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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Vicata Heth
Bank Of E
112
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:32:04 -
[271] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would be pretty easy to figure out if CCP mentioned anything about this and whether or not it played a part in the new EULA changes in this dev blog. But they didn't. Wonder why?
Why should they?
Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case. |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
138
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:33:13 -
[272] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Let's see...Somer Blink, RMTing. IWI, RMTing. EVE Cassino, multiple EULA violations...we aren't starting to see a pattern here? Yes, a certain very popular eve betting site is not on that list and never was. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5322
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:35:06 -
[273] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Let's see...Somer Blink, RMTing. IWI, RMTing. EVE Cassino, multiple EULA violations...we aren't starting to see a pattern here? Yes, a certain very popular eve betting site is not on that list and never was.
And have you been paying attention to things like this?
http://www.pcgamer.com/state-regulator-orders-valve-to-halt-csgo-skin-gambling-through-steam/
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:38:49 -
[274] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would be pretty easy to figure out if CCP mentioned anything about this and whether or not it played a part in the new EULA changes in this dev blog. But they didn't. Wonder why?
Why should they? Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case.
It is not knee-jerk.
1. They put up with Somer Blink and that nonsense.
2. IWI was suspended and bans were handed down months ago only to be reversed against the advice of Team Security.
3. Now RMT has been verified along with EULA violations when one of IWI bankers went off to start another gambling site.
4. The problems Valve is having with online gambling sites (these are RMTers by the way in case you all have missed it)...legal problems that could, worst case scenario, lead to suspension of Valve operations.
Holy ****, how much more do you need to see that these sites are a problem?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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AnEpicDrop
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:40:46 -
[275] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:It is not knee-jerk.
1. The put up with Somer Blink and that nonsense.
2. IWI was suspended and bans were handed down months ago only to be reversed against the advice of Team Security.
3. Now RMT has been verified along with EULA violations when one of IWI bankers went off to start another gambling site.
4. The problems Valve is having with online gambling sites (these are RMTers by the way in case you all have missed it)...legal problems that could, worst case scenario, lead to suspension of Valve operations.
Holy ****, how much more do you need to see that these sites are a problem? No one's gonna be convinced by reading these forums. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:42:14 -
[276] - Quote
AnEpicDrop wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:It is not knee-jerk.
1. The put up with Somer Blink and that nonsense.
2. IWI was suspended and bans were handed down months ago only to be reversed against the advice of Team Security.
3. Now RMT has been verified along with EULA violations when one of IWI bankers went off to start another gambling site.
4. The problems Valve is having with online gambling sites (these are RMTers by the way in case you all have missed it)...legal problems that could, worst case scenario, lead to suspension of Valve operations.
Holy ****, how much more do you need to see that these sites are a problem? No one's gonna be convinced by reading these forums.
Maybe if IWI killed their cat....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Vicata Heth
Bank Of E
112
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:44:20 -
[277] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would be pretty easy to figure out if CCP mentioned anything about this and whether or not it played a part in the new EULA changes in this dev blog. But they didn't. Wonder why?
Why should they? Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case. It is not knee-jerk. 1. The put up with Somer Blink and that nonsense. 2. IWI was suspended and bans were handed down months ago only to be reversed against the advice of Team Security. 3. Now RMT has been verified along with EULA violations when one of IWI bankers went off to start another gambling site. 4. The problems Valve is having with online gambling sites (these are RMTers by the way in case you all have missed it)...legal problems that could, worst case scenario, lead to suspension of Valve operations. Holy ****, how much more do you need to see that these sites are a problem?
CCP has given quite a substantial indication that it had to do with RMT specifically, and not a single indication that it had to do with potential legal troubles. I fail to see where you're making these correlations. Unless you're a lawyer who practices in this specific field, you'll have to understand if I don't take your internet space lawyer opinion at face value. |
Marsha Mallow
2945
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:47:49 -
[278] - Quote
EVE-Bet Bam wrote:WTS: Low SP toon mostly sat in Jita for SP farming and corp contracting.
WTB: A level 4 mission or Incursion alt or anything that will make ISK. Oh god please someone help me. I have 17m, can I help?
Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:
Sweets > U can dd my face any day
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:50:20 -
[279] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would be pretty easy to figure out if CCP mentioned anything about this and whether or not it played a part in the new EULA changes in this dev blog. But they didn't. Wonder why?
Why should they? Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case. It is not knee-jerk. 1. The put up with Somer Blink and that nonsense. 2. IWI was suspended and bans were handed down months ago only to be reversed against the advice of Team Security. 3. Now RMT has been verified along with EULA violations when one of IWI bankers went off to start another gambling site. 4. The problems Valve is having with online gambling sites (these are RMTers by the way in case you all have missed it)...legal problems that could, worst case scenario, lead to suspension of Valve operations. Holy ****, how much more do you need to see that these sites are a problem? CCP has given quite a substantial indication that it had to do with RMT specifically, and not a single indication that it had to do with potential legal troubles. I fail to see where you're making these correlations. Unless you're a lawyer who practices in this specific field, you'll have to understand if I don't take your internet space lawyer opinion at face value.
You haven't even read about Valve and Seam and their problems have you?
Nope CCP is doing just to troll you and Grath Telkin.
BTW, a reason they may not want to disclose it....don't go looking for trouble. So far CCP has not had an issue over this with State or the Federal U.S. government. Best move....keep it that way.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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AMGSiR
Care for Kids Care for Kids Empire
13
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:51:03 -
[280] - Quote
Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens.
I find it quite iron you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:52:29 -
[281] - Quote
AMGSiR wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. I find it quite iron you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI.
Guilt by association is so easy and awesome!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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FOl2TY8
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
111
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:52:32 -
[282] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case.
Now one cares about how this looks to you. |
Vicata Heth
Bank Of E
112
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:53:14 -
[283] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:You haven't even read about Valve and Seam and their problems have you? Nope CCP is doing just to troll you and Grath Telkin. BTW, a reason they may not want to disclose it....don't go looking for trouble. So far CCP has not had an issue over this with State or the Federal U.S. government. Best move....keep it that way.
Because making it clear they did something to stop people from gambling ISK because they believe it's illegal would obviously open them up for legal troubles. Solid logic. |
Vicata Heth
Bank Of E
112
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:54:19 -
[284] - Quote
FOl2TY8 wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:
Well it would look less like a knee-jerk blanket ban because of RMTers, and more like something that was necessary to protect the game from legal troubles. I know I'd be a lot less inclined to look at this in a negative light if it was made clear that this was necessary because of the new developments around cs:go, etc. From a PR perspective, it would be pretty wise of them to make it clear, if this was the case.
Now one cares about how this looks to you.
Irrelevant. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18589
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:55:47 -
[285] - Quote
Why is anyone surprised by this in the slightest?! Even I picked up enough about current affairs in-between drunken haze's to have seen this coming from several miles away.
This was a fairly obvious move.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agents
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
=]|[=
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2858
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Posted - 2016.10.12 21:59:32 -
[286] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:AMGSiR wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. I find it quite iron you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI. Guilt by association is so easy and awesome!
Says the guy who thinks its ok to ban all gambling sites on a guilt by association basis.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
410
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:00:36 -
[287] - Quote
IWI was killed for RMT. But the other was killed for "multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement."
I assume that distinction was made for a reason?
KB
Dum Spiro Spero
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:03:23 -
[288] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:AMGSiR wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. I find it quite iron you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI. Guilt by association is so easy and awesome! Says the guy who thinks its ok to ban all gambling sites on a guilt by association basis.
No, because it represents a potential threat to their business, trying to avoid that threat means they have to allocate time and resources to vetting and auditing these websites.
This was coming for quite awhile now and was obvious to those who knew about other instances of this.
Oh, and for all the "XXX gambling site never did RMT" that is what people thought about IWI and Somer Blink. It isn't like they make it obvious, they try and hide it. Does Eve Bet RMT? I don't know....and neither do you. That is the honest answer.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Vicata Heth
Bank Of E
112
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:05:16 -
[289] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: No, because it represents a potential threat to their business, trying to avoid that threat means they have to allocate time and resources to vetting and auditing these websites.
This was coming for quite awhile now and was obvious to those who knew about other instances of this.
Oh, and for all the "XXX gambling site never did RMT" that is what people thought about IWI and Somer Blink. It isn't like they make it obvious, they try and hide it. Does Eve Bet RMT? I don't know....and neither do you. That is the honest answer.
To be fair, I don't know if anyone in EVE RMTs. Ban EVE. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2550
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:05:55 -
[290] - Quote
AMGSiR wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. I find it quite ironic you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI.
Half our alliance gambled on IWI? Interesting admission, and from a Care For Kids character to boot.
And, yes, we did try to create our own gambling site. We did this strictly to generate ISK, and didn't try to cause flak by claiming that our site, failure that it was, was going to do all of this good work by sponsoring community events. That's my issue, and it's a legitimate one.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Marsha Mallow
2947
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:05:58 -
[291] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Why is anyone surprised by this in the slightest?! Even I picked up enough about current affairs in-between drunken haze's to have seen this coming from several miles away.
This was a fairly obvious move. Shush, please. The screaming from both sides is delightful.
I do feel a bit bad here for longterm sites like EOH, eve-bet and the older lottos who have a really good rep. But as soon as Somer, IWI and co started throwing that amount of ISK about and being associated with large scale RMT operations, the niche was doomed. Add to that changes in the gaming industry and CCP would be daft not to intervene.
Some clarification for Twitch streamers wrt to giveaways, and a review of selling services such as comms/forums for ISK as well as players hosting Patreon/GoFundMe links might be in order. This isn't an isolated topic.
ps. for all the gons flopping about declaring victory, bear in mind CCP waited until after you got your faces pushed in and your homes burned down before acting on this. Apparently it was so as not to affect the outcome of the war. Really I think they just enjoyed watching you squirm along with the rest of us. So flounce off on your victory chariots, back to Delve or lowsec or wherever. You still lost the north. And 25k useless scrub allies. Might be a worthwhile trade long-term.
Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:
Sweets > U can dd my face any day
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2003
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:06:58 -
[292] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Says the guy who thinks its ok to ban all gambling sites on a guilt by association basis. Guilt by association = history of EULA violations by some major participants?
If this was isolated then it would make sense, but historically it doesn't look to be. |
Ruddger
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:09:11 -
[293] - Quote
Quote:As for prohibiting gambling...online gambling is illegal in the U.S. It is illegal to use such sites and to run such sites
Everything we do in eve is a gamble. I can buy plex with real money, then gamble it on the market. Or undock in a shuttle and fly around.....
Eve by nature is a gamble, so to compare it to say online poker using real money is silly. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2550
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:09:20 -
[294] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:AMGSiR wrote:Querns wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?
Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?
I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.
In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens. I find it quite iron you and the other GSF dudebros are talking about gambling sites as if you didn't create your own gambling site only to have it fail, then went on a tirade about how much you all hated gambling sites and wanted to see them gone. Not to mention half your damn alliance gambled on IWI. Guilt by association is so easy and awesome! Says the guy who thinks its ok to ban all gambling sites on a guilt by association basis. Don't worry your pretty little head. For just 5 ISK a day, you too can aid starving community initiatives in need.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5324
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:13:38 -
[295] - Quote
Ruddger wrote:Quote:As for prohibiting gambling...online gambling is illegal in the U.S. It is illegal to use such sites and to run such sites Everything we do in eve is a gamble. I can buy plex with real money, then gamble it on the market. Or undock in a shuttle and fly around..... Eve by nature is a gamble, so to compare it to say online poker using real money is silly.
So long as it is an in-game item it has no RL value and thus is not gambling.
The problem is when it becomes RMT.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
7
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:18:27 -
[296] - Quote
Toobo wrote:But again, I stress the point, surely not EVERYONE in the whole process of IWI committed, unless CCP has evidences proving that ALL of them did. I trust some of the bankers I got to know decently through the community, but obviously I cannot say for a fact they RMT or not.
It would the owner's responsibility to prevent RMT. You gave your money for foreings, who are criminals. They got sentenced, their belongings got taken. This is CCP's gaming area. No matter how this thing would work in outside of the game, there this happened. Next time everybody will think twice, who they give their money. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5325
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:21:20 -
[297] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: No, because it represents a potential threat to their business, trying to avoid that threat means they have to allocate time and resources to vetting and auditing these websites.
This was coming for quite awhile now and was obvious to those who knew about other instances of this.
Oh, and for all the "XXX gambling site never did RMT" that is what people thought about IWI and Somer Blink. It isn't like they make it obvious, they try and hide it. Does Eve Bet RMT? I don't know....and neither do you. That is the honest answer.
To be fair, I don't know if anyone in EVE RMTs. Ban EVE.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Lyra Everstar
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2016.10.12 22:24:07 -
[298] - Quote
The one good thing about this change is it bans isk doublers. |
Kaoraku Shayiskhun
The 1st Regiment Brotherhood of Spacers
7
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:26:09 -
[299] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Ruddger wrote:Quote:As for prohibiting gambling...online gambling is illegal in the U.S. It is illegal to use such sites and to run such sites Everything we do in eve is a gamble. I can buy plex with real money, then gamble it on the market. Or undock in a shuttle and fly around..... Eve by nature is a gamble, so to compare it to say online poker using real money is silly. So long as it is an in-game item it has no RL value and thus is not gambling. The problem is when it becomes RMT.
I think people refered to this article |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1314
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:26:16 -
[300] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:EVE-Bet Bam wrote:WTS: Low SP toon mostly sat in Jita for SP farming and corp contracting.
WTB: A level 4 mission or Incursion alt or anything that will make ISK. Oh god please someone help me. I have 17m, can I help?
I'll trade you for my catalyst bpo.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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