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Professor Agony
Moon Moon United
14
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Posted - 2016.10.09 11:43:47 -
[31] - Quote
risora wrote:problem is there no conquer mechanic . if a experianced alliance war declared and won and then had that corp assimulated into there alliance they would be abit slower in declaring if the prospect of winning was having to protect 300 carebears or new bros afterwards lol That would be very interesting. I couldn't even begin to imagine the backlash that would get, but interesting nonetheless. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4454
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Posted - 2016.10.09 11:45:55 -
[32] - Quote
There's really not such a thing as a" large hauler corp". The corps that run dedicated hauling services aren't actually that big and their loss rates are near zero.
In any scenario it doesn't make sense for an defender to complain that the aggressor is smaller than them, the alternative is that the group they're at war being the same size or larger than they are, in which case the situation would be much worse because they'd encounter the enemy more frequently and in greater numbers.
I think those people were under the mistaken impression that if small groups didn't declare war on them nobody would declare war on them. What actually happened when wars were changed in ways that made them less viable for small groups is the members of those groups formed much, much larger groups to share the increased financial burden and mitigate the new risks involved.
Anyway, what happens when a small group of people declares war on a larger one is entirely dependent on the preparedness and skill levels of both groups. It's entirely typical for a highsec industrialist corp to not have ever given any consideration as to what they're going to do when someone declares war on them, regardless of the size of the attacker. Obviously when that's the case they're going to get plowed hard because the members will either react at an individual level, which will typically result in them hiding because nobody wants to fight a war by themselves, or not reacting at all, in which case they get blown up while mining or whatever.
In a case where the industrialist group actually has given consideration to their own defense and has either mercenaries lined up, has their own, effective, defense plan, or intends to use both then being much larger than the attacker they'd be able to inflict some horribly embarrassing losses on the attacker. In times long passed that would result in the attacker issuing a retraction of the war declaration, ending the war, but that functionality has been removed. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45129
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Posted - 2016.10.09 11:51:27 -
[33] - Quote
Professor Agony wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Professor Agony wrote:One thing this has made me notice is that I need to at the very least include a new disclaimer on our ads so they know this is a very real scenario they can find themselves in while in our corp. This is an inherent part of being in a corp, it's a deficiency on CCPs part that this isn't clearly and frequently communicated. There's also a problem in that the war declaration system work extremely poorly at small scales, but very well at larger scales. As a result you'll find that most of the time the people who are declaring war on you will be pretty numerous and much better equipped than you which is going to make fighting back pretty hard. Oddly the opposite used to be true in the past and people used to routinely post threads complaining that it was unfair for a 5 man wardec corp to declare on their 250 man alliance because [REASONS]. I'll do my best to communicate this to the new guys coming in. I wasn't really prepared for this situation, and I'm sure that is painfully obvious at this point, but now I feel more confident about it. I totally agree with what Vimsy wrote about scale. It's less fun now for smaller hunter groups than it used to be and the current mechanics and associated mechanics favour large groups that blanket declare wars. They'll be larger and better prepared than most of the highsec Corps they declare war on, so if you take a fight to them, do so only because it will be fun to you, realising that you'll be delivering to them what they want, which doesn't encourage them to end the war.
Easiest is to analyse their killboard and then avoid all the places they are active. For example, for Marmites last 5000 kills, they breakdown by Region as:
Genesis:65 Kor-Azor:2 Verge Vendor:240 Derelik:2 Heimatar:81 Tash-Murkon:43 The Forge:536 Molden Heath:5 Devoid:1 Domain:40 Placid:22 Metropolis:387 Sinq Laison:181 The Citadel:2327 Kador:6 Essence:238 Lonetrek:133 Khanid:656 Everyshore:35
That leaves the following regions with highsec systems that Marmites haven't been active in at all in that set:
Aridia Black Rise Solitude The Bleak Lands
They are obviously very active in The Citadel, Khanid and The Forge, but not so much in other regions.
Would be relatively easy to move your guys either to one of the last 4 regions (with no Marmite activity) or one of the regions with very low activity and then play relatively normally for the duration of the war.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4458
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Posted - 2016.10.09 12:03:26 -
[34] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:They'll be larger and better prepared than most of the highsec Corps they declare war on, so if you take a fight to them, do so only because it will be fun to you, realising that you'll be delivering to them what they want, which doesn't encourage them to end the war.
This really depends on the way you fight and how effective you're able to be. If what you're doing consists of throwing newbies at them and giving them "fights" in which they achieve kills with no or negligible losses then it's true.
The thing to do is inflict punishment on isolated individuals and getting away before they can retaliate significantly while avoiding larger scale engagements where they can employ their superior assets. Like I said before this worked much better when aggressors could actually retract wars and when highsec PVP was less hub-camping oriented but it's still an effective way of deterring aggressors from messing with you in the future while also providing interesting content for your own corp. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
45129
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Posted - 2016.10.09 12:10:02 -
[35] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:They'll be larger and better prepared than most of the highsec Corps they declare war on, so if you take a fight to them, do so only because it will be fun to you, realising that you'll be delivering to them what they want, which doesn't encourage them to end the war. This really depends on the way you fight and how effective you're able to be. If what you're doing consists of throwing newbies at them and giving them "fights" in which they achieve kills with no or negligible losses then it's true. The thing to do is inflict punishment on isolated individuals and getting away before they can retaliate significantly while avoiding larger scale engagements where they can employ their superior assets. Like I said before this worked much better when aggressors could actually retract wars and when highsec PVP was less hub-camping oriented but it's still an effective way of deterring aggressors from messing with you in the future while also providing interesting content for your own corp. As usual, I agree with you completely.
I guess I kind of silently implied that most highsec Corps aren't prepared/able to inflict damage on isolated members of their attackers and/or aren't able to set a good trap to escalate something larger. If Corps can, then that's even better.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18498
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Posted - 2016.10.09 13:28:46 -
[36] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:They'll be larger and better prepared than most of the highsec Corps they declare war on, so if you take a fight to them, do so only because it will be fun to you, realising that you'll be delivering to them what they want, which doesn't encourage them to end the war. This really depends on the way you fight and how effective you're able to be. If what you're doing consists of throwing newbies at them and giving them "fights" in which they achieve kills with no or negligible losses then it's true. The thing to do is inflict punishment on isolated individuals and getting away before they can retaliate significantly while avoiding larger scale engagements where they can employ their superior assets. Like I said before this worked much better when aggressors could actually retract wars and when highsec PVP was less hub-camping oriented but it's still an effective way of deterring aggressors from messing with you in the future while also providing interesting content for your own corp. As usual, I agree with you completely. I guess I kind of silently implied that most highsec Corps aren't prepared/able to inflict damage on isolated members of their attackers and/or aren't able to set a good trap to escalate something larger. If Corps can, then that's even better. As stated, 21 of anything is going to mess you up pretty badly if they catch you alone
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
287
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Posted - 2016.10.09 14:19:21 -
[37] - Quote
Marmite are mercs, so it's also possible someone paid them to dec you, instead of them doing it just for more targets. Do your miners find themselves competing with another corp for rocks/ice? |
ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
378
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Posted - 2016.10.09 14:52:51 -
[38] - Quote
Quote: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
CCP Falcon has outlined his thoughts on EVE and touched on this issue Here. I would also point out that PVP can not be avoided in eve. In Fact if you review the EVE FAQ its listed at 7.2 "CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
As this issue has been discussed in depth before, I will close this thread.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to Evemails.
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