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Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
When querying your corps Asset list, it would be nice when the API returns the location of the POS, it returns what real location the towers and its structures sits at, instead of what system the POS is located at.
When writing an asset tracker, I just had a thought about what happens if a corp happens to have more than one POS in the system? All labs, towers, and everything else ends up showing on the asset list as in the system, which makes it more difficult to ascertain what belongs to what. :(
One could reference /corp/StarBaseList.xml.aspx to get the location of the tower, but this won't help with what is at the POS, such as structures or containers hanging around. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
481
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
What I do for AHARM's tracker is have people put a special amount of a single item into each hangar (I use trit, and the amount is planet * 100 + moon, so P4m16 would be 416 trit). This works pretty well for us.
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
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My Blog
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TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
As you know, the starbase list has moonid for each tower, after that you are on your own.
There isn't realy a simply solution to it, and you would have to make your own data tables to make sense of it, where you have to map each pos-mod to a tower manually (yes it sucks)
The best way I have found doing this is finding the itemid for an item in a given hangar and use that to then retrieve an arrays itemid. And map that in its own table with type of hangar (lab,component factory etc etc) to which pos it's anchored at.
The least annoying way I have come up with is using the show info link URL you get from dragging an item into an in game chat channel hit enter, then copy paste the sent link into a normal text field (notepad,html form etc etc) this will give you a string like
Quote:( {= less than, =} greater than God I hate this forum)
GÇ£ SomeDude =} {=url=showinfo:yy//xxxxxxxx=}Enriched Uranium{=/url=} GÇ¥
The anatomy of this is quite simply GÇ£ {=URL=showinfo:TypeID//ItemID=}Item Name{=/url=}
To make more practical use of this I have a small web form where I select tower,type the name of the array and copy paste an url like above (linked from the hangar itself)
If the itemid is in the database asset table then I use it to find witch containing itemid it is (the array itself) and store that in a table mapping it to it's tower.
I have so far used this mainly to map our long term fuel storage and with the right sql I use this mapping method to calculate not only how long the towers themselves are running but also how long we can keep them running from storage.
(all API updated and calculated on a web-page)
Now I dont see a magic tool to do this, this should probably be something a corp\alliance should figure out on their own. (yes, once you get large enough you need your own corporate tools dev...)
(please oh please CCP do not change how this works)
Addendum: I can actualy use this show info 'trick' to view items in a container from corp hangar, or what fittings a ship in an SMA has on it (including cargo) |
Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting method, but kind of an annoying workaround for what I would figure would be part of the original source.
The next thing I wonder is since I have a GSC sitting at the POS whether or not the API will give its SYSTEM location or if it will give its MOON location..... |
TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
System location.
Clarifcation:
Since the assets api list only returns location ID, not the X,Y,Z coordinates.
The locationID is either systemID, or a stationID if memory serves.
Second addendum:
I would love a third starbase API where we could actualy get a list of the mods anchored near a given tower with the x,y,z coordinates.
I think that would work a lot better than having x.y,z in the assets list since this would only be applicable to stuff anchored out in space.
Granted we got a lot of stuff in space, but we have far more inside the stuff we have in space :P |
Xander Hunt
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:
(please oh please CCP do not change how this works)
I couldn't help but laugh at that. If I do manage to convince CCP on this change, don't dec me. ;)
The bonus my tool is going to have is that each item that is part of a groupID is going to be able to be renamed. So I won't see a list of all the Hurricanes I have, but the actual ships name. This will also come in handy when trying to figure out what station container is holding what item without having to be in EVE and clicking on each. Initially I WILL have to go through the process, but, it'd be a one time chore.
I also am not sure if containers, or even items in general, get a new ID if moved from one location to another. I'm also not sure if two new itemIDs are made if a stack is split, or, if one itemID remains and a new one is created.
Since each itemID in the API represents a unique item in the EVE universe what I can do is setup a new table that would indicate what itemID belongs to what location and just override what the locationID that is returned. Of course, limited to particular groupIDs. It'd be the same work load above by having to go through the list of items that are marked in the solar system instead of just at a moon.
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TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
I was only refering to that the show info URL method is the only way outside of api that I know of you can retrieve ItemId's.
This should be one of the bonuses of the 64bit item id's, they are no longer being reused, they might get destroyed, but they should be unique as long as the item remains unstack able. |
Xander Hunt
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 18:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:System location.
Clarifcation:
Since the assets api list only returns location ID, not the X,Y,Z coordinates.
The locationID is either systemID, or a stationID if memory serves.
Second addendum:
I would love a third starbase API where we could actualy get a list of the mods anchored near a given tower with the x,y,z coordinates.
I think that would work a lot better than having x.y,z in the assets list since this would only be applicable to stuff anchored out in space.
Granted we got a lot of stuff in space, but we have far more inside the stuff we have in space :P
That would be the root of my problem for the structures at the POS, or for that matter, anything left in space. What is returned by locationID in the API is the solarSystemID. mapDenormalize contains ALL locations in space (moons, belts, suns, etc) so I can't see why the link can't be made there. |
TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
In my guess it's simply a problem with ccp not giving us the x,y,z coordinates so we are forced to make do with what we can..
At first I tried something similar as Two-Step's method only I made the mistake of using strippers and my members couldnt stop messing with them... |
Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:In my guess it's simply a problem with ccp not giving us the x,y,z coordinates so we are forced to make do with what we can..
At first I tried something similar as Two-Step's method only I made the mistake of using strippers and my members couldnt stop messing with them...
Technically you get the XYZ from the location of the moon in mapDenormalize. The issue is that structures/stuff in space are associated to the solar system when you call the Assets API.
If an item is sitting no where near a location within the mapDenormalize, I could understand that it'd get associated to the solarSystemID. But in order to build the POS, you have to be at the moon (Which is given with another API call) but anything (Structures and stuff) within say 250km of that tower SHOULD get the same locationID, not the solarSystemID. Their internal database would have to hold the exact XYZ coordinates of any object in space. Calculating a distance from the POS XYZ location to where the structure is, is a nobrainer considering that we're told distances in the client in our overview.
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Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:In my guess it's simply a problem with ccp not giving us the x,y,z coordinates so we are forced to make do with what we can..
At first I tried something similar as Two-Step's method only I made the mistake of using strippers and my members couldnt stop messing with them...
I was just thinking.... If CCP were to NOT change the locationID given in the API, but instead ADD to the particular row the XYZ coordinate, WE can do the figuring on where the position of each item in space is on our own. All CCP has to do is give us the numbers. No additional calculating API side, just querying an extra single or three fields.
*goes and changes his OP* |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
K162
481
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 20:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:In my guess it's simply a problem with ccp not giving us the x,y,z coordinates so we are forced to make do with what we can..
At first I tried something similar as Two-Step's method only I made the mistake of using strippers and my members couldnt stop messing with them...
Hah. I also put the trit in a tab that most members can't access, so they don't usually mess things up...
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
What does CSM 6 do? |
TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 20:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would love having x y z coordinates, although I dont want to see them in the assets api, since almost 90% of the items in it doesn't need them.
What I would love (as I mentioned) is a brand new api call which only lists the items we anchor in space something like ItemId,Custom_name,x,y,z (I dont need typeid, we have that in the assets dump, but It probably couldnt hurt), The custom name field might also be a pipe dream but it would realy help us out, althoug if you grid map your pos you should be able to pin-point by the x y z alone.
We can then use that data alone to map out our towers modules etc without having to fill alot of fluff into the assets api call wich already gets quite large enough as it is, and we dont realy want x y z fields for all the items in the hangars\arrays (especially since we cant restack on pos's) as it is we just want to know where the hangar\factory is. |
Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.27 11:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
TorTorden wrote:I would love having x y z coordinates, although I dont want to see them in the assets api, since almost 90% of the items in it doesn't need them.
What I would love (as I mentioned) is a brand new api call which only lists the items we anchor in space something like ItemId,Custom_name,x,y,z (I dont need typeid, we have that in the assets dump, but It probably couldnt hurt), The custom name field might also be a pipe dream but it would realy help us out, althoug if you grid map your pos you should be able to pin-point by the x y z alone.
We can then use that data alone to map out our towers modules etc without having to fill alot of fluff into the assets api call wich already gets quite large enough as it is, and we dont realy want x y z fields for all the items in the hangars\arrays (especially since we cant restack on pos's (I mean repackage)) as it is we just want to know where the hangar\factory is.
Why make a new API if it is possible to have a toggle to whether or not the API displays the data or not? I know how large the API data could potentially get, but that doesn't mean a ~20 extra bytes of data per row that only includes data if the object is in space can't be there. It'd be one less call to the API servers.
The custom names, yes, I think it is a pipe dream. I recall once upon a time in the old forums how it was discussed and a dev said that they just couldn't figure out how to pull that information. Can't remember the exact details. |
Dragonaire
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.27 15:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just for a little history on this I thought I'd point out the Q&A part of the API over on Eve-id since no one else had.
http://wiki.eve-id.net/APIv2_Corp_StarbaseDetail_XML
As far as I know they haven't changed the server structure in a way that would change the original reason why it couldn't be done. Those of you looking to get XYZ of stuff I think are truly out of luck but it would be nice if they could at least give us the moonID instead of the solarsystemID and IMHO could lead to less work for them at startup and when doing some of the backend processing of a POS but they may see it differently.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal forum thread |
TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 15:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quote:So CCP doesn't save a moonID for starbase assets then? Surely there must be a way? Keep in mind im only asking for a moonID (wich is pretty static), no state or anything like that. Quote:I am quite sure they save anchored structures with x/y/z coordinates, and then build the POSes from towers and their nearby modules. And there will be a number of reasons why they probably do not want to export the x/y/z coordinates for the structures... for example you could then locate containers anchored at random 14au+ savespots, which right now you have no way to do ingame, and the API really should not expose anything that is not available ingame. Just a guess of cause :) --Ana
The way I read this it's the other way around, anchored items are stored with x y z coordinates in the DB and the tower tree that calculates what moon-pos power\cpu consumption etc is done with DOGMA, naturally DOGMA is the great big curtain we players shouldnGÇÖt peek through and I agree with that.
If memory serves (although I wasn't entirely sober at the time so I'm not betting a steak dinner on it) The entire X Y Z hoopla got started with prismX (a dev at the least) suggesting sending those with an API call at last years wh roundtable or one of the third-party dev tables.
If that was to be the case I'm just saying I dont want to have the xyz columns with my regular assets
- I get a 50-60 000 item stacks in my assets dump, of which barely 800 are anchored in space items,
- This data wouldn't change all that often for me so why put the extra load on the assets call ?
- And I'm lazy, it's easier for me to write a quick script for a new api call and dump into a new table(since I want them separated anyways), than it is to go back into my assets script and fix that..
As for moonid, yea I can see that being enough for almost all corps but for us wh dwellers it's still not enough since we have up to half a dozen hangars and the same for sma',s per pos, sure it would help identify the pos just not the array itself.
And with the new online timers that's probably just going to grow. |
Dragonaire
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 16:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
I understand WHs add another complexity to working with POSes. Correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't done anything with WHs but my understand is there is only one per system at a time. If that's true if all of the other POSes in a system used moonID then the only POS stuff that would be left with solarsystemID would be the ones in the WH right? so it might still solve the problem just having the moonID on the ones where it's known. Just a thought anyway if my understanding is correct.
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of Yapeal for Eve API.
Check out the Yapeal forum thread |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
89
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 17:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dragonaire wrote:I understand WHs add another complexity to working with POSes. Correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't done anything with WHs but my understand is there is only one per system at a time. If that's true if all of the other POSes in a system used moonID then the only POS stuff that would be left with solarsystemID would be the ones in the WH right? so it might still solve the problem just having the moonID on the ones where it's known. Just a thought anyway if my understanding is correct.
You can have as many POSes as there are moons, you can only anchor one POS per day however(because CCP is somehow unable to remove the old sov code for this). |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
14
|
Posted - 2011.12.28 17:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dragonaire wrote:I understand WHs add another complexity to working with POSes. Correct me if I'm wrong since I haven't done anything with WHs but my understand is there is only one per system at a time. If that's true if all of the other POSes in a system used moonID then the only POS stuff that would be left with solarsystemID would be the ones in the WH right? so it might still solve the problem just having the moonID on the ones where it's known. Just a thought anyway if my understanding is correct.
One per moon, actually. (I know my home system has quite a few towers.) |
Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.30 22:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quote:
* So CCP doesn't save a moonID for starbase assets then? Surely there must be a way? Keep in mind im only asking for a moonID (wich is pretty static), no state or anything like that.
-- I am quite sure they save anchored structures with x/y/z coordinates, and then build the POSes from towers and their nearby modules. And there will be a number of reasons why they probably do not want to export the x/y/z coordinates for the structures... for example you could then locate containers anchored at random 14au+ savespots, which right now you have no way to do ingame, and the API really should not expose anything that is not available ingame. Just a guess of cause :)
I don't buy this explanation, honestly. Who's "Random save spots"? The corps "random save spots", and only assuming a container of some sort happens to be there. Even then, exposing that information isn't going to make a lick of difference because we can't have our ships warp to an XYZ location in game. Not to mention, its THE CORPS RANDOM SAVE SPOTS. I can understand perhaps back in the day with just the limited and full API keys, but we've got a hell of a lot more flexibility with the new API system in which a key can be made, or, a toggle for whether or not the information is present or not.
The DOGMA stuff and what we, the end users, aren't supposed to see I can somewhat understand. Real world corporate secrets, yadda yadda. The client gets the XYZ locations of the objects in space pretty close to instantly on warp in from the server (Its in no way cached client side - Think of when you first approach a POS for the very first time), I just don't understand why a similar call can't be built to request that detail and throw it into the API (Existing or new).
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TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
17
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Posted - 2011.12.31 01:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
(Be warned bad syntax, spelling, grammar follows since Im both typing this on my tablet after dipping into the vodka)
Im not buying the infamous line myself either, here's my reasoning for it.
1
Even with x y z coordinates it wouldn't do anything other than tell us stuff is somewhere around over there (not to also mention that since this statement such safeapots have all been either moved or deleted by ccp)
2
We still have to probe someone at the safe spot unless we also have a bookmark in game. last I checked wrecks/cans where still not probeable (is that a word?)
with just x y z coordinates we still can't magick them into bm's unless someone proceeds to hack the games bookmark server (unleashing all kinds of dev aggro)
3
this would be for a corporate api key not a world accessible xml like the alliance listings.
If someone gets it that shouldn't have it it means YOU gave the key to someone you shouldn't have.
Bottomline even with x y z in the api not alot can be done outside of cooler tools from third party devs.
No i think simply that this is a problem mainly faced by larger scale wormhole operations, inow a very small amount of corporations in eve, and I didnt go into w space to have it easy., neither would I expect nor want special treatment.
(a couple of statues and our names remebered in song would be nice)
Not to mention ccp has had bigger problems to fix since incarna than this. |
Xander Hunt
7
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Posted - 2011.12.31 17:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Even in WHs, the system still stores data based on XYZ info when anchored/launched in space. WH space is like KSpace, 'cept that it has another universeID in map.Universe. Their system holds that info. I have assets out in Jspace, and even the old EVE Asset Manager tells me what system its in. No reason why XYZ can't be attached, aside from technical, which again I find hard to believe. |
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CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
467
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 10:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
I promised a resolution from itemID to (x,y,z) coordinates at Fan Fest 2011 and have yet to deliver. My shame would make the Marquis de Sade blush. 
I've just started resolving API defects again now so stuff is finally happening.
It will probably end up under both /char/ and /corp/ as characters might want to query the location of anchored containers or whatnot. Input on a similar form to the CharacterName call, a CSL of IDs.
This is all pending approval from other parties who might think that this data should not be exposed to the players at large. I doubt that as we did discuss this on FF11 but I'd rather announce the caveat as it is better to be safe than sorry. Also, I'm not sure on my available QA resources at the moment so deployment might be delayed.
~ CCP Prism X
EVE Database Developer
If anything in this post was informative or could be considered as 'good news' to you - chances are you've misread it. |
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TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.03 22:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
So If I read you right, this would be an api we query with a set of itemid's retrieved from corp assets list (or personal assets)
Giving us the ability to only ask for what we need to know and leave the rest, in short I love it. |
Xander Hunt
12
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Posted - 2012.01.05 14:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:I promised a resolution from itemID to (x,y,z) coordinates at Fan Fest 2011 and have yet to deliver. My shame would make the Marquis de Sade blush. I've just started resolving API defects again now so stuff is finally happening. It will probably end up under both /char/ and /corp/ as characters might want to query the location of anchored containers or whatnot. Input on a similar form to the CharacterName call, a CSL of IDs. This is all pending approval from other parties who might think that this data should not be exposed to the players at large. I doubt that as we did discuss this on FF11 but I'd rather announce the caveat as it is better to be safe than sorry. Also, I'm not sure on my available QA resources at the moment so deployment might be delayed.
I'm one of those kinda developers that'll push back a deadline to get it right, instead of fast. ;) You guys have been great this past expansion, so keep up the good work! Not to mention its the holidays, so, I kinda didn't expect a "Get right on it" kinda thing. ;)
I know its a WIP but could you give a potential example of what we're looking at querying, and maybe offer suggestions?
Myself, I wouldn't mind having the XYZ in the asset list, but some don't want it. If another API comes up, why not just have a list of all anchored items (One for /corp and one for /char) with just the ItemID and XYZ, then we can cross reference against ItemID?
Would there actually be a reason to grab personal anchored items in space, aside from jet cans? |
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CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
480
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 15:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
I guess an example would be something like:
api.eveonline.com/corp/Locations.xml.aspx?keyID=1&vCode=snakeHunting&ids=1,2,3
And the return would be something on the form of (with stuff stripped out to please the forums):
row itemID="1" itemName="DOOM POS" x="1984109842498" y="540899461984" z="19074984051"
row itemID="2" itemName="DOOM POS MODULE 1" x="1984109842398" y="540899461984" z="19074984151"
row itemID="3" itemName="DOOM POS MODULE 2" x="1984109842798" y="540899461984" z="19074983951"
As long as the associated corpID of the key is the owner of these items. Otherwise you'd just get the ID returned with empty fields and did someone the favour of caching his data.
The character counterpart would be quite similar, but only work for stuff owned by that character. One might infer that this gives you access back to translating shipIDs to their names.. and that is correct. As long as they are yours ofc.
And by all means bring in your own suggestions. I don't have endless time to finish this so the sooner the better. 
~ CCP Prism X
EVE Database Developer
If anything in this post was informative or could be considered as 'good news' to you - chances are you've misread it. |
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Xander Hunt
12
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Posted - 2012.01.05 15:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Is itemName the actual name of the object in space such as "My POS Structure" or is it going to be 'factory default' of "Corporate Hangar Array"?
Can the option of excluding the IDs on the URI provide all items out in space?
If an ids is given to an object that is not in space
- Would anything be returned?
- Is the itemName the in-game name of the item, such as a ship name?
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Dragonaire
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 17:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Don't know if it's possible but some people might find it useful have both the general name like "Corporate Hanger Array" and their alias/name for it. So maybe itemName and itemType fields? or might be better just to include typeID and let them map it if they need that and have itemName be their alias/name for it if that was the plan. I understand they can get the typeID from assetList etc where they get the itemID but most people seem to have issues figuring out how to do simple joins like that at times for their output
Finds camping stations from the inside much easier.
Designer of [url]http://code.google.com/p/yapeal/[/url] for Eve API.
Check out the [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7540[/url] |
Callean Drevus
Icosahedron Crafts and Shipping
Silent Infinity
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 19:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
That said, since we're querying itemID's anyway, will this also allow us to query an itemID that is not actually in space to get the personalized name? Or will this just be for items in space? Either would be fine, but the first would be awesome
Developer/Creator of EVE Marketeer
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
546
|
Posted - 2012.01.05 20:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:One might infer that this gives you access back to translating shipIDs to their names.. and that is correct. As long as they are yours ofc. That's quite awesome! Thank you!
Will this work for ships/cans in (corp) hangars? If so, I guess the coordinates are that of the station/POS module/etc.? |
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