not notice it.
Raw Matters wrote: That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space.
And as you do not see this happening, you do not see also that suicides collect wrecks right after kill, with npc alts, with addiction to insurance if any ever bother, cost for them is much lower. Also from killmails I did seen, it were around 3-5mil per catalyst. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18406
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Posted - 2016.11.14 11:49:09 -
[312] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
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Posted - 2016.11.14 14:53:10 -
[313] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Cade Windstalker
606
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Posted - 2016.11.14 15:26:32 -
[314] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there.
Gotta say Baltec1 you're one of the highlights of the forums. Always nice to see someone fairly reasonable around ready to jump in with actual evidence.
Sorry for any damage this does to your shitposting cred
And yeah, for comparison there are more than 10 pods suicide ganked in Amarr every day. 10 skiffs in a month is a mild annoyance in the grand scheme of things.
Mark O'Helm wrote:there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
Then you have no proof of their impact or activities and that makes discussing them pretty much pointless.
I may as well say that there's a super top secret goon Bomber fleet running around killing Titans, but their kills don't show up on zKill so there's no proof... |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18407
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Posted - 2016.11.14 17:26:18 -
[315] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3135
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Posted - 2016.11.14 17:34:11 -
[316] - Quote
"I know this thread is about the Orca, and imma let you finish-
But ganking is the worst thing of all time" - EVE-O Forums 20XX |
Cade Windstalker
606
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Posted - 2016.11.14 17:37:35 -
[317] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: What do NPC fleets have to do with anything?
NPC is a Corp (or Alliance, I honestly can't remember). That's their ticker. He's not talking about literal Rats pewing miners. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
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Posted - 2016.11.14 19:07:15 -
[318] - Quote
I meant players in an npc corp, working together as a fleet of at least 10 catalysts, an unknown count of scouts and at least 2 bumpers.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18407
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Posted - 2016.11.14 19:16:01 -
[319] - Quote
You do realise that km get posted anyway these days. I haven't manually posted a mail for several years now even on my NPC alts. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
254
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Posted - 2016.11.15 00:19:48 -
[320] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You do realise that km get posted anyway these days. I haven't manually posted a mail for several years now even on my NPC alts. They don't. Only if you post them manually or if the victim or the char with the final blow has an api key at zkb (or their corps). CCP publicly thought about the idea of making all kills available for a while but dismissed the idea eventually.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Anne Sol
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.11.15 11:01:06 -
[321] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math. Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space. I don't see this becoming a common thing. so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
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Captain Tardbar
Hentogaira Miners Alliance
1180
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Posted - 2016.11.15 14:09:16 -
[322] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Raw Matters wrote:Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This. I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge. Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca. Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.
If the Orca has 400k EHP which isn't hard to do. It takes about 23 cats.
I mean if you are a large Corp that isn't a problem, but if you got that many people you might want to do something more lucrative like gank freighters.
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18413
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Posted - 2016.11.15 19:06:10 -
[323] - Quote
Anne Sol wrote: so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
Now calculate the profit to be made on such a gank. |
Captain Tardbar
Hentogaira Miners Alliance
1181
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Posted - 2016.11.15 21:44:02 -
[324] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anne Sol wrote: so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
Now calculate the profit to be made on such a gank.
Maybe if the Orca was using ORE drones.
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
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Bitter Fremlin
Heimatar Enhanced Fleet Industries
5
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Posted - 2016.11.16 13:11:03 -
[325] - Quote
Note: For all those running Orca:Exhumer yield comparisons...
It would appear that max-boosted Exhumer laser yields are down some 20% since Ascension, e.g. a Hulk is down from 1920m3/cycle/laser to1650m3-ish. Whether that is a non-applied bonus bug or simply down to the Mining Foreman skill now giving boost duration buffs rather than the old-style yield buffs I'll leave for people smarter than me to determine. |
Madame Black
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2016.11.16 13:45:21 -
[326] - Quote
laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1225
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Posted - 2016.11.16 15:29:09 -
[327] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill. What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol) Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps. More of a part time nuisance than anything.
I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18416
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Posted - 2016.11.16 17:23:03 -
[328] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill. What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol) Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps. More of a part time nuisance than anything. I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.
Thats code. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
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Posted - 2016.11.16 19:46:05 -
[329] - Quote
Madame Black wrote:laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again. Why would you chose to not use bursts when the gains are far greater than the isk lost through fuel whether micromanaging them or not? |
Xa Charante
The Antiestablishmentarianists
0
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Posted - 2016.11.16 22:03:56 -
[330] - Quote
I think it's a bad idea not to allow Orca to self boost it's own drone yield. There is almost no incentive to boost others except to be helpful. |
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