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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18498
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Posted - 2016.10.09 17:27:14 -
[1] - Quote
Remove the NPC Corp Restrictions on Player Movement so that we may (hopefully) create better NPC corps for new pilots
Some time ago the CSM tabled the notion of social corps. from memory this was a controversial proposal with many and varied opinions , from joyous applause to knee jerk reactions ,flaming-pants-on-head hysteria, wailing and gnashing of teeth being among some of the notable reactions.
Whilst still apposed to that particular idea (still have singe marks on the back of my head) the spirit of the idea (or something broadly similar) has somewhat stuck with me and the topic came up lastnight in a lengthy discussion.
We can pretty much all agree that NPC corps can be poisonous ... could be a better place for newpilots, and that the alternative of joining an established player corp or creating their own puts them directly in the firing line of an alliance like mine . given the state of NPC and the potential for a new pilot to end up in a crappy punching bag corp with an absentee (or incompetent) ceo, that there is a need here and with Alphas on the horizon its a need that should be addressed.
the aim of Social Corps (or my limited and biased remembrance of it anyway) was to allow mates and in particular new pilots to band together without immediately becoming a legitimate target
so
I think the restriction on player movement between npc corporations should be lifted, largely to avoid the situations i have described above but with the added bonus of veterans with an altruistic streak (you know who you are) could actually take their mains (with the implied reputation) into the poisonous echo chambers less than desirable npc environments and potentially shape them up a bit.
i dont think this hurts anything as the carrot of owning structures and all of the other benefits that come with being part of a player corp are still there while allowing newbros who just arent ready for wars to be together (ngwaaaaaaaa) and also enabling vets to check up on the health of the environment without needing to roll new characters with no reputation or credibility.
Have at it lads id love some feedback *activates thermal hardeners*
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1301
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Posted - 2016.10.09 20:02:40 -
[2] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
We can pretty much all agree that NPC corps can be poisonous ... could be a better place for newpilots, and that the alternative of joining an established player corp or creating their own puts them directly in the firing line of an alliance like mine .
Let's be honest, compared to most of the NPC corp chats, diving face first into a pool filled with rubbing alcohol and razor blades seems like a good time.
My only caveat would be that they have to move to one of the NPC corps of their race, and not just any NPC corp at all.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18502
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Posted - 2016.10.09 20:44:36 -
[3] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
We can pretty much all agree that NPC corps can be poisonous ... could be a better place for newpilots, and that the alternative of joining an established player corp or creating their own puts them directly in the firing line of an alliance like mine .
Let's be honest, compared to most of the NPC corp chats, diving face first into a pool filled with rubbing alcohol and razor blades seems like a good time. My only caveat would be that they have to move to one of the NPC corps of their race, and not just any NPC corp at all. Why? The racial division in NPC hardly serves anything more than lore sensibly, and keeping it still leaves me out of the loop if my mates all roll galente because : sunglasses : at this point we either look at the recruitment channel (o______-¦), or form up on our own and potentially run smack into ventetta,marmite,atype,whoever. I think NPC standings could effect it if you're set on putting restrictions in place but I don't see why they should have to become legitimately targetable just to be under the same banner as there mate's.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
704
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Posted - 2016.10.09 21:34:53 -
[4] - Quote
I'm all for this idea. Being able to freely move between the starter corps would be a boon.
Of course, I'd love to be able to join any NPC group (with reasonable exceptions, such as Emperor Family, Senate / Supreme Court / President, SoE, SoCT, etc), but that's a secondary concern to having the ability to join existing to chars to any of the starter corps.
For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5903
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Posted - 2016.10.09 21:45:20 -
[5] - Quote
You could simply create a new character in the NPC corp of choice.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18506
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Posted - 2016.10.09 22:07:53 -
[6] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:You could simply create a new character in the NPC corp of choice. but why is that simpler than just hoping corp, because :CCP: is why and thats about it.
do you have a reason why it is the way it is beyond lor or dev time? i don't and i don't see who this hurts either.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5904
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Posted - 2016.10.09 22:58:33 -
[7] - Quote
It is the way it is because CCP's emphasis was on getting into player-run corporations.
Why do you need to hide in NPC corps when you've been quite successfully living the lowsec dream for years?
Adding veteran players back into toxic NPC corp chat is not going to make NPC corp chat less toxic. Given the behaviour of many groups, I'd suspect that allowing veteran players to migrate between NPC corps at their leisure would lead to further harassment, baiting, doxxing, and general abuse.
The barrier to entry of creating a new character has been high enough so far to restrain the trolls and misanthropes.
I would rejoin my alma mater in a heartbeat. At least I'd have people to talk to who are online when I am, and aren't me :D
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3559
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Posted - 2016.10.09 23:32:29 -
[8] - Quote
Not only should you be able to move around npc corps, but I'd like some npc corps to be purposed to activities like mission running, mining and exploration. Places where like minded individuals can meet peeps.
That AND social corps should be a thing. :3
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18506
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Posted - 2016.10.09 23:35:15 -
[9] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:It is the way it is because CCP's emphasis was on getting into player-run corporations.
Why do you need to hide in NPC corps when you've been quite successfully living the lowsec dream for years?
Adding veteran players back into toxic NPC corp chat is not going to make NPC corp chat less toxic. Given the behaviour of many groups, I'd suspect that allowing veteran players to migrate between NPC corps at their leisure would lead to further harassment, baiting, doxxing, and general abuse.
The barrier to entry of creating a new character has been high enough so far to restrain the trolls and misanthropes.
I would rejoin my alma mater in a heartbeat. At least I'd have people to talk to who are online when I am, and aren't me :D The idea here is specifically to cut down on the amount of newbies starting Corps just to be in the same "clan" only to be chewed up Because they've put themselves in a position to be. I'd like to see healthier and more robust Corps starting up and I believe giving players more latitude in what they're doing early on might help with this
Veterans are already in these Corps trolling and spouting nonsense now though and if you're unlucky enough to be in a particularly toxic one you'r options are Crappy NPC or a potential plowing in a war.
Obviously we want them in good corp's with solid leadership that will facilitate their aims and growth but realistically not everyone can find one in highsec and many aren't ready/interested in low/null/what space
So in the interim why not make NPC a healthier place for newbies to be in. If one has a less toxic atmosphere than another , why shouldn't a newbro be allowed to join it with his mates?
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
172
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Posted - 2016.10.10 00:59:37 -
[10] - Quote
Personally, I'd make the npc corps deccable. More than just salty bears call NPC corp home. Many a neutral scout, remote rep, ecm alt, frieghter alt, and others call NPC corp home. This creates a kind of unfair, yet logical situation in which anyone can find safety from wars by retreating to the warm embrace of NPC Corp. In spite of that we recommend that people join up with a player corp and sing the praises of such. Is it really fair to tell new players surrender almost absolute safety when many of us rely on the same for alt work? Or am I really the only one exploiting this particular advangtage?
Allowing them to be deccable, even for some arbitrarily high weekly cost, would put an end to this particular exploit and the echo-chamber effect.
My shtick, anyway. I agree that something should be done, because what we have now is unintentionally (I hope) destructive. |
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1151
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Posted - 2016.10.10 01:11:02 -
[11] - Quote
+1. Yes.
Alternatively, cut the number of starter Corps from 12 to 4 and allow people dropping to an NPC Corp from a player Corp, the ability to drop back to their starter Corp.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
422
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Posted - 2016.10.10 08:33:08 -
[12] - Quote
I understand the motivation but don't see this as the only, or even best way to achieve it. A group of friends can quickly and easily create their own corporation. Train an ALT to Corp Management 1 or 2 as necessary and make them CEO. You can drop corp if wardecced and rejoin when the war is over - only takes a second each way. There are still systems where you can rent an office for 10K ISK/month. Low or no tax on bounties and mission rewards - lots of benefits to having your own corporation. Wardecs are a minor nuisance unless you have vulnerable infrastructure. Chat channels are easy to setup, why should you care which NPC corp you end up in when dropping corp?
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Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
97
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Posted - 2016.10.10 08:42:57 -
[13] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Personally, I'd make the npc corps deccable. More than just salty bears call NPC corp home. Many a neutral scout, remote rep, ecm alt, frieghter alt, and others call NPC corp home. This creates a kind of unfair, yet logical situation in which anyone can find safety from wars by retreating to the warm embrace of NPC Corp. In spite of that we recommend that people join up with a player corp and sing the praises of such. Is it really fair to tell new players surrender almost absolute safety when many of us rely on the same for alt work? Or am I really the only one exploiting this particular advangtage?
Allowing them to be deccable, even for some arbitrarily high weekly cost, would put an end to this particular exploit and the echo-chamber effect.
My shtick, anyway. I agree that something should be done, because what we have now is unintentionally (I hope) destructive.
My idea for this back in the days was to automatically enlist all NPC corp members in FW.
@OP: I like the idea, but would restrict it to starting corps. I think I read something about standing loss when shooting/podding someone in an NPC corp a while back and we don't want everybody to join the one that runs Jita 4-4.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
849
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Posted - 2016.10.10 13:47:03 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Veterans are already in these Corps trolling and spouting nonsense now though and if you're unlucky enough to be in a particularly toxic one you'r options are Crappy NPC or a potential plowing in a war.
Obviously we want them in good corp's with solid leadership that will facilitate their aims and growth but realistically not everyone can find one in highsec and many aren't ready/interested in low/null/what space
So in the interim why not make NPC a healthier place for newbies to be in. If one has a less toxic atmosphere than another , why shouldn't a newbro be allowed to join it with his mates?
Valid points and I like this idea.
Been a while since I did the NPC corp dump between real player corps on the combat char but do recall hating that day or 2 stuck in random npc corp. The chat....scary really. Wanted to jump in and put in my .02 isk but...only there till cleared from last home to join new one.
There is the current workaround of making your own chat rooms to keep comms up but this a nice added step for those who want to be same corp all the same.
For good or bad (depending on peoples outlooks, me I say let people play how they want, want to chill in NPC its their time and money) people will be in NPC. Making it more tolerable not a bad thing to do. |
radkid10
University of Caille Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2016.10.10 14:03:35 -
[15] - Quote
I think everybody should go into one npc Corporation when they first start out but have somebody police it |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18529
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Posted - 2016.10.10 14:35:59 -
[16] - Quote
radkid10 wrote:I think everybody should go into one npc Corporation when they first start out but have somebody police it Well this idea also allows for us to somewhat do this. Obviously we would have no more power than the next guy but at least we could take a character in there with its own reputation and credibility.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18529
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Posted - 2016.10.10 14:40:50 -
[17] - Quote
Do Little wrote:I understand the motivation but don't see this as the only, or even best way to achieve it. A group of friends can quickly and easily create their own corporation. Train an ALT to Corp Management 1 or 2 as necessary and make them CEO. You can drop corp if wardecced and rejoin when the war is over - only takes a second each way. There are still systems where you can rent an office for 10K ISK/month. Low or no tax on bounties and mission rewards - lots of benefits to having your own corporation. Wardecs are a minor nuisance unless you have vulnerable infrastructure. Chat channels are easy to setup, why should you care which NPC corp you end up in when dropping corp?
Yeah I agree that this isn't the only or best way to achieve it, I do think it's one of the simplest things that could be done, on the surface anyway (obviously scary code non withstanding).
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1302
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Posted - 2016.10.10 14:42:41 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Elenahina wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
We can pretty much all agree that NPC corps can be poisonous ... could be a better place for newpilots, and that the alternative of joining an established player corp or creating their own puts them directly in the firing line of an alliance like mine .
Let's be honest, compared to most of the NPC corp chats, diving face first into a pool filled with rubbing alcohol and razor blades seems like a good time. My only caveat would be that they have to move to one of the NPC corps of their race, and not just any NPC corp at all. Why? Because as new people join the game, the potential exists for them to actually be placed into a starter corp that's empty. If Jita teaches us nothing else, it shows us that people will go where the people are. It's not unreasonable to think that you'll end up with some NPC corps that are devoid of people, and if, as a new player, you end up in a corp that's dead, you might be less inclined to hang on to the game and scale the Cliff of Learning before reaching the Plateau of Competence.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people be able to switch NPC corps, especially if older players want to help out with rookies. But, I think we need to keep in mind the natural human tendency to congregate and insure that rookie corp chats aren't left with no one in them.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18529
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Posted - 2016.10.10 15:08:32 -
[19] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Elenahina wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
We can pretty much all agree that NPC corps can be poisonous ... could be a better place for newpilots, and that the alternative of joining an established player corp or creating their own puts them directly in the firing line of an alliance like mine .
Let's be honest, compared to most of the NPC corp chats, diving face first into a pool filled with rubbing alcohol and razor blades seems like a good time. My only caveat would be that they have to move to one of the NPC corps of their race, and not just any NPC corp at all. Why? Because as new people join the game, the potential exists for them to actually be placed into a starter corp that's empty. If Jita teaches us nothing else, it shows us that people will go where the people are. It's not unreasonable to think that you'll end up with some NPC corps that are devoid of people, and if, as a new player, you end up in a corp that's dead, you might be less inclined to hang on to the game and scale the Cliff of Learning before reaching the Plateau of Competence. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people be able to switch NPC corps, especially if older players want to help out with rookies. But, I think we need to keep in mind the natural human tendency to congregate and insure that rookie corp chats aren't left with no one in them. That's actually a fairly valid concern , I hadn't considered that. I don't think I have an answer for it either right now. I'll give it some thought though.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
851
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Posted - 2016.10.11 04:47:45 -
[20] - Quote
Elenahina wrote: Because as new people join the game, the potential exists for them to actually be placed into a starter corp that's empty. If Jita teaches us nothing else, it shows us that people will go where the people are. It's not unreasonable to think that you'll end up with some NPC corps that are devoid of people, and if, as a new player, you end up in a corp that's dead, you might be less inclined to hang on to the game and scale the Cliff of Learning before reaching the Plateau of Competence.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people be able to switch NPC corps, especially if older players want to help out with rookies. But, I think we need to keep in mind the natural human tendency to congregate and insure that rookie corp chats aren't left with no one in them.
Valid concern but...
We can argue getting dumped in a random corp filled with idiots can be as detrimental. Its the idiots who can ruin the experience for people as well. Hell sometimes silence in a vacuum might be better. I don't even read jita local anymore. I go on my one man's corp channel and live a much happier eve life when there for a bit.
They (the idiots) also tend to be the most vocal. Its not that good players aren't vocal. its just, well...we tend to be actually playing the game more. Trolling the noobs in NPC or actually working our few hours of precious game time....it always seems like trolls have the time for the former, more normal players have little time to "save" the corp chat as it were so we are the latter.
Plus your issue can have a light at the end of the tunnel as it may get some people working to clean up their NPC chat. Why is everyone going here? Lets fix that. You can make people try for higher bars. Somewhere in the years at this game I have seen even eve reddit sections get better. Its not the complete cesspit it was imo and I don't dread going to it at times for looks overs nearly as much anymore. In the past before some effort went into cleaning it up....avoided the place like the place really. You can make eve players better people and posters...this may hope get that going for a player who has been same NPC for a long time. |
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1373
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Posted - 2016.10.11 09:49:33 -
[21] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Elenahina wrote: Because as new people join the game, the potential exists for them to actually be placed into a starter corp that's empty. If Jita teaches us nothing else, it shows us that people will go where the people are. It's not unreasonable to think that you'll end up with some NPC corps that are devoid of people, and if, as a new player, you end up in a corp that's dead, you might be less inclined to hang on to the game and scale the Cliff of Learning before reaching the Plateau of Competence.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people be able to switch NPC corps, especially if older players want to help out with rookies. But, I think we need to keep in mind the natural human tendency to congregate and insure that rookie corp chats aren't left with no one in them.
Valid concern but... We can argue getting dumped in a random corp filled with idiots can be as detrimental. Its the idiots who can ruin the experience for people as well. Hell sometimes silence in a vacuum might be better. I don't even read jita local anymore. I go on my one man's corp channel and live a much happier eve life when there for a bit.
I don't disagree - which is why I believe it's not a bad idea in general, but as a rookie, you need that guidance that only other, more experienced, players can give. Help chat is fine, as far as it goes. But. as you said, some the NPC chats have a fairly poor signal to noise ratio, so I am not against the idea as much as I am this particular implementation.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Korobov Tesla
Man Evolved
2
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Posted - 2016.10.21 04:46:44 -
[22] - Quote
I think it would be cool to switch NPC corps because my race is Caldari, but the Caldari suck and their ships are ugly so I started flying Gallente ships but will never be able to "join" the Gallente which sucks IMO or Minmitar who have really cool lore.
Now as for chat "toxicity" I can't really comment on that because I am not a SJW... A few random assholes making "poopoo" and "peepee" jokes isn't going to deeply offend me and make me seek a safe space like it does for some. |
Dior Ambraelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.10.21 11:45:59 -
[23] - Quote
I like the idea of moving around in NPC and rookie corps, though I think the limitation could be standings based. If you want to join other factions' corps, you need to prove yourself first. The main reason I didn't tried FW yet because - as much as I understand - solo joining FW means I have to leave my current corp, and I won't be able to return here, where I met some nice people (some are 7 years or more old) I enjoy being with.
I can't say anything about chat toxicity, I am one of those few people who thinks1 char is enough to handle, but as I heard from others I was quite lucky for picking this rookie corp, because the others are much worse.
Also, why not having at least 1 CCP/ISD mod online in every NPC corp players can join? This could help a lot too.
If you want an intelligent argument, please do, I'm up for it!
But if you want a trolling contest, I will win it by simply not participating.
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Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
675
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Posted - 2016.10.21 23:53:47 -
[24] - Quote
Personally, the entire 'corp' idea is something of a one-trick pony to me.
Everything gets dumped into the corp bucket, then your corp is either added to an alliance bucket or not.
Corps are a PITA to run and overly complex due to their nature of just how much stuff is going on in them. Having said that, they're somewhat fine as they are.
NPC corps are looking to be trimmed heavily if the structure tea leaves are being read right so I'm not sure about this Ralph, but it sounds reasonable.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
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