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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 06:10:26 -
[1] - Quote
But, just thought it would be nice to have.
A MTU that will auto cloak up when not in use, in other words nothing being tractored and it auto cloaks so it stays hidden.
Let's hear it for auto cloaking MTU \0/ |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
562
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Posted - 2016.10.06 07:34:03 -
[2] - Quote
And what's the point about it? Got Ninja-Lootet once too much?
If somebody takes your stuff, you should stand your ground and defend it. It's called conflict driver (even if this one is a small one) and we need more of it and not less.
Not even talking about Stargates littered with cloaked MTU's to unveil other cloakers...
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18472
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Posted - 2016.10.06 09:17:50 -
[3] - Quote
You didn't think this through did you. What's the first (and only) thing an MTU will do when deployed?
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 09:37:51 -
[4] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:And what's the point about it? Got Ninja-Lootet once too much? If somebody takes your stuff, you should stand your ground and defend it. It's called conflict driver (even if this one is a small one) and we need more of it and not less. Not even talking about Stargates littered with cloaked MTU's to unveil other cloakers...
Actually it's too bad how many times I blue loot for 'ninja' looters, I don't care, I could take it or leave it, I've even offered to fleet them so they could loot freely but this is often met with hostility or just get ignored, I've yet to get even 1 taker for a fleet up so they can loot to their hearts content.
I had a guy aggress my MTU once, he stopped short of blowing it up, I blew it up for him with my drones, then kindly asked for the ISK to pay for a new one, he gave me 10 mil, I returned 2 mil because I only paid about 8 mil and change anyway.
So now especially in high 'ninja' loot areas I just blow up wrecks as I go, why, not to be an ass but to make the point, if you don't want to be friendly and at least accept my offer to fleet up then you don't deserve nothing because at that point your just being a fly buzzing around a pile of poo, the problem is not all the "scary" people flying about, I choose not to play their game and that is the best PVP of all. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18472
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Posted - 2016.10.06 09:41:32 -
[5] - Quote
K regardless of all that, what's the first thing an MTU does when you deploy it?
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 09:55:23 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:You didn't think this through did you. What's the first (and only) thing an MTU will do when deployed?
I never do, however I had a completely different reason for wanting a cloaky MTU;
1. MTU are only treated as a criminal offence but if someone kills my cargo container, or my drone, hell if we shoot an asteroid we get Concorde, yet anyone is free to shoot an MTU with only a criminal flag....makes no sense.
2. How great would it be to be able to mine roids, spit a can out, the unit tractors it in, loots, then returns too the hidden space, then, when it's full go get my hauler and pick up all the goods, rinse and repeat, this would make so many sad...makes it too hard for them to actually work for their food instead of seeing an MTU and scan down as easy (nearly), as a BS, instead they would have a harder time, or God forbid be cloaky and sneak up to find the locations as people cycle through.
I say it's like shooting fish in a barrel the way MTU are, oh I know it's meant to 'engage' players more, problem is that they want people to play on their terms, see when you actually make the seal work for its food it makes for better entertainment, right now it's couch potato hunters. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3556
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Posted - 2016.10.06 10:34:45 -
[7] - Quote
The reason delpoyables can be shot and only go suspect is because they are meant to increase interaction between players. Its one of the prices you pay for automated loot gathering. A price people are clearly willing to pay.
Edit- I also think ralph is trying to get you to realise that things cannot cloak if something is within 2km of them. But what does the mtu do?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
354
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Posted - 2016.10.06 11:12:14 -
[8] - Quote
A cloaky MTU might lead to some interesting gameplay. If someone knows that you have an MTU there, they can decloak it easily. Just drop something it will tractor. If someone takes the effort required to keep it concealed, it will remain safe.
Quote:How great would it be to be able to mine roids, spit a can out, the unit tractors it in, loots, then returns too the hidden space, then, when it's full go get my hauler and pick up all the goods
High sec mining might be the only place where it will be useful. Even then, if someone suspects you of using one, they just need to drop a jetcan with a bookmark. Abandon the jetcan, it gets tractored, revealing the MTU.
So maybe not even useful then. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1019
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Posted - 2016.10.06 12:54:15 -
[9] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:K regardless of all that, what's the first thing an MTU does when you deploy it? How and why is this relevant? It is not what it does WHILE there are things to tractor, this is about what happens when there is nothing left for it to tractor. On the off chance that you were trying to be clever(and failed by the way) to mention the 2,000 meter thingy that is easily dealt with since you can loot from 2,500 the tractors simply stop the object 2,400 meters away. Still works for the looting thingy and having a tractor shut off the early is not something that could not happen.
Daichi Yamato wrote:The reason delpoyables can be shot and only go suspect is because they are meant to increase interaction between players. Its one of the prices you pay for automated loot gathering. A price people are clearly willing to pay. Initial response is this post.
Hesod Adee wrote:A cloaky MTU might lead to some interesting gameplay. If someone knows that you have an MTU there, they can decloak it easily. Just drop something it will tractor. If someone takes the effort required to keep it concealed, it will remain safe. Having them cloak does not remove them as a content driver, it simply requires a little more effort on the part of the hunter. But I cannot scan it once it has cloaked? Glad you mention that, because once the owner warps away and leaves it sitting alone in space to do it's work it loses virtually all of the content driving ability. In high sec it would not be worth the effort to hunt and kill the character that killed you mtu because you can earn more by simply using that same time to run another mission or site. In low or nul I do not know anyone that leaves an MTU behind anyway so this change may increase the chances that someone would leave an MTU behind. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3557
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Posted - 2016.10.06 13:23:15 -
[10] - Quote
The issue with trying to stop it tractoring early is the server tick. When you try to open a container you will travel to it but not open it the moment you reach 2.5km because the server only checks whether you're within reach is once a second. This will happen when the wreck approaches the mtu as well.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18474
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Posted - 2016.10.06 13:26:34 -
[11] - Quote
No I'm not trying to be clever, I'm stating the obvious issue here and I was trying to encourage the op to see it too. The first thing these do is take all of the crap in space that they're able to move and surround themselves with it, even if you prevent it decloaking itself and l have it stop at 2600 you're still left with a big sphere of crap centered on its exact location.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 13:58:10 -
[12] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The reason delpoyables can be shot and only go suspect is because they are meant to increase interaction between players. Its one of the prices you pay for automated loot gathering. A price people are clearly willing to pay.
Edit- I also think ralph is trying to get you to realise that things cannot cloak if something is within 2km of them. But what does the mtu do?
Absolutely true, also that's exactly what I posted, I realise they want more interactive play between players, when alpha clones come...they'll gonna get it from me, not in the form of PVP they think but in a way they won't be expecting
Also your toon looks like Yu from SG1 . |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
847
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Posted - 2016.10.06 13:58:16 -
[13] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:No I'm not trying to be clever, I'm stating the obvious issue here and I was trying to encourage the op to see it too. The first thing these do is take all of the crap in space that they're able to move and surround themselves with it, even if you prevent it decloaking itself and l have it stop at 2600 you're still left with a big sphere of crap centered on its exact location.
Basically. Why I never saw the point to MTU's. Not worth the headaches. When I clean up stuff, I just make that the 15 minute break in a noctis. Some of my fits are medium to high activity play style with tank and prop and cap control, drones, target management and such....few minutes of lazy wreck cleaning nice to wind down for a bit.
Avoids the people messing with your MTU problem.
And if I want privacy, it gets me that. Got 2 chances to find me or my stuff. In the mission ship, in the noctis. Small windows of opportunity there. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 14:03:03 -
[14] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:A cloaky MTU might lead to some interesting gameplay. If someone knows that you have an MTU there, they can decloak it easily. Just drop something it will tractor. If someone takes the effort required to keep it concealed, it will remain safe. Quote:How great would it be to be able to mine roids, spit a can out, the unit tractors it in, loots, then returns too the hidden space, then, when it's full go get my hauler and pick up all the goods High sec mining might be the only place where it will be useful. Even then, if someone suspects you of using one, they just need to drop a jetcan with a bookmark. Abandon the jetcan, it gets tractored, revealing the MTU. So maybe not even useful then.
You see...this is what I mean, didn't think of this, that would be crazy to get your can found that way, you sir are a chess player. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
492
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Posted - 2016.10.06 14:27:35 -
[15] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:No I'm not trying to be clever, I'm stating the obvious issue here and I was trying to encourage the op to see it too. The first thing these do is take all of the crap in space that they're able to move and surround themselves with it, even if you prevent it decloaking itself and l have it stop at 2600 you're still left with a big sphere of crap centered on its exact location. Basically. Why I never saw the point to MTU's. Not worth the headaches. When I clean up stuff, I just make that the 15 minute break in a noctis. Some of my fits are medium to high activity play style with tank and prop and cap control, drones, target management and such....few minutes of lazy wreck cleaning nice to wind down for a bit. Avoids the people messing with your MTU problem. And if I want privacy, it gets me that. Got 2 chances to find me or my stuff. In the mission ship, in the noctis. Small windows of opportunity there.
I don't even bother anymore, if someone comes in I either blue the loot or just blow up everything, depending on how apathetic I'm feeling about loot that day, also sold my Noctis, it mostly collected dust, I prefer a small frigate and some drones, deploy drones set to follow drones, take break, come back and fly off. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18476
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Posted - 2016.10.06 14:32:09 -
[16] - Quote
I PvE in my regular PvP fits so that'll give you some idea as to how I approach suspects.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
354
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Posted - 2016.10.06 14:47:42 -
[17] - Quote
Now that I think about it, if I was working for CCP I'd give everyone a cloaky MTU just to see how players use them and how they complain when they figure out how hard it is to keep them cloaked. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2395
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 16:42:25 -
[18] - Quote
I don't understand why people bother posting 'ideas' with absolutely no chance of happening.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1038
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Posted - 2016.10.06 18:45:49 -
[19] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:I don't understand why people bother posting 'ideas' with absolutely no chance of happening.
Because they figure at some point, with enough of them, they will convince CCP it's a good idea even if we are not. People also tend to post BS (and I don't mean battleships) before a second thought, so that never really helps.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
493
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Posted - 2016.10.06 19:45:41 -
[20] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:I don't understand why people bother posting 'ideas' with absolutely no chance of happening.
Well....I did title it correctly no? |
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
493
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Posted - 2016.10.06 19:51:31 -
[21] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:I don't understand why people bother posting 'ideas' with absolutely no chance of happening. Because they figure at some point, with enough of them, they will convince CCP it's a good idea even if we are not. People also tend to post BS (and I don't mean battleships) before a second thought, so that never really helps.
People put forth stuff good and bad, if we all had perfect ideals the games landscape would be different, but again it's not a matter of 1 ideal being perfect nor throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks, one ideal could lead to another unexpected path as it gets others thinking, this is what I believe many forget, lose this and you get stifling. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1039
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Posted - 2016.10.06 22:04:25 -
[22] - Quote
Well, I will point out that I wouldn't necessarily call this the worst idea.
Still, even you have to admit, most "ideas" as of late have largely been instances that fall into what I described. Some ideas have shown good merit and are genuinely constructive in nature, even when serious question related to their affects on Eve as a whole are brought into question. Most, however, tend to be what the OP wants and works for them without consideration to how it fits for the rest of Eve, or even without considering why something is the way it is in the first place. Worse yet is that quite a few of these ideas are constantly resubmitted by people who seem to almost on intention refuse to dig a little to see if it has already been suggested and, if so, what various issues and counterpoints have already been raised in the past. You are right that no idea can be perfect in every way, but many have been laughably ignorant ones.
To clarify, this is the first instance of this idea I've seen, so it's new territory in some respects. It also does sound like you have given this some thought, which is more than I can say I tend to see at least. I disagree that this idea, however, is worth it's weight, if you will: too many ways to break or invalidate its function, I believe it's contrary to why MTU's are how they are already, and I still don't see the benefit of them cloaking.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
292
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Posted - 2016.10.06 23:58:32 -
[23] - Quote
I would rather have a Citadel module that cost fuel and sends out NPCs to loot and salvage for me then a cloaky MTU. And be able to charge an ISK value to people who use it. Could be something tied to asset safety. So it works for everyone in system if they don't loot/salvage in the two hour window but would then charge them for if they want it. After say 30 days it would be offered to the citadel owner.
Don't know how it would work for multiple citadels in system. Maybe auto pick the closest/cheapest.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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FT Cold
R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
89
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Posted - 2016.10.07 01:28:27 -
[24] - Quote
What will buble kill if he can't find MTUs anymore? I'm not willing to risk it. -1 |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
354
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Posted - 2016.10.07 04:12:19 -
[25] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:I don't understand why people bother posting 'ideas' with absolutely no chance of happening. This idea does have a chance though. As an item CCP gives out for April Fools. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1020
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Posted - 2016.10.07 12:48:58 -
[26] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The issue with trying to stop it tractoring early is the server tick. When you try to open a container you will travel to it but not open it the moment you reach 2.5km because the server only checks whether you're within reach is once a second. This will happen when the wreck approaches the mtu as well. And yet the server can calculate when and how to vector my ship to enter and maintain a 2.500 meter orbit around an object in space and the server ticks do not cause any problems with that. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1924
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Posted - 2016.10.07 13:26:47 -
[27] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:No I'm not trying to be clever, I'm stating the obvious issue here and I was trying to encourage the op to see it too. The first thing these do is take all of the crap in space that they're able to move and surround themselves with it, even if you prevent it decloaking itself and l have it stop at 2600 you're still left with a big sphere of crap centered on its exact location. There is one thing tho. When garbage is collected around MTU and it still got cloaked you won't see it on d-scan. And you won't pin it down with probes.
Need to say implemented this way MTUs will be nice thing for me to have Usually when i rat i drop MTUs at the end of anomaly so it only can be found through scanning. And one day went to CTA i left some MTUs in space. And got one guy scanned and killed one of them (was able to get back in time to force him out and scoop other MTUs). Having cloakable MTUs such conflict would have lesser chances to happen.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
1041
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Posted - 2016.10.07 17:22:52 -
[28] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Having cloakable MTUs such conflict would have lesser chances to happen.
Exactly.
Ever wonder why you only get a suspect timer for splashing one?
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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